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Its time to revamp Champs.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by rareitem, Jul 27, 2011.

  1. rareitem

    rareitem Journeyman
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    Its summer, the game is dead, people want to play but there is
    no real incentive to do it.

    Make Harrower droping +30 stats PS.

    And we, all the Pvpers of UO will be so grateful.
    And we all, will have a damn great summer time doing champs, fighting reds or
    faction enemies in champ areas to get the skulls and spawn Harrowers trying
    to get that new superior reward.

    Just one +30 per Harrower , a little change in the game that will have
    a great impact in the game players activity.
     
  2. pgib

    pgib Guest

    I absolutely respect your idea of what is necessary for the game, but is it just what's dropped that keeps people interested in this game?

    What if instead of some new item the scariest pk would be granted the control of a trammel boss for one session? A player controlled Navrey. That would be interesting to kill.

    But I recognized that this may require extensive changes to the client.
     
  3. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    So, more uber items in Fel? No thanks.

    That carrot hasn't worked yet and has only helped to unbalance the economy.
     
  4. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I thought you meant revamp Champs like revamp Barracoon. You know.. like how he does nothing to retaliate against anything ranged. Maybe make him an archer with special moves :D.
     
  5. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I'd like to see a better drop for smaller groups doing a tram side spawn even the addition of power scrolls would be welcome.
    As Martyna said in her reply:
    That carrot hasn't worked yet and has only helped to unbalance the economy.

    I have to agree with her, 99% of all power scrolls are controled by a pvp player/guild.

    Even with it being a "FUN" thing to try to sneek a champ around them, its harder then it looks. Totaly unfair. These people dictate price an how many will be sold... with the binders you dont even see many in banks any more cause they make bigger ones of the smalls and go for the bigger $$.

    Try to find a +5 or a +10 of any given skill on a vendor under 10k... its hard.
     
  6. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    Yet 100% of the tram items are controled by a tram guild. Not once have I seen a sliter for sell by a Fel guild, or a Lavalier, or even an Orny. I don't think it is fair that 60-80 mil items only drop in Tram :gee:

    Wow look at how the tides just turned.
     
  7. rareitem

    rareitem Journeyman
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    After 12 years playing UO, killing MOBs is not fun anymore, if it is for you its ok. I just want some action, there is no people playing PvP at all, if any of you has a better idea to atract people to Felucca please share it with us. Faction system dosent work, the only thing that works is champ spawns.

    I dont care if some guilds control PS market , I dont care about people complaining because they saw a so awesome overpowered character and he is afraid to fight him.

    Do you know what do I care, I care that Im paying a month fee for a dead game and I want please some activity at least for the summer before devolepers go on holidays and leave us with nothing, we need a solution.

    The main goal of my proposal is to make people go to Felucca we pay to have fun in this game but PvPers tbh dont have fun for a long time, will a +30 Stat PS really affect other people playing experience other than PvPers?

    If you all look my idea like just a way to make people play so we can enjoy the game we are paying for maybe you understand me , a bit at least.....
     
  8. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    wanna make fel exciting, drop the faction arties, remove guards from yew fel gate, or
    make factions with chaos/order rules.
     
  9. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    remove guards from all moongates and all champspawn exits. Make it so a blue cannot be attacked in a town (I understand some people only do banking in fel even though they are blue so I will comprimise on this), but allow reds to be healed in town.
     
  10. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    No new players would come to investigate fel if there was no guard zones. Hell half of them don't even understand how the combat pvp rules work anyways. (that might be something you could create a tutorial on (Devs).) Most of the time new players are suck guessing what the rules are...
     
  11. rareitem

    rareitem Journeyman
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    Do you think that will make more people coming to Fel?

    Fel is xciting as it is but there is no point becasue there IS NO PEOPLE PLAYING.

    So maybe the question is, Why my shard is empty every day?
    Why the only game I like playing PvP is empty of PvPers?

    Factions is a bad implemented system. the only system that really works is champion
    spawns, that is the only thing that made for years people venture into Felucca, champ Power scrolls, but atm everyone has a +25 stats , there is no need to get more.
    No one can see that??

    Im not asking for changes in the game I just want to PLAY and it is hard to play ALONE is terribly boring.....

    I bet that if Harrower was droping +30 stat scrolls tomorrow , you will see loads of people trying to get his PS, I dont mind if I cant get one in years all I want is people playing so we can fight and play and enjoy.
     
  12. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Agree with Puni, removal of the guards at the gate is not going to increase the pvp, it will only remove those people who are there from fel completely. If you see that as a good thing then I guess keep on promoting it. Also I am ok with reds being healing in guard zones, so long as conditions are applied, such as the person doing the healing still goes grey and thus is freely attackable. Might be some other things I am forgetting but I am only setting up an example.

    I don't think +30 stat scrolls will increase play time amongst players, I also do not agree that removing faction artifacts will have the effect of increasing PvP. Faction participation because of the artifacts is not what is holding PvP back, number of players PvPing, number of new players who are getting into PvP (which is low, just look at Puni post if you need a reference as to why people don't tend to break into the PvP style of play, plus the over all attitude of some, or maybe even most of the PvP community.) And the mind-set of the people who are PvPing or attempting to PvP. If you are of the group of people who basically only fight when you have a bunch around, then you are in the problem area, this applies to all the blues who chill at guard zone and only "PvP" when they can offer a "helping hand" to a group who may not kill them when it is over.
     
