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Is VvV really working how they want?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Ruppy2, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. Ruppy2

    Ruppy2 Journeyman
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    If so, I should have sold my complete set of banners for a LOT more!

    If you are the only occupant of a contested city no points are earned for standing or walking around, but the timer/progress bar expires after 4 minutes with zero points earned.
     
  2. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    They changed it so thieves stealing the sigils is pretty much pointless now to. They would have to steal hundreds just to get 1 deco reward.
     
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  3. S_S

    S_S Certifiable
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    And this is why VvV will fail.... just like factions did. You can't please everyone, but you can't nerf every aspect of it either and expect people to enjoy it. Glad I got every item I wanted before the change happened. =/
     
  4. Ruppy2

    Ruppy2 Journeyman
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    I thought they had a 'team' of VvV advisors....somebody missed the boat on either the publish or the fix, as this will have the OPPOSITE effect of drawing people into the fun/game of pvp in fel. :frown2: Would be interesting to know who 'tested' this idea out and said "yeah, this will work."

    As it was, I busted out MANY continuous hours of login time to get the sets of banners to be able to sell one.

    This just pissed MANY people off that were half way (or so) to gaining their own set as this NEW IMPROVED system will drive them elsewhere...I realize the time to be in DOOM is now, but during RTB you would think they would put the best foot forward.

    Oh well....not my game.
     
  5. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Well, to be honest almost nobody tested it while it was on test center. I tried it almost daily the whole time it was there and only ever saw the same 5-10 people. If people don't want things to get messed up, they should at least help test it and give feedback before it gets released.
     
  6. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    what was changed? i couldnt find anything in patch notes.
     
  7. Glenny glenn

    Glenny glenn Adventurer

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    So they made it where no points are earned if no one is there to oppose you? Simple fix really just make an alt account and stick it in the city

    Also the sigil thing sounds heavy handed and I disagree with the degree they nerfed but SOMETHING had to be done. On chessy there is a thief that flat out refuses to fight period and just steal sigils all day long. Fun for him sure but I feel like the whole point of VvV was about pvp, not trying to avoid it so you can make money off the rewards
     
  8. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Smoot likes this.
  9. Ruppy2

    Ruppy2 Journeyman
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    I was on TC as well...in fact it ended up with me getting a 24 hour thread ban because I said nobody was working VvV on TC (icky situation with prior stratics reporter who tried using his pictures versus my video...don't think he's a reporter any longer).

    I appreciate you stating you too tested, or tried to test, which goes back to my post/question on why they nerfed the roll out SO MUCH after supposedly having first recruited VvV people to draw suggestions from.

    My hope is they turn the progress bar off and simply make it a strict 2o minute timer per town (or fills with earned points from altars or sigils)...maybe I should explain more...right now, if you walk around in town (non-stealth) you get no points, but the 'timer' or progress bar keeps ticking.

    I've got to think they are needing/wanting to attach the progress bar to earned points and not if a single person is walking around in a city...maybe not.

    If it is as intended people will find a work-around, but it will do more damage to the people that want to earn points more 'properly.'
     
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  10. HugsNKissesUO

    HugsNKissesUO Visitor

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    Factions had more potential though and was actually a popular system at one point in time.
     
  11. HugsNKissesUO

    HugsNKissesUO Visitor

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    The team consisted of 8 trammies, 1 pvp/pvm player, and 1 pvp player.
     
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  12. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Before anyone complains about the way the system works, you better be someone who got involved in the testing of the system, especially when the devs specifically ask for assistance.

    If the devs were testing a new system for the thief profession, while I might not be happy with the end result, I certainly wouldn't complain about the people who actually spent their time to try and give the developers feedback...la
     
    #12 TheScoundrelRico, Oct 21, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
  13. Ruppy2

    Ruppy2 Journeyman
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    I can post the video of me on TC, trying to assist with feedback, which took place prior to the original publish, although the video might not be date stamped.

    People obviously complained after the publish to get the patch to the original 'changed' or the devs made the change on their own after seeing whatever was happening. The current way will not improve/increase participation in VvV....guaranteed...the original version was better than what exists now.
     
  14. Galedriel613

    Galedriel613 Adventurer
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    I wish I had gotten everything I wanted before - now it's not worth playing at all
     
  15. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    For the thousandth time

    BALLOT BOXES SO THE PLAYERS CAN FREAKING VOTE SO WE COUKD OF SAID NO TO THAT CHANGE!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    That would be a good idea in theory, but think about it, if there were ballot boxes that means the players who have the most accounts would be able to control every decision that was made using them. One person with 50+ accounts could change the game completely whether it's what most people want or not.
     
  17. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Maybe so..but fortunately this specific change would of been voted down


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
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    IM sorry @Kyronix and @Bleak It seems like nothing you guys do will satisfy everyone.

    *sings a stones song* "you cant always get what you want... but if you try sometimes well you just might find... you get what you need"
     
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  19. Tinky Feetz

    Tinky Feetz Adventurer
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    It's not that I refuse to fight, my template isn't offensive. If you would size up the competition and find out what you were against, you could figure out what type of TACTICS to use. I understand that TACTICS isn't what most want to use. Go to search.uo.com the MyUO Database and check out that chessy thiefs template. I haven't sold any of the items I've collected. I do PvP, just not your type of Player Vs Player, I use the skills that the game allows me to use and I use tactics to overcome the combat PvPers.

    The only change that really needed to be made in my opinion was increase silver for altars to equal sigils, increase mana spike duration, increase silver for kills(of those not in stat lose, zero silver if you kill someone in stat lose).

    I'm sorry that I don't just run up to you as soon as I see you and throw a dp shuriken at you and just stand there for you to kill me.

    Perhaps the Devs can incorporate a feature, so that as soon as I steal a sigil everyone gets teleported directly to me and they can make it so that when the sigil gets stolen, the thief is paralyzed until someone kills him. That sounds good, doesn't it?
     
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  20. Great DC

    Great DC Journeyman
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    LOL. This is what happens when you have a focus group of 90 percent trammies. The sigil thing was ridiculous as far as points went. Who's trammy idea was it to hide the sigils and the stone to put it on????? No pvper will sacrifice a skill to add detect hidden its a complete waste of time. Sigils were never hidden in factions!! Most points should be given for kills in town, then alters and then sigils. Its a PVP system that thiefs can be involved in, not a THIEF system with hardly no PVP. But anyways IDC cause I basically quit playing since VvV destroyed pvp.
     
  21. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    Some like to play thieves....
     
  22. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    I don't usually support professions of crime in UO, like thieves, but seriously....I feel bad for those who truly enjoy playing a thief, and aren't just doing it to grief people. I never really paid attention to it until lately, but wow, it seems like every new patch that gets released kicks thieves in the face....I understand the original devs nerfing them with trammel...but come on lol, let the people have something worth using their thieves for.
     
  23. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Just eliminate insurance and I'm sure thieves would stop complaining...la


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  24. Lucky Luke

    Lucky Luke Journeyman
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    I'm a complete Pvm'er but VvV interested me. I just finished skilling my char and now it has gm detect hidden & gm stealing and some ninja archer skills. This took a lot of effort, multiple soa's and sot's, gold, time, ...

    I played VvV for 2 days. Now i don't even feel like logging into my thief archer anymore :(
    Sometimes i feel being toyed with by the dev's...

    @Kyronix Why thieves get no love in VvV?
     
  25. Donal Mor

    Donal Mor Lore Keeper
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    I have a pure thief, no combat skills. Pulled him out of VvV. There is no point now.

    He has no intrinsic advantage being a stealther. One guild in particular had it all figured out. They camped the sigil turn in locations. They camped the hidden sigil locations. Lots of fields, conflag potions, and detect hidden. It was challenging but they clearly had the edge. It is very easy to shut down a stealther with some modicrum of skill and effort.
     
  26. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Maybe we need to look at what we wish to get from VvV

    1. To be able to PvP without taking murderer Counts. (It serve this well, even when I believe VvV should be active on all facets but a non VvV could not heal or attack a VvV in Trammel facets)
    2. Easier to find a fight (the call to battle Towns are a nice thing here)
    3. More enemies (it work well here as it is all other VvV vs your alliance)
    4. Reasons to fight. (there are the town battles and hunting grounds in Fel)
    5. Rewards (I personly don't feel there should be rewards, but that's my opinion)
    6. It have to work with current alliance system (It do)
    7. It should not split guilds in VvV and non VvV (this works fine too)

    I know there may be more goals for VvV. In my opinion, it can end up as a perfect PvP switch, but there may still be a few thing to code before it can be released in Trammel facets too.
     
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  27. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    The notion that VvV "destroyed" pvp is preposterous.

    So here is the 411 on having tramelites in the focus group. If you want to enlarge the population of UO that pvps, you are going to have to find a way to bring folks that don't normally pvp in. It's really simple like that. And guess what, it worked! For a few glorious moments the towns were filled with action, and the adrenaline junkies, like myself, were ecstatic.

