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Its time for a much needed change to the facets

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Sneaky Que, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    It's about time UO had another Fel ruleset facet! In fact, all facets other than Trammel need to be made Fel rulesets. Tram was a terrible idea and has been a proven failure, but I realise that it's too late to remove it from the game now. In light of the spectacular failure that the Tram ruleset has been, all other Tram ruleset facets (Ilsh, Malas, Tokuno and Ter Mur) need to be changed to Fel rulesets.

    There is however an issue that prevents an immediate ruleset change for Malas. Tokuno and Ter Mur. That issue is obviously houses. As such, a 6 month waiting period should be implemented on those three facets so that people with houses there have a chance to move to Trammel if they wish to continue living in a Tram ruleset.

    This leaves Ilsh, which as it has no housing, is ready to change rulesets immediately! Of all the Tram facets it also suits the change more than any. Ilsh's wild feel and sense of lawlessness would only be enhanced with a change of ruleset. The spawns there could also be upgraded a bit so that the champs ALWAYS spawn as paragons. Feluccans love a challenge more than any other UO player, and having to take down a paragon Rikktor etc while fighting off other players would be right up there. The rewards the champs drop would be buffed to draw people into doing them.

    Anyway, the main point is that Ilsh must be changed to a Fel ruleset asap!
     
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  2. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Come to Siege.
    We got raided by two reds in Ilsh just an hour ago. :)
     
  3. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    My ping to Siege is 1029ms. No thanks hehe. Anyway, Siege and Mugen (which at 437ms is better but still way to laggy for PvP or even PvM) need to be changed into full pre-Ren shards with all that entails. Britannia (Fel) only (no other facets), no AoS item system, no 120 skills, etc etc...
     
  4. Zeke

    Zeke Lore Keeper
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    Go play a free shard.
     
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  5. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Creating Tram saved Ultima Online from being closed down due to players leaving due to the PKing rampage going on. Origin had to stop that lethal bleeding away of paid accounts of players not having fun due to the PKing or just shut down the game due to to few customers and throw away all the time and money they had investing in making this game. They chose to give all those customers leaving somewhere to go besides a different game, and made Trammel where paying customers could have fun playing Ultima Online.

    People pay for a game so they can have fun themselves, not to be fun for others (PKers). Origin had to give most of their paying customers somewhere they could play the game as more than prey for the PKers, and so Trammel was created. and every land addition since has been trammel rule-set. They realize most of their customers are not into the PK/PvP scene.

    Trammel was a great idea.
     
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  6. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    Yeah, all we need is another empty land
     
  7. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    Tram is by far the worst thing EA/OSI ever did. It permanently made the game a million times easier and less exciting and cost UO tens if not hundreds of thousands of players for ever.

    Before Tram, UO's population was rapidly increasing, which smashes the argument that the Britannia ruleset (what we now call Fel) was damaging the game. The truth is that UO's subs only started to decline AFTER Tram was introduced, though to be fair it wasn't straight after. When Tram was introduced a huge number of players quit straight away or in the months soon after, while a new group of players started to join the game in their place. These new group of players are commonly known as Trammies.

    While many Trammies did join the new game that UO had become (make no mistake, UO before and after Tram are two VERY different games), there wasn't enough of them to continue to sustain the raise in population that the Britannia ruleset had achieved. Other "Trammie" MMOs were released in the years following and UO lost it's unique appeal to the Trammies and many left, while potential UO players chose to play other games instead.

    EA/OSI's UO had a uniqueness pre-Tram that they gave away for good. The proof of this is the enormous amounts of players who still play in the Britannia ruleset "elsewhere." These other places have populations that not even Atlantic can match.

    However, I will finish on a positive note and say that even though Tram was such an unquestionably bad decision, it is a credit to UO that even after such a terrible change it still remains the best MMO out there by a very large margin.
     
  8. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    Sorry no, I pay good money for multiple accounts here.
     
  9. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    I wasn't suggesting the creation of a new facet, just a change to the existing ones...
     
  10. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    It "saved" the game temporarily, but removed the 1 thing that made UO a more unique game than its competition. we will never know how many people we lost because of the tram change. Im speaking not of accounts lost at the time, but over the past 20 years. theres tons of games with rulesets like UO now.