  13. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Somone crying about fel PvP guild not participating in Tram spawns is a joke.

    Most of the "PvP" guilds on ATL have plenty of Blue players. That was / is one of the largest problems. Blues helping reds. Hell there is even a post here about being able to heal reds in towns. Sorry Criminal acts are just that CRIMINAL, and crime should not pay, game or not.

    :lol: The Carrots to fell are not working, have not wrked and will not work until they eliminated the tru failures of PvP. Scripting, bad game mechanincs (barding pets but not going criminal to player, Reflectc damage flaggin, etc.), and many more problems - FACTIONS???

    :mf_prop: So do not ask for more when you know it is not needed or deserved.

    And do not whine about not having people to play with or kill it is all your faults anyhow.

    If you lure a new guy to fel and just abuse him /her of course less and less will be so inclined to follow you.

    :gee:
     
  14. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I would be for revamping champs (and doom) but a +30 scroll is a bad idea. Stats are as high as they need to go. I really don't want to see the game become any more of an ever escalating power spiral than it already is.
     
  15. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Is this a joke?

    You have Power scrolls and that didn't work in leading the lambs to the slaughter and now you want something else?

    People will PvP because they want to not because there is some reward at the end.

    The first few years of UO all I did was PvP when there was precasting Tank Mages in what I think was UO's golden Area in PvP 1997-1999. Ever since they changed the system I have no desire to PvP anymore. It was an absolutely brilliant system and I feel for those hardcore PvPers who missed it because it was friggin’ awesome!

    Why aren't people PvP'ing droves if the system is so awesome and there is so much fun to be had?

    In the days of the tank mage they upped and changed the PvP system by implementing special moves, dismount, and utterly butchered the game mechanics because Warriors didn't think Mages should be able to wear plate, cast spells and carry halberds. As a result many people left and stop playing UO.

    Today the PvP lineage is all too transparent. The system as it currently stands is totally item dependent and you have people running scripts automating a fair portion of their fighting. Then you have speed hacks to boot.

    Back in the day 1997-1999 of Tank Mages a guy running around naked with a halberd and a bag full or reagents could kick the hell out of a group of 5+ more that were better equipped but didn't know what they were doing.

    If PvP was like how it was back in 1997-1999 I would suit up and come out and fight. I understand that is never going to happen but then you have what we have here.

    Clearly the idea of putting items hence ‘carrots’ to attract players can now be seen as faulty logic and if anything they should put Power scrolls into the Trammels spawn.

    I feel for you PvPers. I want to see the game do well in terms of both PvP and PvM but the constant tweaking and changing isn’t good.

    One thing that is absolute rubbish is this Trammel vs. Fellucans. All the PvP’ers and Feluccans have PvM characters (Blue characters) that they are free to go run around Trammel with and do spawns.

    I find it hard to swallow that some of you guys have 5-7 Red Characters on each slot. Point being Felluccans have access to all of the game whereas the Tram élites have no desire togo Felucca and get slaughtered and therefore do no have access.

    This is another thing that baffles me: Why would you want to lure players who have no idea how to PvP to Felucca for an easy kill?

    If you’re a real PvPer then you want to test your metal against the best players out there not against the weak and inexperienced.

    My points are that there is something inherently wrong with the current PvP system and that if the PvP system is as good as it was in the past 1997-1999 why aren’t players flocking to partake in today’s PvP?
     
  16. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Most of this post is not entirely accurate, I mean....really, the comparison in number of players alone could account for the discrepancies, don't forget the fact that that "era" only had one land mass, thus driving the players more close when there were a ton of players to begin with, compared to how now we have far to much land mass and less players.

    I am not saying the system right now is "wicked" or any such thing, simply saying the old PvP system would not draw a crowd any better today than the current system does, everything ultimately revolves around the players, for example "leading lambs to the slaughter" That statement alone shows why no new people are in PvP, it is also one of the lead causes of the whole landmass situation we have now as well.

    I have to say using the "Every Fellucian has a blue character" argument is just rubbish, every single player of tram could just as easily go to Fel, and most shards don't have "massive" Fel guilds to really compete with their counter parts in tram, so to say that the tram players could not organize enough to finish a champ spawn is slightly silly, they simply do not wish to, they could have very good reasons for it or it could be as simple as the "dying factor".

    In any case you are not entirely wrong but to take some stances on issues is not particularly relevant. I agree PvP is missing something, but that something is players and players of a mentality over 9 years old. New people are not going to just start PvPing because they think it is fun to go and get killed x-1 X representing any number higher than 1, they also need assistance in learning the system as it is not the same as the ease of fighting an AI that is...well, less than intelligent.
     
  17. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    agreed. the top scroll (magery) sells for 10-14 mln. A 25 stat 5-7 mln.
    the majority of the scrolls trade for nothing.

    there is no reason for anyone to goto fel other than the fights now.

    imagine the screaming if the dev's put a dread mare spawn in fel. i say dread's because there best use is for pvp.
     
