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It's FOTM time! Mysticism Tamer

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by [JD], Feb 17, 2010.

  1. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Yes it's Flavor of the Month time........ introducing the Mysticism Tamer! Huzzaah!

    The way I see it if you're currently or considering building a Magery based Tamer, you should strongly consider Magery+Mysticism instead as it adds more functionality while losing little. See template below!

    120 Magery
    120 Animal Taming
    120 Mysticsm
    120 Focus
    110 Lore
    110 Vet

    The beauty – and key - to this very solid template is that Focus, which is the ‘eval int’ of Mysticism, also doubles as meditation. This frees you from the burden of spending points in it. Raise your hand if you’ll take Stamina and Mana gain over just mana? *raises hand*

    Focus does regen less mana per tick than Meditation, but the key here at least to me is that I’ve never really taken Meditation over 100… and 120 Focus that high provides nearly the same mana regen. Add in JOAT meditation, a tweak to the skill allocation, or skill items and the difference becomes even less.

    Let’s examine the rest…

    Magery gives you the ability to use mage weapons and all the utility like recall, gate, invis, greater heal.

    Mysticism (& focus- put that in for you anal retentive types) provides spell damage, extra utility in the form of cleansing winds, healing stone, etc. And how nice would it be to summon a Rising Colossus instead of needing to worry about a throw-away GD when pet hunting? Badass.

    120 Taming/110 Lore gives you 99% control over even Dread Warhorses, plus extra stable slots.

    110 Vet gives ya more stable slots and better pet healing.

    I have a PVP version which uses some skill items to build in 100 resist.

    There will be small changes, such as Explode-2ndspell combos. However you gain the instacast from Myst. So far I think you gain more than you lose...

    I'm excited to go home tonight and persue this avenue. My only thought though is that Mysticism would actually be better paired on a Necromancer, cause Rising Colossus + Wither = juicy goodness at a spawn. So would I want to work myst up twice? Hmm... we'll see! ;)
     
  2. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    i switched to necro/tamer last week... and totaly loving it.

    used to be a powerless peacer...used to be scrolled to 120..and still failed on greater dragons...and it was quite useless during champs and the new narvey...so decided to drop it for spirit speak (my back-up heal ^_^ ) and necro.

    Can't imagen squeezing mythicism into my already crowded template tho...
     
  3. kinney42

    kinney42 Seasoned Veteran
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    Myst on a tamer? That surprises me. hmmmmmm
    What spells do you actually cast from Myst during normal PvM play?
     
  4. jeza

    jeza Journeyman
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    Well I like that idea a lot !

    Just with all skills at 120 as soon as I'll hit the 720 skill points cap.

    With cleansing winds no more need to squeeze 30 or so chiv skill points for remove curse :)

    And sleep could be used instead of peace.If it works, mass sleep is sure better than area peace !
     
  5. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    sry but i complety fail to see any uberness in that template..
     
  6. kinney42

    kinney42 Seasoned Veteran
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    I agree.....The 2 skills (myst and taming) just don't go together at all....

    I just don't see any benefit that Myst has over magery for a tamer. The only real reason to use myst in PvM is the Colossus...and using a spell to summon a temporary 5 control slot, uncontrollable creature is kind of the complete opposite of what a tamer does. Why would you want an uncontrollable Colossus over your actual pet/pets?

    Don't get me wrong. The Colossus is freakin awesome on my mage but seems kind of a waste of the taming/vet/lore skills if a tamer casts one. Heck it's so good I am even messing around with an Archer Mystic character to see how it does. Still training her.

    If you read the spells for Myst....most of them are pretty terrible for PVM. All of them are useless on a tamer. Ditch myst and get eval. Make your magery spells better. magery is a better skill as a whole anyway. There is just nothing Myst can do that magery can't do better. Except for the Colossus. That thing is freakin awesome.
     
  7. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    What you seem to ignore is that this build will not ditch magery, it will use magery and mysti. Just change Eval for Mysti and Med for Focus.

    The spells that benefit a tamer the most in in magery spelltree is the once that dont ned Eval. Invis, Heal, Cure, Summons, Bless etc etc.
    You more or less trade the direct damage spells from magery and replace them with the full aresenal of Mysti.

    Healing Stone
    Purge Magic
    Sleep
    Spell Trigger
    Mass Sleep
    Cleansing Winds

    I done really know what kind of effect sleep has in PVM but all the others sure are a good benefit for the tamer. That my POV anyway.
     
  8. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    Not to be a ***** or anything...but the build is still a fail, compared to what spellweaving/chiv can give.....
     
