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It's about time something was done about dismount

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Llewen, Jul 2, 2014.

  1. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Dismounting in pvp has always been ridiculous, and it isn't improving. And this is coming from someone who uses it a lot. It's just too easy to dismount someone, and when it happens in an uneven numbers situation, it is typically game over.

    My suggestion is pretty simple, make dismounting a melee skill that you have to "hit" with, just as you do a weapon. So when you chuck a bola, it checks your dismount skill, and if you make the hit, the dismount attempt succeeds. With weapons that have a dismount special you have to first activate the special and hit with the weapon, then a check is made against the dismount skill to see if the attempt succeeds.

    *puts on flame retardant suit* ;)
     
  2. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    My suggestion is more simple, learn and adapt to the game mechanics. Get a bonded pet, learn to time dismounts to correspond with a thrown bola, sync on the person tossing bolas, use your own bola/dismounter, use invis/teleport (or an item/pot with that property), etc. Problem solved.

    At the very most maybe make dismount parry-able (when it's a spec. move, not applied to bolas).
     
  3. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I'm pretty good at defeating all those things. Dismount the way it works right now, in my opinion, is ridiculous...
     
  4. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    No you arent.

    Dismount is fine.

    Bola's on the other hand should be able to be parried.
     
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  5. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Pathetic Idea, there are enough skills and changes already made to dismount, it is fine now. learn how to deal with it.
     
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  6. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
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    Llewen and his dread getting dismounted too much?
     
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  7. Spiritless

    Spiritless Seasoned Veteran
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    Getting dismounted sucks. That doesn't make the mechanic broken though.
     
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  8. Great DC

    Great DC Journeyman
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    the dismount your probably getting hit with is scripted, such are the anti dismount scripts against you, when they perfectly time hopping of their mount and immediately pop back on. This all comes back to nothing being done about cheats, thats all. Same story diff day. I like holding Rising coluses up and when i hit the ground out it comes. Most so called pvpers run immediately when they see RC.
     
  9. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Lol

    Are people really this delusional?
     
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  10. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Anticipation is everything... don't get dismounted, sometimes you can't help yourself, such is life... in UO.
     
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  11. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    I thought that dismount wasn't a factor when you sit in the GZ with a couple pets waiting to gank someone. Personally I never gave dismount much of a thought but I never needed to use pets to do my dirty work either.
     
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  12. James Moriarty

    James Moriarty Journeyman
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    Ninjitsu is your best friend. If dismounted you pot, to recover the damage you have taken then its simply bandie and hit animal form
     
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  13. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    I agree with OP, dismount is a bit OP.
    A player with 50 camping can dismount a player with 120 parry by using a bola..Hmm i think there is something wrong with this picture :)
    Parry and bush+parry should be able to block for dismount, be it with a bola or a special move.
    A bola should require 120 tactics to be thrown.
    I dont cry over beeing dismount ganked at all, i use it all the time..explo-bola-all kill-meteor strike..(most of the time they die)

    I'm pretty sure our vv focus group has focus on this..erhm...*cough*
     
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  14. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    .....what? That's absurd lol
     
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  15. Gedgerez Tesherd

    Gedgerez Tesherd Journeyman

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    Bolas & dismount attacks is not an issue at all. Mounts were only useful for maybe 2 or 3 screen lengths of running pre AoS, but now they have near infinite stam regen which is fine. What I'm suggesting is to block mounted combat entirely, as in no casting, ranged, or melee attacks while on mount, or flying until the user dismounts themselves off their mount/flying, or is dismounted by bolas & dismount special attack. This will also be a semi solution to 3rd party speed users, where as the user is A LOT slower on foot than mount. No more players mindlessly zipping on & off screen attacking by mount. No more mindless chasing 3rd party speed users from one point to zone clear across the zone by mount. Yet instead, if you chose to fight, then you should only be allowed to do so on foot thus removing mounted combat. Leave bolas, & dismount special attacks as they are.

    Bring back the skill in foot combat.