  18. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Total garbage both posts.

    Felucca guilds do just as much spawns in Trammel as any other player or group with their blue characters.

    Utter nonsense.

    If BS was snow I'd be in a blizzard!
     
  19. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    This is also utter none sense seeing as how ANYONE can enter fel. It works both ways, only Reds are restricted to one area. To say it only works "one way" is quite ridiculous, their posts are as legit as the one complaining about power scrolls being in fel only, sell one of those drops you been hoarding and you can afford 4-5 of any powerscroll.
     
  20. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    i think the ONLY revamp that they need to change on champs is when you get raided or raid, the people who started the champ should still get a chance to get a drop.

    ive raided alot of champs and i have gotten raided as well and it sucks to work it all the way up to a champ to have some zerg team jump in and take us by 5 to 1 and then get all the scrolls and possibly the drop while we get nothing, specially if it was my valor that started it... this should be changed.
     
  21. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    I don't know the last time I have been able to do any PvM in tram ruleset. I have 1 mage who is red, 1 archer who is blue, but not made for PvM, my crafter, a tamer in progress, and a skill holder.

    Can you please inform me which one of those chars can solo Slasher or Medusa like a samp or wammy can?
     
  22. Myna

    Myna Guest

    aye, and how much slithers etc drop compared to ps .... *yawn* .... at the end you make more money with ps than with a slither, which barely drop ... some people will never see one drop in their whole uo life ...

    and ps are needed ... a slither etc. isnt really needed at all .....
     
  23. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Your archer can solo Slasher in Wraith form with a composite bow using Armor Ignore.

    Bottom line is you guys who ***** and moan about Tram élites have blues and have equal access to all of Trammel.

    I'm willing to go out and a limb and say 90%+ of all the UO player base doesn’t have 5-7 REDs filling up their characters slots (maybe a few guys in all of UO do).

    The reality is there is nothing impeding any players from farming whatever they desire in the Trammel rule set.

    The difference in Felucca which apparently some people aren't able to grasp is you’re not dealing strictly with AI anymore.

    I really don't have a dog in this fight as acquiring power scrolls isn't an issue for me but the argument put forth by some PvPers about equal access regarding Tram élites and Feluccans is totally fallacious.

    All Feluccans are both Feluccans and Tram élites. Where the Tram élites (which seems to consist of the majority of the player base) choose to remain strictly in Trammel because of the repercussions of going to Felucca.
     
  24. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    12 years......well, then you know as well as I, and many others, UO is what YOU make of it. Depending on others, or the devs is weak sauce.
    I pay a monthly fee too, but I'll be embarrassed as all hell if I posted on here that I was bored.

    Just quit, or quit griping.........
     
  25. Dorinda

    Dorinda Seasoned Veteran
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    I dont believe champs should be revamped. The solution is to entice people who have retired from UO to return. I believe a few simple additions and changes to the game could accomplish this task.

    1. Champs should start dropping powerscrolls for poisoning; 110, 115, and 120.

    2. Cure potions should have timers to equal or succeed 60 seconds.


    3. Raise the price of subscription to $22.99 a month.


    These additions and change will populate UO.
     
  26. Well said madrid ... I too of late have been thinking the same thing "something inherently wrong with the current PvP system"
    and pretty much for the same reasons.

    C&D? you are just wrong ... the players were NOT "driven together" ... they were Penned into the same small area. Major Difference in premise.
    At the first opportunity, the "NoN-PvPers" FLED and subsequently >prospered<

    Population size is inconsequential re: landmass. "The" Population value >always equals ONE population<
    A percentage of which is: one fractional part PvM and the remaining complementary percentage of PvPers = 1 Population
    { 4/5ths + (0.20 or 20%) = 1.0 population }

    Fel is DEAD (atl too! {compared as c-n-d offered re: one facet days} .... which percentage appears to be larger?

    If PvP was Half as decent as madrid >properly described<
    IF PvP was Half as decent as ^^that ... THEN the possibility of a 50-50 bell curve could be obtained
    what was >missed< was the qualifier (if is merely a juxtaposing "conditional") ... the qualifier is the word decent
    which also covers the state of the game at that moment: it was NEW and still under exploration
    ICQ was the elite communication channel, anything faster than 56k was a cheat
    The TOWER that I played from with its cd-drive(ro) and 5.25 & 3.5 floppy drives ...
    well
    Alla that would fit in an >icon< on my smartphone now (HTC Mobile Phones - DROID INCREDIBLE Verizon - Overview)
    and it would be a conference call on my blue tooth for "party commands" not this new fangled thing called vent.
    (would fit in an >icon< IFF the game developers could have bought a clue or whiffed a HINT of where UO could go ... speedy worked on it, so, the idea was out there)

    That too was a part of it ... the NEW smell and feel and the uncertainty of the outcomes ...
    It was as much the newness as it was its simplicity that informed AND formed the "feel"
    and the naivety and the hope and the promise of >that era's< "belief" that good could triumph over evil
    and being honorable and "just" >would be enough< to win some small corner of "victory" that you could claim as your own ...
    That is just a little bit more of the "decent" that madrid described ... again:

    (I will add to this)

    If you’re a real PvPer then you want your next opponent to >walk in< (not be lured in) and thump his chest and say " Lets get Medieval, let's go, Now ... pop a gate "
    Even if you were on your mule, A real PvPer would size him up at a glance, and either pop a gate OR decline (mules could fight back then)
    decline and "feel" no "loss of honor" or "shame" ...
    after all a TRUE PvPer that >the game was designed for< was ALSO a half-assed role player
    and MOST respected a players RIGHT and Obligation >to remain in character and consistent to that character< and IF you wanted a "better" fight ...
    you'd RP your mule stage left and log onto your main and return ready to get AND be pretty sure to get, a challenge and a tussle ...

