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Is everything becoming overly simple?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by puni666, Jul 29, 2010.

  1. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Seems to me like every aspect of the game is becoming extremely toned down, making things that once required skill and well planned tactics a thing of the past.

    Pvming you can pair a sampire with a disco mage and take anything in the game down.

    Crafting.. lol does anyone even use the runic hammers to craft anything they're planning on using? Maybe a valorite hammer but anything else is subject to being broken apart for imbuing resources.

    Mining ore/gems/granite/etc... hello? are you there? *Player sacred journeys* off to the next unattended spot!!!

    Pvp.. Spell Plague anyone? Or better yet cross healing now a days. Before it was a rule you got your own cure so you could receive a cross heal from your team mates.(that's just one example there's many other things) Things required timing and observation of wtf's going on around you. Now you have 2 people cast cleansing winds in a party and the ENTIRE party is full life. Lots of skill and timing there.


    There's a ton more to talk about in each aspect of the game, but I don't want to rant more on everything more then I already have.

    I for one am losing interest in the simplicity of things.
     
  2. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I just sold a BUNCH of Dull Copper runics without a problem on a vendor outside of Luna. DC runics I believe are used to pull Relic Frag-based properties so that the imbuer doesn't have to use as many Frags.

    Bronze and up hammers, yeah, Relic Frag generators.

    And yes, I mine attended, strip mining with my fire beetle for while almost every day I play.

    Global Chat, while I was always more in favor of the pre-global chat style seems to be proving its worth once you get around the PvP e-peen wavers whining at each other, it's used quite well (on LS at least) to connect buyers and sellers and to inform of events about to start. Yeah that might be "simplifying" things, but really, it has helped the game IMO.
     
  3. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    The game is what you make it. I suppose if you want to take the easy road.... then go for it.

    But I prefer not to.

    I play for the RP if all your goals are based on being UBER and getting stuff then... congrats you've won.

    Perhaps you just need a change in your goals.
     
  4. jtw1984

    jtw1984 Seasoned Veteran
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    Don't forget these new pardons!

    Basically, if you gather enough whiny people in one place the developers will think that is how things should be.
     
  5. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Whether everything is becoming overly simple depends on your point of view.

    It's probably not what you meant, but in general, newbies and returning vets still have a large learning curve compared to us vets that have kept up with the incremental changes. So I don't think everything is overly simple.

    Now to address the questions you raised.

    Sammies and whammies are really good, but they are not invulnerable, it still requires a fair bit of skill to know how to play properly, such as when to activate evade, confidence, specials, pots, run away, use eoo, use curse weapon, what weapon to switch to and when NOT to use which specials/spells/weapons etc.

    It's not a simple point and click affair.

    And that's viewing this from the perspective of a scrolled out and uber geared char. Lacking scrolls and using cheap suits, my mage does much better.

    Us vets with our uber skills and eqm shouldn't become so jaded that we stop consideration for those that are still finding their ways around the game. Well, and ourselves too, if like me, you like starting new chars on new shards and training them up.

    Dbl teaming with a disco bard definitely makes things even simpler. But that's not much different from pairing 2 warriors that bandage x-heal. Or pairing 2 tamers that x-vet pets, or paired bard tamers, or paired mages, or mage + warrior pair.



    I just used a dc runic hammer last week to create weapons with base properties that I do not have/want to use the imbuing ingredients for.
    So, yeah, low end runics are still useful.



    As to ore mining, I mine mine in mines manually. I find this relaxing and satisfying. But I know what you mean and see a lot of scripters.

    This should be fixed soon with the 3 party app detection.



    As to cleansing wind, yes it throws all previous tactics out the window. But evolution is a good thing I think.

    Besides, I have always favored longer lasting battles. So depends on how you view it, it makes things more complex and not simpler as you need to devise new tactics to deal with healing wind.
     
  6. popps

    popps Always Present
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    This is the curse of item based games.....

    A number of players become overly wealthy, whatever the ways, and are capable of getting all of the top notch items which make the game for them easy and boring.

    They become, thanking to their exclusive gear, capable of soloing anything in the game, they can win most PvP fights and eventually they think the game has become too easy and boring.

    So, they ask for it to be made harder.

    Still, for a BUNCH of other players who do not have the same time at hand or, whatever the reasons, did not gather the same wealth and so are at a gross loss as in regards to top notch gear and weaponry, the game is still quite hard as it is and making it even harder which will need the introduction of stronger and more powerfull items would make it a nightmare for all of these other players.

    Basically, item based creates a game where the player base is divided, cut in two, and some players play the game on a different path than some others.

    It is like it ain't the same game but 2 different games.

    This ain't right, IMHO, and it makes it for a nightmare (or, I think, flat out impossible...) for such a game to be balanced out among players.

