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Jeremy...about that playtesting...there are going to be petballs in testcenter bankboxes right? Bon

Discussion in 'UHall' started by imported_MoonglowMerchant, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. 1. I know that the new publish has not hit test center yet but here is some early feedback on the petball changes. The changes will serve their intended purpose of reducing some of the "gimp" tactics being used by "pvp tamers". However, the casting delay will have the unintended effect of taking a dismounted player out of the frying pan and into the fire. Currently, the defensive use of petballs to summon a pet to escape dismount is the only realistic chance to survive. The interruptable casting delay will eliminate the opportunity to survive. Dismount will go from almost certain death, to unavoidable death.

    2. If the change to petballs is a foregone conclusion, then please remove dismount as a special on the heavy crossbow. It is too easy to hide, arm a dismount special, and then knock anyone within 8 tiles off their ride. This tactic is currently the mainstay of PvP and the only way to survive it right now is to petball in a pet to mount and escape. Replace dismount as a special on the heavy with concussion blow or crushing blow. This will still make it a powerful weapon (it already has running shot) but will balance it with the petball change.

    3. Please speed up ROT on Siege. It has been talked about, polls have been done, nearly everyone is in agreement. Let's just get it done.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Agreed, the gimp stealth archers are overpowered enough without dismount, dismount just makes them too hard to survive against.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ROT won't happen this publish, we're already murdering QA with all the changes as it is. But I'll definitely try to get it on the table for next publish. The petball stuff we really want to see some playtesting on, particularly with the ethereal casting timer tweak, but we are watching.
     
  4. I edited out the line in my post where I said a 3 second summoning time on ethy's was 2 seconds too long, but since you brought it up...

    The 3 second summoning time on ethys will not solve the dismount=death problem as long as the summoning is interruptable.

    One on one, I can interrupt anyone trying to mount an ethy in combat indefinitely. When considered in the context of a gank, the chances of no one doing any damage for three seconds to interrupt the summoning of an ethy is really, really, really unrealistic.

    I don't need to test it on test center to assure you of that.
     
  5. Sublime69

    Sublime69 Guest

    Havent they nerfed archers enough. With max hit chance and 120 wep skill I still hit 1 out of seven times if im lucky. I use a 40 ssi heavy with hit spell and I still can't keep anyone on foot (with 150 dex/stam). Once every 15 seconds for you to summon a pet is more than enough. Complaining about ganks why should ANY one player be able to survive when 4 people attack him this is fel we are talking about if 5 people decided to attack you at once you should die EVERYTIME.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Havent they nerfed archers enough. With max hit chance and 120 wep skill I still hit 1 out of seven times if im lucky. I use a 40 ssi heavy with hit spell and I still can't keep anyone on foot (with 150 dex/stam). Once every 15 seconds for you to summon a pet is more than enough. Complaining about ganks why should ANY one player be able to survive when 4 people attack him this is fel we are talking about if 5 people decided to attack you at once you should die EVERYTIME.

    [/ QUOTE ]BINGO. If 1-2 people dismount you, it should not be an issue for you - they are on foot, you are on foot, get over it, fight instead of run. If 3 or more dismount/gank you, accept that you are SUPPOSED to die, not magically run away with your yellow tail between your legs.

    And no, I do not use dismount, I am not an archer, and very rarely participate in ganks, I just am smart enough to realize that a gank SHOULD equal death. If they could work together against one target, they deserve to kill said target. PERIOD.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thing is, most of the time I get dismounted it is by only 1 or 2 people. One dismounts, the other is in wolf form, the other turns into a wolf as soon as possible. Can't really run then.
     
  8. <blockquote><hr>

    Havent they nerfed archers enough. With max hit chance and 120 wep skill I still hit 1 out of seven times if im lucky. I use a 40 ssi heavy with hit spell and I still can't keep anyone on foot (with 150 dex/stam). Once every 15 seconds for you to summon a pet is more than enough. Complaining about ganks why should ANY one player be able to survive when 4 people attack him this is fel we are talking about if 5 people decided to attack you at once you should die EVERYTIME.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Then make it 5 People poping out of stealth with High Damage 40SSI Weapons that can hit you with Moving Shot every 2.5-2.75 seconds.
    But at Least dismount the guy with a Bola, if you cant kill the guy with 5 High Damage Weapons and Moving Shot while hes mounted.......

    I agree with Replacing the Dismount Move on the Heavy with another Move, make one up, use an existing one like Force Arrow, just do something about it.