    STILL in good humor on both sides, and likely to converse and compare notes after ... now?

    pffft! lambs to slaughter is an anthropologically correct assessment

    A true PvPer (of course, it is a foundational thing in all martial theories) STRIVES to NOT DIE >foolishly<
    Leroy Jenkins is the proof to that point
    Now if it is not some lamb being cornered at a choke point ... its like two Philadelphia lawyers negotiating a pre-nup for their trustfundbaby clients
    Laying out terms and conditions and exceptions ... *spits*

    Damn! I didn't realize until I keyed it ... THAT is part of the "inherently wrong part" OF the current PvP too much talk talk talk
    NOT "cleverly improvised dialog" ... equivocate and wheedle and jocky for some small advantage ... neither WANTS to be "the lamb"

    The Lambs don't want to be lambs ... damn ... once they get what they truly wanted(scrolls) ... they wise up and do - not - get - lured - again
    The NOT FOOLISH lambs do - not - get - lured - again ... see how that glove like /// fits as an explanation?
    See the truth in madrids assessment?
    The OP is asking for a fresh set of bait
    why?
    Because, while he may "want a fair fight" ... he wants the fair fight to come to him and not make a lamb of him
    A True PvPer >wants to die< ... expects to die on occasion ... A True PvPer would like to see if he can learn a new trick to >overcome<
    ADAPT to ...

    I just returned to my home shard (shifts convo to next term) ... Oh... my god ... the desolation (not the graphic) more empty vendors and empty slots >everywhere< than a "new char" could survive in ...
    well ... first impression wise ...
    I was thinking of rolling an embuer ...still might but the "grand design" is scraped ...
    there were a total of like 15 scrolls available for purchase in ALL of the greater luna metro area ...
    >might< have been moved to another spot ...
    so, I'm still on walkabout to get the lay of the land. Brushed past a few of the old RP guilds ... they are thriving, smaller but _having fun_ events(theirs),
    so I could probably work an alliance to acquire any scrolls I might need for the new char ... but it is likely that I'll re-template towards a 7xGM and let them find me ... the hermit in the woods ... gonnna have to place him "nearby" to BE discovered ... o'well ... back to drafting a new "story arc" and see how it plays out.
    Working title will be "Joplin Rebuild"

    Or "Recovering from the slaughter of the lambs"
    This current crop of PvPers ... HAVE clear cut and sucked the shard dry BY their selfish unconcerned addiction to a fight ... ANY fight, ANY chance to "win" to pwn!:party:

    Well ... *rolls sleeves up*
    Plenty of open space to work with, check.
    try to "re-build" the old system? ... nope, didn't "work"
    What to get from "new design"? hmmmm ... need more data ... see whats available to try.

    *rubs hands, checks library card, note pad and books, coupla dozen pens ... *
     
  27. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Drop insurance and don't use any blessed items if you want excitement.
     
  28. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    power scrolls are a felucca only item, learn to pvp or stay in tram, and yes although i almost never pvp anymore cause i got so bored of it, i agree with the OP change champ spawns some how to give more incentive to do them, i used to be able to spawn all day every day, its just boring now, but definitely do not ever allow scrolls to be dropped in tram, you all had 13+ years to learn how to pvp, not my fault if you didn't want to, there needs to be items in the game that you have to risk getting killed over to obtain
     
  29. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Totally agree. UO hit its peak after Tram was added, well technically AOS. We can't ever go back to those days, not without a substantial loss in subscribers.

    Don't get me wrong, I wish they could do something that would generate more interest in Fel or PvP. I hate to say it, but if I want PvP, I hit up EVE Online.

    I do think if they could raise player populations, that it could help a great deal, but it would still require a massive effort.
     
  30. :scholar: and wear lots of white/wool and go: bahhh bahhh bahhh !!!:thumbsup:
     
  31. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    your previous post was a bit long to quote, I just wanted to say that you took my statement wrong. I was saying simply that there were more people PvPing in a more confined area than there are today, I was not trying to be all "classic" or anything, just saying we have ALOT of land and a very few players compared to when the person I quoted was saying the "best time for PvP"
     
  32. Annnnnd he was talking about the SKILL set
    Where tactics were in the players hearts and >Minds< and not a scroll on their character as yet another item
    or item slot MOD on their weapons, jewelry and/or armor ...
    not to speak for him, I'll gladly defer to HIS correction ... that is just how I read him.

    Annnnnd the POINT >you missed< and seemingly continue to
    He was talking about "people whom WANTED to PvP" True PvPers
    Your statement doesn't "bring forth the truth" that >A LOT of those< PvPing at that time ...
    were doing so MERELY out of desperation/Survival ...
    given the choice ...THEY LEFT ... yes? no?

