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Irony thy name is the dev team ...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lord Bishop, Oct 5, 2008.

  1. Lord Bishop

    Lord Bishop Seasoned Veteran
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    Just after the tamer class receives the Greater dragon meat shield, the nerf stick comes out for the warrior class who actually take damage when fighting monsters. Makes you wonder who on the team is tuned into the game. (I have every type of char so don't jump on the you just a hater band wagon) I just this this move as very ironic. Now greater drags with 900+ hitpts will be the frontline and archers standing far away will plink away but warriors can either take away healing or lose vampiric embrace. Why the dislike of warriors? Warriors already need every stat in the game to preform (Str, Dex, and Int), while my disco tamer needs like 11 dex to kill with impunity. The change seems unessessary in light of what other classes can do, but why should that matter.
     
  2. Zalan

    Zalan Babbling Loonie
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    Don`t worry tamers will get hit by the nerf bat to. I just wonder when Chefs, & Bakers get their turn at the Nerf Bat.

    Eventually, everything else will get nerfed. That way later on everone has to play an over powered Gargoyle, & buy UO:SA to compete.
     
  3. There is no way I am going to make a charactor that is a Gargoyle.
     
  4. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    They nerfed plants, you are ALL doomed! DOOOOOMED!!:stretcher::eek::)
     
  5. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *chuckles*
     
  6. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I love the "I have a tamer but I hate my class" line. If you feel the class is so overpowered and in need of a nerf, delete it and make something else. The item-based sampire has been nuked, but the sky isn't falling if you check.

    Try reading the posts from Jeremy a while back and also the town hall transcript posts. There you'll see several references to a forthcoming damage balancing pass (or whatever it was called at the time) and greater dragons were mentioned specifically too. Nerfs are coming and if tamers have stepped up a rank in the damage stakes, guys like yourself will do enough complaining to bring that nerf forward very soon. So do what the rest of us do when these things happen - adapt and move on.

    So your tamer has only 11 dex? Well, not everyone runs your template or your stats. I'd be minced in Fel with those stats. Be darn good fun overloading yourself with gold with 11 stamina lol. And hey, not every tamer runs a minimal risk template or even uses greater draggies. Some even use warrior tamers. I'm about to make another of those fairly soon, once I settle on a template. Maybe if you think it's too easy you should try another template or train up a pack.

    Wenchy
     
  7. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    105 taming Bracelet 15 taming 25 DI 8 HCI
    110 lore 10/10 lore/vet ring
    110 vet 10/10 lore/vet ring
    120 fencing
    100 tactics
    68 chivalry +30 jewlery set for resing
    27 magery Crystalline ring 15 mage bracelet 12 spell book(74 invisi off scroll)
    34 necro grimoir midnight 15 necro jewelry set bloodwood
    46 focus

    919 SP!

    Tell me about it!

    105 discord 15 discord ring
    110 music 10/10 music/provoke bracelet
    110 provoke 10/10 music/provoke bracelet
    100 magery Crystalline ring
    100 eval
    95 resist +12 resist scrappers
    100 med
    0 macing 120 0 mage weapon staves

    907 skill points

    100 archery Hunters headress
    100 tactics
    100 anatomy
    100 bushido
    80 necro midnight bracers
    110 spirt speak bloodwood spirit
    100 resist resilient bracer
    30 focus crystalline ring
    0 magery crystalline ring

    830 skill points

    The rest of my chars are crafters who is some way or another work around the skill cap 45 music for instruments ash hammers more....
     
  8. Zalan

    Zalan Babbling Loonie
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    ROFL well you did do what Kelmo said ^^
     
  9. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Again, if you can drop any of the +skill items and still retain the abilities and benefits of the higher skill level, then you have a point.

    Otherwise, all you're doing 5% is proving that the devs do NOT need to raise the 700/720 point skill cap because we can effectively raise it WELL above said cap already.
     
  10. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    when i put on my chiv jewelry to res some one do they die when i take them off?
     
  11. Zalan

    Zalan Babbling Loonie
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    No they do not.
     
  12. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    No, nor should they because the act is done. You have brought them back to life.

    Conversely, if you were a Necro and used an "Animate Dead" type of spell, and then dropped skill points, yes, what has been animated should die.

    The comparisons are still inaccurate.

    You're comparing a completed event vs an ongoing event.

    Crafting and most spells are a completed event. You have to have the skill to complete the crafting or casting and for the effect to happen (which the effect has an end, once someone is ressurected, they are no longer under the ressurection spell).