    Just looking at it this way:
    Say UO would have lost 80 percent of subscibers becuase of the PKing.
    That remaining 20 percent still may be 3 times more players than we have now in the games current state, most of which may have remained or not "given up" on UO never to return.

    All im saying, is that instead of capitalizing on a niche market, UO chose to go with mass appeal with lots of competition. Competition that has caused the loss of magnitudes more "trammy" players than pvp style players.

    It was probably a good decision at the time, without the broader picture in mind.

    Anyway thats what ive always thought about UO. Its sad what its come down to today, originally so raw and uncut. Not many classic games are like that and they definitely lost a huge portion of players because of it. Did they gain more than they lost? probably 15 years ago. but not now.
     
    #10 Smoot, Feb 17, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
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  11. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    Yeah, you think the masses will flock to Ilsh or malas if it has the fel ruleset because fel is so much more successful than trammel. Really, anyone can see how popular fel is -like I said, all we need is another empty land.
     
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  12. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    That's where most are lol..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    There's not enough active players to even call it "flocking"..more like a trickle.

    And if there was something worth doing..people would trickle in

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #13 cazador, Feb 17, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
  14. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    That's nonsense. There's a phrase you need to learn: "correlation does not equal causation." That's your first error. Your second error is a simply erroneous claim, because UO's subscriptions peaked in 2003. By your login, UO's decline can be blamed on the introduction of customized housing.

    I have to doubt you were around all those years ago. UO's growth was not "because" of non-consensual "PvP," but rather despite. Is a new, bad restaurant's growth in the first year as because of slow service, or is it because word had not spread much, and people were eager to try a new and trendy place? Similarly, UO's growth was largely churn, specifically many who started an account, then quit within a month or three because they couldn't do the fun things shown on the box. What fun to try slaying a dragon, only to have six Dreads kill you and proclaim "u sux" What fun to get PKd chopping wood or mining! Even at banks, people hid because of thieves. Guards originally did not return items, so it was common for a thief to steal, run as far as he could before getting guard-whacked, and have a partner loot the item. Whether or not that was your idea of fun, it's not what most people wanted to pay $10 a month for.

    Time and time again, I have to point out that free shards do well because of the price, not because it's the kind of game people want. Do you need me to draw you a supply-and-demand graph?
     
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  15. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    It's always amusing to read Designer Dragon's old posts fighting against the concept of a PvP switch, many on the old Usenet group for UO, and how he had to concede to what players wanted. This isn't an exact quote but summarizes his spin: "DD vehemently denied that this change had anything to do with the recent release of Everquest." All I know is that so many "Trammie" types couldn't say goodbye to UO fast enough, because even if a realm had somewhat ugly graphics and very different gameplay, at least they wouldn't spend two hours fighting monsters only to get PKd, then another hour earning money to replace the lost equipment.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!s...mputer.ultima.online/53ZE11iRhT4/fLDA0Hk5FcEJ
     
  16. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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  17. Spock's Beard

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    Ahahahahahahaha.

    Like, is anyone here actually serious?

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Trammel got added, Felucca emptied out so fast it practically caused a sonic boom, subscribers increased, and the game enjoyed a long healthy life. The general population never ever went back to Felucca no matter what, Siege Perilous continued to be empty, and every new PVP MMO created to "recapture that old UO magic" was some kind of obscure flop.

    The End.

    You lost.

    Deal with it.
     
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  18. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Pretty much this.... Someone is living in a dream world I'm guessing they miss having lambs to slaughter.

    Truth is most the players give a **** about PvP.

    Every attempt they make to "force" lambs to the slaughter like Powerscrolls ....... doesn't work. Why? Because we all know that the whatever will eventually come to trammel to be sold. No need to go to Fel. As for the new VvV stuff a few sold but for the most part ..... no one is buying it or selling it. Another flop. Sure I'd like to have some of that stuff. But like 99% of the rest of the folk I'm not going to Fel to PvP myself points to get a set nor am I going to pay some Fel Punk 800 Million for a set of the tiles and banners either. Yet another failed attempt to bring lambs to the slaughter for the Fellies.