    The correct answer is Yes ...
    EVEN before there was a split ...
    those not liking >being sheep< continuously being sheared and re-sheared
    in spite of ANY preparations they might lay in ...
    They Left >the game<
    and took their money with them ... their subscription money
    the actual "life blood" of the game

    Their exodus... was in sufficiently large numbers
    That the "management" side Named it "churn"
    and saw the Danger it Represented ...
    not only did they see that as a danger
    (gonna start >losing MONEY !!!! < ahhhhhh!!!! *flailing hands*:redx:) ...
    they laid plans to slow/prevent it
    And so was brought forth the moon named split
    Technically awarding the "homeland" TO the PvPers
    which remains a subject of much debate to this very day
    who pushed first and started IT? he said he heard her say that she had heard some friend KNEW ..............:talktothehand:

    The math remains the same though
    >ONE< population made of many different members, of differing inclinations
    >no matter the size of "the one" <
    first held in a single containment ... also known as a Behavioral sink.

    :sleep2:
     
  33. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Riiight, because if that happened people would have 4 or 5 suits ready to go after the first one got looted? Anyone after their first death would be sitting in a house naked w/o any items on. Yeah... farming stuff for a whole new suit probably wouldn't take long at all... it would only take that long before you could get into the fight again.

    Terrible idea.
     
  34. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    IDK I am a stat "hog" I just love stats Im gona sign this one!

    As stated the plain and simple truth is we will get a short term boost in activity. For a few weeks T2A will be molten hot with activity. The oaks spawn might even be a daily for some guilds. But long term your gona see it peter out to right where it is now.

    I am all for a cycle approach to fel champ rewards. If done right it will hit gen chat every time a new cycle comes through. Make it random ya know..like resources are. Sometimes a few days sometimes a few weeks. No guarantees and every now and then a new reward that was not announced. Maybe something that has been named in past patches but ya know new, to circumvent the patch screeners!

    Maybe a 30 stat scroll cycle might drop in every few months. Thats what PvPers thrive on. The unknown!
     
  35. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Have you given any thought to how an extra 5 stat points would affect the already impossible task of maintaining balance?
     
  36. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    I rather they change it so that you could actually see if anyone is doing any particular spawns in Felucca.

    This way you could see more pvp actions and raids going on.

    Maybe something like this:-

    Trammel spawns:- [total 6 scrolls per spawn maximum]
    0% chance get 105 or sot for fighting spawns
    99% chance get 105 scrolls (for fighting champ; cannot protect)
    1% chance at 110 scroll (for fighting champ; cannot protect)

    Because if the rate for 110 scrolls set too high, it will give the farmers a very easy way to combine the scroll from 110 to 120 due to crazy farming.

    Felucca spawns:-
    Same rate and rule as now.

    Have a crystal ball or whatever for people to view, like status showing which spawn/or even harrower is currently advancing in candles


    I hope UO change to this method for more activities. Therefore, people do not need to search for 10+ spawns everytime and every 1 hour per day.... This is just a waste of time and really reduce the fun for Felucca.
     
  37. rareitem

    rareitem Journeyman
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    As someone mentioned in previous posts Fel elites are Tram elites too, when my guild decided to get Slithers we went Tram got 4 Slithers plus a lot of Medusa statues, floors ( that we sold for good money :) )

    If anyone finds that killing Mobs in Tram is fun I have no more option than respect his likes, but for me the experience was extremely boooooring, hitting a stupid AI MOB for days is not fun for me.

    For the rest of posters thx for your feedback, I do know that PvP system is broken, Id like to know why there are no players doing PVP, my +30 stat proposal was just an idea to try to make people doing champs what defenetly involves PvP action.

    So, if you are a PvPer ? what is the main reason you'r not playing Im tired to log in every day and see no action at all and that is sad, I had a lot if great moments playing this game in the past, we had a great PvP era and it is lost.

    In my opinion Trammel destroyed the soul of this game, but we have to live with it, all I ask is a solution for Felucca. Making a good Faction system, revamping champs, how long do we need to wait? the continuous changes in PvP mechanics make the game more complex adn frustrating for new players, even for old players is frustrating.

    Anyway this posts is getting out of focus I just wanted some action for the summer, Im realizing that its an impossible mission...........
     
  38. Umfufu

    Umfufu Journeyman
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    These discussions has been going on for ages.

    Forgive me, but as I see it, though very vocal sometimes, the real hardcore PVPers are in the minority in UO.

    And from this point of view I think you should look at it all.
    How hard can it be to put yourselves in an other mans shoes ...

    It has been said over and over again.
    Not many wish to go to Felu for whatever reason just to be ganked and smacktalked away.

    The moment Trammel was born, Felu was close to deserted in a very short period.
    For me it seems that till this day the PVPer's just simply don't grasp the huge hint that lay in that fact.

    I know there folk who love PVP and do the champs and all, the fact remains you are in the minority.

    If you like to see more people in Felu, I think you should look at the picture in a totally different mindset.
    Sugesting a "solution" that has been tried before I do not see as a good idea.