    Forms are like animal control... an ONGOING event. You cast the form, but the spell is still active until you cast it again to take off the form. Since the spell is active, you have to have the skill to retain the spell. While you are in Vamp (or any other) form you are still under the effect of the form spell.
     
  13. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    so how about summones ele and magery?

    If there wasnt a skill minimun set on necro this wouldnt have come about!
     
  14. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Summoned and raised creatures should disappear if the skill level drops below the minimum ability to cast the spell. (whether they do or not, is a different story, however they SHOULD disappear if that is the case)
     
  15. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    mY bard discord at 120 skill and swaps out to a different ring should the discord end?
     
  16. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    with magery there is no minimum skill !
     
  17. Zalan

    Zalan Babbling Loonie
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    Perhaps, there should be a mana cost in order to keep a form after it has been cast.
     
  18. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Depends on if the monster you are discording's skill to discord is above the level you have when you take the ring off.

    If a monster requires 110 skill to discord and you take off a +15 ring and go down to 105 (from 120), then yes, the discord should drop.

    If a monster requires 100 skill to discord and you take off a +15 ring and go down to 105 (from 120), then no, the discord shouldn't stop.
     
  19. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    There is the minimum to cast the summon spells (unless you want to show me a screen cap of someone with 30.0 (non-modified) magery casting summoned elems and/or daemons.
     
  20. Zalan

    Zalan Babbling Loonie
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    hmn I smell a very bad troll.... or atleast 95% troll
     
  21. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    its very close to 70 I can cast with umpteen fails on my tamer but there is no actual minimum. The chances are scaled all they way to .01 as it should be with necro! Meaning that if its posible to cast at all that possibility gears the fail safe on the spell. So if we scaled necro down to .01 with 65 skill one wouldnt have the problem of losing their form.
     
  22. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    80.1% gives you a .25% chance to cast elem summons (level 8 magic). 80.2 gives .5% making the beginning cuvre .5% per 0.1 skill.

    Thus 80 and below are effectively 0% thus below minimum.

    You should require 80.1% Magery to use an elem or daemon with the special case scenario of a scroll dropping that to 60.1 (if I remember correctly) due to how they work.

    So if you +skill up to 80.1 or more, cast an elem/daemon, then drop down, yes you should lose the elem/daemon, UNLESS You use a scroll in which case the skill level is 60.1+.
     
  23. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    And the necro scroll? no benifit Yea Right what a joke!

    In my mage experiment i did use scrolls!
     
  24. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    How are the actions not checked by the server as completed events? Seriously think, is there a maintenance cost at all? No. Are you able to preform other actions while the effect is in place? Yes. For all intent the server has been checking it as a completed event.

    If they want to change the way things work simply because people whine because they don't want to do it too then I think I'll start whining that Summons in Magery should require Animal Lore to control. Is it fair that mages can summon and control creatures like pets without the same amount of skill invested as a tamer with a pet, of similar stat and abilities? What about Samurai and Lesser Hiryu? Necro's with Kitsune using a Dark Wolf? They all control pets or creatures without the skills a tamer would need to do the same....What's the difference?
     
  25. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    Yes there is. I believe it's something like this...

    Level 1 = .1
    Level 2 = .1
    Level 3 = 8.1
    Level 4 = 23.1
    Level 5 = 37.1
    Level 6 = 51.1
    Level 7 = 66.1
    Level 8 = 80.1

    Those are the required skills in Magery to have a .1% chance of success. Anything less and you have 0% chance at casting the spell.

    Of course this means any human has a chance to cast levels 1, 2, or 3 as long as they have a spellbook with the spells in it.
     
  26. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I find the OPs post to be quite humorous considering the most effective template for killing these things isnt even being affected. Simply switch up to a drag slayer wep with high LL and the problem is solved. (this is the case for most instances except peerless...only mel has a slayer.)
     
  27. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Been, Gone, Returned, and Negated.

    AoS - hunger all but disappeared (ie: chef nerf).
    ML - hunger was turned back on to normal levels.
    ML + 2 weeks - mass complaints about "having to eat" had hunger re-nerfed.
    Pub 55 - Pepta's Satiety Cure made it all moot.

    All that fuss and there isn't an actual need to eat, despite the post-ML furor. Devs have repeatedly stated it affects no other game system; not gains, not fizzles, nothing. The re-nerf was simply to shut people up and nothing's been done with the issue since, aside from Pepta's cure.
     