    Even if they built a shard that was all Fel rules but still had the regular insurance and everything else of any other shard we all know that it would be just as dead as Balhe..... Which is by far one of the most ghost like shards.... Why? Because Lambs aren't going to the slaughter and they won't. I don't care what sort of shinnies you put there it's NOT happening. IT will NEVER be like the old days because back then there was no choice of avoiding getting slaughter other than the one folk were making EXTREMELY clearly to the DEV's and that was stop the slaughter or I QUIT.

    Do I find PvP fun and exciting... occasionally when it's an even fight. When it has some sort of meaning other than just to kill or be killed... when the outcome means something. Yes sometimes I enjoy it. Do I like working 4 or 5 hours hunting and gathering to have some punk come along and take all my hard earned work? NO. Do I like living in fear that I could lose everything I have become some jerk can kill me steal the key to my house and rob me of EVERYTHING I own. NO. Does that seem "fun" No. It's not fun. Do I want to have to wait till I have 10 friends on to go outside town and do anything NO. Again NOT fun. And I have another newsflash for you....... NO ONE GOES TO ILSHENAR NOW you think that's going to magically change because you make it Fel? HA! Lamest thing I've ever heard.

    What they should do ...... Is make a TRAM only shard. One that could get powerscrolls from ALL champs with no PvP but consensual style guild wars and arena's. I'm betting that shard would be the most popular shard of all.
     
  19. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    This would be one of the safest bets of all time. I'd pay the $280 for the transfer tokens for my two main accounts to be on such a shard.
     
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  20. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
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    Sadly i think the only answer to a lot of the complaints here is to do one of the of the following.

    1. Shard shut downs. I dont agree with this or think it would ever happen. However, it would force the remaining players to available shards.

    2. 4 new shards. East coast, west coast, europe, assia. With the intention of shutting down all the other shards. This option is still extreme and i dont think it would ever happen.

    3. Specializing shards. Give higher rewards for certain activities on certain shards. For instance Chessy could be the RP shard, where ems could focus on RP more than anything else. Atlantic could be the PvP shard, where champ drops were significantly higher as well as VvV. Great lakes could be the PvM shard, where Drops at boss spawns were significantly better. This would help like minded players find better shards for them. This option is probably my favorite. UO has long tried to blanket cover all of their shards with the same rules, and play. Obviously with the exception of seige. I would love to see more focus put into customizing shards for the mass populous of each shard.



    With that said, in the status quo your best option is finding a way to play siege more often. i enjoy siege from time to time, though i ping well on it.
     
  21. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    If the game did that I think I'd quit. I play on GL because that's where I grew up. That's where I know the "history" both of the shard through Seer and EM events, Global Arcs but more importantly it has a history of stories told by it's players, cities run by it's players, long time players that have remained loyal to GL's since the dawn of UO. I couldn't give a ***** what has happened on Atl, Chessy or any other shard they aren't mine. They aren't my home. What is important is the town I live in..... Newcastle Township.... and the city of Yew where most my characters "grew up". It has a very rich history on GL's. I wouldn't want to move to Chessy. Not only that ..... but like many I'm sure I almost quit UO shortly after I started after I realized that it would cost me over $200 dollars to "own" a house... That there was NO WHERE to place one house let alone the 10 I currently have on GL's. Pidgeonholing people into one shard from 4 or 5 is NOT a solution. If someone wanted to move to a more populated shard they would. We already have had people crying about overcrowding and where to place a house on Atl... I don't want that crap on my shard. I know an entire guild that moved to a NON populated shard because that's what they wanted. Just because you want more players doesn't mean everyone else does.

    Sure I'd move for ONE reason and one reason only.... the dedicated shard. But I am not giving up having my town. You know what you said in your post they already considered in EQ Landmark. Saying like minded folk would "group" together on their servers.... well it's been a YEAR since that day ..... you know how many such servers they have? Where "like minded" folk would group together? ZERO. That's right. People just started where the game put them.... there has been NO effort to group together at all. People pick a server based on a few things that mean something to them. When I started it was PING. Where I played was GL's because that had the best connection and people that were "nice". I looked at LS for about a day or two... but found VERY rude not very friendly folk and I switched early on to GL's. Where I've pretty much stayed. Nice folk.... decent connection.... and now I'm part of the history there. I wouldn't dream of moving.