  9. kinney42

    kinney42 Seasoned Veteran
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    You are right, I am ignoring them. Because almost all of them suck for a tamer.
    Healing Stone - who the hell wants to bother taking something out of thier hands, losing the benefit of those items - to use the stone when I can just cast Greater Heal?
    Purge Magic - Completely a PvP spell. Doesn't help the PvM template here.
    Sleep/Mass Sleep - ok, Maybe I can see a use for this. Help keep MOB's off your pet when it is getting eaten.
    Spell Trigger - Same as Healing stone.
    Cleansing Winds - Maybe it's me but do I care if my tamer has a curse on them? They aren't being attacked by anything, and if they are, I invis and let the pet handle the situation.

    Myst just isn't worth the skill points for a tamer.
     
  10. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
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    The cleansing winds would also, I believe, remove mortals on your pet so it has a place. With that said, I agree, I'll keep med and eval. Quite frankly, my mage tamers don't just sit there and heal the pets, I use them as MAGES....I cast damage spell along with my pets efforts. My pets and I working together deal far more damage than just the pets alone.
     
  11. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    I would. I allways have a hand free anyway to use pots. You can allso make a macro to disarm, use pot/healthstone and rearm.
    Its stupid not to use potions.

    And now to the bolded part.
    The stone is instant use - Greater heals have a cast time
    The stone doesnt cost mana when used - Greater heal costs mana
    The stone cant get disrupted - The greater heal can.

    ......

    Yeah cause you can only cast this on your self?
    Its used to remove Mortal for example. I personaly belive that this one is GREAT for a PVM tamer. Makes Miasma Even more piece of cake then she was before.
     
  12. kinney42

    kinney42 Seasoned Veteran
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    Pots just simply aren't required for a PvM tamer. Your pets do the work. You shouldn't be targeted if you are doing it right.

    So 240 skill points so you don't have to wait the .5 seconds and use the 8 or less mana to cast a heal and make killing 1 creature slightly easier? That is way to high a price for what an Invis can do by itself.
     
  13. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    Same goes for a lot of things then.
    LRC - Not needed you can cary regs.
    Resist - Not needed you wont get hit.
    etc etc

    If we are talking about min/maxing you should use pots, otherwise your not maximizing your potential.

    Well if you really are ******** enough to only find 2 spells in a mysti spellbook maybe its better for you to make a bush archer with a Yumi.

    Those 240 points give you a arsenal of spells and utility.
    MR to begin with.
    The spells i listed in a previous reply as well.
    Direct damage spells as well.
    Stamina regen for odd occations
    etc
    etc

    Im not saying that this is the best way to spend points but "The 2 skills (myst and taming) just don't go together at all" sure is a false statment.
    So is the following:
    "If you read the spells for Myst....most of them are pretty terrible for PVM"
    "All of them are useless on a tamer"
    "Ditch myst and get eval. Make your DIRECT DAMAGE magery spells better" Yes only your direct damage spells.
     
  14. jeza

    jeza Journeyman
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    I completely agree with this and specially with the DIRECT DAMAGE point.

    It's very probable that the magery/eval/med template is more efficient than the mage/mystic/focus one when you want to help fighting the mob doing damage on your own.

    But the beauty of the tamer is that you can have a very diffrent way to play.
    I'm a peace tamer, I obviously NEVER do any direct damage to the mobs I fight.
    Doesn't mean that I don't do anything except saying "all kill", I heal, I manage the crowd, I stop the battle and save my pet before he dies when needed or I just peace the mob to allow my pet to survive the fight when it's possible and I try to avoid to be aggroed and killed while doing so.

    But with only magery, peace and 25 skill points I managed to squeeze for chiv I don't have a lot of ways to heal from a distance, or heal myself, or remove curses without failing, or save myself when a mob ignores my pet and goes after me if I'm unlucky enough to fail to calm it and have no mana left.

    And that's another thing, I have only my armor mana regen and no stamina regen at all.

    So I see this template as a very good alternative for my peace tamer while keeping the same play style.
    Specially if, as I hope, sleep is a good substitute for peace.

    So it's not a template that suits you, it's not the best choice for an "agressive" tamer, OK I can see why you think so and you're probably right.

    But say that it's a waste of skill points or a useless template is wrong.
     
  15. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    just accept the fact, that mysti/focus, arent really that great on a tamer.
    Having 120 magery on a pvm tamer, without eval is a fail.
     
  16. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    You fail. Your asuming things, not stating facts.

    Please tell me in what way Eval will be better. Untill you do, you havnt really said anything nor brought any valid info/opinion to the thread.