  28. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    There are other warrior templates.

    Playing "Sampires" still still be possible, you just need to actually have a significant amount of Necromancy.

    -Galen's player
     
  29. Lord Bishop

    Lord Bishop Seasoned Veteran
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    Wow I guess the point was missed completely. Warrior templates have very little wiggle room. All three stats are needed and 6 skills minimum whatever you personal choice maybe determines your root. To be a complete Tamer you need 3 skills, to be a bard 2-3 skills, a mage 3 skills and none of those templates requires all three stats. Each can be mixed or matched with the other skills. A bard/tamer, necro mage, bard/mage ect Also none of these classes requires you to be in direct melee combat with the enemy. I like my tamer/bard, tamer/mage, bard/mage, archer, and my melee characters. I have found Life Leech does not seem to work effectively to count on like VE, but sure I can adapt. I simply hate that Jeremy decided the sammy needed a swift kick in the ass when so much of the game is out of balance and never has a big nerf stopped creative people from moving on to the next best class. I wish the change would not occur because the nerf bat seldom works.
     
  30. gjohnson5

    gjohnson5 Guest

    It's been that way since AoS
    I guess making monsters with 1000 strength wasn't good enough

    1. Hit chance was dropped on shields like that was a make or break thing
    2. archery weapons have every item property to them now including this velocity and balanced mess
    3. Spell casting is kinda rediculous in PvM especially with necro monsters like multiple lich lords
    4. Healing takes forever and a day in the middle of a fight in comparison to the item above
    5. two handed melee weapons are (and have been) basically useless since there is no balanced two handed weapon and the damage per second is slower in most cases to kryss and kats + loss of shield item properties
    6. Parry has little effectiveness IMHO. It's simply not worth the 100 skill points
     
  31. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest

    tamers have been nerfed and nerfed more thru the years ... and also keep in mind most tamers are also mage's which also get nerfed alot.

    so finally we are seeing tamers at a more even playing field :) it is just to bad they only get one pet do even the field..
    altho i hear white wyrms are going to be better eventually :p
    i miss WW's .
    i miss more hunting with 3 of them at the same time ...
    oh wait there.... tamers got nerfed... almost forgot about stable slots and control slots nerfing the heck out of tamers.
     
  32. Lord Bishop

    Lord Bishop Seasoned Veteran
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    I assume you were kidding about taming only recently seeing a more even playing field. I hunted just about everything with a 3 slot dragon and a nightmare and since you can add peace to the template or disco its always been a dominate class in PvM. Super Drags were unessessary
     
  33. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I disagree. They were necessary. They were just unnecessary to be tamable.
     
  34. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    no but if you put on jewelery to build up your str to wear armor and take it off the armor comes off.

    this is how it should have worked from the beginning..
     
  35. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    Boy am i glad i didn't go through the trouble of making that template. I just hope with nerfs come some monster nerfs too. While you are at it how about some better loot instead of the usual junk...or are we waiting for disenchanting to come along and save that one?
     
  36. Amren

    Amren Journeyman
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    There are no classes in UO remember?
    It's an open ended system where you just train what ever skills you want.

    I thought "classes" were in lame games like WoW, but the term does not apply to UO's vastly superior skill system...
     
  37. Lord Bishop

    Lord Bishop Seasoned Veteran
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    Ok how about if your a melee template your choices do not allow much wiggle room in your template, does that satisfy your vastly superior skill system
     
  38. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    "6. Parry has little effectiveness IMHO. It's simply not worth the 100 skill points."

    To my (PvP) experience, 120.0 Parry is crap.

    Parry is designed in a way that it will save you Vs. 4-5 targets because it will block 2 or 3 out of 5 incoming hits often enough to net out an adequate reduction in damage taken within a certain time period.
    Meaning it's best-suited for PvM, in situations where you are castly outnumbered.

    Try this: Go to Jhelom Pits and attack ALL the fighters there. You will get excited and think that Parry WtFPwZ.
    Now go to Yew Gate Fel, and try to fight a single target.

    Vs. a single target it will block a single hit out of.. 10? Or so. You will actually be asking yourself WTF happened to your 120 points. The difference of how fast and how much damage you receive in PvP and how often is enough to render your Parrying useless. It's even worse than basing your Defense on Attunement because it's more random than shielding yourself 100% from the next 40ish Dmg and because the hit you will Parry might be a simple, pure shot and not a Special Move even.