    If they created something where you could say pack up your whole account..... where it saved everything from your house and on your characters and you could "port" that to a totally "new" bunch of servers that had dedicated playstyles maybe folk would "restart" and group up with other "like minded" folk. But there is one thing you might be forgetting. I love Yew. I'm sure there are other Governors of Yew that can say the same thing. Now you want me to compete for Governor with other Governors? All of whom share the love of the city that I have? The township of Newcastle is located just SouthWest of the Wrong Mountain.... you want me to give up that area because some other city was there first? To quit having my township to start anew on someplace else where it's possible 15 other groups might have had their own city? Why would I do that? Sure there would be more "more people" more RPers.... but the battle over lands would be ugly. The differences in playstyles from one RP community to another also would be vast. Not everyone wants to "start over"...

    If I were to completely start over where I live and how I am.... then I'd want to do so on a new game. I'd want a total real 3d UO. One built like EQ Landmark using the new Voxel Farm technology... Where I could place my plot anywhere in the ground, above the ground, half sunk, on the shore on a mountain..... what ever where ever.... Where when I chop down a tree for wood I actually chop down the tree.... where when I mine for ore's I actually DIG a HOLE... Where I can swim in the ocean... Climb a tree. Not some ancient overly pixilated 2d flatland where I can't do much of anything, my movement is severely limited and so is the design of my home.... and it looks like something from my old Super Nintendo. If I were to "start all over" at something.... I'd want to play something more modern. I stay with UO where I am because that's what I have enjoyed for the last 16+ years and I don't want to start all over. If I did..... I'd be playing something else.
     
  22. Claire Repair

    Claire Repair Adventurer
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    ...Subscribed UO back in 1997 for the first time. Cancelled Subscription after several month of frustrating experience being a victim to PKs and loosing my hard-earned deer hides, collected reagents etc. to PKs.
    Ok. That was the game mechanics.

    But
    ganking, dryloot and... (that was worst) sh...talk, offence, humilation and constant macho nonsense killed the fun for me.

    I came back after they installed Trammel and I have been a happy subscriber for the last 16 years.

    And I am happy, that I can ignore all these chat massages like "Hey, you´ve just killed me but yor´re cheating", "You´ve just killed me, cause your ping is better", "You´ve just killed me, cause my grandma just farted" etc.
    This was adrenaline driven Teenagers comparing their ***** lenghts and spoiling the fun for the others.

    It was Trammel, which brought back serious gaming for ordinary people like me.

    Estimated $ 2000 I would have never paid to EA without Tram. Full Stop.

    *waves*

    /Claire
     
  23. MedeaDF

    MedeaDF Seasoned Veteran
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    Simply put:

    [X] No!
    [ ] Yes!
    [ ] What?
    [ ] Maybe?!
     
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  24. icm420

    icm420 Seasoned Veteran
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    I hate to say it but I logged on a free shard the other night and I saw more people at britain bank then osi has on every single server combined. Needless to say I already gave my **** away and canceled subs.

    Pre Aos style, full fel, lots of pks with slight adjustments to commonly used exploits etc at that time period. However in direct opposition of these claims that tram = win for uo.. 95% of these people are from original uo and hated the trammel change. So if a free shard in that era is more popular then OSI has been for the past 5 years.. that has to say something about what people want from their game.
     
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  25. Spock's Beard

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    Freeshards have players because they're free. Meanwhile back in the commercial MMO industry, that hardcore PK bull**** has been dead and buried for over a decade. Deal with it.
     
  26. Ultimaholic

    Ultimaholic Adventurer

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    Exactly. I know where I play has a nightly population of between 400 and 500 consistently. This is also a pre-ren shard. No Tram and lots Vanq/Invul goodness!
     
  27. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
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    Well I think there are a bunch of main reasons, why UO is on its steady decline. Trammel ruleset is not one of those.
    - The one house per account rule. Created free house spots over time, devaluing existing houses, making it easier to let them lapse.
    - The WOW effect. This effectively killed a big heap of the UO population within the first two years after WOW started.
    - Ebay banning virtual goods sales. No longer your account was a financial value to maintain.
    - The not top level graphics. Even for a basically 2D game there are much better graphics possible. Each of the upgrade attempts failed to impress enough customers.
    - EA account management.
    - Subscription pricing.
    - Lack of marketing.
    - Complexity of new armor/weaponry, economy issues paired with cheating and more and more self sufficience may play also a role.
    - And far far on the end we may find also a few PKs who left due to Trammel introduction already before the real decline started.
    I assume I missed some reasons (like players left due to health issues or are not living anymore), but Trammel ruleset is definitively not a main reason.
     
