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Is This Correct?

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by uoBuoY, Aug 26, 2008.

  1. uoBuoY

    uoBuoY Guest

    If I have 100 real Taming and jewel-up to 120, I will gain Taming slower than if I stayed at 100?

    And should I freeze Lore at 100 (like freezing Music at 100) until Taming is finished?

    Thanks for the help
     
  2. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    It depends on what you're taming. Your chance to gain is based on your chance to successfully tame the creature.

    When training a tamer it is advantageous to get a skill trainer statuette off that newbie quest (requires you to use the KR client for the quest). You have a 1:3 chance to get the statue, but imo it's worth the effort and everyone should have one.
     
  3. uoBuoY

    uoBuoY Guest

    I thought about getting that statue but it seems time-consuming and awkward to use. You need to travel all over trying to Tame different creatures to find the optimum.

    This Taming calculator http://www.tamingarchive.com/main/whattotame.php
    simplifies things. Input your Taming and you get a list of the optimum gainers.

    Maybe I wasn't entirely clear in my post. I'll try again.

    Which of the following setups will train Taming the fastest:

    1 - 100 real (no jewels) Taming on Gaman

    or

    2 - 100 real Taming jewelled to 120 on Cu Shides
     
  4. Nenime

    Nenime Guest

    Taming Cus for gaining is a pain, I wouldn't choose this - better Unicorns (or Ki-Rins if your Tamer is male). Grimswind Ruins are good because you call recall in/out. Forest Lord Champion Spawn is an alternative, it's very close to the Spirituality Gate. Unicorns and Ki-Rins are non-hostile what makes taming a lot easier, the spawn area is most widely peaceful too.

    Without jewelry Rigdebacks are the ones to go. The gain speed itself may be a bit slower (due to Taming Difficulty) but then again you can tame them really fast and rush to the next. Best spawn is near Blackthorn's Castle - which is near Compassion Gate. But as you like Gamans you can still gain from them far over 100 but at least around 110 you will have to tame *cough* many of them.

    To get from 100 to 120 you will have to tame quite a lot of creatures. There are two way to benefit from this:
    - either you kill the tamed creature (booh!:rant2: You're a Tamer! ;)) and take the leather or whatever
    - or you donate them to the Zoo Collection and get some nice rewards (i.e. one of the suits).

    Freezing Animal Lore has not the same effect as freezing Music to other Barding skill. AFAIK there is no Lore skill check while taming. But it is indeed a good idea to lock it because you will get a GGS a bit sooner the less overall points you have. You can let it raise later together with Vet. The drawback is that you have less stable slots but that shouldn't be an issue right now, right? :)
     
  5. Nenime

    Nenime Guest

    1 - 62.8 is nearly optimal for gaining. Good choice.

    2 - With 120 you'll always a 50% success chance on Ki-Rins/Unicorns which is also very good. So you can stick with them all your way up.

    Both are good methods. Now it depends simply on numbers which is the best. Try both and see what you can tame faster.
     
  6. Hinotori

    Hinotori Seasoned Veteran
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    I'd say gaman and ridgeback at 100. That's what I used last tamer. I didn't jewel up to tame except in the 50-60 range so I could tame snow leopards easier for gains. Above that definately go with the ki-rin/unicorn.



    This would be a great idea but can't tame champ spawn critters. I'd have a lot of rare hiryus for sale if we could
     
  7. Nenime

    Nenime Guest

    Tee-hee :D Completely right! I used the wrong words. I meant: The normal Unicorn population in the forest area north-west of Spirituality gate. Just for orientation, this forest is the same where the Champion Spawn is, which is more to the north-east. I curtailed the description too much but I hoped it was obvious as I wrote 'non-hostile' and 'peaceful area'. I should have called it 'Sprituality Forest'. Sorry :blushing:

    Anyhow, neither this forest (for Unicorns) nor the Ki-Rin passage is one of my favorite taming grounds. Grimswind Ruins are much better but - as only one Unicorn and one Ki-Rin spawns at a time there - are sometimes occupied by other desperate Tamers. ;)
     
  8. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    I finished my peace tamer at Lore (120), Taming (120) and vet is snailing it to 120, currently at 114.

    I did thelast 5 on Ridgebacks with all jewelry on.

    On that character I never saw any significant difference in Jewelryu or NO jewelry, in terms of regular gains.

    My Stealth Tamer (other account), is now Lore(115), taming(112.2) and training Vet (currently 73.1). Again I have never seen any significant differences in gaining with Jewelry on or off. Again I am using the Ridgebacks.

    The only place I have ever seen a difference is in the TOTAL skill points you have as this is functionally a part of the GGS (guranteed gain system) interval calculation. As far as I can tell jewelry DOES enter into that caclulation.

    I chose to do taming first (with 300 something total skill points used), then turned Lore Lose when I hit 105.x. Now I have turned Vet lose.

    This time around the entire process is going much faster, that could be due to the process or it could be due to me having a better understanding of what to tame etc. OR it could be both.
     
  9. shroud77

    shroud77 Guest

    Consider me an old newbie... so I'm not completely up to speed with how the jewelry affects gains.

    my tamer is at 77 and jeweled up to 100, my cap since I am currently unscrolled. Am I still able to gain even though my displayed skill is at the cap?

    Or could I theoretically keep gaining in real skill while jeweled up to to the cap?
     
  10. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Real skill will continue to gain untill it is at the skill cap.

    The thing I noticed was you did NOT get a message you had gained.