    If I look at myself, and what incentive there is for me to visit Felu ...
    Not much ...

    Champs, not really, though the rewards are nice, not being a good pvper, and having no desire to become one , it is just not an option ..

    Double Resources, yes there was a time I was willing to risk my life to get the benefit of this. Why not anymore, cause they made it more attractive to mine and lumber in Ter Mur due to the shards and crystals that only drop there.

    Shop in faction towns for cheap items.

    And there I cannot come up with anymore ideas.

    I think to make Felu live again, you will need all the sorts of players to be motivated to go visit, not just the PVP crowd.
    Most cites in Trammel are already deserted and hardly visited, Felu is even worse, The time i do wonder around in Felu cities I feel like I am the last person alive in the world. It is not a nice envoirnment I like to hang out in for long, it is almost depressing.

    Back in the days then Trammel didn't exsist I had a blast, even though I am a carebear, I liked the fact I had to skill hiding on my miner/lumberjack to up my survivability, it gave a sense of adventure to haveone appear on screen and especially if they had heard you chop or dig and tried search the area to where you were hiding ... praying to god they would not walk through you and discover you ... very exciting moments ...
    They took that option away ... I cannot mine or lumber hidden .. again less reason to spend time in Felu ...

    I think to draw more folk to Felu is to indeed place items in that are excusively found there. Not speaking of uber items like PS, but like with Fishing, that you can get certain fish only found in Felu.
    Or stuffies like the crystals and shards for Ter Mur.

    How about new seeds for gardners, new mats/new recipes for crafters?
    Like with Lava fishing this new weapon, why not make the normal monster- and wildlife give rare drops for the hunters with special cutting knives, gotten from quests like in fishing?
    How about towns that specialize in crafting skills, having NPC's selling the specialized items, having like a Queens Forge version of a Loom or Oven?

    A whole range of this to appeal to all sorts of players to come visit to collect.
    Not big items like PS, but the fun stuff ?
    Also the fact it is more spread out then like the fixed champ spot where folk can just camp and await thier victems.

    This way most stand more a chance and are more motivated to team up and stand thier ground for the benefits.
    Make a wee bit less dangerous and scary, no stealing in guarded zones, make hide work again for gathering so we have the cat and mouse games again.

    In short make Felu overall more appealing, for the all sorts of players, and give them more the sense they can do more then play sheep to the crowd that in general populates Felu as is now.

    In my mind, this will make Felu more alive for everyone, not just one portion of the players in UO.

    Regards.

    PS Am not a native english speaker, I hope this makes sense to most of you.
     
  39. pgib

    pgib Guest

    People won't go back to felucca. You can make gold rain but they won't.

    UO had PvP rules so that players could enforce law in the wild (don't loot my monster because i'll attack you and similar).

    Then players screwed up everything becoming psycopathic mass-murderers that attack you for no reason at all, preferably when already engaged by two or three monsters (it all started in minoc cave).

    It is not the fear to be killed the reason why people don't go to felucca: you must be out of luck if someone can kill you because you just have to press a button to recall out.

    It is the nuisance of having to pay attention to the first bored kid that passes by: i don't want to play your game, find someone else, thanks. No way.

    Do you want people back in felucca? Give them revenge. If the bounty on a murderer reaches 1 million, britannia guards will chase him, wack him and leave him in jail until his skills are zeroed, his possessions gone, all the skill and stat caps resetted. I can assure you you'll get thousands of bluish guys wandering that land again.
     
  40. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Not that your idea is to terrible, but consider that some people are actually at those spawns to do the spawn, maybe even consider that some of the spawns that get done are done by people who never PvP.
    This once again becomes an issue of sheep and wolves, We should not promote that concept. I can honestly say are PvPers really playing because of champ spawns? If so then why? Look at it as they do not need the money, do not need the scrolls, and half the time a good portion of us would just roll into a spawn fight then leave with out even finishing it, so really who is hurting from this idea more? I have never been for adding powerscrolls to tram, but with your idea it would almost be needed since the ability to start and finish a spawn would be dictated by your ability to start and finish it when no one is online, literally. And if they were added to tram then would PvPers do the spawn still?

    Most people who PvP will agree that fighting in Mobs in game gets very boring and repetitive. If you are truly not playing or PvPing because you don't have anything left to gain in Fel from mobs, then are you actually not PvPing to PvP, but in fact only PvPing because you are forced to in the end? I agree that raids on PvPers can be fun and interesting, also being raided can be as well (unless it ends up as a 8v1 situation, which again I see no thrill or joy in that, hence my opinion about your idea being bad.) But forcing people into such a guild just to accomplish something is not the way to go. =\

    Hit post on accident.....

    I feel for you, I just do not think adding higher stat or skill scrolls is the way to go on this one. Making factions more enticing is one option, and I don't mean trying to revamp the point system, but making it actually meaningful to do things as a faction. Revamping champs? I don't see the point to much, aside from maybe making the mobs a little harder/intelligent.

    I am not sure there is any one cut and dry answer to why people are not playing, lack of participation might be one itself, which always leads to more lack of participants, so its a cycle. Also adding a reward to the champs that is as you suggested is a very short term fix, assuming it would get actual Pvpers to play more, because eventually they would have no need for them anymore and thus be right back here.