    At least with a Bola Dismount, or Polearm Dismount, I know I stood in one area too long. Dismounting From Range with a Damage Bonus for doing so in a split second is devastating enough only to be chased by moving shot on foot, not to mention the Paralize, Nervestrike, FS, All Kill, or any number of other combinations that usually follow a dismount.
    If we could get some freakin attn to Speedhackin people that can outrun mounted players on foot we wouldnt need dismount to begin with.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Give me a break with the dismount thing..... YOu can't take that away from archers..... it's about our only defense as a stealth archer.... I can't disarm, I can't bleed, I need the dismount... it's the only useful thing I can do.... can't slow anyone down and whine all you want but in order for me to dismount you I have to be ON FOOT! If you and I are now both on foot then what are you whining about????? ONly levels the field some.... Archers have been nerfed WAY Too much..... I can't use 90% of the special moves for bushido, or ninjitsu.... now you want to take away the only good tool I have left me?????? GET SOME DEFENSE CHANCE AND QUIT WHINNING!!!!!!
     
  10. <blockquote><hr>

    Give me a break with the dismount thing..... YOu can't take that away from archers..... it's about our only defense as a stealth archer.... I can't disarm, I can't bleed, I need the dismount... it's the only useful thing I can do.... can't slow anyone down and whine all you want but in order for me to dismount you I have to be ON FOOT! If you and I are now both on foot then what are you whining about????? ONly levels the field some.... Archers have been nerfed WAY Too much..... I can't use 90% of the special moves for bushido, or ninjitsu.... now you want to take away the only good tool I have left me?????? GET SOME DEFENSE CHANCE AND QUIT WHINNING!!!!!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm playing a hide/dismount archer right now.

    I agree with you that in a one on one situation, a stealth archer is underpowered. However, there is almost no one vs. one PvP anymore.

    In a group setting, the hide/dismount archer is currently the most valuable person on the field since dismount is the one way to almost certainly kill someone.

    My original post was intended to point out that the elimination of petballs as a means of escape will have the unintended effect of further overpowering a class which already has the highest value in group combat.

    As a person interested in balanced PvP rather than the success of my current build, I don't want to see dismount become a bigger problem than it already is.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Playing an archer myself I have a mixed response:

    No, dismount doesn't need removal - that's just you looking for a nerf of a template you don't play.

    However, I do agree with the thought that people should be able to summon and mount a pet right away - its only fair.

    Best fix would probably be that you can instantly call a mountable pet with a petball but have a delay on calling non-mountable pets.
     
  12. <blockquote><hr>

    No, dismount doesn't need removal - that's just you looking for a nerf of a template you don't play.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Please read before responding. It saves me from pointing out again that I currently play a hide/dismounter.

    <blockquote><hr>

    However, I do agree with the thought that people should be able to summon and mount a pet right away - its only fair.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Currently, it isn't "right away". If you are dismounted, you still have to wait three seconds before any summoned pet can be mounted.

    With the petball change, you will have to wait three seconds before the pet can be mounted, additionally you will have to wait a few seconds to actually use the petball and that will be interruptable.

    It seems silly to remove the defensive use of a petball when it is the offensive use that is the intended change.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Best fix would probably be that you can instantly call a mountable pet with a petball but have a delay on calling non-mountable pets.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The best solution in my opinion, for the fourth or fifth time, would be to increase the delay between pet summoning and the ability to give the "all kill" command. Currently, that delay is about a second. Increasing that delay will still allow pets to be summoned for escape but would prohibit their use as part of an offensive combo.

    Unfortunately, what will happen here is that this change will go through as designed and dismount will then require an additional adjustment. The situation will be similar to enchanted apples where the over-nerfing of the apples made something else (i.e. strangle) overpowered. We were told that change was not working as designed, but here we are 2 years later and nothing has been done. Meanwhile, more and more people go to games where there are timely updates and major problems aren't accidently created and/or allowed to fester for years.

    Edit: As another solution, go ahead with the casting delay but make it similar to holy light where it can be cast on the run and is uninterruptable.
     
  13. <blockquote><hr>

    The 3 second summoning time on ethys will not solve the dismount=death problem as long as the summoning is interruptable.

    One on one, I can interrupt anyone trying to mount an ethy in combat indefinitely. When considered in the context of a gank, the chances of no one doing any damage for three seconds to interrupt the summoning of an ethy is really, really, really unrealistic.

    I don't need to test it on test center to assure you of that.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It may work out fine. You invis first or drink an invis pot and then hit your ethy. They won't be able to get off an EQ or a meteor swarm or a poison field etc. in time. There's other things they can do, like conflaguration pot, but that's what itll take to get you and it's a much different scene then today.