    Combat Foot.JPG
     
  16. CountSilverbow

    CountSilverbow Seasoned Veteran
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    a fully trained archer has to use a special move have full skill and still get the hit off to dismount..

    a pure mage with no skill and a bola can do same thing lol lol lol
     
  17. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    When I get dismounted I just fight my way through (or hide) and remount. If I die, I recover and get back in the game. Most games, particularly in PvP, there are obstacles and most of the fun in the game is about overcoming these.

    Now, if the real problem is getting ganked after being dismounted, then your problem is with the gankers, not the dismounting function.
     
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  18. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Aside from all the back and forth between tamers, dexxers, and mages, there's actually some good feedback here which I think everyone can agree upon. All in all, bolas should get a nerf. But I think the crux of the issue lies in the mechanics:

    If you're able to time a dismount to avoid a bola, isn't that kind of messed up for a balanced game? I mean, ok, nerf bolas, nerf whatever you want, but if you aren't going to fix legal mechanics problems, let alone speedhacks et al, then...yeah lol. So I'm in that camp, I really don't see the point of changing dismount. Moving shot, on the other hand, is one of the most ridiculous additions to the game. It's absolutely toxic IMO.

    Special moves in general are rather outdated. We're rewarded at 70 and 90 of a 120 skill. There's a lot to do there, and I'm not sure if the vVv is going to touch it as suggested in the thread, but it would be nice to see some kind of an upgraded system. I'd like to see a system which is a little more modern, and tied to timers rather than mana usage for weapon specials. The current way of how people can spam special moves does not make them special IMO. If the process of killing someone involves dismount, moving shot, moving shot, moving shot, or dismount all kill, there needs to be some hard measures.

    If a dexxer/archer can just spam specials to kill someone, something needs to change. When specials were introduced they were 100% random. A lucky dexxer would para lock someone. Then they were tied to stamina. The good ol' wrestle mage days, when roach mages roamed. Then they were tied to mana, which, in theory, should have limited dexxers/archers due to the necessity of STR/DEX over INT/MANA. Of course, add Elves with bonus mana, add tons of item mods post Shame re-vamp (and even before), and you have dexxers/archers who simply never have to worry about running out of special moves. Then again, one of the things which made old dexxers fun to play--old school Magic Resist--was also stripped, so I understand it isn't really a black and white problem, or that nerfing specials will yield in "the answer." Even so, you should not be able to chain four or more specials in a row, on four consecutive swings/hits.

    Tamers should not have the easy out of mounting their pet or logging out and back in to save their pet. I know the log out was to help people not lose their pets in case of a drop out, but it's game breaking. I started playing when people had no stable limit and could control an infinite amount of tameables at one time. It was balanced because our biggest counter was we could cast a moongate, and all of those tameables would go through it if they crossed in front of it while pursuing us. Simple times despite seemingly OP situations lol.

    If a player targets another player or their pets with his/her pet, the player's pet ought to have no-recall timer set in place in which the pet cannot be re-mounted again. Likewise, a player should not be able to retrieve their pet with log in/log out. Instead, have the pet pop back to where it originated upon re-entry to the game, not go poof. I'm sure there could be a way to exploit that, as well, but I'd rather a tamer have to make the choice. Do I let my pet die, or do I log out and take myself out of the game for five minutes until maybe it's clear. It'll still be lame to anyone other than a tamer, but it would be a vast improvement.

    As for mages, they're fine obviously. [Like I said, we should be able to agree bolas need a nerf, and give me a reason to not have a mage weapon (IE: wrestling being worth 240 skill points) and I'm on it). :D

    120 wrestling is a huge joke. First thing I'd say about wrestling is it shouldn't require HCI for hits. Maybe it should operate on its own combat system, like (Attacker's Wrestling) / [(Defender's Parry+Defender's Tactics)/ 2] = hit chance, on any Wrestling skill that's 100 or above. Leave special moves parryable, of course, but throw hit chance a bone. Do something to break the mage weapon meta. Eh, maybe the Wrestle buff would be too OP, but still. Something. Second, make this game sandbox again. Aside from true bosses, 120 wrestling deserves a fair chance to both para and disarm anything in the game.
     