    See, people want to participate. And there are a lot of different playstyles in UO. You wouldn't take your straight parry mage to solo Paroxysmus. Well, you might, once, and then you would learn something and change your tactics. Put my dexxer on his own in an open field battle against a parry mage, and I am almost guaranteed to lose eventually. As part of a small team that includes any kind of ranged offense I am a game changer. I can harry, I can disrupt, and just when you think I am out of the action I can wheel in and throw a greater exp that makes all the difference in whether you should have had a gheal up, or made that combo against my team mate work.

    Fel isn't just about combat. It is the open sandbox of the game, and trapped boxes and bagballs aren't "cheating". Those things are in the mechanics of the game for you to use if you can wrap your mind around the pros and cons of doing so. Like a quarterback sneak, some things, if not overused, can be highly advantageous at an opportune moment.

    And so, in order to make the tent bigger, you have to be willing to include: the healers, the thieves, the tamers, the poisoners, the mad scientist stealth alchies. My friend, the playing field of pvp is not yours, it isn't your guilds, it is for everyone who wants a piece of it. Some do it for powerscrolls, some do it for resources, some do it for the thrill (I suspect you and I both fall in this category, because, well, it's addictive), and some would do it for banners and ten point pinks. Or at least that is how it would start. Again, it's addictive.

    So the choice is out there. A bigger pool of people with which to play, or more grind. Because what the devs won't be doing is handing out points and banners and ten point pinks for free. That is as right as it is obvious. I think the challenge to them is to find some balance between, work, time, challenge and reward. I don't know if there is some metric that can be used to balance the small shards vs the large shards, like looking at total number of VvV players logged in on any given shard and awarding points on a scale in that fashion. But I will say this, again. The vast majority of people are not going to put hours and hours in to make no gold, and receive no other real benefit. If on my little shard I can make 100 to 150 points wasting my time as a sitting duck on an alter when I could be doing Narvey or Lady Mel, again, or spawning, then I would consider the time well spent.

    I hope someone got videos of the chaos on ATL. I would really like to see that. I wasn't there because I was busy doing it, playing the game, on my own home shard.
     
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  28. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    The great majority of gamers, in this game and almost all others are pixel crack addicts in some form or fashion. You play in an unusual ruleset. One that is desirable to a tiny fraction of players. And getting the devs to code something specific to that playerbase is almost a for sure non starter. Tweaks to the system, yes, and done. Are the costs for rewards, gear and such the same on Siege as other prodo shards? Or do you have the multiplier like on other npc sold items?
     
  29. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I was not looking on Siege in this case but generelt for the game. It was meant as a brain storming for the goals for VvV. I was not in the focus Group. I play Siege because I like the ruleset and I like to be able to play on all facets. Yes VvV may effect Siege different. We do not have the VvV artifacts, that's fine as I want PvP'er and crafters to need each others.

    Now if you look at my list and then see what you would set as goal for a working VvV system for normal shards.
     
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  30. Advisor Bacchus

    Advisor Bacchus Visitor

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    Correct me if I am wrong but most of the people having issue now are people simply trying to make gold off rewards?
    I thought it was supposed to be a pvp first system with rewards as a little bonus?
    A pvp centric system should never greatly reward thieves for doing nothing other then skulking around taking zero risk imo.
    I believe that should be painfully obvious to any unbiased players no?
     
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  31. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    I posted to that effect already. I think the system is fine with a need for some tweaking to balance effort and points distribution.
     
  32. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Not sure about the zero risk. I mean I am not sold on the concept that they are risking nothing. It is a teamwork thing.
     
  33. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Always hard to make a new system, as there always will be players who will find ways to abuse it. I like the system too and look forward to see it be tweaked
     
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  34. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Unfortunately, it's always been easier to cry to the developers to get thieves and stealther nerfed than actually taking the time to figure out how to do it on their own...la
     
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  35. Donal Mor

    Donal Mor Lore Keeper
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    The only time this worked was if you were the only one in town. Otherwise there is plenty of risk if your opponent knows what they are doing. Stealthers are just harder to find, not harder to kill.
     
  36. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    The "everybody should fight cause that is what VvV is for" argument is weak at best.

    Thieves have at least 3 non-combat skills tied up in order to steal sigils. Now, I'm sure most thieves wouldn't mind also fighting if, upon entering a town during battle, combat templates lost 300 points of combat skills to even things up.

    Learn to cast field spells. Add tracking and detect hidden to your templates. Buy traps from Silver vendor and use them. Throw pots around. Work as a group instead of a group of solos.

    Sucks that after 17 years I still have to teach people how to play UO. Stop slamming the Nerf Button every time the game changes in a manner that strips you of your insured godliness. :p
     
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  37. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Can't please every group with a system. I just want a fun functional PvP system. Are there not countless other systems catering to every other playstyle like pvm and deco grabbers? (PvP thief excluded).

    The only system left encouraging PvP that hasnt been smacked around to cater to all groups is power scrolls, and it wasn't even intended for that purpose, it just ended up that way. But since power scrolls have been around for like 10 years that system has somewhat run its course.

    The old faction system had real potential, many players even had amazing ideas involving town control benefits. Why these systems couldn't be blended together I have no idea. But if the focus group was really full of a bunch of people who did not PvP or understand most of those mechanics, then PvP in any form will continue to be a red headed step child moving forward.
     
  38. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    The progress bar should indicate points say 0-500 plus a percentage bonus to the winning guild/alliance if they complete a certain number of objectives.
    The progress shouldn't move unless an objective is made whether it be killing a player, capturing an alter, or returning a sigil. (There's a 20 minute timer anyway).

    Tune the points awarded for completing each of those three tasks to a 20 minute timer.

    Alters x5 per battle, every 3.5 minutes 50 points each. (250)

    Sigils
    x10 per battle, every 1/20 minutes (after stolen) 25 points each. (~250)

    Killing players
    (Not under the affects of Stat-loss) 10 points each. (???)

    the first group to 500 points, or the leading group at the end of the battle duration wins.


    Additional Bonuses: Each bonus can only be applied once per battle.

    Capture two Alters during a single battle, earn +20% additional points if your team wins.

    Return four Sigils during a single battle, earn +20% additional points if your team wins.

    Kill five opposing VvV players during a single battle, earn +10% additional points if your team wins (Only players not affected by stat-loss).

    Awarding up to a maximum of 750 points to the winning team.
     
  39. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    I do wish there was a way for the points to be a more known static number like cov said, with more than just a progress bar indicating what's going on.
     
  40. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Good luck killing my stealther without a team to help..that's if I even decide to stand around and toy with you a bit, which is more often then not..but I digress


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  41. Ruppy2

    Ruppy2 Journeyman
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    Good stuff.

    There will need to be a similar "you have recently killed this person" stipulation so that the kill points are not abused. I think in factions you had to kill a fifth different person before you would collect 'points.'
     
  42. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I'd even go as far a saying once every 4 hours you receive points..

    It's hard because so many people have multiple account and or dummy character they can join up and delete kind of deals

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  43. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    its pretty dead with the reduced points..let is die in peace... was good for a week or so... alas the doogooders have ruined it again
     
  44. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    lol again a few whingers have whinged because low population shards was easy to get points and there high population shards was harder due to increased population ..and u cant xshard them either....lolz....... alarm bells they cant do what u can on the lower population shard...alarm bells....... lolz....greedy sods......so everyone gets **** points now... well done the do-goodeers of the game.. the whinge crew...awesome...pat yaself on the back
     
  45. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    u- just - killed VvV ...whinging
     
  46. Great DC

    Great DC Journeyman
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    LOL, this is exactly what is wrong with the game today. All the trammy thieves were fine winning the towns constantly with their ridiculous points gained by stealing sigils, but once that is taken away and they have to do more they just quit like usual. Take a little pride in yourself and try to be a better player. All you need to steal sigs is stealing and detect, you do not need hiding and stealth. that leaves 500+ skill points to be a offensive player and still pvp. Everyone wants the easy street option, where the challenge or will to play that way. Take the free silver points for new deco away and wah wah wah is all you here from them. It so sad.
     
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  47. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I agree, it was a good idea to get no pvpers input, but... 8 and 1/2 out of 10 were the feedback team for a system ostensibly being designed FOR pvpers? That's just stupid. At WORST it should have been 50/50. :/
     
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  48. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    um how do you guys know who was actually on the team? was it announced somewhere? or is this just word of mouth.
     
  49. James Moriarty

    James Moriarty Journeyman
    M8s

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    It appears the team were all picked and kept secret. As no one on here has admitted to being on the team they may even have been sworn to secrecy.

    There may not even have been a team and they just told us there was one. But the fact it was all kept hush, hush makes it sound like they didnt want anyone to know that most of the team had never PvPed before
     
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  50. Spock's Beard

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    Of course their new PVP system tanked after like a week. Like 75% of everything these devs adds dies off after a week.