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Is it time for the "Elves Only" item property to go away?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by KLOMP, Dec 28, 2012.

?

Remove the "Elves Only" tag?

  1. Yes, it's pointless.

    70.0%
  2. No, it serves a useful purpose which I will now post about.

    15.0%
  3. Chicken Pot Pie

    15.0%
  1. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    I'm not sure what function this property fulfills now that they're not trying to sell the ML expansion anymore. Roleplay wise, the excuse that "oh elves and humans are different sizes" was always ridiculous, given that elves can wear human gear and use basically the exact same sprites and paperdoll.

    As far as I can tell it just makes humans kind of suck next to elves but doesn't serve any actual purpose. If you can think of one, by all means tell me what it is.
     
  2. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I suspect you can argue the same with gargoyle only I want my base resists to be almost all 70's with exceptional armor as human but it's not win some lose some I guess
     
  3. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    If and when they eventually balance armor which is as we all know severely out of whack, I hope the add in some ability to convert armor to a different race specific armor of an equivalent type. I don't mind race specific stuff, but I do think it should be alterable, and should have a chance to break like enhancement when doing so.
     
    LordDrago and MalagAste like this.
  4. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    That's what I'm talking about.
     
  5. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    The "Gargoyles Only" property kinda has to stay, since gargoyles use completely different graphics. In one case (wing armor) they actually equip gear to a bodypart humans and elves don't even have. That being said, I'm all in favor of more and better conversion options.
     
  6. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    How did you read enough of the post to respond but miss the part where I addressed this idea specifically? It was like half of the post. I don't even...
     
  7. Victim of Siege

    Victim of Siege Crazed Zealot
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    I chose Chicken Pot Pie simply because it was there. But as to the Elves only Tag, i would say no to removing it, but let us alter everything that is race specific to any other race and back again pretty please with sugar on top :D
     
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  8. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    Converting items is nice and all, but how does that make "Elves Only" a good idea? Just have two groups of armor, gargoyle type, and the normal type worn by humans and elves. Let people convert between the two, let them change sprites and make plate helmets into chain coifs or whatever if you want. None of that actually makes "Elves Only" a good idea.

    Nor have I seen even one post actually defend the concept. I'd love to see someone try.
     
  9. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I don't mind it, makes sense from an RP perspective (this being an RPG). However, you've made it pretty clear that you find any RP explanation to be BS, thus I don't see any point to try and defend that. Ability to convert items would be a neat idea though.
     
  10. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    I'd buy the RP explanation if it made any sense at all.

    Unfortunately... it just doesn't, and never did.

    [​IMG]
     
    #10 KLOMP, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
    Shakkara likes this.
  11. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Remove, I love the graphics of the elven robe and want to wear it on my hummie mage.
     
  12. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Should be more human only. Here is an Ideal. Instead of getting some arty gear drop. You get instead an arty token that plasters mods on an exc crafted piece. Token is used only on non med leggings, one handed swords or garg earrings. So on grouping gear in their slot of wear. So there could be AoF chain tunic. Hunter's tricorne or Shadow Dancer's tonet. Be basiccally a block of mods with reforge limitation for crafted clean gear. Add targeting like only non med armor for some. But med armor target token could be used on non med armor giving it also Mage Armor mod. One handed and two handed weapond tokens should never cross over. CC or Tangle token that could be used on other clothing in that slot like the elf belt or obi. Don't even lable the tokens. Just have something like two handed mace token. COuld make the current arty in there spawned color form rare collectors. Have a turn in box for 2 - 3 arty of one type and get a token back. Really who has 3 berserker blades to get a token to convert a skinning knife?
     
  13. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    You know why I put "No, it serves a useful purpose which I will now post about" as the negative option? Because I knew some people would come in, vote no, make no actual argument in favor of Elves Only, and instead launch their own hopeless one-man campaign for some ridiculous idea they just cooked up on the spot that no one else is even going to read.

    I was hoping someone would actually try to post a good reason for Elves Only to exist. Nobody seems able to.
     
    #13 KLOMP, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  14. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I agree with you on the substance actually.

    I can contrive an RP reason for the present condition, but it's a very big stretch, especially now that we have gargoyles in the game to remind us that, yes, the game is capable of graphically supporting racial differences that are rather more noticeable. Would make much more sense if it was mutual. If elves couldn't wear human armor either, I mean. That would make any differences easier to see with the mind's eye. (And to complete the picture, if Plate Armor and Wood Armor were more-equal.)

    And let's not forget the fact that players have RPed elves for years before there was a graphic or mechanics to support it. I actually knew of one who decided the human game mechanics better-suited her elf character's RP. (JOAT and a very hard, weathered appearance.)

    And the morph earrings have always creeped me out somewhat.

    -Galen's player
     
    KLOMP likes this.
  15. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    Ask yourselves this: If the Elves Only property had never been cooked up in the first place, would anyone anywhere have ever looked at those two figures in that screenshot of mine and thought the same armor shouldn't fit them both? Would such an idea ever even occur to anyone who wasn't a developer trying to sell copies of ML?
     
  16. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    They should just have made those items "Mondain's Legacy Only" instead of "Elf Only", would've had exactly the same effect on sales without annoying the hell out of players.
     
    Tanivar, kulder and CovenantX like this.
  17. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    A valid point, however all that picture shows is how little effort was put into designing elves. Elves and humans should not be the same size, in my opinion at least. But then again, we also have characters who are surpsingly close to the size of some houses but manage to fit through the doors. If it were up to me though, we would have a greater selection of "humans only" armor.
     
    #17 Viper09, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  18. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    How about the FEMALE only tag too.
     
  19. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Should get rid of that too. And celebrate it with a crossdressing competition.
     
  20. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Hehe..... if guys want to parade around in dresses and skirts then so be it.
     
  21. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    Adding Human Only gear would just be making worse a problem which has no reason to exist in the first place.
     
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  22. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Even if it's not time for "Elf Only" to vanish, it's time for a Non-Faction pair of Morph Earrings to make an appearance. Need my Beard & Bramble Coat.
     
    #22 CovenantX, Dec 31, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  23. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Used to have a fellow in my guild on LS who would show up to the RP PvP fights in a dress carrying a spear.

    It was an amusing sight.

    He was a good guy and a rather respectable fighter to boot.

    -Galen's player
     
  24. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Oh you mean adding it in now?

    Yes, the train's long-since left the station on that.

    I was talking about long ago when ML was introduced. If elves had been rolled out more like gargoyles, even if the graphics were the same as they are now (meaning if elf armor and human armor were entirely separate), I think if there were human-only armor that would have made the differences that are supposed to be there easier to "see" in the mind.

    -Galen's player
     
    #24 GalenKnighthawke, Dec 31, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  25. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    Unless they're Keebler elves, they're probably going to fall somewhere within the range of adult human norms anyway. I mean if a human is 5'10" and an elf is 5'4" or whatever, what difference does it make? Some humans are 5'4" too and they can wear human armor.

    At the end of the day humans and elves have the same number of appendages, the same approximate proportions, and are close enough to the same size to wield the same weapons with the same number of hands. There's no particular reason for them to need separate armor.

    (This assumes that, lorewise, Sosaria isn't really intended to be a world full of people who are all exactly the same height, which I think we can all agree on.)
     
    #25 KLOMP, Dec 31, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  26. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Someone needs now to draw or otherwise make a picture of Keebler Elves dressed up as Sampires.

    And yeah, that's true, whether they are Tolkein Elves (on average slightly taller and more slender) or D&D Elves (on average slightly shorter and kind of more slight of build) they are still more or less within human standards unless they meant to make the elves as like faeries of some kind.

    Which I doubt. And which I recall no actual evidence for.

    And besides, if Game of Thrones shows us nothing, it shows us that plate armor can be made to smaller scale.

    -Galen's player
     
    Mirt likes this.
  27. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    If Game of Thrones were UO, a hulking six-foot warrior could borrow Tyrion's armor and put it on. As long as the little dude wasn't an elf. Then his armor would be mystifying even to a human of his exact same size.