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Interesting Article About Cheating In Games....The One Time I Wish UO Was More Like WoW

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Captn Norrington, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    I found this article while randomly searching news stories on the internet today. Never thought I would say this but.... I wish UO would act more like World Of Warcraft.

    Blizzard Vows to Protect World of Warcraft From Cheating


    "Most game companies take a hard stance against cheating in online games such as World of Warcraft, often putting protections in place to prevent unauthorized software from being used while playing and even banning players who don’t play by the rules. This hasn’t stopped programmers from making bots and other software designed to circumvent the rules and give players some sort of advantage, however.
    World of Warcraft creator Blizzard Entertainment isn’t willing to just let this happen, though. Vowing to “aggressively defend” its games, the company has filed a lawsuit against the creator of bots for its games and has even taken some questionable actions to better guard against those bots.

    On November 11, Blizzard filed a lawsuit against a German company called Bossland that makes and sells bots for WoW, Diablo III, and Heroes of the Storm. Blizzard claims that not only do the bots cause harm to the company, by giving users an unfair advantage over other players, but that the bots actually infringe on Blizzard’s copyrights by “reproducing, adapting, distributing, and/or authorizing others to reproduce, adapt, and distribute copyrighted elements of the Blizzard Games without authorization.” The lawsuit targets programmer James “Apoc” Enright and other unnamed defendants, instead of going after Bossland directly.

    In response, Bossland CEO Zwetan Letschew alleges that Blizzard has gone too far. Blizzard supposedly made a deal with Enright, with the terms of the deal including Enright turning over the source code for the Heroes of the Storm bot known as StormBuddy. As the bot is the property of Bossland, however, he claims that the source code was not Enright’s to give and that Blizzard “acted in a manner as shady as possible for a multi-billion-dollar corporation” to get its hands on his company’s intellectual property. Bossland has since removed StormBuddy from its store and halted further development, though other “Buddy” bots remain available for World of Warcraft and Diablo III.

    This isn’t the first time that Blizzard and Bossland have been to court; Blizzard has sued the company before in its home country of Germany and won. This makes it seem a bit strange that the company named Enright specifically and not Bossland, since Blizzard obviously knew who the “Buddy” bots belonged to. This lends at least some credence to Bossland’s insinuation that Blizzard targeted Enright specifically to get the source code, since he is not an executive or shareholder at Bossland and was described by Letschew as being just a “random freelancer.”

    Given Blizzard’s claims, its history with Bossland and the fact that it can fall back on a study from 2009, which suggested that games like WoW are legitimately harmed by bots, it’s likely that this lawsuit will end up another win for Blizzard. A threatened countersuit by Bossland likely won’t be successful, though it’s suggested that the suit will simply be an attempt to find out the exact terms of Blizzard’s deal with Enright anyway. Regardless, the suit shows that Blizzard isn’t afraid to take any steps it deems necessary to try and curb the use of bots in its games."
     
  2. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Yep, gotta admit, Blizzard does go after cheaters. It's not quick, but eventually they nab the most prolific cheaters. Plus if your account get's hacked and all your stuff stolen/destroyed, Blizzard will restore it.
     
  3. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Crap, double post.
     
    #2 PlayerSkillFTW, Nov 23, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
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  4. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Its sad and we all know its happening in UO everyday... now they cant dupe gold checks ...seems tokens have gone half price all of a sudden !!!!...I guess its all down to subscription numbers to be fair .. wether its worth it or not... think theres a vast difference to WOW and UO subs............ so WOW can put more time into it with a special paid team to sort the cheaters out - there sole job .... UO simply cant afford to do this never mind lose the paying cheaters too
     
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  5. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    WoW's subscription numbers are plummeting pretty fast (although still in the millions). Hell, Activision recently announced that this quarter is going to be the last quarter they even announce the subscription numbers.
    While Blizzard may be fairly good on handling the cheating and stuff, their development team sure does do a lot of "circle jerking" the players around, deliberately over buffing or over nerfing classes/specs just to get people to switch playing classes/specs in order to increase the artificial lifespan of content.
     
  6. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Why do you say that gold checks can not be duped?
     
  7. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    Yeah, I'd have thought the dupers would have had the sense to keep back enough cheques to keep in business.
     