    If the ethy mounting were not interruptable, dismount in the field would be pretty much completely nerfed.... if they want to do that then that's one thing, but that WOULD be the effect.

    I'd take the interruptable ethy summon of 3 seconds over the old pet ball behavior any day. The pet ball thing only works but so many times cause your pet will be poisoned or dead, and they can't poison or kill your ethy.
     
  14. <blockquote><hr>

    Currently, it isn't "right away". If you are dismounted, you still have to wait three seconds before any summoned pet can be mounted.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I might be misunderstanding what you meant, but the no-remount timer for both the dismounter and the dismountee is 10 seconds, to the best I can remember from looking at my own debuff bar after doing a dismount.
     
  15. <blockquote><hr>

    Havent they nerfed archers enough. With max hit chance and 120 wep skill I still hit 1 out of seven times if im lucky. I use a 40 ssi heavy with hit spell and I still can't keep anyone on foot (with 150 dex/stam). Once every 15 seconds for you to summon a pet is more than enough. Complaining about ganks why should ANY one player be able to survive when 4 people attack him this is fel we are talking about if 5 people decided to attack you at once you should die EVERYTIME.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah archery is pretty weak right now, except for a couple of guys I know who are cheating like crazy plus have these super crazy crossbows that nobody else can get their hands on. Some of my guildies can go down in like 3 shots from those guys.

    Someone said remove the dismount special from the heavyx HAHAHAHAH with the current state of archery, we'd all pretty much have to hang our archers up and do something else with the chars. There'd be no job left for them in field combat, every other combat template would be superior.
     
  16. <blockquote><hr>

    Playing an archer myself I have a mixed response:

    No, dismount doesn't need removal - that's just you looking for a nerf of a template you don't play.

    However, I do agree with the thought that people should be able to summon and mount a pet right away - its only fair.

    Best fix would probably be that you can instantly call a mountable pet with a petball but have a delay on calling non-mountable pets.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Or maybe just have the casting time adjusted to the slots of the summoned pet?
     
  17. Razeial

    Razeial Guest

    RTLFC...


    Anyone who is griping about dismount being removed from stealth archers needs to go back to tram. Seriously, you should not be playing in pvp or fel if you took a character, and engineered all 720 skill points to be able to do ONE useful thing, which is dismount. Why don't you say.....use fencing or macing....and crawl up to somone and dismount them w/a lance or a club??? Atleast that makes sense. It sounds like to me stealthers are lazy. Infact, you may be able to do more damage to somone if you dismount them up close, bleed, poison, and hop into dog form and follow em till they're dead???? Maybe that would be more fun??? Maybe that would actually require some skill to play, rather than pressing F1 to dismount, and then holding down F2 and sccreaming to all your buddies in vent, GET HIM, I DISMOUNTED HIM, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE NOW SO PLEASE GANK HIM BEFORE HE KILLS ME 1V1 BECAUSE I PLAY A CHARACTER THAT HAS ALL 720 POINTS INVESTED INTO ONE STUPID SPECIAL!!! For the record, i play a stealther aswell. A fencer stealther. more like an assassin, and its much more fun then playing a dismount archer.....
     
  18. <blockquote><hr>

    BUT I do durring a battle like my job as the Dismounter... And while YES I "could" use a bola..... I MUCH Prefer my heavy..... and I see absolutely NO reason why dismount should be removed from the Heavy........ And the other fella is right ...... You can Dismount with Fencing, Swords, and macing..... why aren't you whining about that????? That's kinda what I'm saying..... I definatly DO NOT think they should remove dismout all together.....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't think dismount should be removed either. What I would like to see removed is the epidemic of hidden dismount archers (of which I am one).

    If someone dismounts me with a bola, well, there is a message and a delay. If someone stealths up and dismounts me with a club, well I stood around too long. But, to hide, and then be able to dismount anyone within 8 tiles is overpowered.

    It isnt overpowered because the dismounter can always chase you down and moving shot you to death (although they sometimes can), it is overpowered because the instant you are on foot, here comes the gank.

    Now, currently I can sometimes survive the gank by petballing in a pet to ride away. However, with the petball changes escape will be impossible. You won't be able to mount an ethy, you won't be able to summon a pet. It is going to equal death.
     
  19. How is anyone supposed to test the petball changes without petballs?
     
  20. Jeremy already said :"No? *grumble* There should have been. Let me go check on it. "

    however ... as in that thread there:


    Would be wise to check IF they're available through normal means ... eh?

    there having been some coding changes and all [​IMG]

    Won't be all that sharp to say:"good to go" and then find out after regular shard publish
    the supply of pet balls and application of the zoogi
    don' workie ... no more ...
    [​IMG]