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It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Llewen, Oct 10, 2011.

?

Is the cheating situation better or worse than it was before cheat detection?

Poll closed Nov 7, 2011.
  1. There is less cheating in both pvp and non-pvp.

    3 vote(s)
    4.3%
  2. There is less cheating in pvp only.

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  3. There is less cheating in non-pvp only.

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  4. There is no difference.

    58 vote(s)
    82.9%
  5. There is more cheating in non-pvp only.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. There is more cheating in pvp only.

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  7. There is more cheating in both pvp and non-pvp.

    6 vote(s)
    8.6%
  1. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    What do you think? Is the game cleaner than it was? Is it the same old same old? Or is it worse now than it was? This poll won't be perfect because there are too many possible answers, but I've tried to cover what I consider to be the most significant possible answers.

    And please don't take this as an opportunity to name names, point fingers, or troll. I'm just asking a simple question. I'm curious and I'd like to know what people's perceptions are currently with regard to cheating in UO.
     
  2. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    Same, i've seen no changes in game, it's been 100% ineffective.
     
  3. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    Are we counting scripters in this? Because they are being even more brazen these days.
     
  4. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    All you need to do is spend some time in any cave in Fel. You will find multiple scripters in a few minutes.

    As to PvP its seems to me pot chuggers are rampant as is speeders and stump hacks.

    The top pks are all cheating as it is as it has always been as it will always be...:gee:
     
  5. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    If non approved third party programs were not allowed, people would get banned for using them or something. Since they don't, I'm assuming it's no longer illegal since the law is no longer enforced.

    I know of one guild where using a certain non approved third party program to increase running speed and spell-casting is mandatory.

    (as a side note i would like to add that people do still get banned for unattended macroing)
     
  6. Korik Bloodguard

    Korik Bloodguard Lore Keeper
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    Nah, nothing has changed. In fact I watched someone script resist in luna yesterday.

    The anti-cheating crusade has had no effect. Unfortunately/fortunately though it won't ever have an effect. This game has had *the same cheating* in it for nearly a decade and a half, if it hasn't gone away by now, the developers aren't going to waste time on it now.

    I don't know how it could be any more obvious that it's not a priority.
     
  7. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    Is UOA not used by a lot of scripters? If it is then there is a difference between scripters and "illegal 3rd party programs" since UOA is a legal program to use. Sure there are other programs to use but a simple assumption can't be accurate enough to declare that it isn't UOA. But I think the topic here is mostly about speeders not unattended macroers.
     
  8. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    Uhm Llewen...what fantasy are you talking about whith this "3rd Party Cheat Detection?"

    Are you talking about Cal's imaginary 'spredsheet' from over a year ago or the aborted installation of Punkbuster?

    I DO remember Cal saying that there was some server-side only cheat detection (something beyond a packet sniffer), but since that would be a breakthrough in computing that could earn EA billions Im going to call BS on it (again). Unless a 3rd party program directly influenced the data stream from the client, there is NO way to detect it or the programs running along side the client without a resident spy program - which the ToS does allow them to do...

    We are the only cheat detection... But since we are also the enemy, we get ignored by TPTB.
     
  9. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    Actually, I've always contended that scripting was a far worse problem in pvp, and in other contexts, than "speeding" is. However, I have since become aware that certain illegal third party apps and services increase the movement speed of the character and spell casting - this is a huge problem. Character movement speed is capped server side, and I've never seen anyone move faster than the movement cap since I came back over a year ago now, but the faster casting is simply insane and provides a huge unfair advantage in pvp.
     
  10. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    Sure and to a sense I agree. However the topic of this thread is about illegal programs and I am fairly certain that much of the scripting we see if PvP isn't by the use of illegal programs. One reason UOA is fairly popular.
     
  11. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    But there is a critical difference between what you can do with UOA, and what you can do with the "illegal" third party apps out there. You can create quite complex macros with UOA, but your macros cannot contain "programming logic" such as conditional statements and variables. This means that while they can perform a series of even fairly complex actions, they cannot actually play the game for you, or respond to client events in the way that the illegal 3rd party programs can.

    You can't for example create a UOA macro which will auto chug a healing pot if you reach 20% health, or that is smart enough to realize that if you are poisoned or mortalled, those conditions need to be resolved first before you can be healed. Well written scripts can do all of those things, and much more and that is what makes them so completely unfair. A good script doesn't get fooled by "target fixation" or distracted by an ally calling for a heal.

    Now poorly written scripts can be broken down, but even those will generally outperform your average pvp'r at the tasks they are created to perform.
     
  12. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    That was my first thoughts as well. They've been saying they had something but couldn't release details, yeah right - but then, maybe that was the whole purpose of the poll, to see if there's been a perceived change, or not?
     
  13. Ender76

    Ender76 Journeyman
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    I miss Draconi at times like this
     
  14. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    OP, werent you told to be silent about this?

    Everyone wave your pom poms and say everything is beautiful. :danceb::cheerleader:
     
  15. Entheeya

    Entheeya Seasoned Veteran
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    No... I've seen no difference in many years....
    its the same old, same old....
     
  16. KingHen

    KingHen Seasoned Veteran
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    I haven't noticed.
     
  17. TBH

    TBH Adventurer
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    Great idea, let's be more concerned with banning more paying subscribers from this game. I guess you don't realize that most of the "scripters" have multiple accounts, sometimes as many as 10-20 active accounts, that all get banned thereby further reducing the revenue UO generates. UO should be grateful for every paying player it can get these days, especially with Diablo 3's upcoming release.

    The only players that should be banned are ones that participate in egregious acts like hacking the game or manipulating the data flow in order to speed up or slow down the game. Running a script to train up a player, loot a corpse you killed or gather a resource should not result in a ban from the game. We can't afford to lose more paying customers, the shards are empty enough as it is.

    Another thing, one part of UO that makes it so interesting is figuring out easter eggs, whether they are intended by the Devs or not. Look at all the rares in the game because of a glitch or error. The warning that UO is watching and will potentially ban those who participated in the "issues regarding the cleanup" is way too heavy handed. They should just fix the code and not bite the hands that feed them.

    There are several more creative ways to punish players without banning their accounts that would be in harmony with the spirit of the game, isn't Yew the town of Justice?
     
  18. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    I think someone just outed themselves....:thumbup1:
     
  19. TBH

    TBH Adventurer
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    O rly?

    Guess I shouldn't have named all my characters TBH.
     
  20. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    FYI there is no way to increase your casting speed. If we're talking about pvp the only useful cheat that is widely used is speeders, which allows you to move at server side speed, and thus also makes your spell pump faster. That said there are numerous computers out there that have manual overdrives and therefore you can get the effect of a speeder without downloading a program. But there is no cheat that allows you to move faster or cast faster than the game intends.

    As for scripts they are pretty useless in pvp. People complain about a cure or a box script but there's really no way to tell a script from a one button macro. I've heard people complain about a dismount script that dismounts you when someone readies a bola but that is just stupid and handicaps that person, as anyone with half a brain will simply ready a bola and then cancel it and you end up dismounted.

    I can't believe people are complaining about people raising skills afk either, i mean christ this has been going on for over a decade now. One can raise magery/necro/resist/eval/med/ss from 0-120 by simply using the uo macros (set space bar to last spell) and putting a stack of coins on the computer, or hit a golem or an animal to raise wep skills/bushido/ninja without using anything than the standard uo client. If they were so against afk skill raising don't make it soooooo dam easy.

    The only problematic cheat out there, in pvp, and people complain about those only because they can't run away from a fight, boo hoo, or they can't get their 5k from a kill, also boo hoo.
    As for tram scripters who honestly cares about people farming items/resources. Only a very small number of items are worth anything in todays market, and those usually aren't obtained through scripts, thanks to imbuing.
     
  21. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    - Sad to see Cal leave. But I wonder if he left the secret spreadsheet for the successor to chip away at..

    As a gamer I will always detest cheating in gaming. If you break the rules you are not playing the game you are cheating, you are just abusing the game and everyone else that is trying to play it; and in the end that is just no fun for everyone.

    - No vote. Until the Devs. feel the need to address the issue again, I feel no need to cast further votes about the subject. The collective has (and has not) spoken.
     
  22. Spiritless

    Spiritless Seasoned Veteran
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    Re: It's been at least 6 months since the implementation of 3rd party cheat detection

    Well, this isn't strictly true. There are server-side countermeasures you can implement which could in theory aid in the detection of those playing with high levels of automation.

    Scripts are flawed in that they are often too perfect. They typically perform automation repetitively and with precision which is beyond human capabilities over lengthy periods of time. It is possible to log character behavior server-side and analyze trends and correlations to determine with a degree of accuracy who is performing repetitive actions through automated means; particularly actions related to movement or those which occur using logic-testing means, which are unavailable in "legal" programs. Sheer length of time performing such precise actions would be a give-away.

    Not saying EA have bothered to implement these things of course. Just pointing out that there are more possibilities server-side than just traffic analysis theoretically. It's not as far-fetched as you make out.