  8. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    The thing is, all of the people that cheat have SEVERAL accounts. Losing one doesn't hurt them all that much, although it's less $$$ in UO's pocket.

    I do wish UO was more active in policing it though. I was pvp'ing on LS last night, and the guys I was fighting? The INSTANT I appeared on their screen, I had 3 or 4 aggro on me, but they didn't attack, cast spells, etc. They all claimed that it was EC (which it wasn't, I asked someone that uses it) and that scripts were legal (which, last I checked, they aren't.) They continuously denied that they cheat at all, and even said I was the one doing the cheating.
     
  9. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Were they multiboxing? I'm willing to bet they were... and that just takes a lot of scripts and it don't matter what client they are using... that's all done 3rd party. They do it at EM events and they do it in PvP.

    However I personally think that if you have to do all that cheating to get whatever it is... (though they probably don't see it as cheating since the DEVs have NEVER said Multiboxing is illegal as far as I know).... anyway if you have to run 4 clients as one to "win" at UO... then well you don't know how to play the game.... all you know is how to exploit. And that don't matter what client they're using it's still lame.
     
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  10. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    A major class overhaul just comes with a new expansion. In that case there is tons of new contant anyways.
    During an expansion there are just minor balancing tweaks.
    And even if you want to change your spec, it is just the press of a button. You don't even have to farm new gear if you don't change your combat role (DD, tank, heal).
    How that is supposed to increase the artificial lifespan of content, is beyond me...
     
  11. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    Not multiboxing. It's a script that instantly targets any non-friendly player or monster as soon as they're visible on screen. They use the old-school trapped box script too.

    The best part was their excuse: "It's a continuous macro in EC, so we don't even have to call targets in vent" - I headdesked at that one. Of course they don't have to call targets, they all automatically/instantly target whoever comes on screen! They don't use EC either; I've seen both the CC & EC in action, and a few of them don't move like they have the EC.
     
  12. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Well Said Captain Norrington.

    cheating will cut UOs life off by probably around 5 years. We all know who does it, what guilds, what players. And personally you cant blame them, why not cash in if theres no enforcement? even the EC design allows for automated features to such a degree that it competes with the average bot program for things such as scripting / housplacement / pvp. When a company functions like this, you cant really blame players for taking advantage. why would they care if it means UOs lifespan is significantly shorter because of it. Too bad EA is hemorrhaging money to such a degree because of the codes issues that any money left for legal action probably just isnt there. I myself would donate a good deal to fund similar lawsuits against the biggest bot / multibox producers out there.

    If theres any hope for UO (which at this point i doubt there is) we need basic anti-cheat programs. (programs which never made it in when they were proposed due to irrational and over reactive UOhallers i may add) Right now steam is a pipe dream, with such a weak stance on cheating the game would be laughable to most users.

    But blizzard is right, in the end botting/multiboxing/cheating/scripting hurts players and hurts subscription numbers. No idea how UO has never realized this. for every 1 cheater account, theres many more legitimate players that quit the game because of the situations cheating causes.
     
  13. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Oh I don't think it's the EC so much as people have been cheating in UO since WAY back.... how long have certain websites been out there? I'm willing to bet it's nearly the 18 years UO has and they have not stopped them... It may seem like it will hurt player numbers at first because you are banning folk for it..... but I think in the end you'd gain more players because there would be less quitting after getting fed up trying to compete with the cheaters.... and you might even bring some back.... since I myself know dozens of folk who quit because they got tired of not being able to compete with the cheaters.... and after you ban a few of the worst offenders...... those who are cheating because "everyone else does it".... will not want to risk getting banned and will fall in line.

    But lets face it the chances of them doing anything about it are slim to none.
     
  14. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    @MalagAste i realize your a proponent of the EC, however it does making cheating much easier. basically eliminates the need for a third party program at all in alot of cases by just putting in an infinite lua script as an EC macro. Just because a person enjoys most features of the EC doesnt mean theres not ones there that shouldnt be, ones that are just too automated and easily abused.
     
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  15. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Again that was me last night. It is not a script and I will gladly live stream to prove it is not..if you need help setting it up I will gladly help just PM me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    It's not in EC I do it. It's classic client and it's one button to target/attack

    I was actually guard whacked using it because you had his and I had to reflag.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Extremely easy! Just fix the art and I'll convert


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    You're on LS? In nwa? I'm sorry to hear that.
     
