Taken from another forum. You get the jist of what we're talking about. It started about that Steven Hawking show on discovery, but then got carried away with this black hole/white hole business. For those not familiar with the 'white hole theory' its basically just worm-hole theory on crack. . I forget what I was asked, but this was my response.. Behold, the universe, as Himuro Gemma depicts: haha, yeah john, i think he said 'don't slam the door on their face'. No, I don't think theres some idealistic means of time travel in regard to black holes, and yeah, this is similar to the 'white hole theory'. The difference is that the matter isn't placed someWHERE else, per se, but someTIME else. In other words, accepting the big bang, the question is 'what banged, and where did it come from?'. My theory is that 'It' came, or comes, from black holes. Again, I don't believe in time travel for 'objects' per se, but for matter and energy, if you accept that black holes exist, you should also accept that matter and energy can be moved through time. So yeah, the universe does seem to be still expanding, but what happens when it finally does collapse? Gravity demands that it will. My theory is that it all ends up back at the beginning and time literally repeats itself. You have to ask yourself at this point, 'but what if you could watch the collapse of the universe from a distance? Where and when would I be when the universe disappears through a pinhole?' Time would seem to go on in an empty universe, but then, you're forgetting that the universe in its entirety has been pulled through a pinhole into another time, you included. Space, time, matter, and energy are all gone to another time. In this universe, or lack thereof, time would stop? I think so. Everything emerges on the other side, the white-hot ball of gas and gravity where time stands still and has not begun, to start the entire process again. Like turning over an hourglass. When the last universe finally folds in and the pinhole shuts, the big bang drives the new universe on the other side of the hourglass. We know the story from here on out. So its like, okay Evan's being all weird and trying to be deep or something, but seriously, I think its an easier way to look at the universe. I've always had a hard time grasping the concepts of time and space being infinite. The way I am trying to imagine it, is that the universe does have a shape and its shape is something like an hourglass. It only expands so far before gravity pulls it back onto the other side of the glass. Time is also finite, and is also contingent on how far gravity will let it go on. Hell, it could be exact, and consistent, every single time the universe expands and subsequently collapses: Time begins with the end of the collapse of the last universe, and it ends as the next universe is born. Am I saying that history LITERALLY repeats itself exactly? In other words, the earth will be born again and again, as well as ourselves? That there has literally been an infinite number of ourselves, and there will be an infinite number of ourselves to come? Well.. I don't really care to speculate that much, but maybe this is why we get 'de ja vu'? Then again, maybe we truly are unique with each 'turning' of the hourglass. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.. So then you're like 'okay Evan, thats a really simple way of looking at it, but what do you think is beyond your hour-glass shaped universe? What exactly is it expanding into?' I think the answer here is the really difficult part that we'll always have problems understanding: Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Not space, not matter, not anti-matter, or time, but nothing at all. 'But there HAS to be SOMETHING', is the argument that comes to mind, but when you stop and think about it, don't you think its a little stranger that there IS something, rather than nothing at all?