    I still feel as if it is the lack of players over all, plus the lack of new players wanting to PvP that is hurting PvP the most. for each person that stops participating, that is one more reason for another person to stop participating, and it trickles until there is no one participating anymore. Agree we need to get more people to participate, I just do not agree with the +30 stat scroll, the whole business that it will level off again, plus balance issues.
     
  41. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    I was joking about how inconsequential PvPing is and has been since insurance was introduced. It's hard for me to get nervous if I'm not going to lose anything if I die and it's hard for me to get excited/motivated if I'm not going to win anything of significance. You either lose gold through insurance or win gold through insurance, but gold is meaningless. Factions... I don't even know where to start on that one so I won't.

    If I want risk/reward in PvPing, I'll go play EVE Online.

    IMO, the problems with UO PvP and attracting people to it is a "big picture" issue that is hard to deal with. If there was a bigger dev team, it would be another story. I think they are trying to improve it, but there is only so much you can do with the small population that we have, which is even smaller when you break out Fel.

    Unfortunately, if they can bring in a bunch of new players, I don't see all that many journeying to Fel as it is. There is a reason why the majority of MMOs do not have unrestricted PvPing in large areas, and why the hardcore PvP games like EVE Online are still considered niche games.

    I agree with Petra Fyde that messing with stats would only make things worse. I agree with rareitem on a few things, especially in regards to revamping factions. I don't agree that Tram destroyed the soul. I used to despise Tram, but the majority of players came after Tram and AOS, and we might not still be talking about an active UO if a Tram ruleset had never been introduced. If there were more players that liked hardcore PvP where you could lose everything or nearly everything, then EVE Online would have a million players and we would have no item insurance in Fel. Companies make decisions based on what they think players want, and while we may scratch our heads at those decisions, things like Tram and item insurance, and the success of Warcraft show that players want the option of deciding how much risk to take.

    The arenas stuff is interesting and could give some people a "safe" taste of PvPing, but there's still a lot that needs to be improved. I think rareitem and a few others hit the nail on the head with factions.

    I was going to say that they should ask some people on the Camelot and Warhammer teams to provide some feedback, maybe come in, spend a week playing around with factions as players, and then write up something about PvP in regards to what they as developers think should be done, but the problem with that is that those teams plus the Star Wars teams have looked to the UO team for advice on PvP in the past so it would be some kind of weird feedback loop.

    Part of what attracts me to EVE Online is that parts of it are a pre-Tram UO in the guise of a sci-fi space-based MMO. There is a lot of risk and a lot of reward, and it can be exciting when you have hundreds of players fighting it out at the same time, and there are both personal rewards for winning as well as corporate (guild) rewards such as controlling areas in a way that UO doesn't allow for. Many battles sucks, but there are enough that take on an epic feel of sorts that makes you forget about the sucky battles.

    EVE Online borrowed heavily from pre-Tram UO and the developers even acknowledge UO as one of their inspirations, and it's a shame UO couldn't figure out how to borrow some of the PvP excitement and scale from EVE. Obviously you can't have hundreds of players fighting hundreds of other players in UO like you do in EVE, and having total control of an area would be impossible given player housing and how it would **** off a lot of players if their houses were lost or incorporated into an area controlled by a guild.
     
  42. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I think it could be done, We have towns and Dungeons and all sorts of area's that could end up as control sites. Also, I suppose you could have the over land areas controlled by guilds or factions or whatever the introduced method is, so long as the methods make sense, and what you can do with the land also makes sense. Obviously we can't be evicting people from area's, but there could be a way to work it out. Really need a solid foundation of an idea before you can decide how best to implement it though. How do you gain control? What would control benefit the players in the winning party? Those kinds of things need to be laid out before the where, because if you have a contradiction to housing then obviously it will not work for overland.
     
  43. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    A part of that foundation would be a much improved in-game communication system. That is sorely lacking and would be required for guilds/factions to communicate better than ICQ or some of the other third party systems. A better mapping system, or rather one that would prominently display areas controlled by factions is needed, but that would be contingent upon Fel being broken up into many more areas that could be controlled by guilds/factions. There would be some areas that nobody can control - an NPC-controlled Britain for instance.

    Bear in mind I'm assuming most don't play EVE and I'm trying to give an equivalent to UO.

    In EVE, an alliance (or faction in UO) has sovereignty over an area, you control that area or system. That maybe a dungeon or a town in UO. To claim sovereignty, the UO equivalent would be placing a tower or maybe a keep or castle in a particular location and holding that one spot for seven days before you can claim sovereignty. If somebody can knock you out of that location or tear down the tower or whatever, things reset. If you could hold that location for more than a week, you gain more benefits/controls. There comes a point at which you have to hold surrounding areas to gain further benefits.

    Sovereignty is a major driver in PvP in EVE, because there are a lot of benefits that go along with it - you get protection for outposts. You can build up infrastructure. You consume less fuel in systems controlled by your corporation or alliance, which would probably be similar to the benefits of faction vendors in UO, although LRC and other things work against that. On the map, the system is shown as being controlled by your alliance.

    It's an interesting thought and I glossed over a lot obviously. think there are things from EVE that could be applied to UO when it comes to PvP, but it's tough. Besides there being only one shard for most players, another barrior to applying the EVE Online model is the whole insurance thing - in EVE you can basically be dry-looted, and good luck on getting that implemented in Fel, that's a little too risky for some :lol:
     
  44. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    this thread has gone in so many different directions.

    fel spawns the way there set up now are fine. its the one place to fight that doesnt have guard zone. where say in despise you can use group strategies of attacking and defending. the 20 power scroll is the reward for this. bascially this is the only item that fel has.

    in tram despite the drop rate argument the rewards are potentially far greater with no worry about getting griefed by other players (outside of events, where the griefing far surpasses anything you see in fel) get a few whammies and a bard and you can drop slasher in 5-10 minutes now, and yes i did get a lavalierre saturday which has a price of 85-90 mln gold.

    i think if you want to bring more sosarians to fel something must be put in place that spells severe consequences for being a red or an agressor. Right now there are no such consequences and with having 7 character slots available on 1 account now theres no disadvantage if your red never sees the light of trammel again.

    as to what those consequences (or carrots for more to play fel side are) if really dont have an answer for but i think it puts forth a valid discussion.

    As to repopulating the cities, the majority of cities being dead is mainly due to there not being a reason to visit any. i always hear of the good old days when people would goto the forges to fix stuff and smith's could ply there trade. maybe go back to that. make staging areas in each town where players need to go to get things down, couple that with player housing in towns and maybe you will see more life in them. just my 2 cents.
     
  45. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Agree most might not play EVE (I know I don't, but that has nothing to do against the game simply how I play anygame, I try to limit myself to one of certain genres so not to split my time between them to much.) But I was only giving ideas that I have had for a long while, and it sounds like EVE has them applied nearly the same as I think of them, except there are obvious things we can not do anymore (i.e. dry-looting)

    I have to say though, I do not find dry looting to be such a big issue, if everyone was able to be dry-looted we would only end up with 1 of two situations, 1 everyone plays in less than perfect suits (basically back to how it was before AoS or at the very start of AoS) Or no one fights unless they have a super advantage (or think they do, which is how the game is played right now more or less anyhow so I don't really see the problem so much *shrugs*).

    Those are just my opinions though, obviously they do not reflect the opinions of basically anyone else (just refer to everyone being against insurance going away.) But I still think there needs to be something of actual meaning in the PvP crowds world. The question becomes, what benefits can be bestowed that are not already given through the use of an item or prop?
     
  46. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    It's time for a pvp booster pack! Make one new, small land mass only reachable by an access gate/sparklies. Allow players to choose their allegiance for fighting prior to accessing the new ruleset: guild only, faction, ffa. Guild only would mean everyone on that land mass not in your guild is orange to you. Faction would follow give you a choice of faction/groups to join. Everyone not in that faction/group is orange to you. FFA means you are flying solo - everyone is orange to you. Allegiance would last for 1 hour after you exist the land mass via access gate/sparkly (no recall/gate/sacred journey out). No guard zones are needed. Implement leader boards and some sort of NPC announcement system that would assist players in locating where the action is at any given time.

    FWIW, this is how I thought champ spawn areas should have been implemented. I'm not sure I'd advocate bringing pvm to this though (which is what champ spawns are).
     
  47. pgib

    pgib Guest

    The idea itself might be good but then instead of having five players in felucca you'll end having 2 on felucca and 3 on the new land.
     
  48. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    Wait...OMFG I have it!


    A 35 stat scroll!


    Yes! I saved UO!
     
  49. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
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    Or maybe EA/Bio could actually take the time to read these forums and know what some of their playerbase would like...

    But we all know how the old saying goes.

    "I cannot help thee"
     
  50. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    I really hope they make it so in FELUCCA, if anyone is doing spawn, you could through a crystal ball to know someone is doing it.

    Like I said, for some shards, Felucca is so unpopulated that you wont even have the time to check spawn every single hour for all the freakin 10+ spawns.

    This is REALLY WASTE OF TIME!

    Moreover, even having this feature in, doesnt mean that non pvpers still cannot do spawn in Felucca. They could do it at night time, working hours if they are really so chicken to be getting killed.

    Honestly, if you scare to get kill, just hide in Trammel. Thats what trammel is for the newbies.

    If you come over to Felucca, you expect to have a chance to get kill by others.

    THIS IS THE FUN OF FELUCCA and the point of FELUCCA where other players can screw you or backstab you.

    With a group of trammies just hide in pt 3, 4, 5, 1, etc.. to do spawn for 10mins and then farm 20's ps are just way too crazy. The system shouldnt be working like this.

    If you even have to protect the non pvpers in FELUCCA, I really got nothing to say. Why not we just make a LAND totally TRAMMEL ruleset and freakin remove the FELUCCA ruleset all at once?

    For keeping the current CHAMP spawn ruleset in Felucca just benefit the blue cowards farmers to do spawn non stop and get tons of 20PS and then transfer to a populated shard to resell in a double or triple price..

    WHY UO CAN BECOME LIKE THIS? This is FELUCCA, wake up people! Thats what UO intended to implement: RISK VS REWARD... but where's the risk now? LOL