  19. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I don't care what guild I play in. I could play wherever I want. But decide to play with friends. Not based on their pvp talents in a game, jumping off topic..again I could show you how naive you are by just assuming I'm "scripting". If anything scripts are useless in PvP all the scripts I use are in PvM..oops cats out the bag! Farrrr more scripting in PvM then there ever has been in PvP. Now processor speeders...that's a different story.


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  20. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Yes I do support the EC... But the CC has just as many faults... and with modern keyboards and other things that are 100% LEGAL like the G-13 Keypad, the Nostromo N52 and many other devices out there anyone can put anything on an infinite loop and it doesn't take that much effort.... what you CAN'T do with those however is tell your character to follow this path, dig here for X digs follow that path..... or target and follow an animal about to tame it.... these are things that require illegal 3rd party programs or other things to run.

    Years ago folk would hold their keyboard button down with a penny wedged in their keyboard or a heavy rock or whatever on the key... but then some genius found he could write scripts and such and then decided to share....
     
  21. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Cheating has nothing to do with EC or CC in particular. Cheaters are going to find exploits and ways to cheat no matter platform they're using. There is no need to feign a CC vs. EC debate here. The reality is that this game is old enough that the original coding used is well understood by even moderate level programmers to be able to come up with comprehensive scripts and other virtually undetectable ways to cheat. There is no way around it.

    Between the number of subscriptions and revenue each game generates, there is simply no real way to compare Blizzard's situation with WoW to what is happening to Ultima Online. It is a very interesting article, but should be taken with a grain of salt when comparing to UO. Between the smaller budget that UO has and being in a much mature phase of the game's life cycle, I don't see anyway that current cheating can be effectively policed that also wouldn't end up cannibalizing some honest players too.
     
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  22. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    Oh, I know they're in pvm - I've used them too. I even got pulled into the afk macroing area for it, although I wasn't afk.

    To be perfectly honest, I don't care if they script or not. It doesn't help them. But I have my doubts about it being an EC setting. If it IS, in fact, possible to do it automatically in the EC, I'll shut up. But, having used a script that auto-targets any gray/red/orange player or monster, I do know that it happens instantly. I also know that "It's the EC" is a popular excuse...which doesn't work when the player doesn't move like they have the EC - I've played against people who use the CC, as well as the EC, and it's easy to tell the difference in movement speed.

    I have "get nearest target" set to mouse wheel up, with last target on mouse wheel down. Granted, it is possible (albeit difficult) for me to instantly get the nearest target as soon as I see them, provided I keep moving the mouse wheel while running. But that is not the same as being able to get someone set as last target the moment they appear on your screen, whether from running into view, or from becoming visible after being hidden. If I want to target someone that pops out of hiding, it takes about a second for me to get them set. When it happens in under .25 seconds, I highly doubt "it's a macro" can be used as a defense, especially when 3-4 people (some of which are known CC users) all do it at once.
     
  23. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    May I please see the data you used to arrive at this definitive conclusion? I ask because it seems arbitrary and made up to support your assorted hypothesis'.
     
  24. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    its what ive been told by multiple people who do it. i see no reason for them to lie. if your really interested id suggesting posting a thread asking about how to set up EC macros, because its not game illegal (unless unattended) im sure youll get someone willing to help or explain it better to you. personally i was never interested, plus dont play EC so have no "hard data"
     
  25. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
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    EC or CC doesnt matter at this point. Both can be used to exploit certain areas of the game.

    Cheating is a hard subject to tackle for UO. On one hand there are people that flat out wouldnt play the game if they couldnt use certain programs to help them play. On the other hand there are people that wont play because of people cheating.

    I feel that if The UO staff could build certain things into the Current clients there would be no need for certain players to "cheat" From what i understand most of the "cheating" these days is only because certain programs make UO's game play much more friendly. I would even go so far to say that the UO staff have failed so bad at making the game easy to play that cheating is almost a necessity to do certain things.

    Then you have your "real cheaters" the guys that are making real cash by using exploits in the game, duping etc... These are the people that I believe UO should be targeting. Just look at char trans tokens on ATL. These are the people that are directly costing EA/UO/Origin/Broadsword money. Yet the UO staff does nothing. We all know who they are, yet the UO staff has failed to do anything for a month now.


    In my personal opinion. I dont feel that afk macroing skills in your house should be punishable. I Do feel that Taking money away from the game should be punishable. However with that said certain websites have been up for years and nothing has been done. Perhaps the UO staff is making back end money off the deal... Perhaps its not worth the legal fees to take them down... Perhaps they arent actually doing anything illegal? For some reason the "real Cheaters" of UO have been able to continue on with very limited repercussions. We can debate the topic all we want, but UO's staff is the ultimate say and from what i can tell they are going to dodge every question about it. They have avoided it for UOs entire existence and it seems they will continue to do so.
     
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  26. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    I'm not sure you understand what I was asking. You made the statement, "...for every 1 cheater account, theres[SIC] many more legitimate players that quit the game because of the situations cheating causes." And I am asking you if you did some substantial polling or used some sort of data-mining to arrive at this conclusion. Or was it simply pulled out of thin air to support your agenda?
     
  27. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I mean the argument is irrelevant..I know exactly what I'm using to pull and attack a target. It's not very confusing at all. If for some reason you can't seem to target/attack in literally one button...you should work on ironing out those macro issues. I saw you clicked F1 then began chasing all the way to the stables as you used your script to teleport in...so whack you can cast teleport based on location and it gets you away!! Gosh UO just isn't fair!


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  28. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    and everyone thought i was crazy. yeah, it turned out not to be duping but just as bad (worse really) and we all know the the guild and players behind it. so what are tokens like 30m now? really hate when im right.

    New round of duping? - warning to players
     
    #27 Smoot, Nov 23, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  29. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    Bingo. I use S***M when pvp'ing, and I have macros set for chugging, apples, dismount/remount, targeting, etc. If it didn't exist, I'd probably stop playing. While I'm sure the EC does all of that (though I don't know how, since I never use it), I just can't get used to how god-awful the graphics are. I just go to the EC if I can't find something in my pack.

    I have no issues with my macros, but thanks for your concern. And the snark.
     
  30. King Greg

    King Greg Seasoned Veteran

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    One locked thread wasn't enough? You were sure it was your arch nemesis, you were sure it was duping, now your sure its something else and that its still the same players.


    Blizzard Going after Bot companies that charge subscription fees to use their 3rd Party Programs, is hardly comparable to uo's Situation.
     
  31. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Erm the whole point of the new monetry system was to stop dupers duping 1m checks by the billions...and im guessing the fact u cant put a check in the bank anymore means the dupe was something to do with the bank...and no mearly having gold check in the pack....OR ...if duping was done while shard travel... well guess what wise guy... checks are shard bound now...so cannot travel and thus cannot be duped

    so yes im pretty sure gold checks can no longer be duped....

    thankyou for your wise interest anyways.
     
  32. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    aye theve already dipped to 30m or just under....im guessing too theve turned to token dupe now gold checks are no longer dupeable
     
  33. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Negative, the whole point of the change was not to stop dupers. You think so because you are obsessed with the topic. Second, you are obviously not educated on how duping works, period. I will explain it in its most broadest terms. If you have the ability to have checks in your pack (Which you still do), then they can be duped. So, wise guy, thank you for your not so wise interest.
     
  34. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Why would I dupe a 1mil check when I can dupe slithers and Mythic tokens


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  35. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    I haven't a clue, I have never duped anything. But it wouldn't be hard to guess that they are not doing individual checks but rather bags/pouches full of them. In fact my nephew ran into to a person doing it many moons ago and according to him it is done this way.
     
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  36. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Did the new publish completely eliminate duping? Doubtful. Did it maybe help a little bit by taking most checks out of the game and making them shard bound? Probably helped some, but in all likelihood, someone will continue to find ways to exploit.

    Duping is only one part of cheating. I think the point of this discussion was the broader affect of cheating on MMOs and other online games via the use of third party apps, not necessarily whether or not specific items are still capable of being duped or not. Until Ultima and Broadsword can generate a bigger budget to have more staff capable of enforcing rules or coming up with a way to detect these illegal third party apps, there is really not all that much that the rest of us can do. I wish that weren't the case, but there isn't much point in wasting your collective breath over the minor aspects of duping or other [INSERT ISSUE HERE] problems that have no solution in sight.
     
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  37. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    true iam not educated in how duping is acheived BUT iam educated in the fact the new monetry system was brought in to stop the dupers duping billions of checks... many many billions if not trillions have been deleted by devs [ fact period]...or maybe u can just ask one of the devs seeing as my obssesion seems to glaze your own opinion??
     
  38. Lord Arm

    Lord Arm Seasoned Veteran

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    if everyone demanded something to be done, the devs may do something. enforcement would need to be done and the community would need to report and back up devs. of coarse this wont happen.

    side note: at a couple events lately, some have been using the chat crash script when boss appears. it was noticed by quite afew people. anyone see this? em did but not sure what happened. this has been used for many years for pvp. I wont go into it but it makes people crash. many use speeders too, they turn up when boss appears. I feel like I'm one of the few left that doesn't cheat. so many people I know have quit because of cheating, not because of game content and these were longtime vets that would of stayed until game ends. you are right nothing will be done.
     
  39. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    You are not alone. And you are right there are 100's of players that have quit UO because of the blatant cheaters and nothing getting done.
     
  40. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    You are the one making the claim, that it was brought in solely to end duping. How about you show some facts that support your claim.....
     
  41. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    How lame..... as pvp'ers would say ... ''good dodge !!''....[ whatever man ] .... i aint replying again to you....like i say '' good dodge''
     
  42. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I believe it's "nice dodge"


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  43. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    So lets get this straight. You make a wild claim and I call you on it. You refuse to show proof of any kind and tell me to go research your claim. Ok, I did the research, I found nothing stated that the new monetary system was put into production only to curb duping.

    Admitting you are wrong is hard for some people, I understand. Take care.
     
  44. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Nice Dodge then....nice dodge...
     
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  45. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    @THP So your plan is to ignore the issue rather than admit you have no proof of your claim?
     
  46. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    it is part 1....to be followed up by the removal of all checks in the game....to be followed by EA selling gold on UO store.....Strike 1 the global bank account,,,the rest is to follow. Mind you How many times have we seen this before, they start down a road then change their mind. No they will not publish we are doing this to hurt/harm website X or company Y....of course not!
     
  47. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    Third party programs are NOT illegal in UO...... unattended scripting is a violation of the code of conduct. Third party programs are the reason UO still exists for Christ sakes!
    For someone with supposedly 30 accounts you really think you would bother to learn the rules.
     
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  48. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Someone spotted the elephant in the room!

    I mean the game is very basic for any vet, I still don't understand why there's such confusion for all these things. I'm sure Mesanna doesn't technically "like" 3rd party programs per say. Hell how can she fight it? The EC Macro system alone "is" a third party app. If you have at least a bit of wit and tech savvy. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Hence why they made the EC so click and look away.


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  49. funkymonkey

    funkymonkey Lore Keeper
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    Thank god @TimberWolf has pointed out the obvious.

    People need to start to look at the bigger picture.
    For the 100's that have quit vs the 1000's of players over the years that have stayed and played because of people scriptin and producing resources and skill training has kept UO going .

    That's not to say we should be parsing them for doing so but it has taken the tedious boring skill training to least a acceptable level.

    With UO it digs deeper than people cheating it's always been down to poor coding lack of advertising and shocking communication.

    I would say that 80% of exploits and cheat is down to poor testing of patches and how quick it takes the Dev team to fix it .


    UO is so old that what people did 10 years ago or even 2 years ago would have changed and force them to move on.

    This whole debate is pointless as the pvp one.
    people are so set on there point they wont accept anything else and its impossible to change it and for them it's black and white and not grey as it really is .

    I for one don't care what people do in a game esp with the Dev team set on ignoring the fundamental basics of running a business.
     
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  50. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    Elephant???...wait a minute?? did someone just comment on my weight?

    :drama:
     
  51. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I can't afford any more forum suspensions! Let's not start the whole telephone system here..next thing you know I'll be falsely documented stating you're Dire Wolf mom cheated on your dad with a TimberWolf and secretly named you that due to her promiscuous ways to remind her of that night of lust with you're apparent strong armed TimberWolf Sr. Dad :/


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