    Your probably only trying to raise you post count. :next:
     
  17. jeza

    jeza Journeyman
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    ROFL :lol:

    So you're saying that all the bard tamer templates are are a fail !

    Hey that's probably why those are on the top 3 tamer templates, people are all nuts and prefer to play with bad templates....rolleyes:
     
  18. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    This might be true if all you are going to do is hunt ettins, but plenty of the more difficult mobs in the game will target switch, and many of the more challenging pvm locations and contexts involve very heavy spawns. If you are never in a situation with your tamer where you are targeted, you aren't doing anything challenging.

    And beyond that I can see sleep and mass sleep utterly rocking for a pvm tamer. The sleep spell works a bit like peace, it is a very powerful spell in my opinion.
     
  19. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Wow my little thread has generated quite a roar.

    first off this thread is not to say the Mage/Myst/focus tamer is the best build for PVP, PVM, or anything... it's just to announce that there is a new build which makes a lot of sense. What you should go with as a tamer would really depend on what you plan on doing with your tamer.

    Second of all, saying you will be nothing but support using a template like this is ********. There are nukes and AOE spells in myst. You can be there nuking right along with your pet, or you can take an active support role. It only depends on your own playstyle.

    120 Magery and no eval is not a fail, it affords you all the support options, and the ability to use mage weapons for defense purposes. Obviously if you don't care about the ability to be defensive and use a mage weapon and DCI you probably wouldn't need magery past GM. I of course do not mention this because I leave it up to someone to know enough of the system to determine how to tweak best for their own needs.

    I could not possibly go into every minute detail of why I chose the skill amounts I did, and they are open to tweaking by the reader according to their needs.

    I for one think this is a very new and cool type of build. My current tamer is an eval mage tamer, but I see this as a totally viable alternative in which I will gain additional abilities and yet still have nukes available to me for damage output.
     
  20. kinney42

    kinney42 Seasoned Veteran
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    I do challenging stuff! I'm just good at keeping my tamer's butt out of the fire!
     
  21. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    I spent 2 hrs on TC1 last night and built a toon with this spec just to see how it worked. Here is what I found

    Damage wise, the Mysticism nukes are equivalent to their mage counterparts.

    You have Nether Bolt, Eagle Strike, and that Boulder stun thingy. They compare to their 1st (Magic Arrow), 3rd (fireball), and 6th (Explode/Ebolt) counterparts when it comes to damage.

    With 120 resist spells (and no armor because I did not have access to a full 70 resist suit nor did I want to spend time imbuing one), resists were listed at 44 across the board. Nether bolt and magic arrow did around 9 dmg, fireball and eagle strike did around 18-19 dmg, and explode/ebolt and the boulder one all did (from memory) around 35-38 dmg.

    Damage wise, those spells are equivalent but use different damage types and have different effects.

    With no EI, curse and bless were still usable and lasted 30 sec each at 120 magery. Curse will still be viable for pvp combos

    I attempted testing damage on the AOEs but I was unable to AOE myself with any of the magery or myst spells, even in Fellucia, out of town. I'd probably need a test partner to do that.

    I went and tamed a greater dragon on my toon. When it bonds next week I'll take it to a spawn and get to check out how the AOE's work

    As for mana regen, I did not notice the loss of meditation at all. My mana regen was more than fine with 120 focus.

    Overall my impression was that if you are in to single target nuking, Magery is your bag. But Mysticism also has nice nukes (though not as many), aoe's, and adds a lot of other cool, useful stuff too which can expand the dimension and abilities of your toon beyond "all kill" and "nuking".

    When I get time I will play around with it more.
     
  22. shulginist

    shulginist Guest

    I have 120 magery with no eval on my necro/tamer and can assure you it is definitely not fail :)
     
  23. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    Read what i wrote, not what u think i wrote ?
    I stated having 120 magery without eval on a tamer is a fail...Where did i write having barding skills is a fail !?
     
  24. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    I think u try to increase youre post counts...did u FAIL to read that i stated u get more out of chiv/sw on a tamer, than mysti/focus ??

    I stated, Having 120 magery on a pvm tamer, without eval is a fail.
    must have hit the wrong key, ment pvp :p

    getting 120 magery on a tamer with eval is mainly for pvp, if u need 120 magery because of the greater heal/mage weapon, then u clearly are doing something wrong.
    Let me state it again for _PVM_
     
  25. jeza

    jeza Journeyman
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    most bard tamer templates have

    taming, lore, vet, magery, music and one barding skill (peace or disco usually) up to 120

    So they have magery and no eval
     
  26. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    See what you did there?
    You just quoted my reply and took it out of context. I was replying and quoted you when you said that its fail to not have 120 Eval if your using 120 magery and that my friend is wrong.
    I know LOTS of succesful 120 magery templates that dont use eval and if you think about it and swallow your pride so do you.