  19. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    I think most people that have commented in here play dexxers so no wonder people are asking for bolas to get a nerf. I think it's fine that everyone has access to dismount. I think making it parryable would be fine too.

    Your rant on speedhacks and game mechanics is out of left field. When I dismount to avoid your bola...kill my pet. There's no unbalance/mechanics abuse there.

    I agree with your wrestle thing although not such a drastic change is needed. If they allowed specials to be held while casting again then you'd see a lot more mage diversity and people using wrestling.
     
    #19 Martell, Jul 4, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
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  20. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Actually, you'd just see the return of the Archer/Mage. Exp+FS+AI w/ Lightning+Velocity proc at same time on Cursed target, and the victim is eating dirt within 3 secs.
    The problem with Mage Weps, is that if you get Disarmed, you suddenly have a 95% chance to be hit by a Dexxer. With Wrestling, a Dexxer can never take away your defense, and you have the ability to take away their offense. Maybe make the "Special Toggle while Casting" exclusive to Disarm Punch/Para Punch.
     
  21. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    We should all know by now that at least 1 part of UO has always been, and will always be overpowered lol...every time they fix it or nerf it the next best template or special move is the new "overpowered" part. People just need to adapt and figure out the way to beat whatever is overpowered at the moment. For example if tamers are overpowered, just bring a friend with you when attack tamers, simple. The same applies for dismounts, if you believe dismounting is overpowered right now either adjust your template to be able to survive it, or bring a friend to defend you while your dismounted.
     
  22. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    LMAO wow , just WOW you don't want much.
     
  23. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    That'd just screw Melee. Without mounts, it'd take a melee even longer to get back on a Mage that Teleported, or to get away from a Mage or Archer when he's in trouble.

    With 120 Wrest and 0% HCI, you have a 34% chance of landing a hit on someone with 120 Wep Skill and 45% DCI.
     
  24. James Moriarty

    James Moriarty Journeyman
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    From a dismounters prospect, know your target! If a dismounter knows you have parry, wrestle and high DCI and the chance of dismounting is going to be hard, they wont target you. On the other hand if I know if my arrow of bolla hits you almost every time, then your my first target as a dismounter. My Parry mage is near on impossible to dismount the first time, so most of the dismounters don't target him for the dismount.

    So, as powerful as dismount is, there are ways to avoid being dismounted. It all comes down to build choice. If you know there is a few dismounters out looking for an easy kill. Go get a character that's impervious to the dismount and render their character useless.
     
  25. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    When has an archer/mage ever been a viable template? Also when does one ever get an expl+fs+curse off in the field without being disrupted? The answer to both questions is never...
     
  26. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    if you are able to heal through it mounted .. you can on foot. if your game is to run from fights and get off screen then i can see it getting in the way... and if it involves a gank .. ganks happen.
     
  27. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    A near 33% chance isn't really PvP viable. It shouldn't be like the old days when you could just make a healer mage or a roach, and dominate dexxers with special wrestling moves, but it needs a buff. The 120/120 = 50% rule doesn't really work for me.
     
  28. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Timing the graphics/sounds/etc of the game and dismounting your pet prior to being hit by a bola is still an exploit of a system, much like a PvMer (or PvPer for that matter) can exploit a firebreather by avoiding the breath (going out of range) or, for a tamer, making use of the breath (I don't think they've fixed that yet?). I don't consider it "cheating" like a speedhack, but I do consider it a problem for PvP balance, much like the designers didn't intend (I wouldn't assume) the use of pouches or crates to free oneself of a paralyze spell over using Magic Resist (before Magic Resist was gutted, especially). Your argument is the player meta is game design, hence my rant.

    I also mention speedhack because quite simply you can't get around it when thinking about tamers who PvP. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, I'm just saying, who hasn't been run down by someone with a cu or dread who is speedhacking? The point of my rant is there is so much to fix BEFORE dismount.
     