  28. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    A pre-AoS shard would be fun. A lot less pkers around because the easy targets they love are all in Tram having fun playing the game.

    Start a character on all Fel rules Siege with no Hiding or Stealth and play a full PvP shard. I'm sure our wolves would love some more sheep to play with. :)
     
  29. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    I'd check your facts...
     
  30. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    *sigh*

    It ain't gonna happen.
     
  31. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Crazed Zealot

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    If you can get anyone in the current Fel, then maybe add something lol.
     
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  32. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    So by that statement you think if official servers in there current state go FTP all the free shard players would just all up and move back? I highly doubt it..why would you leave a place that has more updates, tweaks, GM's who actually ban for speed hacking, Admin's who actually design the game the way the "players" want..?? Because it's free? Make it FTP and add a classic shard with just Fel and Pre pub 16 rulesets and then maybe..won't happen so till then we can all just watch population dwindle further and further into the abyss..then you can all ICQ each other about the old days when you were governors of player-less shards, PvPers of dead champ spawns, and Gods amongst the few.. :thumbs up:


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  33. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    If there was anything worth a damn in Fel people would..ancient Powerscrolls? Nah no need I'll just go farm dead shards non stop and use my free transfer tokens.. What else does Fel have that Trammel doesn't? Id say nothing..how much gold can you make from PvP? 100k a week? Enough to buy 2 trapped boxes at yew gate!! Hope you don't die more than twice! I will say this again for the 80th time..when the PVPers quit for good..you'll have no one to sell your precious Legendary Pixels to. Unless of course you'll part ways with your Legendary Orcish Kin mask for the local traveling Role playing Orc for his measly 8 bloody gold coins he has looted from that nefarious Human NPC that has invaded his cave dwelling spouting "I will pay thee, for transportation to Trinsic"..because grinding the 100k hit point Bosses for PvP gear will mean so much when you can't give it away. Instead of making a stupid comment of lawl get players..try helping your fellow players who have a different playstyle in attaining new players with the same likeness. Man oh man do I remember the 40-50 man brawls at Buc's Den! They must have all just moved to trammel because they hated all that madness..wait no! They all freaking quit..!! Lol

    Trammel was invented for a safe haven to afk script mine in peace! Without the worries of that wandering PK. Now you can afk at your leisure in any facet! I sure hope these "brokers" capitalize for as long as possible...if gold gets any cheaper I'll be paying 150m for my handy dandy ethereal llama..

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  34. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    If the trammel rule set is such a failure, then why are the majority of players found there?
    And also why is it I hardly see anyone at all playing in the Fel ruleset areas?
     
  35. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    Creating a PVE only experience was not a bad move for UO at all. Hell, it's the main reason we still have a game to play.

    But in hindsight, the mirrored facets were probably not the best idea. What would have maybe worked a little better would have been creating new or converting old shards for PVE-only for those who detest PVP... But there should have been *zero* PVP on those shards... no guild wars, no duels, nothing. If you wanted PVP of any kind, you had to play the standard ruleset shard. No transfers to and from Standard/PVE rulesets either, of course (outside of the initial free transfer due to a new rulset being created).

    The system as-is just does not work for low population. And while merging/closing shards is something that really needs to happen, it never will. And to be honest, what I find annoying are the players who keep their accounts open just to hang on to housing. There are more houses than people actively playing UO, and that works against getting people to transfer/congregate in a big way... But on the flipside, people who pay for housing only is probably also a big reason that we still have a game to play.

    *sigh* UO is a hot mess, but I still love her.
     
  36. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    100k a week from pvp'ing? If that's the case, you're doing it wrong. I made 50k yesterday (before deaths, died twice), so it's definitely still profitable. Unfortunately, it's nowhere near as profitable as PvM - all the legendary drops, Minax drops sell well (as do Blackthorn items) = you make more in a few days of PvM than you can in a month (or longer) of pvp.