    Here is what you said:
    And i replyed to your false statement. Cause you are wrong. Its nothing stupid about not having eval on a 120 mage char.
    Could you please list Your Taming, Chiv, SW, Mage eval char? That sounds stupid to me, or at least more stupid then many of the non eval temps.
     
  27. VorteXPete

    VorteXPete Guest

    While my toon is no tamer,he has magery with no eval and i can,t believe what im doin damage whise:
    magery 120
    mystic 120
    focus 120
    spell weaving 120
    music 120
    discord 120 with jewels
    med 55
     
  28. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    never even thought of a debuffing bard discorder who nukes. you must do some serious dmg my friend

    does discord work in pvp?
     
  29. VorteXPete

    VorteXPete Guest

    No disco for pvp...i bet if u could it be way too powerfull.But for pvm works great for increasing damage,get hit less and summons don,t get dispelled as easy.
     
  30. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    Has anyone tried, if 'You seem to anger the beast' breaks sleep?
     
  31. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Wow, that's a really good question.
     
  32. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    If it doesn't, don't post it here publicly - lol

    I'll try it tonight on tc1

    Edit: Didn't seem to work on TC1 but I was trying it against regular dragons, maybe their resist was too high and the Sleep wasn't lasting long enough
     
  33. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    I think you guys are forgeting the main reason most of of love UO, Sand Box, You are not limited, you can do or be just about anything you want. Sure some template are more effective, but the beauty of trying out new builds is finding cool new combinations.
     
  34. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Yep, yep, yep, and AMEN! ;)
     
  35. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    Get over it my friend, just because i made a typo, you make a huge deal out of it... false statements, intresting choice of words, it still dosent change the facts, thats its your'e pride this post is all about...

    U really think, anyone who reads thise boards believe that a s clever guy like yourself, with over 1700 posts, could't figure out i made a typo ??

    And just because you, the allmighty know someone who runs whatever template with 120 magery without eval, then its a fact and prove of koncept that its the best thing ever !?
    Go ahead and live that dream, i wont stop u.

    Let me put this nicely, I said you would get more out of chiv/sw than mysti/focus... We are talking about 240 skill points(120 focus+120 mysti) can do compared to alot less chiv/sw..

    Try and look sw up on stratics, it is very cool, gift of life..think u would love it :)

    Please tell me where i stated i had a tamer/eval/sw/mage ??
    Let me help you alittle on the last question, i didn't..

    I do have a provo/sw/chiv/tailor/tamer char. But because i was successfull in doing ratchamp with her, dosent make her the template of the month. But it was alot of fun doing it..
     
  36. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    myst/focus vs sw/chiv isn't really a good comparison. focus acts as meditation so it would really be focus/myst vs. sw/chiv/med - 3 lines.

    someone might not have room for 3 lines in their template so mysti would be a great fit there; ditch med, get focus, add myst for dmg/utility.
     
  37. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    The weaver tamer:

    120 Mage
    115 tame
    110 lore
    100 med
    55 chiv
    120 weave
    120 vet

    It's +20 points but works really well. I like the idea of myst/tamer though. May try switching mine over. No EI gets annoying sometimes. :D. I also really like gift of renewal, word of death, and wildfire. I may experiment with TC tonight and see what I can do to keep weave and add mystic. I know the chiv can be completely replaced.
     
  38. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    You might be able to do it but it would be seriously item dependent, or you would need to forego 120's in some skills. Here's how I could do it

    140 Magery - (114 Trained, 26 from jewels, can use 1-handed -20 Mage Weap for DCI)
    120 Taming - (89 Trained, 5 from Birds of Britannia, 26 from jewels)
    110 Lore - (105 trained, 5 from Birds of Britannia)
    84 Vet - Enough to resurrect - (26 from jewels)
    120 Mysticism
    120 Weaving
    120 Focus (94 trained, 26 from jewels)

    The deal here though is that you will have so many mods on your jewels you'll have to have 2 sets.

    One set of jewels will be +26 Magery/Taming/Focus, plus 2 other mods of your desire (DCI, LRC, etc)

    The other set will have the +26 Vet, +26 Taming, +26 Magery and you only equip it to res your pet.

    You could drop Magery a bit or weaving to 110 but you don't really have much wiggle room with this template. Still, it's possible with creative use of items.