  29. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Mage/Archers were viable when you could toggle specials while casting. The only problems with them back then was getting good enough gear, mainly a good SC no neg bow, and having enough HCI/Stam to fire decently, which is no longer a problem thanks to Reforging/Imbuing. A Mage/Archer, has such burst, that they can kill someone with Exp+FS+AI shot while in Protection. Explosion+FS+AI+Hit Lightning+Hit Velocity all going off at the exact same time. Within a single second, you can go from 100% Health, to 10-15%. From there, it's just a Fireball or Moving Shot to kill. With the offscreen pre-casts of a "field fight", it's pretty easy to get that off.
    At least without the Special Toggles while casting, it takes some timing to get the AI shot off at the right time.
     
  30. OMG A GIANT ROCK

    OMG A GIANT ROCK Journeyman

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    1. Block a bola with a wall.
    2. Once dismounted run to a house and wall on yourself (east of the house or west) two tiles from the house and another wall on yourself one tile from the wall. Be a God of Walls and survive dismounts and win.
    3. Get ninja and waste 85 points instead of learning how to wall.
    4. You're one of the fastest people which only allows us to dismount you to kill you because you run away so fast.
    5. If you're crying about the "anti-bola" scripts, hit the bola macro then wait half a second to target the player cause then he will, if he is using a script, dismount then remount then your bola will hit.
    6. Another way to counteract the "anti-bola" script is to make a macro to say the bola swinging thing and that will "trigger" the script and he will dismount with no one bolaing :(
    7. Get better at pvp.
    8. Please.
    9. Complaining to trammies is a bad step to "help" pvp.
    10. Sincerely,
    God of Walls.
     
    #30 OMG A GIANT ROCK, Jul 6, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
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  31. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    Yeah, it wasn't a popular or op temp then and it wouldn't be one now. Casting curse+expo+flamestrike while in protection is an absolute joke of a combo. In protection the explo and fs don't stack and anyone would be able to heal/apple through that...
     
  32. Great DC

    Great DC Journeyman
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    Avoiding a dismount is easy when there isn't outside programs involved. But someone sleeping, dismounting, insta bola up and teleport four times before its thrown is the issue. Take those scripts away and bolas would be completely ineffective. I have tried to a set a macro to pull a bola immediately and it cant be done with legal programs. Just so you know who's cheating when you see it done.
     
  33. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    You're talking rubbish and just making things up. Scripts don't play a large role in pvp and when you spot someone using one it's very easy to abuse it.

    Also, just looking at your sig for the first time and I realize you're from DR on cats. If you played something more than dexxers in a real pvp guild you may learn how to set macros and use a bola effectively.
     
  34. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    Amazing so many posts how to avoid getting dismounted by a bola..
    So lets get back to the original question, im more or less ignoring all the useless posts about howto avoid getting bolad.
    So those who disagree that bolas should require fx tactics skill, speak up..
    Why do u think its ok that a player with 0 skill can knock a fully skilled warrior off his horse by throwing bolas at them ?
     
  35. Herman

    Herman Seasoned Veteran
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    Is it a trick question ?

    My answer is because it take 0 skill to ride that horse :) :)
     
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  36. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Because anyone can do it. I fail to see how something can be considered overpowered when it's free to all players. If you start restricting bolas to certain skills then it starts becoming unbalanced because only certain players can use them, leaving certain other classes empty of any means to dismount someone.
     
  37. OMG A GIANT ROCK

    OMG A GIANT ROCK Journeyman

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    Considering it's only possible to teleport two times before the bola goes off I think your logic is flawed my good sir. And the instant bola macro? Make a UO assist to dismount then target the bola? Then you just hit last target? Then you hit your tele macro and hit the ground twice. OMG SCRIPT OMG SCRIPT I'M NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO DO THAT MYSELF SO IT'SA SCRIPT THE WALL HACKS TOO OMG AND FIELD HACKS.
     