    I have been saying it for years now, Ultima Online has to abandon the item based path and go back to much more emphasys to skills, REAL skills I mean.


    Why don't you try to do your fights with lower gear and weaponry and try to win fights using tactics and battle strategy rather than high end modifiers ?

    If you are looking for a challenge, give up all of the top notch equipment and do your fights with just ordinary armor and weaponry and use strategy and battle tactics to try win your fights.

    You'll probably not see the game as that easy any longer.........
     
  7. Izzy MBC

    Izzy MBC Journeyman
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    Just because the higher end items are there and perfectly accessible, I'd be inclined to use them. Yes, I said "I", so I'm speaking for myself here, but maybe others are similar.

    I love a PvM challenge, and fortunately I haven't acquired the top tier high-end items to make me invincible, but I still find a lot of Dungeons a waste of time because all I have to do is vas flam/corp por every creature in Deciet to win, as an example.

    It makes Logical sense to put down my Fandango Leather suit, carry reagents once more, ditch FCR & FC jewellery, and find challenge in the lower end dungeons once more.
    But in reality it's not something I want to do, instead, I keep wishing they'd introduce more & more difficult Dungeons so I can challenge my characters maximum potential, rather then artifically reducing my characters ability.

    I just thought I'd underline that last bit, because it pretty much summerises what I'm getting at, and what the problem is for me.

    I'm not bashing your suggestion though popps :) It really is the easiest way to create challenge, but it seems like it's going backwards instead of forwards in my eyes.

    And on a minor note, there is still a few Dungeons that I find great challenge in fortunately, but damn it is FEW of them; Sorceress Dungeon, Hythloth Level 4, The Labyrinth I guess. There is a few more I think, but still they are getting a little old :3
     
  8. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Of course it's too simple. The harder and longer it takes to obtain your goal the more you play and apreciate your reward. The easier and faster to obtain your goal the less you play and not apreciate your reward. Simple as that.
     
  9. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Actually, high end gear is artificially boosting your character's ability.
     
  10. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    Ditto...

    ...does "skill" really exist now?
     
  11. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    If the enemy is made more intelligent and has its ability boosted then high end gear doesnt make a slight bit of difference.

    Whats needed isnt a re-vamp of gear its a re-vamp of monster AI.

    PvP is about as good as it can be at present, once the artificial boost of ITPP's is gone then it will be alot better.
     
  12. dukarlo

    dukarlo Seasoned Veteran
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    Pvp is very simplistic right now. There are basicly 4 templates the masses are using with a little bit of variation here and there.

    Tamers, all kill. Tamer archers, dismount all kill running shot spam. Tamer mystics, all kill, spell plague,magic arrow,nether bolt spam.

    Mystics. Mystic mage, spell plague, ma netherbolt spam often in groups. Mystic basicly brought mages down to the archer or hider dexer levels. Mystic archers, spell plague ai ai ai or conc conc conc.

    Hiding smokebombing deathstike dexers. Jump out, deathstrike, nervestrike or jump out deathstike disarm bleed with repeated deathstrikes, if it doesnt work just smoke,insta stealth and come back over and over,rinse repeat.

    Fencer archers. Disarm,bleed,ai ai,possible running shot. Very repetetive and rinse and repeat but effective.

    All in all it comes down to the same few things. Disarms,deathstrikes,spellplagues,smokebombs,all kills,ai, in repetetive fashion. It basicly depends on how gimped out a character is and how many of those things it can do. occasionaly youll see another template but its the above ones that are played by the masses.
     
  13. Fink

    Fink Guest

    UO is thousands of different games. It can't and shouldn't be the same for every player. How dull it would be to homogenise the entire experience, stripping out all competition and the ability to get ahead or fall behind someone else. Forcing everyone down the same route means equalising their goals and achievements, which robs them of their value. I wouldn't play if I were locked into the same path as every other player. What would be the point?

    "It's not fair" is the catchcry of the weak, the incompetent, and the lazy. Fairness comes in getting what you earn, not in getting the same as everyone else.
     
  14. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    UO is thousands of different games. It can't and shouldn't be the same for every player. How dull it would be to homogenise the entire experience, stripping out all competition and the ability to get ahead or fall behind someone else. Forcing everyone down the same route

    Then UO would be WoW.

    (Partially joking, mostly serious though as really when you consider the quest tracks and then the Raid tracks at the end, WoW for the most part is almost completely linear, especially compared to UO... sure you can take a few different paths, but in the end, it's all the same)
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Point ? What point ?

    I do not know others, but I have my real life to prove a point. Games, I just play them to spend some extra time I may have at hand and to distract and evade from my regular life.

