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It seems like imbuing is just for pvp

Discussion in 'UHall' started by ACB1961, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    I powergame. I'll admit it. I either don't play uo at all, or I really play a lot.

    I noticed something Connor said, and I got to thinking about how much damage my weapons take when I'm really playing a lot. It is very normal to knock a weapon down 150 pts in a normal day. TOT3 taught me that its possible to knock incredible amounts of points off of weapons in a day. I would have to repair meleeing weapons 2 times a day. The bows would be down 150-180 points because the archers didn't take much damage at all. Still, this is a serious problem.

    We are talking about months to a year at most on any melee weapon we make depending on playstyles. Only God knows what it will cost to make these max weapons, and the loot from the monsters is just not worth this potentially incredible expense. Miasma or the Swoop for example will beat a weapon down pretty badly in a short time. We're already killing them anyway with weapons that we can repair, and maintain for a reasonable cost.

    I can see spending any amount of money for a pvp advantage. Particularly, if you are a large guild or group that is already in control of spawns netting 100s of millions, or if you want to o3n folks. I just can't see this being viable in pvm.

    I'll max imbuing anyway, maybe I'm wrong...

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    So are you proposing that players should be able to POF them? Which would mean that about any weapon that isn't imbued to that max would be worthless. I fail to see the point that you are trying to make. Other than the fact that you are complaining about the weapons eventually breaking because you supposedly "pvm" a lot.
     
  3. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    I've noticed that alot of people are neglecting to notice that you can still make really good weapons, armor and jewelry with out ever having to use the special lumberjacking, fishing or mining resources. I checked this out myself before the open beta was shut down. For example, I made a really awesome ring and brace set with only iron, the imbuing resources and common gems from a jeweler (see below). As long as you stay below max intensity, you'll never need the special resources and you'll save yourself a TON of money (or time). Of course it will be viable for pvm, especially those tamers out there with disco or provo (and many other templates as well).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    I think you should never listen to what Connor has to say.

    If you POF an item up to 255 before you imbue it - it will last a year or two of normal gameplay at worst.

    Go take your favorite weapon - POF it to 255/255. Now beat it down to 50pts or so of dur and then repair. Rinse and repeat. Let me know when you get down to 100/100. Use it heavily for a month. Let me know where you are with durability at the end of the month.

    My guess is about 230/230. So what if it wears out after 2 years? Isn't that long enough?

    Besides, no one will use the same weapon over and over again day in and day out.

    This is clearly a non-issue.
     
  5. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Good, bang out your weapon in a month, it will keep crafters busy. or get good gear without imbueing and stop whining.
     
  6. guum

    guum Guest

    You're using the one example of where imbuing might not be useful in PVM. Weapons do take a lot of durability damage. But I doubt you'll go through jewelry all that fast, and if you start at 255/255, you can make armor last quite a while too. Plus, as long as you stick to 4 mods instead of 5, imbuing weapons will be plenty cheap enough -- it's just that 5th mod that's really pricey. And I don't know about you, but my dexxer's weapon only has 4 mods that I really want on it anyway, and none are maxed, so it'll still be an improvement.
     
  7. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Jewerly will be great. Bards/tamers can use this to finish off thier Bard skills.
    Mages can now have that all 70/LRC/ManaRegn/HPRegn/SDincrease
    Will take a long time to wear out and by then you should have enough resources to replace it.
     
  8. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Can anyone else see the same problems for the game that I see ?

    " I can see spending any amount of money for a pvp advantage. Particularly, if you are a large guild or group that is already in control of spawns netting 100s of millions"


    Imbuing as an extra tool for those already way too powerfull to hold tight their power and control of the Monopoly of Powerscroll Spawns ?

    And this should be good for the game ?

    I entirely disagree.........
     
  9. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Who would have figured?
     
  10. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Mages and tamers in PvM will be able to use the same stuff until UO gets shut down.
     
  11. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    For ToT3, I ended up using two of the same weapon as I would invariably knock one from full repair down to 0 before the evening had passed. Problem solved.

    For Imbuing, the lack of PoF is fine since you can always remake the item in question.

    As a melee PvM player, I have no problems with the way Imbuing is structured.
     
  12. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Hmmm... I am sorry, but I cannot agree with anything which might make the already too powerfull even more powerfull and for the weaker even more difficult to catch up.

    A key element of PvP, IMHO, is BALANCE.

    Giving ways to the uber powerfull to become even more powerfull because those tools are too expensive for the ordinary player to use them well, is not a way, to my opinion, to balance things out but it can only widem the gap among them.

    We have imbuing which is expensive AND we have Scroll Binders which will make Powerscroll Spawns even more rewarding.

    So, those with the most wealth (the Guilds which hold the Monopoly of the powerscroll spawns) will have now even more tools (the expensive imbuing) to strengther even more their already tight monopoly of that rewarding source now even made more rewarding with Scroll Binders......

    How can I possibly agree ?

    Rather than giving a hand to the weak to catch up (and so make PvP more interesting and challenging) the hand goes to the strong to become even more stronger ?

    Hallo ??
     
  13. popps

    popps Always Present
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    And when will that be, if I may ask ??
     
  14. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    I dont play for long streaks but I also knock the 255 stuff down pretty quick. I use an exiler for the Ice demon. I have 3 new ones saved from ToT3 because the past ones were pretty worn.

    Bows wear very fast.

    I dont know how fast jewelry will wear out.

    I wouln't be surprised to see some shocked people when they spend millions for the first imbues and they wear out in a few weeks.
     
  15. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    When you stop complaining.
     
  16. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest


    How is imbuing going to be too expensive for the ordinary player? Did you even test imbuing? Everything can be gathered and collected, nothing has to be bought.

    Do you really think that powerscroll's are the only way to obtain wealth in the game? Maybe join or create a guild to get some on your own if that's the only way you see to obtain wealth.

    Maybe instead of spending all time your time whining on a forum, you could spend your time playing and you wouldn't be so weak?


    Aristillus
     
  17. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    255/255 imbued item if repaired at 10 to 20 point mark you have around 30,000 total durability. You heard it right, it's THIRTY THOUSAND!

    Lets assume you can really knock down 150 points a day because the only thing you can kill are slimes thats still a good 200 days. The item will last you at least 200 days.

    TWO HUNDRED DAYS for a weapon designed to what you want on them exactly. And if you cant make the ingredients cost back before your THIRTY THOUSAND DURABILITY POINTS wear out you are doing something seriously wrong. Rethink what you are killing. Slimes arent the only mob in game, and if you are so stubborn and wants to do nothing but killing slimes with a godly weapon all day, you can simply slap on Spell Channeling mod onto your weapon and then the acid will not have an effect in reducing your durability.

    Again anyone knows little calculus can calculate it, from 255/255 and assuming you repair at 10 durability left you will get about 30000 durability points, thats 200 RL days for a powergamer. Please... how can you possibly ask for more? I think DEV should just make imbuing 10 mods cap with 1200 total intensity on one item and let the durability go up to 65535/65535 and allow imbuing "self repair + 50" that counts no mods and takes 1% intensity.

    Then we will probably see people complaining how 10 mods makes the description too long and wants a way to turn it off and on. Then people will probably complain how come you cant imbue a free "Blessed" mod on it.

    :wall:
     
  18. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Poops...stop. Imbuing is there to level out the playing field for ALL players...not just fel players.

    Also, quit crying *no fair* already...it really is getting old...especially the ignorant part.
     
  19. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    I was about to say something along the same lines. Right now the advantage is in the hands of those with the time to farm runics, or those willing to pay outrageous prices for the best gear made with them. With Imbuing, any mule that takes the skill will have the potential to make or imbue better equipment than any runic, at a much less time consuming rate or expense.

    Instead of throwing away 99% of the loot on a corpse now folks can take it to unravel to gain the ingredients for Imbuing.
     
  20. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    I definitely agree with your logic.

    Not to mention...that there are weapons for every purpose. I would never use an Imbued weapon out whacking Orcs, unless I was able to make something just like it without any cost, or at an excessively low cost.

    I do use a small assortment of weapons, but since there will be a choice between using a POFable and never wear out wep, as opposed to an Imbued and Bound to Break Eventually piece, it would seem to make sense to pick the wep, and time to use it, properly, based on availability to replace the Bound to Break types.

    I will definitely have a selection of both types, when Imbuing is available (Imbued and Just Runic) to ensure I maximize my arsenal to it's fullest.

    But like you say, the sheer amount of times you can repair, before it goes Poof would allow to at the very least farm enough gold, and/or items, to replace the piece, when it does go Poof!

    Makes sense to me, anyway!

    :thumbsup:
     
  21. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    [​IMG]The Sky is Falling
    This is just for you popps

    Lord Frodo Legendary Smith/Tailor has made more money for me selling bod rewards than all my other chars combined. 3-Legened Warriors, 1-Legened Mage and a Legened Tamer/Bard. All those 120 scrolls and suits for all my chars, 3 Keeps, Rares and more crap then I know what to do with, where all from Frodo. Thank you Lord Frodo (Legendary Crafter) beacuse without you I would never been this far in the game.
     
  22. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Popps
    Did you fill out the servey?
    Did you test SA free beta?
     
  23. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Yes
     
  24. -=KLiM=-

    -=KLiM=- Guest

    Indeed this is an issue, actually, it's same as with replicas. Recently i got Lt. Sash replica, i don't PvP that much, mostly do spawns. I was extremely happy when i got the sash coz then i could max out SDI and get the last 10% of LRC. Sadly, i noticed, that each spawn took away 10 durability points of my sash, that would make it last for about 150 spawns. Considering 2 spawns per day, the lifespan of that sash would be just about 2.5 months. Same goes for imbued items (weapons especially, since they take more damage), they'll last just a little bit longer coz they have 255/255 and not 150/150
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
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    It all depends what the final set up will be for ingredients.
    If the ingredients will be such that the average player can have access to them then yes, imbuing could possibly help level out the playing field.

    If, instead, there will be ingredients hard to get that mostly powergamers and wealthy players will be able to have access to then imbuing will not help much in closing the existing gap.
     
  26. popps

    popps Always Present
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    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=153461




    Not the only way, but the most certain way, yes.
    Everyone needs powerscrolls and, at the end, the Champ also drops a ton of gold....

    Since not all players can hunt for their own powerscrolls but all players can hunt for their artifacts (and now make their own with imbuing) it is more likely that there is a lively market for powerscrolls than for any other item in the game.....
     
  27. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I can only assume that those who consider this to be an issue never played before AoS when stuff wore out, it was part of the game.
    I admit that stuff costs more now, but then gold is easier to get now, it's all proportional.
    When my hubby and I started playing we lived in the inn for 6 months, it took us that long to save up the 500k it needed to buy a small marble shop. Now newbies have a house in the first day and 500k can be gathered in not much more time.
    I think some of the people who play now would quit if they thought they'd got to live in an inn and save up to buy a house!
     
  28. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    That is for an all 70's suit with 100% LRC. (There could be more ingredients sued up with more fails on creating) Now tell me that those ingredients are too expensive or that this suit is for pvp only.
     
  29. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest


    and you know also, that many players QUIT in those "good old days" because of worn out items/stolen items :wall:
    99% of all mmo players simply DON´T like to lose items !
    (without insurence and invul. Items UO wouldn´t exist today)

    Petra,wake up,you life to much in the past,
    we have 21 century,and not the stone age of computergame industry :)

    imbuing looks like a good compromice,but if it is to hard it will conter the intension !
    worn out items (imbuing) maybe will get accepted,but it is a thin line to hold players interest and the total boredom of continuos replacement.

    we should not only see things with oure own eyes,(most of us are fat with gold and resources), i have no problem to outfit ALL of my characters with umbued stuff.

    ;)
     
  30. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest



    ...That is for an all 70's suit with 100% LRC......???
    Who will built this?
    players like to get the best they can get.
    a 70/100 lrc is,if any, a cheap "all day" mining/lumber suit :D
     
  31. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    Me! Definately! :D And maybe Siege players too.
    High end imbuing will be funny but very expensive too. Since most players only look at the high end part, they often oversee the usefullness at mid-range/lower-range. It is not true, that imbuing is only interesting for pvp, it is also very interesting for balancing suits with some 'cheaper' artefacts mixed. I've been running around at public Illshenar champ spawns with worse equipment:
    - a true melee-necro with a full virtue armour set
    - an archer with exceptional leather armour suit
    And no one complained about and I was having fun with.
    I see on several occasions players running around with really silly equipment. My imbued 100 LRC/all 70's armour set is not much worse than the sorcerors suit but it costs way less. If you throw in 1-3 'cheaper' artefacts (that dont wear off) you can exceed the sorcerors set and still stay way below the costs for that armour set.
     
  32. popps

    popps Always Present
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    For that suit no but that suit is good for PvM.

    My concern about a Player vs. Player "gap" is not much in regards to a good suit for PvM but more as in regards to PvP.

    I keep hearing all the time discussions about how PvP should be promoted in this game and it finds me in perfect agreement.

    I am all in favour of promoting PvP in Ultima Online.

    Thing is, that noone enjoys losing in PvP fights and when one side has much better modifiers most often times well, that's not fun for the other side.......

    Since the game relies now too heavily on items and modifiers, skills matters much less.

    So, it is hard to make it up for inferior items or modifiers.

    In order to have a lively PvP it is important that powergaming and wealth do NOT matter much in getting the upper hand otherwise, that balancing of players which is at the bases of a good and lively PvP, IMHO, would be harder to be reached.

    Only having all players whether rich or poor, powergamers or not moreless with the same chances to win fights, can PvP be promoted in the game.

    At least, that is how I think.
     
  33. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    As for going deeply into pvp ...
    The differences for someone with faction arties and someone without will definately be higher than between someone with much money and imbuing and someone with much money and without imbuing. As I am not that heavily into pvp, I havent checked to build a suit around faction arties. Probably imbuing will even out more the gap between those, who already have spend xxx millions on items and those who dont, than to wider that gap.
     
  34. guum

    guum Guest

    Yeah, that set is way overrated. I honestly don't understand why anyone uses it -- if you can afford the sorceror's suit, you can afford better.
     
  35. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    popps, do you even PvP? Sounds like you're just getting tossed around like a ragdoll and blame it all on the gear difference... My guess is that if some GM gave you invulnerability in-game you'd still somehow die.
     
  36. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    The good thing about Imbuing is that is allows for choice. If someone feels it won't help them, they can choose to use existing Artifacts and Runics.

    Personally, I have used maybe 5-10 jars of PoF since it was introduced. I'm not much of a powergamer. I only plan on using Imbuing to finish out my Artified suits. When I get to a level where I can Imbue a decent amount of mods on a single piece, then I'll PoF the items prior to Imbuing them.

    The thing is that if Powergamers will go through their equipment faster, they should also be bringing in the gold/resources to remake/rebuy their items that are getting worn out.
     
  37. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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    The thread should have ended after this post. Who cares if it wears down if you don't even have to buy any expensive resources?
     
  38. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    1. Not this again. We already had 4 or 5 pages of this "OVER 9000" durability argument nonsense in Wilki's thread about the now defunct change to Imbuing.
    2. I'm of the opinion that items should wear out faster, which should be balanced by a reduction in the resource requirements to make any single item. There should be faster turn-over in Imbued items to stimulate the economy and the utilization of crafters/resource-gatherers.
     
  39. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    What does bringing up another whiney post of yours have to do with anything that I said?


    All players in the game can hunt their own powerscrolls, just not all will be successful. Not every champ spawn on every shard is camped 24/7. Maybe be more creative with your attempts?

    And maybe the most lively market in the game will be imbuing ingredients? Which everyone can gather. Maybe this is your chance to make a fortune?

    Aristillus
     
  40. Lord Patapon

    Lord Patapon Guest

    This is true, and is even more since the ghost-cam fix (which was a REAL pain)

    Getting a champ done for Tram players is now way more easy.
    Just avoid getting to the more accessible champ spawns, and think about setting lures to mess with eventual scouts, if you can.
     
  41. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    nah i'm really not proposing anything.

    Seriously, its not about what I want at all. I just can't see this being worth putting in all the work and gold to kill mobs we're already killing.
     
  42. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    those are very nice, and that is an excellent point.
     
  43. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    But, that's whats about to happen. There's nothing we can do about that part of it at all.
     
  44. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    Here's the real problem. There is no way to keep the powerful from being powerful. If you completely changed every aspect of uo, roughly the same people would rise to power again. There would be a few exceptions.

    The only thing you could do to make this balanced is make everyone use the same exact things, which will never happen. You could also make the entire thing like a big test center, then everyone would quit.

    Getting rid of scripters, speedhackers and other cheaters would raise prices to overall uo player because in uo or the real world ANYTHING you do raises costs to normal people. I hope one day to log in and every single cheater be gone, but you guys know we can forget it.

    I never could understand how someone that cheats to succeed feels powerful. I just don't get that. I've stood invisible and seen 5 people gank 1 person, and then stand around telling each other how great they are. Its plain pathetic to me. Anyway, here's my suggestion make yourself powerful, then you don't have to worry if someone else is.
     
  45. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    I like that thing, but you need to get yourself an ice slayer from somewhere then pretty much anything good will work there.

    Anyway, I'm glad someone else has knocked that much off a weapon because I look like I'm lying here.
     
  46. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    I understand the math.
     
  47. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    My wife and I played from the first. We mined 100k ingots in a few weeks to buy the keep we still have in fel. They sold for 5 each. We wouldn't pay the guy 550k for it rofl. Things did used to wear out, but they didn't used to cost 200 million gold.
     
  48. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    nah but it sucks pretty much seriously. It's not even as good as a sorceror's suit which I use on my I don't even know 15th best mage or something. I'm not trying to be mean or anything that's just not a very good thing to make so its not representative of what I'm talking about.

    You wouldn't even believe the stuff we use now if I started typing it in.

    I was just talking about weapons anyway. I completely missed the boat on jewelry. Excellent jewelry will be made.
     
  49. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    I keep my sashes in my backpacks almost ALL of the time. It's an excellent example of what I'm saying, but on rare occasions they are really nice.
     
  50. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    imbued items can be repaired normally right? they just can't have powder of fort applied to them, is that correct?