    On LS at least, I would love to have more people to fight. But all of the Tram players have no interest (when I was still Red, I twice ran into a guy in Fel who just straight up BOLTED at the sight of me. First time, the tamer he was with attempted to fight, but I made quick work of her dreadmare) + complain about the trash talk in Gen Chat (I don't know why, it's honestly pretty tame on LS for the most part. Atl's gen chat is 10x worse, if not more.)

    I would love to teach some of the players on LS to pvp, but as I said, they have no interest. It's more fun than beating on monsters all day.
     
  37. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Crazed Zealot

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    What the Hell was that about lol
     
  38. Spock's Beard

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    Blah blah blah. Look, nobody cares. You're trying to re-fight a war that ended at least ten-plus years ago. They added Trammel, everyone wanted to go there so bad that they uprooted their communities to do it, Felucca emptied out instantly, nobody ever went back, and the part where EA would somehow come to regret it just plain never happened.

    There's a reason you guys never have anything better to do than come here and beg a 20 year old MMO for concessions, or brag about how many players are sitting around paying zero dollars on some crappy freeshard. It's because the actual MMO industry has left you behind.

    I mean since players love hardcore PK action, surely there must be some other more successful game based on it for you to play, right? Oh there isn't? Wow, what a shock. Can't imagine why that would be.
     
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  39. Ultimaholic

    Ultimaholic Adventurer

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    The MMO industry most certainly has not left me behind and I think your in a dreamland if you think it has for anyone else. Playing UO is just part of my (and I`m sure everyone else`s)gaming repertoir (Firefall,TF2,Smite,Neverwinter,Atlantica and Archage to name a few) and yes I do spend my UO time on "some crappy freeshard" LOL . You sound either jealous or butthurt,which one I`m not sure.

    Either way I`m loyal to UO. I`m not loyal to some company milking it out with very little improvements. That whole screen size thing in CC is the biggest thing for me. Oh and don`t forget account (mis)management nightmares. Ridiculous. One thing you forget, freeshards are also F2P, so I`m still a paying customer in UO. Just so happens the official version of UO is not worthy of my dollars anymore. If it went F2P,thats a different story.

    There must be a reason why you have nothing better to do than come here and complain about people paying an almost 20 yr old MMO wants concessions or more for their subscription loyalty? I know you`ve already heard me brag, so enlighten us oh great one since you make yourself out like your somehow different from the rest of us.
     
  40. Spock's Beard

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    Nobody cares. The game is 18 years old and Trammel has been around for 15 of them. It's over. Let it go. They're never going to add more Fel land, Fel has been empty for 15 years. It's never going to change. It's over.

    Remember all the PK types going "UO is doomed, see you in Shadowbane!" in the immediate aftermath of Trammel? Where is that game? Oh yeah shut down in disgrace.
     
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  41. Spiritless

    Spiritless Seasoned Veteran
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    It's such a dumb argument when people come here shouting how "successful" Trammel is because "everyone immediately flocked over to it." Of course they did. It's easy mode. People take the path of least resistance. That's the nature of humans. That doesn't mean to say its introduction didn't harm the fundamental foundation of what UO was suppose to be about, though. The risk-free nature of the facet completely destroyed the economy and the concept of risk vs. reward. It was the day when UO stopped being a true sandbox, hard-mode game where you had to think and plan carefully how to get your gold and resources and became a free-for-all farm-fest against nothing other than a dumb AI which still to this day is optimized for dial-up users. If I added a stone in Luna which gave out a 1m check every time you clicked on it, I'm sure it'd be camped endlessly. It'd break the entire economy even further than what it is now, but hey it'd be successful, right?

    The entire game was balanced around the fact you were forced to play it in an often hostile environment and either band together to minimize those dangers or learn other ways of dealing with them. With that gone, you just have mindless drones collecting from a pool of endless, unfettered resources whose only "excitement" appears to be the prospect of getting more re-hued crap they add as "gifts" periodically. How thrilling.

    A lot of people don't play EA sanctioned UO these days because it's just boring and there's no challenge. There, I said it. This may be news to the eternal fanboys and older, bored housewives who seem to be the last remaining remnants of this game's population. The truth is though, there are much better games for PvM/E out there which are less confusing for new players which don't have completely broken item structures/economies (partly due to the unrestricted nature of Trammel farming). Those looking for challenging game play in a UO setting have already left long ago for freeshards which largely implement legacy rulesets without Trammel and typically have higher populations than official shards. Someone said that's due to them being free, but you can't explain their populations purely on that fact. People only play what they want to play and what they enjoy, free or not, and it's clear that a significant amount of people enjoy the UO ruleset of old regardless of the price. Furthermore, I'd actually say this argument is also indicative of the official UO being way too overpriced for what it offers these days in the current market.