    BUT

    If you are loseing a skill point then you will get that message.

    Jewelry for all intents and purposes is just a means to augment/reconfigure your template. I doubt that many use it that way, but I am sure that is how it was intended.

    I returned several months back.

    Some things I found out that were ... extremely helpful.

    The Virtues.

    Mage Weapon -N This meanst the weapon will use your magic skill level as the weapon skill level, the -N can be from -0 to -25+ That means that amount is subtracted from your magic skill level, while the weapon is equiped.

    This has an important effect. There is a formula that calculates your ability to Avoid the Attack (think blocking). Simple form is it takes your weapon skill (say it is 120 Magic with a -0 Mage Weapon) and subtract it from the opponents Wrestling (pets) and determines your chance to avoid the attack.

    Orange petals. Prevent vs Poison for a few minutes.

    Defensive Chance Increase. This is caped at 45% but it will increase your chance to avoid being hit.

    Honor Taming.

    Lower Reagent Cost attribute on items. 100% Means that when you cast a spell, you will not use any reagents.
     
  11. Nenime

    Nenime Guest

    Yes, Shroud77, you can still gain - but it has to be 'challenging'.

    :scholar:: The taming difficulty has to be on a par with the displayed skill but the gains are given on a par with the real skill.
    Sounds complicated but it ain't - it's only complicated to explain. With jewelry on, tame animals with higher difficulty. Then the gains you get are the same (as regards frequency) as they would be un-jeweled with less difficult pets - if the corresponding success chances are the same.

    Example: Snow Leopard
    48% success chance at 77 skill heigh (unjeweled) -> :)
    94% success chance at 100 skill heigh (jeweled) -> :(

    Example: Bulls
    58% success chance at 100 skill heigh (jeweled) -> :)
    12% success chance at 77 skill heigh (unjeweled) -> :(

    :) good gains
    :( poor gains

    I'm glad I'm not a teacher. I would get fired at once. But I like Smilies :D
     
  12. Pris

    Pris Guest

    When I was over 100 taming, I tamed White Wolves all the way to 120 skill.
     
  13. shroud77

    shroud77 Guest


    Makes perfect sense! Thanks
     
  14. Nenime

    Nenime Guest

    I'm glad to hear that. :)

    The main purpose of putting on jewelry while gaining is that you have a greater variety of animals which you can tame. When you can't find a good spawn of pets corresponding to your skill you can put on a booster and go to the next higher one. After gaining a bit, you can put the trinkets off and still get the same good gains.

    Just in case you're interested in the mechanism, there are also ways to lower a skill i.e. Magery with Minus Mage Weapons. When equipped, you won't gain necessarily faster as the real skill is the same but you can gain from spells one or more circles lower which consume less mana.

    Best would it be if you could lower the real skill because this would give you indeed faster gains. As far as I remember, only Satyrs can do this with their Discordance ability. Peaceful Satyrs can be found in Twisted Weald in Ilshenar. Unfortunately, Taming is one of the skills which cannot benefit from this simply because of the lack of appropriate pets to tame while discorded.
     
  15. uoBuoY

    uoBuoY Guest

    Quoting Nenime

    "Best would it be if you could lower the real skill because this would give you indeed faster gains."

    I thought your skill gain was based on effective skill since you need to train with creatures that are appropriate for your effective skill level. If you have 95 real skill scrolled to 120, I don't think you'll get decent gains off a Gaman.
    Is this incorrect?
     
  16. Nenime

    Nenime Guest

    Temporary. "Best would it be if you could lower the real skill temporary because this would give you indeed faster gains." Maybe I should have inserted this word but I thought it was clear anyway, sorry.

    This is correct - assuming that 'effective skill' is the same as 'modified skill'.

    You gain faster the lower your un-modified (or 'real' skill) is. A Satyr can discord you with 28% skill malus - which is temporary cast upon you. For example, if you have an unmodified (real) skill heigh or 100, after discording you will temporary have 72%. So you could gain faster if adequate (or appropriate) pets were around. Adequate means fitting to your modified skill in the sense of optimal chance for gaining. If you are discorded and still wear jewelry, you have to take this into account what to tame.

    When you compare two methods to gain (whether jeweled-up or not, discorded or not), the essential condition is that the other parameters are equal, i.e. that you tame animals which are suitable for your modified (or 'displayed', 'effective' ...) skill. To see the modified skill, switch off the "Show Real" button in the skilll section in the 2D client. In KR toggle the "Real/Modified" button to "Modified". This skill heigh determines what to tame.


    Model: Grandmaster Tamer with 100 real skill points:

    Example: Alligator
    50% success chance at 72 skill heigh (discorded, unjeweled) -> :) :)


    Example: Gamans
    62.8% success chance at 100 skill heigh (unjeweled) -> :)
    100% success chance at 120 skill heigh (jeweled +20) -> :(

    6.8% success chance at 72 skill heigh (discorded, unjeweled) -> :(
    46.8% success chance at 92 skill heigh (discorded, jeweled +20) -> :) :)


    Example: Nightmares
    50% success chance at 120 skill heigh (jeweled) -> :)
    10% success chance at 100 skill heigh (unjeweled) -> :(

    0% success chance at 92 skill heigh (discorded, jeweled +20) -> :(
    0% success chance at 72 skill heigh (discorded, unjeweled) -> :(


    This is theoretically thinking because in Twisted Weald there are neither Gamans nor Nightmares nor Alligators. I choosed them just to illustrate the mechanism.