    Also there's a myth that needs busting; that of Parrying working wonders Vs. Special Moves. Go out and try it, it's totally random.

    On the other hand there are SOME times when it works (IMHO) as it should and you block enough to think you will keep it just A TAD longer to make sure, but believe me in the end you'll just dump the skill like I'm doing.

    An argument I saw from Archers in the recent heated convos about Archery being OPed is that over-cap DCI and 120.0 Parry pwns Archery.

    It's not constantly being at 45% DCI *AND* Parry that will save you if it does. It's plain simple JUST the 45% DCI.
    The RNG seems to be so much more fair for the DCI chances than for the Parrying chances really, to the point where you don't NEED Parry when fighting single targets, running around and whatnot. You simply don't stand there either so there's no case of thinking "Okay I stood there, took so many hits on my shield that netted me x2 my HPs over 5 mins so Parry saved me".

    However that does not mean that all the Archery hating was uncalled for. It doesn't mean that WITH Parry you will be EVEN BETTER Vs. Archers either just because you will block 1 out of 10.
    That is not enough to justify the argument of Archery fans that you just need to adjust and get Parry AND DCI.

    So how does it NOT mean Archery hating was uncalled for? Because Archery has all the benefits of Melee but is ranged and can hit on the run just as effectively(Moving Shot hits my max Physical when wearing reward robes for 25!!!). You can even disarm someone by sacrificing a few skill points, and yes you're still an Archer even if 1 out of your 12 Attacks is a melee one to Disarm.
    In the same sense that blocking a single hit doesn't justify 120.0 Points nor is it the solution of all Archery related problems.
    Recap : Archery will hit you as much as melee, from RANGE, WHILE MOVING. For too much damage. Because Archers can just run away (while shooting too, direction doesn't matter) and need neither Parry nor DCI except to fight other Archers. That takes care of the Archery Vs Parry+DCI = Dead Archer argument. Back to topic.

    Some will argue that Bushido+Parry is the new Parry, I say CRAP. Again, the RNG is much more random than DCI's or simply too random- PERIOD.
    Also most Bushis will have 1Hand because of Pots(*HINT* Pots are OPed, especially NORMAL HEAL Pots boosted with EP instead of GHeal.. And Poisons Vs. Pots = Imba and there no solution, gotta be re-designed). And if you want numbers just go compare 120.0 Parry + Shield Vs. 120.0 Bushi/Parry + 1Hand. The difference in blocking is not impressive and in action, UNNOTICABLE.


    So go find my post where I mention I stoned 120.0 Parry, notice the date and count up to today and you'll see how much time I've been trying Parry both in PvM and PvP. Then add the months I've spent with Parry before stoning it in the first place.

    I give you no theories, just what happens in action. Whether you wanna believe it or hide behind sheets of data and Stratics links, is up to you.

    I wrote all this so that MAYBE it will add up to the momentum that's pushing people to ask for some Non-Caster Warrior love. So that MAYBE we can get some.
     
  39. Evilminion

    Evilminion Guest

    I love how every time any class takes a perceived "hit" to their play style, whether it was a good thing in terms of the game system or not, their first instinct is to snark at tamers. :lick: :loser:

    Tell you what, former sampires: I'll CHEERFULLY give up my greater dragon... on the same day that I can store as many pets as you can store weapons.

    The day I'm allowed to stash interesting and useful critters in the stable to my heart's content instead of picking just a bare few, I'll be willing to experiment with packs and combos, to see what works best for me. But since I don't really have that option, you can bet your until-recently-overpowered arses that I'm going with the single most powerful creature I can get my hands on.

    'Nuff said.
     
  40. I'll make you a deal.

    As soon as they give me a single weapon that has all of the specials that I want to use, plus is an all-in-one Demon/Undead/Repond/Reptile/Fey/Elemental/Arachnid slayer, and allows me to switch from either slow, heavy hitting mass damage, to fast, light damage, along with being able to switch elemental damage with the push of a button and not with Consecrate Weapon, AND can be used as either a one handed or 2 handed weapon, then you can have what you want.

    Sound fair?
     
  41. kinney42

    kinney42 Seasoned Veteran
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    BOOOSH!
    Suck it Tamers!
     
  42. Lord Bishop

    Lord Bishop Seasoned Veteran
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    Jeepers This is not a tamer hating attack I like my tamer char. The irony is the Dev team. They on one hand allow a class to have dragons with 900+ hp and 120 ish magery and eval breath weapon great resists, and then the next town hall meeting says another class nexts a kick in the ass. Thats ironic to me. As a tamer I can even wear a luck suit and never have to melee the monster. I have plenty of stable slots also so I'm not sure the relevance of that arguement compared to weapon storage.
     
  43. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Tamers are going to get well and truly balanced pretty darn soon if the recent complaints are anything to go by :D I mean, Jeremy said it was on the cards aready a while back, with all the bitterness lately I can see a real knee-jerk nerf hitting tamers. Greater dragons will be the first to get nuked, so don't worry about those. Any favouritism that's perceived towards tamers will soon become a joke methinks.

    As for stable slots, just because you're sorted out, doesn't mean all tamers should be stuck with 14 :) My warriors don't keep much stuff, but they have a whole house they can use for weapons if they wanted. Pity I can't donate storage to my tamers, because I'd be more than happy to make that sacrifice for it. The room is there. My main tamer is maxed out but has to restrict herself to 14 while she has a greater draggy. I hardly think that's too much. A 110 tamer is looking at 11... whoopee. We can't take them all out at once, and some of us like to stable any better pets or nice ones to rehome or train and sell. Trust me, once you get into that side of things, you rapidly run out of space.

    At the opposite end of the spectrum a player can tame and bond a pack of lesser critters, perhaps a tamer in training, yet can't stable more than 2 :D You need 161 skill points in taming skills just to stable a third pet lol. By the time said tamer can stable their 5 pack critters they're using 240+ skill points. By which time they've likely outgrown the pack they stated with! Honesty, the stable slot system is borked and then some. It always has been. We shouldn't need to train up additional tamer characters to store pets. No character has to train to store their weapons, only the tamer. And with the real tamers, they're not weapons, they're pets. Might be pixels, but I'm not dumping my 8+ yo pets for a spangly new one.

    /step off soap box :D

    Wenchy
     
  44. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    I play a tamer I enjoy playing my tamer, I don't mind the stable slot restrictions I mean that's why I have 3 tamers. I've got a friend with 6 or 7 I keep loosing count. The biggest issue I see with most tamers these days is they have gotten lazy. All I see most the time are Greater Dragons and Cu Sidhe, you know fire and forget pets for the most part. The second most common problem which is caused by the first is how many tamers there are that don't know how to play a tamer. It's not "Tame pet (A) train it and sic it on Monster (B)" that's absurd. Like for instance what's the best single pet, not pack, not combination of pets, to take to Travesty? Answer....from my experience it's the Reptalon, the damage types work out right and once trained they hit Trav HARD I commonly see 150+ damage off mine I know it's not on a Mirror image because well it's at times when there aren't any up. Want to help a buddy farm Cu Sidhe...Taming them and sending them after the other wild one's is slow when a pack of trained Frenzied Ostards can wipe one out in a matter of 2-3 seconds faster with a Discord Tamer. Mel? Cu Sidhe work well due to good cold resists vs Mel's wither though it's best to bring a friend with some other pets and let the dog tank. Dreadhorn? Rune Beetles with a Mare or Kitsune hands down is 5x better than dogs or Greater Dragons there just stand close and vet, and be ready to heal yourself casting pets are good about throwing out Arch Cures and a handful of Greater Cures will cover the rest. Tamers, well some tamers like myself look at our pets as weapons not an in game farming tool, and match up Damage types and resists on pets to what we are hunting, we take the time to find the best possible pets we can, we do research on what makes a good pet. How many of yours have you ran through the Pet Power Calculator to see how they rate? I do many of mine I try to only keep animals that will rate over 4.0 on it, I don't keep pets just because of color or because they match the clothes my toon wears I tame and use pets based on how useful they are vs types and groups of monsters. The attitude of "I'm going to run around with the single most powerful critter I can" is just one reason Taming needs to be adjusted, it shows just how imbalanced the group is if there is a 1 pet fits all attitude in play.

    Oh and I can do almost any spawn, well pretty much any monster while wearing around 2000 luck (1948 last I checked) and never have to worry about dying..how many Dexxers can put a 1900+ luck suit together and have decent resists.
     
  45. Vyrquenox

    Vyrquenox Guest

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    why? The spell has been cast, the event of CASTING the spell is complete. It is not an ongoing event, it is an ongoing result of a completed event.