    So what's left? Not much other than nostalgia and people continuing to pay the overpriced subscription fee to keep their houses up because they feel attached to them. The heart and entire purpose of this game was ripped out with the introduction of Trammel, or rather should I say the poor implementation of a PvE-only area, and the balance of the whole UO universe was broken overnight. A mirror, PvE only facet was devastating to the game and killed the prospect of UO having a small but healthy playerbase by being able to fit a nice niche in the current market with a true sandbox experience. Instead, those would-be and often once-been customers are now on freeshards and frequently giving their money to someone else through donations to keep them running.
     
    #41 Spiritless, Feb 19, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2015
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  42. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Crazed Zealot

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    With Ultima Online's second expansion in 2000 (yes, 2000) came a copy of the world, a facet called Trammel where non-consensual PvP was forbidden. Ever since, the current and former UO community has debated whether this was a brilliant or terrible move. Now we have the word from former Executive Producer Gordon Walton, who discussed Trammel on the Crowfall forums.

    "I regret some (but not all) of the outcome," Walton began, going on to explain that the rampant PvP was driving away over 70% of new players to UO. The creation of Trammel doubled the playerbase, but he said that it disenfranchised the hardcore PvPers who now had to prey on each other instead of PvEers.

    "I also learned from my UO experience that it's really hard to change a brand," he wrote. "Inherent in the UO brand was the fact it was a gritty, hard core world of danger. We were not successful in bringing back the (literally) hundreds of thousands of players who had quit due to the unbridled PvP in the world (~5% of former customers came back to try the new UO, but very few of them stayed). We discovered that people didn't just quit UO, they divorced it in a very emotional way. But we did keep more of the new players that came in by a large margin, significantly more than than the PvP players we lost."


    *Drops microphone and walks away*
     
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  43. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    If only we had some commentary on why Trammel was introduced from actual developers at the time. Oh... wait...
     
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  44. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Insurance and Trammel lowered risk all around. It was the first step to making UO the item based game, focused on what you own, and aquiring those items (with no risk of losing them) rather than pure gameplay.

    basically, i realize UO is not the game today that it was originally intended to be. The item game started with trammel. So anyone who complains about the state of UO now, with Atlantic prices and most good items in the millions, you can thank trammel / insurance for that path rather than a game focused on the gameplay experience and player interaction.
     
  45. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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    im having deja vu that I've heard this discussion before.....
     
  46. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    If they would eliminate the desolation in Fel, I'd be there more often. I can't for the life of me get desolation turned off despite the fact there are supposed to be ways to do it. The biggest thing I hate is that once you head to Fel on 2d, you're infected with the desoluation bug. Return to Trammel and eventually this bug will rear it's ugly head. You'll hear the Fel tone and everything will change to desolation.
     
  47. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    And those poor little PKers didn't want fights they might loose. They wanted easy to win fights so they could dance around in their armor and wave their big swords over the bodies of characters in regular clothing holding a shovel screaming "I pwned you!!! I kicked your a**!!!! I'm a big stud!!!!" and so on and so forth. Those experiences in Fel back in the UO:Ren and UO:AoS days I remember so well. A bunch of Bleeps...



    Those new arrivals didn't have the bad game experience memories to sour the taste of playing UO. They could now have fun themselves for their $10 a month, instead of just being fun for the PKers for their $10 a month.

    Call those bleeps what they actually were and are, PKers, don't keep insulting true PvPers. PvPers act like they have a pair and a lot of class, PKers don't. Two very different breeds of people.
     
  48. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    You are just full of what will be (and have been, I'm sure, I'm not gonna bother reading them) ideas everyone dislikes.
     
  49. Spock's Beard

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    And nobody really cared. Subscribers doubled, the game went on to outlive hardcore PVP crap like Shadowbane that was supposed to "kill" it, and that style of game went the way of the dinosaur. But hey, grats on those freeshards.
     
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  50. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    UO Stratics post of the year. Nailed it. :ten: