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I've said it before...(trace routes)

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Vortex, Jan 11, 2010.

  1. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    ....but I'll say it again.

    Do NOT post your trace route on the forums UNTIL you have removed the ip addresses from the first several hops!!!

    You are giving a hacker a loaded gun and saying see if you can hit me in the head!
     
  2. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    Don't all ips start at the same? I know when i log in to diffident networks with my ipod touch they are all the same number.
     
  3. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    Generally the first one or two are internal networks and usually have similar IP addresses. Any smart network person can identify these. However after the first internal network addresses it goes to your personal (specific) IP addresses which gives a way for hackers to ID you.
     
  4. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    The first hop is generally from your PC/IPOD whatever to youre router, 2nd hop will be modem, 3rd hop is your ISP router near your house, 4th is generally the ISP itself. If you dont have a router (or use modem with built in router) just skip that part.
     
  5. AEowynSP

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    Not to derail but. ipod? Are we all going mac now?
     
  6. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    1. My IP is nowhere in there.
    2. yourmom is 14 hops away from me.
    3. 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31 24.79.196.31
     
  7. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    Also, don't do this at home kiddies.

    I am a trained internet stunt professional.
     
  8. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Your ip is in there.

    It is 24.79.196.1 - You are behind a router as well as a NAT, which is why you don't think your IP is in there, but it is.

    Your internet service provider is Shawcable out of Calgary, Alberta.

    A simple port scan would tell me everything else I need to know.

    You can believe me or don't. It's what I do for a living.
     
  9. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    Then try access my web server at http://24.79.196.1

    Now try access it at http://24.79.196.31

    The 10.0.0.1 is the hop that 'should' be my ip, but it's the LAN side of my router so you never see the address for the WAN side. The .1 address is the first hop under my ISP's control.

    Also, I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Not Alberta. That's arguing semantics though, as that's what the WHOIS says.

    A port scan on the proper IP address would tell you which ports I've specifically allowed to pass through my router, nothing more.

    You can believe me or don't. It's what I've done since I was 4 and simply happen to make my living at it.

    =]
     
  10. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    *steals Vortex's work IP from his webserver logs*
     
  11. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    The address for your web server is not the same as the address for your router. There is a lot more to this, but this is not a hacking class.

    I never said you live in Alberta, I said your isp is in Alberta.

    The port scan will tell me which ports are open and by that I can determine what softwares you are running, exploit their vulnerabilities and access your system.

    When you get your CISSP, come talk to me, in the meantime, think about mapping and what you are giving a hacker when you post your traceroute.

    Here is a quote from Homeland Security in a whitepages article..





     
  12. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Excellent! Track that and see what you get. You will find its all faked.
     
  13. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    My web server is my laptop.
    Don't bring out the credentials. You're either right, in which case the truth shall set you free. Or you're wrong, and... I can't think of a way to finish this sentence that wouldn't take it out of friendly disagreement territory =]

    [​IMG]

    A tracert will not show your IP. It will only show the LAN address of your router, or the first hop of your ISP if you're connected directly.
     
  14. Falon of Eldor

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    *drools*

    *feels the heat*

    [YOUTUBE]<object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Md7MYS06Tdw&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Md7MYS06Tdw&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]
     
  15. Skylark SP

    Skylark SP Available Storage: 0
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    @Wulf & Vortex...I know you are both moderators, but if you make me pull the tech car over to the side of the road to settle you down, both of you will be getting more than a port scan. :twak:

    -Skylark









































    P.S. :p :heart:
     
  16. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    ...But he started it.... =]
     
  17. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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  18. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    not everyone might have a router, they may be hooked up directly to their isp. as vortex says if you show off your outside access ip then hackers can attempt to hack you by probing your ports.

    its not a lesson for the network professional, its a lesson for the nerd deficients.

    Lorddog
     
  19. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    If you don't have a router, then you're still only showing the first hop in your ISP. That won't be your IP.

    It will narrow it down a lot, but there'd still be 253+ addresses to guess that are other customers in your ISP, or unassigned addresses.
     
  20. Damien Softstep

    Damien Softstep Visitor

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    :lol:
     
  21. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    But port scanning isnt legal! Hackers wouldnt break the law like that. They are good people...no?
     
  22. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Thanks for trying, he just doesn't get it.

    If you want to post your whole tracert then do it, what the heck do I care?

    For those who want to listen, its good advice.
     
  23. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    You're trying to tell me that I don't know my own IP.

    You're trying to tell people to strip out the lines of information from a tracert that will tell people how stable their connection to their local router and ISP is. These lines gives no personally identifiable information.

    You are actively spreading misinformation and making it more difficult to troubleshoot any networking issues.

    If you believe me to be wrong, then prove it. What is the address that I give as my webserver? That is running off my laptop.

    Portscan the .1 address. Portscan the .31 address. Which is more likely to be mine?

    Go to http://www.whatismyip.com

    Does the address that it gives you appear anywhere in a tracert that you perform?
     
  24. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    Is port scanning illegal?
    No.
     
  25. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    Hmm that site gives an different IP then I view on my PC
     
  26. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Nevermind, that gives too much info.

    You right, everyone post your trace routes at will. Go crazy.
     
  27. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    This is the closest you have come to understanding. Now, I ask you, how many of those will have traffic on the port that UO uses?

    I don't need the ip for your laptop to get the info I need. I only need the routers info.
     
  28. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    The actual IP of my laptop is 10.0.0.x. My router is the 24.79.196.31. It is port-forwarding port 80 to my laptop. For the purposes of this discussion my router and laptop are the exact same IP from an external point of view.

    A problem showing up before it leaves the local network will be indistinguishable from a problem showing up at further hops, if the first hops are not included.

    The UO Tech forum has no such rule last time I was by there.



    I have one IP address. What are you theoretically intending to hack, if you're going after the .1 address instead of my router/laptop's IP?

    .1 is a machine owned and operated by my ISP. I doubt anybody on these forums that is smart enough to hack that machine is stupid enough to hack that machine.

    See above. Good luck hacking my ISP. Even if you do hack my ISP, you do not gain access to any data residing on my side of the network, as that will not get you through my router.

    Who knows? There's no way for you to tell. NAT is letting the UO servers communicate through the router, but not you. Your port scan won't show any active UO ports.

    My router's WAN status screen:

    [​IMG]

    My router is .31.

    My ISP owns .1
     
  29. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    Are you seriously suggesting that it's a potential risk for somebody to both hack my ISP's server and set up a man in the middle attack between me and EA just for my UO password?

    When you say router, you're really talking about the ISP controlled one and not the one I plug into my cable modem?
     
  30. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    The site I gave will give you the address for your house, to put it basically and assuming a standard residential setup. Your computer will be whatever you get from an ipconfig, or wherever else you check your ip directly from your pc.

    The .1 I'm arguing about with my setup is a machine somewhere in my ISP's control. The .31 I'm arguing about is the box I plug into my cable modem, that controls everything in or out of my house.

    The one I plug into my cable modem is what I've been arguing about. People with that number can exploit poor security on that one.

    The one under my ISP's control has the resources of a nationwide ISP aimed at keeping it secure.

    The ISP is the only one that has an address appearing in a tracert.
     
  31. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    This is what I've been basing my whole argument on.

    My IP is not that address. Nothing sent to that address will ever reach me. Port scans to that address will not show any services I have running.

    Anybody that can hack my machine or extract my UO password from that number alone will be too busy performing man in the middle attacks on traffic to and from banking websites to bother with me. Also, law enforcement responds to that level of a hack.
     
  32. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Port scan is not the only tool, and I'm not going further with this. It does not require me to hack the ISP's router.

    Post them all you want, what do I care?

    Wikipedia on trace route:
     
  33. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Would it be better if I said I can get your ip address from 24.79.196.1?

    Would you understand better then?
     
  34. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Now that is laughable. You are in Canada, I'm in the United States. The hacker might be in the UK, or India. Which law enforcement agency would you like to investigate this?
     
  35. Scuzzlebutt

    Scuzzlebutt Babbling Loonie
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  36. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    ROFL, I was waiting for that...
     
  37. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    You'd be wrong, but I'd understand you better. Also, that's not what you said.

    If you'd like to show me that you're right, I can spoof a MAC address for a new IP, show you my new tracert, and you can tell me what my IP is later tonight. If not, I'll let it go.

    Anyway, don't mistake my arguing for anything personal. I'm just a stickler for being right. Especially when I'm right. =]
     
  38. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    http://www.betanews.com/article/British-hacker-will-be-extradited-to-US-for-trial/1249035677

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Venezuelan-VoIP-Hacker-Extradited-to-U-S-124771.shtml

    http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent...ties_extradite_indian_on_hacking_charges.html

    Moral of the story: Hack regular people all you want. Don't mess with anybody that has money or power.
     
  39. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Not taking it personal, it was something to do while I was at work. Now its time to go home.

    I'll let you continue to think you are right. Of course, that would mean that dozens of IT Security professionals are wrong in saying not to give out trace routes.

    And no, I would rather not play find your ip without written permission from your ISP.
     
  40. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    Not that Wikipedia isn't the greatest collection of knowledge gathered in one place since man first started writing on the walls of public restrooms, but if sensitive information includes "Which way out to the internet", your security needs a second look.

    Anyway, I need a smoke. Back in a few.
     
  41. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    Did you ever take your laptop and find some one open networks and print stuff on their printer?
     
  42. Skylark SP

    Skylark SP Available Storage: 0
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    !!

    :twak:

    The whole "should have never started" issue aside...you have an excellent reason to quit now.

    -Skylark
     
  43. Damien Softstep

    Damien Softstep Visitor

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    :lol:
     
  44. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    That's because there's no password on the wireless, and it puts you on their LAN

    Completely separate topic from trying to find their IP or connect from the internet side of their router.
     
  45. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    Yeah, I know.

    I only do it at work now, nowhere else.
     
  46. Spree

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    But if i can print i can haxxors too :popcorn:
     
  47. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
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    But a tracert isn't going to help you drive up to their house within range of their unsecured wireless network either.
     
  48. Spree

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    Then when I'm on their network can i post their trace route? :lol: