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Discussion in 'UHall' started by frostbolt, Jan 25, 2013.
This item revamp isn't going to break existing suits and items is it?...
I would imagine so
People wanted changes. Changes come with changes.
Think of it has having to mod your gear as you have to when the latest high-mod artifact starts to drop. You'll wind up with something more powerful.
I doubt they're going to really nerf existing gear that much, and I think we players might be blowing the whole thing out of proportion. I'm expecting things like "Halberds swing at 3s now" and "Plate armor gets an extra 50 imbue points" and things like that. (Or whatever.) Balance changes, not some utter drastic overhaul of the game.
Your favorite special move might get nerfed or something, but they're not going to come in and go "All leather armor has only 5 physical resist now MUAHAHAH!" while cackling like supervillains or anything.
I do expect a full suit rebuild and weapon change. I am now just collecting resources to remake all my suits and weapons when the change hits
Remains to be seen.
All we know is that with the armor revamp in particular they indicated they did not want it to break existing suits.
So unless they suddenly changed their minds this is, all of the random l33t3 things suggested in the other thread to the contrary, it's unlikely to be a major overhaul in say the AoS sense, and seems most-likely to giving some kind of additional bonus to metal armor (hopefully other than Samurai Plate which already has the resident mage armor property).
The weapon revamp to my knowledge nothing like that has been said, but it's a safe bet they know they have to walk on eggshells.
We'll see when they put the notes up.
The key point is "break existing suits." Any armor revamp is going to "break" suits and by saying this I mean currently everyone, caster, dexxer, samphire, whatever runs around in barbed leather. So if you think your current suit is going to 100% fit your character after the "fix" I find that unlikely.
The current system is broken and it I am looing forward to armors and hopefully weapons which will be more useful to one playstyle over the next.
I am fully aware of the potential to break or nerf existing suits indirectly, by making something else so useful that it becomes a must have.
And, no, not "everyone" runs around in barbed leather. (Think about that statement for a moment.) Many Sampires seem to still like Wood Armor, I still see Samurai Plate periodically, and more people than I ever would've expected have put together suits from random pieces from the new loot system.
Having said that I think we all knew this was coming because, shall we say, the variety at our fingertips wasn't being exploited as often as arguably it should be.
I think most of us will be happy so long as existing suits do not need to be changed to maintain effectiveness.
IT seems like if its going to even be worth doing its going to have to throw things out of whack. So long as the changes are good thats just fine with me. We can't just stop progressing the game because people might need to build new suits.
But it has been said
I just used the default settings.
Weapon Name STR Req. Base Damage Damage Speed Swing Delay DPS
Bokuto.................20............9 - 11 9 - 11 2 2.00 5
Gargish Tessen 35............10 - 12 10 - 12 2 2.00 5.5
Tessen 35............10 - 12 10 - 12 2 2.00 5.5
Assassin Spike 15.............10 - 12 10 - 12 2 2.00 5.5
Bloodblade 10 10 - 12 10 - 12 2 2.00 5.5
Dagger 10 10 - 11 10 - 11 2 2.00 5.25
Gargish Dagger 10 10 - 11 10 - 11 2 2.00 5.25
Gargish Kryss 10 10 - 12 10 - 12 2 2.00 5.5
(2-H) 10 10 - 12 10 - 12 2 2.00 5.5
(2-H) 15 9 - 11 9 - 11 2 2.00 5
Kryss 10 10 - 12 10 - 12 2 2.00 5.5
(2-H) 15 9 - 11 9 - 11 2 2.00 5
(2-H) 40 10 - 13 10 - 13 2 2.00 5.75
Shortblade 10 9 - 13 9 - 13 2 2.00 5.5
(2-H) 10 10 - 12 10 - 12 2 2.00 5.5
Boomerang 25 8 - 12 8 - 12 2 2.00 5
Bare Fists -- 1 - 4 1 - 4 2 2.00 1.25
I just used SPEED 2 and if you look you will see that the Base Damage are not all the same so DPS is not the same. Now are they going to up the BASE DAMAGE 10-13 (Short Spear) or are they going to lower it to 9-11 (Bokuto)? Are they going to make the Str. Req. the same? Is there going to be a difference between 1-h and 2-h?
Now we come to the part of the "updated various special moves" so now which did they NERF and which did they BUFF and which PLAYSTYLE did they base the update on, PvP or PvM?
The current system is so bad that I prefer an overhaul of EVERYTHING instead of going easy and leaving most of the problems untouched.