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  38. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I beg to differ..archer mages are STILL..quite sick to say the least! Just need to know to play them. I fully enjoy the curse off screen ex,FS+AI dead combo honestly..never mind the open field group fights of explosion curse double mortals..while your teammates sync ..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  39. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Yep. Anyone Cursed with 100-110 Health or below, is in danger of being suddenly dropped dead by a Mage/Archer running on screen.

    Anyways, maybe special consumable Saddles should be made for Mounts that give a chance to resist Dismounts, kind of like Gorgon Lenses. Higher chance to resist Bola Dismounts than weapon Dismounts, however using the special Saddle allows Lance Dismounts on you, with no chance to resist. Put a cooldown between Saddle applications.
     
  40. OMG A GIANT ROCK

    OMG A GIANT ROCK Journeyman

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    No to any "suggestion" about "fixing" dismounting.
     
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  41. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    Yeah, it's a fun template to play, but it's not op nor can you put out consistent damage. I guess you can get lucky and get off a quick dump on someone (assuming they don't know how to apple, heal pot, or off screen) but you also burn through mana and swing very slowly on a suit that probably has a hodgepodge of mods that will be hard to max out. To use it as an excuse for why specials shouldn't be able to be held is ridiculous. However, this isn't what this thread is about.

    No to the idea that a saddle, or any additional items/properties will bring, "balance" to pvp. No to the idea of requiring a skill to use a bola. If they made dismount parryable I wouldn't vocally complain about it but I wouldn't be thrilled with the change either.
     
  42. Great DC

    Great DC Journeyman
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    That is complete bs sir!. There is a timer once you hit the ground with just uoa. You cannot immediately pull a bola up recorded or not in uoa. I have seen four teleports happen several times, and three every other time. But then again your probably one of those people who exploit it so you don't want it fixed. Outside programs other then uoa are being used. You know the one thats like uoa but isnt legal. So please stop spreading bs!
     
  43. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    Post a video of someone doing 4 teleports and I'll give you my account. You're wrong, Zora is right. Keep throwing out baseless accusations though, it really strengthens your case.
     
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  44. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    can't you just setup a use item type macro for a bola ? in uoa ? im pretty sure you can.

    i use one for smoke.bombs on my ninja
     
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  45. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    There's bigger issues than dismount...I mean it's lame to get dismounted 4v1, as well as frustrating..but the chain mortals are much more lame than dismount..


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  46. Great DC

    Great DC Journeyman
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    lol that's zora. imagine that a known cheater saying it can't happen. ive seen bane do it with four teleports, im seen a few hi5 do it with three teleports. I don't waste my time screenshotting stuff. Just pointing out that the only people saying its not possible are the ones cheating and exploiting it. All wannabe pvpers with no skill and lots of programs
     
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  47. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    i don't pvpugh anymore due to living in the sticks.. with **** connection. but i feel i have a say... dismount has always been there. was something to be avoided.. or expected. a part of pvp.

    they always say if you can't beat em join em. just dismount back.
     
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  48. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    it takes them zero skill. but also takes you zero skill. adapt and overcome.
     
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  49. OMG A GIANT ROCK

    OMG A GIANT ROCK Journeyman

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    LOLOLLLOLOLLOLLLOLOLOLLLLOLOLLLOL. Okay. You're not the most intelligent fella :/. It is PHYSICALLY impossible to get more than 2 teleports off before a bola goes off. You can get 3 if you have a tele ring, but who would waste a tele ring to dismount you. It is even impossible to get four even with tele rings because those magic items still have to wait on the FCR factor but not the FC factor. Any pvper knows that you can't tele more than twice before the bola goes off, ask anyone. And any script physically cannot make your teleports cast faster than 2/6. Get your facts straight trammy and lose the tunnel vision.
     
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  50. Great DC

    Great DC Journeyman
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    So if none of the speeders help you why do you use them? LOLOL. Im done arguing with idiots. Keep telling yourself your not cheating, everyone knows what is used to make things happen. There is definitely no possible way to record a insta dm bola in uoa. I can prove that. So keep being a uo loser that doesn't admit to using something illegal.