    I do not play games for no points..........
     
  16. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Agreed 100%. But Popps mentality and others like him are more to the communist point of view. "No matter how hard you try or how little everyone is at same level and has the same thing. There is no ahead and no behind. Carbon copy of the other players with same beggining and end even though the middle might differ." This is there view Can't even hope to change it. Looks like we have a couple Dev leaning to communism as well which is what is truly dissapointing.
     
  17. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I am not sure why there would be any need to bring any politics into an online game.

    My views, plain and simple, have to do with how the game would be overall more enjoyable and not at all about any politics.

    A game has nothing not even close to real life and, therefore, it ain't possible to talk about it using the same logics as in real life.

    This said, the need to have players on an equal footing has no socialist or political reasoning of any sort.

    It only considers that not all players have the same time at hand to play the game and therefore bring their characters up to par with those of others. Not only, as we know, some players do not disdain to cheat like with scripting or hacking or else to gain advantages in the game or wealth to buy high end items.

    All this, brings inequality in the players characters who, therefore, cannot fight each other in a balanced way.

    And, because of this, the game suffers since who enjoys loosing fights too often ?

    Therefore, these players eventually leave the game, the game looses subscriptions and there is less resources for all players to see nice things added to the game.

    Everyone looses out, as I see it.

    If, instead, all players were more on an equal footing, this would ensure for a more challenging environment, game play and fights woud be open ended and more thrilling for everyone, more players would enjoy the game and the game itself would possibly enjoy from more active subscriptions and more abundance of resources.

    This by far nothing at all about socialism or comunism but is merely about making the game more enjoyable for a larger number of subscribers whether they can play it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week or just an hour here and there or whether they would cheat or not cheat.

    This is not real life, this is an entertainment product, folks.
     
  18. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Not politics just the way of thinking. There should never be equality in a game especially one like this. "That's what FPS and strategy game are for" Those who put more efforts have more skill. Have more items,Put in more time, are smarter, have any advantage what soever in any aspect of the game should always have it better of than another player that doesn't. If the other pl;ayer wants to be better of then they have to put in the effort,time,become smarter,etc..

    I do not agree that a player who played for 13 years and has everything including all knowledge in the game can be out done in any aspect by a kid that's 9 years old and played a total of 1 week equivelent in Uo and still manages to have everything that the 13 year old vet worked so hard for.
     
  19. popps

    popps Always Present
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    But neither the gap should be too large or too time consuming to cover with some "catching up" because if it was, it would probably deter new or returning players to play the game and the game itself would suffer from lack of subscriptions.

    That players are the closest possible to each other in their fighting ability, allows for new entries to the game and keeps the game up and running, IMHO.

    Being able to also attract players without much playing time at hand means being able to increase the number of subscriptions and so the resources for the game.
    But if they see their playing would always be at a handicap they might eventually think "why bother" and stay away from the game.

    So, it is not about comunism, it is about trying to bring up the number of active subscriptions as much as possible........
     
  20. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    The fact is the only new players UO will see is hardcore old school players. And those players need a challenge. Those players want to catch up but if they catch up to quickly they will leave. The returning players either played Uo long enough to actually already know how to catch up to anything in the game with effort or did not play the game long enough to be considered a returning player just a foerver transient. So those players we shouldn't be focused on. We should focus on the player that continue to pay for this game year after year. The players that are the reason UO is still here. If the current players that have kept this game running are not satisfied with there years of work and feels hollow this game will eventualy disapear.
    Not enough new kiddies with the mentality of instant satisfaction joining UO to keep it afloat as there are so many better alternatives for that type of mindset out there even if UO keeps moving on that direction.
     
  21. It would be great if roleplaying guilds re-established themselves. Sure, you've got a bunch of people who would make you miserable as often as they could, you didn't let it bother you then other than having no friends they would also fail at the only thing they're good at.

    One of the big problems for me in the RP area is that the PvP system doesn't really doesn't allow it if you were to go full scale RP.

    Unless, that is, you played a Neon nightmare ninja bunnies roleplaying guild that crossdressed in both plate and leather armor.
     
  22. If you ask my opinion, everything is becoming overly complicated. In the past, players only had to depend on their skills and weapons with one or two stats (old power weps). Today, characters have to define their character's capabilities not only through the skills they use, but also the items. Getting the "right" build can costs millions of gold, and that build may only serve 1 purpose.

    I think your aspect of the game becoming "overly simple" is probably due to your game experience and understanding of game mechanics. To somebody outside of the world of Ultima, for instance a friend of mine, the game is "too hard to understand and get into" (which was his quote).

    Ultima doesn't offer any relatively good in-game support or tutorials meaning the playerbase is generally responsible for teaching newbies how to play.