    I came up with a similar build for a Necromage Weaver Tamer, which would be a seriously powerful combo. Utility and mage weap from magery, Wither, Wraith powered infinite Words of Power.
     
  39. scarecrow73

    scarecrow73 Adventurer
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    I understand its not for everyone, but I enjoy being different then everyone else and this IS a build I am trying in Siege, but in a prodo shard one could try:
    Taming 115
    Lore 115
    Vet 110
    Magery 110
    Myst 120
    Focus 120
    Weaving 120

    Total 810

    This could be accomplished with a character with 720 skill points, jewelry with 13/13/13 tame/lore/vet each and either fc or fcr and a book with +15 magery/spell amage and any other mod they choose. Skill jewelry isnt expensive and +15 books are not exactly rare... Use a suit with 100%lrc and each piece with 1 MR andall 70/75 resists also cost little.
    I am on siege and im still a long way off from being finished but I enjoy the character so far. I guess its to each thier own.
     
  40. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    just to revisit this thread, i have been running with like 97 myst and 100 focus for a couple weeks now. its not optimal but its all i can afford due to a messed up spec and having crap for gear.

    have enjoyed it quite a bit. as a tamer here's what i've used it for

    the 3 nuke spells are nice as they have different resists than the mage ones. i used eagle strike on a tough but energy vulnerable boss...

    cleansing winds is a DREAM for a tamer.

    curse removal, poison cure, and a heal all in one.. i am in love! i removed arch cure from my bar. my only complaint is that its slower to cast than cure/arch cure. im in a non optomized suit right now and only have 3 fcr. no fc :/ so its hard to use in between poison ticks, but i could use cure pots for emergency cures. and i will eventually work on a nice tamer suit for myself. but holy cow this spell turns miasma into a CAKEWALK. miasma was so annoying before. i'd cure and then go to heal and poof, poisoned or mortaled again. no more, haha! its also good to keep your buddies who keep gettting into trouble from gettin themselves killed! (im lookin at YOU, TomTom!) :p

    i have enjoyed rolling around WITHOUT the greater dragon and being able to lay down a rising colossus to kill stuff. even at my low myst spec, RC can kill miasma. i need to cast it once or twice. i can only imagine how badass the 120 version would be. and it should be good for beating down tough future pets and then taming them.

    i recently started using the enchant spell. i was kind of dubious at it at first but i will enchant lightning and then when stupid low lvl stuff starts beating on it my greater heal wand procs lightning a lot with it.

    i was running around the abyss trying to get to the other side and inadvertently ran into the slasher of veils. oh boy that was fun! lets see i was at about 20% hp in a second or two. i was poisoned or something and stunned. cleansing winds would be too slow, and i forgot i had a shield on and so i couldnt pop a pot immediately. in desperation i hit my healing stone (or maybe it was a spell triggered heal stone, im not sure) and the thing kept me alive where i would otherwise have been going: oOoOOOOooooo

    ive tried spell plague, and i was all jazzed about it but it doesnt seem to do a whole heck of a lot. maybe its better for PVP? anyone got more info here?

    i tried sleep but it only worked once on mobs and then they seemed to be immune. so its more of an "oh-sh*t" type thing i think, or for pvp.

    i haven't played around yet with protection+stoneform

    my myst is not yet high enough to use nether cyclone, the 8th circle AOE spell. i imagine it runs circles around meteor swarm, so im lookin forward to checking it out.

    mana regen is noticibly slower with 0 med. but again i only have 100 focus, and im in a crappy suit with barely no mana regen. once i fix these things it'll be much better.

    overall i like mysticism a lot for a tamer.

    once i rework my gear and can get my spec so that i can afford 120 myst/focus i'll really see how it works.

    if i dont end up liking it ill prob stone taming, lore and vet off my toon and turn it into a mysticist weaving mage, because myst is so good...

    ill then move the taming stuff to a gargie and start over.
     
  41. Demoquin84

    Demoquin84 Guest

    Worst comes to worst you could always turn him into an Artificer if you dont have one already. Since Imbue would act like Eval.


    I am torn between making said Artificer/ Mystic Mage Scribe or keeping my Necro mage (or turning him into a sampire) I dont really need 2 magey types and i dont have room for both
     
  42. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    i'd tell you to stone and play with it for a few weeks and see how you like it. i played on test for 2 hours and got some ideas. but thats not the same thing as playing it for a couple weeks and seeing how you really like it

    im not sure if ill keep it in the long run but damn i sure love it right now. i just hate the fact its pushing my re-gearing of myself up in terms of importance... gotta get a new suit made bc of the mana regen issue