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Interesting Interview with Devs. Hints of classic server?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by JoO, Aug 18, 2009.

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  1. JoO

    JoO Seasoned Veteran
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    http://gamesblog.ugo.com/games/ultima-online-12-years-down-12-years-to-go


    The most notable part of the interview to me.


    UO was like the Wild West in its early days, everything seemed fairplay and you took your life in your hands when you left town; does that still exist in today's UO?


    Calvin: That's something we're going to try to do in two pieces. We're going to have an announcement after this launch about another piece that will turn UO back into the Wild, Wild West that everyone wants.
     
  2. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    And no, what follows has nothing to do with anything in your quote it is other parts. A classic (ha ha ha depends on the definition now doesn't it) server(s) would be great.

    Well ... I will just go ahead and say it, "Calvin is seriously delusional and even more out of touch with his well ... gee lets just go ahead and say it "Care Bear" subscribers".

    *Shakes head* Just another .... passing through, to live through.


    Lets just get it on the table

    What a mind set towards the majority of the subscribers. :)

    *shrug* I guess he doesn't know MMORPG history as he is certainly bound to repeat it. He is going to need to learn rule one: "The players are infinitely more creative than he will ever be able to imagine".
     
  3. Nok

    Nok Lore Master
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    Thanks JoO.
     
  4. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Places where "Care Bears" have to travel.. take that, trammies!
     
  5. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah he certainly did show all the Trammies exactly what they are to him, now didn't he :thumbsup:

    Calvin translated:
    "Basically, the majority of subscribers of UO are total ... something, that do NOT have a clue what they REALLY want to play so I WILL FORCE THEM TO PLAY IT."

    Have your field day ..... *Shakes Head*
     
  6. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Nice to know Calvin is a pro-Siege person.. too bad he won't step up and help Siege out.
     
  7. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    What? He apparently is going to turn Trammel into Felluca as he makes it clear the "Care Bears" are clueless as to what they really want to be playing.
     
  8. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Still reading it, but something that jumped out was how they completely sidestepped how many people are playing, with an answer about how there are new players, and vets playing at the same time.
     
  9. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    That is totally awesome. Wait....


    There, I fixed it for him.


    Soo funny. PvP switch or mandatory factions is my guess. Either way it's going to be a helluva ride to see both sides scramble.

    Hey. I wonder what kind of statement EA Mythic could make that would bring back a lot of old players in the hopes of the UO of old? LOLZ....sale$men are teh funny.
     
  10. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Yeah that struck me too.. it would seem to be a bragging point.
     
  11. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Yah I noticed that and some lame distraction about 4,nnn,nnn account numbers (free accounts counted in there as well as 15 day free trial account) for 11+ years.
     
  12. Torin Galka

    Torin Galka Guest

    Great interview. Calvin should run for public office, classic side step right here...


    How many people are currently playing UO?

    Calvin: The numbers for a game this age would probably surprise you. Over those millions of subscribers we've had, everyone has an account number. There might be account number 4,297,000 out there that logged on yesterday, but we also have player 326, which means that as soon as UO came out, week one, day three, he or she was playing the game. We have those folks that are coming back to the game.

    We have new players coming in, we have players returning. It's a constant churn and from what I've seen we have good retention and that's due to the dedication that we've had from Mythic and the team.
     
  13. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Well with at least 4,297,000 accounts.. that's at least $43 million. A pretty good investment at over $3.5 mil a year (most years requiring minimal service). A more realistic figure is probably $80 million, assuming people played for 2 months.

    Not counting expansion purchases, etc.
     
  14. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    "We have new players coming in, we have players returning. It's a constant churn and from what I've seen we have good retention and that's due to the dedication that we've had from Mythic and the team."

    It takes a certain chutzpah to use the terms "constant churn" and "good retention" in the same sentence :)

    As for throwing fuel on the "Care Bear" flamewar ... well, a very poor choice of words in my opinion, but I can see from the interview that he wanted to throw a nugget of hype to each player archetype so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he just got a little carried away in his answer.

    We're all friends here, right?
     
  15. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    This doesn't sound like a classic server at all. Perhaps it will be a new PVP oriented server or they will retool the Siege Perilous ruleset. Or maybe they will be revamping Felucca and greatly expanding Factions.

    Also, they've made it clear that subscription numbers are not going to be released. Instead of saying "Sorry, we can't answer that", he explained that UO has had millions of subscribers over the long term. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of accounts surpassed 4 million.
     
  16. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Actually, there seems to be quite a lot of sidestepping going on in that interview.
    For example, their answer for "what was learned" is pretty weak. It doesn't really cover any of the social or mechanical lessons that they'll have learned over the years, when if could have been used to promote things like some of the open systems, or the EM program.

    As for the "care bears" bit...
    I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. It's not a terribly diplomatic term, but it's commonly used enough to be recognisable, and a fairly succinct definition. The alternative would be a less catchy description "non-PvPing" or something with more syllables.
    Besides, Care Bear isn't terribly offensive. Care bears are full of happiness, and love.
    Sidetracked!
    What I'd take from it is that they're learning some things from the RvR lakes in WAR, and bringing those lessons back to UO. Not to agree with the spirit of open PvP, but an element of PvP can bring people together. And, it adds an interesting dynamic to gameplay, an unpredictable foe.
    There's so much more to what I'm trying to say, but I'm not about to write a lecture here.
    The short of it: I don't much like PvP, but PvP can be an exciting, unpredictable game dynamic.
     
  17. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    It isn't the Care Bears, Heck he could have pulled a fast one and caught a lot of people off guard, "The Townies" "The BlueBees" there are a dozen+ names for both sides.

    It is the mentality that We know what the majority of the subscribers want and that is to be FORCED into PvP. That is going to haunt him.
     
  18. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    How about you wait for the announcement before you begin the backlash?
     
  19. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    Some lessons must be learned twice it would seem lol. While I am all for FFA PvP and full loot, I've come to understand that I will never see it on a successful MMO. DFO was my latest atempt to find that old FFA PvP Full loot thrill. Sadly it to is going the way of the Dodo. Forcing people that don't want to PvP into PvP situations has had the same results time and time again. They simply leave.

    We shall have to wait and see whats up though.

    Really do wish he hadn't side stepped the subs question.
     
  20. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Eve Online has 350,000 subscribers and counting. It has full loot FFA PVP. Even in PvM when you die you can lose everything. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as it is fun and done right then people will play it.
     
  21. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    I should have said Fantasy specifically lol. I tried EvE, just not into the whole spaceship thing. Kinda looking forward to Dust (Console FPS that will actually tie into EvE) though, sounds like it may be neat.
     
  22. Amber Moon

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    Rule #1 for making games.... You cannot force people to do anything because they always have option #2, avoid the things they don't like. When option #2 doesn't exist within the game, they chose option #3.. the door which is a foolproof avoidance mechanism.

    This is a lesson you see development team after development team fail to understand. Sometimes the decisions don't chase enough people off that the game can continue to operate profitably. Other times.. well lets hope this doesn't go there...
     
  23. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    *Shrug* Wait is all anyone can do isnt it .....

    Preceeding the quote I placed in my first reply, is the implication that PvP is going to be UO, then comes the part I quoted, were with great glee, he pats himself on the back for the First Step of FORCING people in SA to travel through PvP zones.

    Now it was suggested he was coning as many people on both sides of the fence as he could.

    Perhaps but what would seem clear is that either it is that or some number of NON PvP people are going to need to deal with his perception that HE KNOWS BEST what game they want to play. Even though they have voted already once within UO and external to UO they have voted MANY TIMES the same way.

    In the end it doesn't really matter it is all just words, and we shall need to watch the ACTIONS .....

    What he said :thumbsup:
     
  24. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    Yeah thats my main concern. The "Care Bears" (as Calvin put it) out number the PvP'rs by a rather large margain in UO now days. Hopefuly what ever there planning doesn't make option #3 the most appealing to them :( . Would hate to see this end up a ghost town.
     
  25. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    PvP is like the monster under the bed.

    Right now, it's hidden under the bed, in Felucca. You can't see it, without seeking it out, but you're entirely certain that it's going to do unspeakable things with your ankles if you let it.
    With simply the example of the PvP area in SA, it's going to bring PvP out into the light. Accessible, and observable, without having to go well out of your way to seek out the nargle that resides down there. Just look out the window, so to speak.

    Let's put it this way.
    WAR has taught them that PvP is not something that needs be locked in a box, away from the civilised monster cashers and such. It can exist alongside other playstyles, in a way similar to the RvR lakes, in the aforementioned.

    If the sky doesn't fall, you're going to look really stupid.
     
  26. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Look at the whole interview ... he's doing the sales pitch, trying to reach out to various different subcultures who may have left for one reason or another and could be lured back.

    Don't let normal culture-clash anxiety make a mountain out of one soundbite. I think we can safely assume that in his position he is well, well aware of the full distribution of play styles. If we get all defensive and unwelcoming, we only make his job harder.
     
  27. Amber Moon

    Amber Moon Seasoned Veteran
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    What really does concern me is the 'in two pieces' quote.

    So they are gonna sell you the expansion then change the game in some fundamental way? Students of MMO history know of another game that did this and what the results were...
     
  28. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Is anyone representing the trammies yet? If not, GO TRAMMIES.

    If so, I'll quietly return to my blissful state of indifference. :)
     
  29. The sky may not fall but right now Cal has manage to disregard the majority of the users and say that either he or the Devs know better than the players. Hopefully the only PVP areas in SA will be the Champspawns, otherwise I am afraid you could see an exodus because door #3 is the best option. Forcing people to go through PVP areas to get to the new expansion areas is a way to kill SA as alot of players would wonder why they should buy it. They like their non pvp playstyle and would see no reason to go somewhere they are forced into a playstyle they do not like or play. I work with a guy who was around at the start of UO and left because of how it went, seeing no options if PVP was not what he was into, he left for a game where he had options. I almost have him ready to try SA but if the options are limited again he will not stay and others will leave. Comments like those make people wonder if Cal wants SA to succeed and UO to survive. Alienating a majority of your player base by basically ignoring them is not a good tactic.
     
  30. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    I hope he doesn't seriously think that people crying for pre-AoS, pre-pub-16, pre-whatever-the-heck-else-publish (pre-birth-of-Richard-Garriot-publish anyone? :p) are actually the majority.
    Sure we get lots of posts on it, but it's not like you're gonna see someone make tons of threads stating how people want them to continue making UO exactly how they're already doing it. It's a one-sided issue, no one's going to bother to take the opposing side because they've already won the issue.
     
  31. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Damn you're all chickens.. at worst you will have to run through a pvp area and end up paying insurance on your items if you're killed. at best you'll run through with no worries (or sneak through).

    You'd quit over 600 gold per item? Bok bok bok bok bok bok bok.
     
  32. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    I wanna be a rebel, too...but it is true that a majority play tram side. :-/

    As Frey mentioned, you can't alienate the major part of your customer base and hope to thrive.
     
  33. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    You honestly want trammies running past you? You realize, of course, that many trammies play with GD and dismount ABC archers?

    They'd die, sure, but it wouldn't be a very fun, straight up fight. -.-
     
  34. Amber Moon

    Amber Moon Seasoned Veteran
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    It not even a case of one way or the other.

    Playerbases self select to the game that exists, whatever playstyle it is, open pvp, RvR, PvM.. whatever. And the longer a game runs the more self selected a playbase becomes.

    People who play UO now are here mostly because they like the game the way it is.

    Sharp development turns one way or the other will drive off a portion of the playerbase. You could even flip the argument around and say he hinted they were going to ditch Fel and see what kind of reaction that would bring.

    You must as a first rule, keep your existing customers happy or they won't be existing customers for long.
     
  35. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
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    Alienating the majority of the player base is not the best way to get a new Expansion off the ground. What he fails to see, is without the "Care bears" as he calls them, this game would be in the tank. You force people/players to do something they do not want to do & Option 3 will be what a lot of players take. It could be like the AOS massive loss of players if he doesn't watch his step or words.
     
  36. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    oh wow,

    people get thier nickers in a bunch over the silliest of things.

    if anyone truelly thinks that they are gonna do anything to the tram ruleset and facets you guys need to quit searching the sky's for black helicoptors and come back to reality.

    as a old player..... probablly player number 682, i think its high time we get back to some of the roots of what fel was before tram came around.
    lets get back to the hay days.
    there was a reason UO was ground breaking, and one of those reasons was the no rules pvp.

    im kinda hoping that they bring back the bounty system.
    gahd i miss that!

    but i can well imagine, specially looking at the recent changes over the last couple months, that the upcoming change will either be Order/Chaos coming back or factions turning into Order/Chaos or something along those lines.
     
  37. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    You people amaze me.. there are a few PvP areas in SA.. you don't know where they are, etc.. yet you're complaining. Pathetic. It's one thing to whine about the upcoming "announcement" about changes, but you're all jumping on the bandwagon of hatred.. even if you know the SA PvP areas will hardly effect you at all.

    Did you seriously expect a new expansion of Trammel-only areas?
     
  38. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    Simply put........... yes many would lol. Call them w/e you like, they would. This isn't some new question posed, it's one that was asked and answered already. The subs were dwindeling, Tram came and the sub count rose by a lot, AoS hit and subs dropped again. Those that couldn't deal with the changes left years ago. Those that either liked them or could learn to live with it are whats here now playing.

    Since that question has been answered before how about a new one. Are you saying you would quit if you couldn't get there 600 gold per item? If it's yes, do realize either way you would likely have to quit because people that do not want to PvP are not going to handle being forced to very well lol.
     
  39. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    Oh god I would kill for the Bounty System again. The days of my Warlock as well lol. Had heads all over my house, was awsome. Why did they remove the ability to chop off heads anyways??? That was a nice prize after killing someone. Imho it was better than any loot I got from a kill.
     
  40. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    I'm a Siege player, so this has almost no effect on me.. but it is horrible to see Trammies so scared of being pked that they would quit the game over 600x8 (slots) rather than band together and fight through (assuming that pks decide to camp the new spots). The spirit of old pre-trammel UO was that good citizens banded together in a group to defeat the murderers. It seems a lot have given up on that, they've given up on everything. You may as well find an old Furcadia server.
     
  41. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    This part interests me a great deal gives me goose bumps and makes me feel tingly. :thumbsup:
     
  42. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    2 pvp area champ spawns. That it. Don't have to run through them to get to the abyss or any other areas of the expansion. Don't have to go into them for quests. No need to go into them except to do the spawns. Which are different than those anywhere else and will give unique replicas of some kind or another. Everything else is consensual.

    Everyone needs to take a deep breath and realize the garbage that spews from Cal as what it is. A sales pitch.
     
  43. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    lol

    "Care bears." "What everyone wants."

    Quite pathetic....And shows that I was right to fight with the Fellies on these boards as vociferously as I had...Because when I and a few others stopped doing so, the minority voices suddenly seemed like a majority and then "everyone."

    *chuckles*

    Those of you who whine about "hate" need to remember that the Fellie playstyle has historically been the only playstyle that looked down on other styles. The term "Fellie" was invented only recently; the term "Trammie" was invented, by you all, pretty much as soon as Trammel came out.

    We'll see what happens I guess....The mere fact that he was using that terminology was extremely depressing. Similar things said by a UO Producer about Felucca and we'd see what REAL hate was. How do I know this? Because it's happened. Time and again.

    We live, sadly, in an age where those willing to go to extremes carry the day.

    We'll see what happens but...I mean, honestly....Any day when the UO Producer uses those terms is sad.

    -Galen's player
     
  44. I agree compeletly. Forced PvP on a game that has more trammel players in it then I say fel/pvp players cant be a good thing. I have no problems with the champ spawns having pvp involved in it but a return back to the days where you couldnt walk out of a town guard zone without being murdered dosent sound like fun. A PvP switch or something like tht wouldnt be a bad idea either. Overall I hope they do a ton of polling its player base for making a big change for its never a good thing with the powers that be assume they know whats best for the players of the game without actually getting the players of the games opinion.
     
  45. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    Point is, if we only had PvP'rs left in the game the servers would shut down. While I enjoyed Pre-Trammel a great deal all I am doing is stating some simple facts. Fact 1) Force someone in a PvP situation when they do not want to PvP and they either avoid it or if thats not possible they leave. Fact 2) PvP'rs in UO are the minority in UO now days.

    After DFO dropped to below 10k subs (Likely well below that now) I lost the will to push for FFA PvP anymore.

    Also it's not the SA PvP areas that sparked all this, I believe its the "Two-Piece" comment. Seems SA PvP areas are just the first piece, the second won't be revealed until after you buy the expansion lol. Kind of makes people nervous.
     
  46. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I'm with Poo in thinking what we'll see is a return of the Order/Chaos system as a replacement to factions, but maybe with a twist. Perhaps PvP if you are in Order/Chaos will only be possible in Fel and all of or part of the Abyss. Maybe we'll even see the strongholds for both sides end up in the Abyss.

    If that's the case, there could be PvP all around you in the Abyss....however, if you aren't a member of either side, you'll be safe from other players (other than your ever-loving alliance mates).

    Now would something like that be bad? I don't think so. However, I'm sure some people would forget about the "ignore" option and complain about a situation like that as vehemently as they'd complain about Order/Chaos PvP surrounding them at a Trammel bank.

    I guess we'll find out.
     
  47. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    To me it's the "wild west that everyone wants" comment and the use of the term "care bears."

    -Galen's player
     
  48. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Noone is forced into PvP.. you are speaking from ignorance. A few new PvP spots in the SA expansion and you are 'riding out of your knickers'. SA is not a PvP only land.. please learn that before adding to the hatred over an expansion you know little about. A few PvP areas does not an expansion break.
     
  49. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    I will help you take that foot out of your mouth. First learn to read.

    Secondly I wouldn't mind some more PvP added back in. Simply stating facts. Again...........

    PvP'rs are the minority
    Secondly if someone that wants nothing to do witth PvP is forced into PvP situations they will likely quit if they can't avoid it.

    We have to wait and see what the second piece is, I am simply saying I hope it isn't something that makes the majority of the player base leave.

    Read it this time and then respond, may work out better for you.
     
  50. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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