Some of the current issues are:
30 base resists on gargoyle platemail, vs 15 on regular
Wood giving interesting properties to weapons, with metals not doing that
Wood giving interesting properties and high resist to armor, with metal giving lower resists and no interesting properties
Metals such as Gold having lower requirements taking up imbue slots
Leather having everything metal has but being meddable also
The ease of getting all kinds of runic items, but metal high end runics being very hard to get
Metal armor being very heavy and having high str requirement but not getting any benefits for it
Dragon armor being completely useless
Samurai mage armor property taking up an imbue slot and leather not doing that
2 handed weapons having no additional damage over 1 handed weapons
2 handed weapons making you miss out on all the stuff that could be on a shield (15HCI/15DCI/190 Luck, resists, etc)
No reason to use the fast weapons as your extra swing speed will go to waste
No reason to use any of the slower weapons that you can't swing every 1.25 sec
Halberd VS Ornate Axe base damage and speed, and many more such cases
Bushido being mandatory due to the luck bonus you get with perfection - no alternative skills/systems for getting similar luck bonus
Bushido messing up your shield parry value
Throwing vs Archery
Armor ignore being the essential skill to bring to PVE, because high end monsters ALWAYS having crazy high resists (no monsters with high HP pool and low resists, for example)
Many of the special moves providing fixed amount of extra damage that doesn't scale
The crazy gear inflation the past decade - the original system never intended people to have all 70's armor with any extra properties on them (doom arties were pretty amazing originally) but now everyone running around with max resists and all properties they want capped out thanks to imbuing, insanely powerful artifacts and the occasional insane item with 100+ resists AND good mods from the new loot system.
Boy... I would be really excited if war maces and war hammers became weapons that you could actually consider using again. Those were my favorite weapons back in ye olde day.
While the idea may have had merit back when it was introduced (and that is a point of debate)- the scripting/duping of barbed runics made having an uber set of all 70 armor with mods possible. All imbuing did was really take that from the hands of the scripters/dupers and put it in the hands of everyone- imo.
As for the changes- I want to see a change from top to bottom- a re-balancing of everything. If it breaks my suits- so be it.
Then again, I'd like to see the 2nd whirlwind fixed in addition to everything else balanced.
I recognize that DPS is not all the same.
My paraphrase, and I thought I was clear on this point, was that this was what a team member had said was his ideal for weapon balance. That was the goal of the balance pass that didn't happen.
You're correct about Imbuing putting greater effectiveness into more hands.
Remember the massive duping of Valorite Runic Hammers and the great proliferation of Valorite Samurai Plate that resulted?
I in ignorance bought a lot of Samurai Plate, because it was really really good, only to realize much later what was going on.
OK you have a point there.
But inflation still happens. Imbuing made the 'rare' good pieces of the runic ara common. And after that, the developers found that loot was useless, so they came up with a new loot system which drops items which far exceed the power of imbued items. And artifacts have to compete with that, so they get higher stats too. In my opinion they should not keep increasing the total weight of the items, but instead have the same overall weight, but with unique or overcap properties on it (Like violet courage having 15 DCI). They do that on some pieces of course (animated leggings, berserker breastplate, hephaestus, compassion's eye) but those have pretty high item weights and thus no real drawback to them that original doom arties had (armor of fortune having bad resists, for example).
Without regular item loss (in one form or another) power inflation is sadly unavoidable. It's just part of the reality of the game now.
Guild Wars 1 was an example of a game that never inflated its item power since launch, and it didn't have item loss either. Yet still people wanted the new items, because they either looked shinier, or had combinations of stats that were not more powerful, but facilitated different types of creative character builds.
Well when the motivation for hunting is getting better gear, and when you can get close to the gear ceiling with out a ton of effort its going to make putting new things into the game harder and harder without increasing the power level as the years go on. Perhaps some games can strike some magical balance, but I don't think UO is really set up to do so.
Very comparable pieces, except the Resistances... even after the monster loot item were to be enhanced for the most possible total resist.. it would still only be 4/5/5/6/7 (barbed).
Based on my experience with the new loot system, The Gorget Could have spawned with resists like This: 22/24/23/23/23 (at max, Pre-Enahnced) so without a doubt you could get WAY better pieces from hunting things with the new loot system, but the caps sort of make it not so necessary to farm for such things.
Them Rings, Bracelets, & Splintering weapons... gotta keep something unique for one aspect instead of giving everything to one.
Crafting is OP ! lol ... because of efficiency...