1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Just an idea for what to do with scripters/cheaters/hackers

Discussion in 'UHall' started by SuperKen, May 19, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SuperKen

    SuperKen Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,486
    Likes Received:
    33
    I was going to post this in the Producer's Letter thread, but that's been locked.

    Instead of mass bannings that would actually end up being counter productive to the UO population, why not just lower the skills on those characters that are using scripts/cheats?

    So, for example, a person is PvPing and turns on a speedhack. As a rate formula that won't be known to players, that character's skills will start dropping; the longer he/she uses it, the more those skills will drop.

    Another example would be those who use scripts to build skills and then make money off of those skills. Since the anti-cheat program would constantly drop those skills, that money would never be made. Same goes for folks who use scripts to make resources; by the end of the night, they'd only be wasting their own resources.

    I don't know how powerful the 3rd party detection program will be or whether any of this is possible. But after having fought speedhackers for years, I'd still much rather have someone to PvP against than to have them all gone. I also think that UO should bare some responsibility for what's happened for not policing any of it for YEARS now.
     
  2. Schuyler Bain

    Schuyler Bain Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,131
    Likes Received:
    1
    Interesting ideas!

    It is my understanding that at this time they are going after the speedhackers more so than scripters (I may be completely wrong on this point). I would think the latter would be MUCH more difficult, but obviously they are both rather difficult as it has taken so long to address either.

    If they do/are going after scripters, then I think your ideas are a creative solution to a sticky-wicket of a problem.
     
  3. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    12
    "i can't kill sn alone" ... did this comment inspire this thread ? imho this is a great idea you have. EACH detection should stack and ****** skills 20% for 72 hours in order to prevent people from quickly 'turning it off and on' and/or logging.
     
  4. SuperKen

    SuperKen Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,486
    Likes Received:
    33
    Actually, I was thinking about a permanent reduction in skills. As far as EA is concerned, keeping players playing means more money and PvPers who use speedhacks are going to have to work extra hard to bring those skills back up.

    Kinda noticed a problem myself though. Plantgrowers don't need skills to farm mass seeds of renewal, but the easy solution would be to require Alchemy to grow plants. Not a huge ask, I think.
     
  5. I'm not sure this would solve anything. Players would just delete the affected character and start a new one.
     
  6. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Messages:
    2,948
    Likes Received:
    231
    Apply overhead title like "user of illegal app" while illegal app running. So everyone around will see who is who.
     
  7. Schuyler Bain

    Schuyler Bain Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,131
    Likes Received:
    1
    LOL - I like it!

    Just like "Party Plates" issued to people that drive under the influence in some states in the US (Perhaps elsewhere as well). At the very least it would allow other players to decide if they want to play with said person.
     
  8. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    If it works as well as ASBO's (Anti-Social Behaviour Orders) have in the UK, those who cheat will likely wear it as a sort of badge of (dis)honour. rolleyes:

    Don't disagree with the idea in principal though. Make them stand out.
     
  9. Dakkon Blackblade

    Dakkon Blackblade Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    6
    I've seen this line of thinking popping up in a few threads and I'm wondering what this is about? Are people really that happy to keep the wool over their eyes? of course if you ban the scripters/dupers you will see UOs real population numbers emerge and then maybe someone would have to admit the games direction has been going the wrong way for a long time?

    Of course merely speaking for myself here but I'd rather see UO shut down completely then to watch it continue on life support.
     
  10. This was brought up before, but the best solution to this would be to flag the users of illegal programs as a certain color (someone suggested pink). While they are flagged as a cheater (72 hours after detection) they are freely attackable anywhere with no consequences, they can do no damage to other players nor can they benefit other players, insurance does not work for them, and they are freely lootable anywhere, they can place nothing in nor remove anything from their bank boxes, and their houses are locked and cannot be entered by anyone. Also, they cannot safely log out anywhere.

    That should clear it up pretty quickly. :)
     
  11. Schuyler Bain

    Schuyler Bain Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,131
    Likes Received:
    1

    *Crack* that whip - Me likely!
     
  12. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    And then start scripting and see the skills dropping on that one, etc, etc, ad inifinitum. It'll keep them busy, yes ... but eventually they will a) give up and play nice or b) leave. <shrug>
     
  13. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    Okay, now THIS certainly rates a :thumbup: bigtime!

    Further down there was discussion on the reduction being timed versus permanent. I'd go for the timed ... let them build the skills up using approved methods ... or they continue to drop. Should they get restored and scripting starts, the cycle repeats.

    I'd say 48 - 72 hour cooldown before skills regain at all. Natch, bottom out at the minim allowed in Advanced Setup. If it continues as in UMing ... perhaps stats drop then? :gee:
     
  14. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    Oh, you are a cruel Mistress! Gee, I like this thread.
     
  15. Invalid

    Invalid Guest

    I've seen people say something along these lines a few times now and I just don't get it.

    You know, you could just uninstall and not come back and pretend it got shut down if that's really what you'd rather see. Why do they need to shut it down?
     
  16. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Aye, interesting suggestions in this thread SuperKen.
    - And then make it account wide and tied to any other accounts using any of the same user/payment info.
    And then increase the time and eventually ban them all if they continue to abuse UO.
    And blacklist all related user/payment information for perhaps 18 months (to give some cheaters another chance in hopes that they've matured enough to realize that cheating is bad).
    Sure, many will be able to circumvent that with relative ease; but unless you start by casting makeshift nets, you'll never catch any big fishies or little minnows. Then eventually, if you keep making more halfway decent nets, you just might be able to clean most of the skum out of the pond.
     
  17. Yalp

    Yalp Guest


    OMG! .. how about this "SK" .. if one is a GM of said cheaters guild... START by BOOTING THEM OUT!
     
  18. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    12
    rut roh

    *Jeopardy theme*

    ok ok lets not get crazy now :grouphug:
     
  19. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    Umm, kin ai haz his stuffz?
     
  20. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2003
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Successful plant growing already requires either having, or having unlimited access to, an alchemist, and more regs than any 10k people, COMBINED, currently playing any spell casting class use.

    And, somehow, I don't think that a high avg of 40SoR's per 100 plants over a period of 15 days is exactly unbalancing.

    So, as a quid pro quo, let's do away with 100% LRC suits at the same time. kthnx.
     
  21. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    720
    Good ideas on the losing skill points for cheaters but I disagree with you on the plant growers. Try growing plants and you tell me if its unbalanced. The seed of renewal rate per plant is fine imo. I can get more seeds of renewal doing the rat spawns then doing plants. Maybe I should be nerfed for getting more seeds at the spawns then plant growing lol. Maybe I should get a bonus of ingredients since my 4/6 chiv dexxer can solo the champs? It's sad a tamer with a greater drags leaves b/c he doesnt want to do the renown just kill what spawn he can kill and leave while I do the renown. So maybe he should lose his ingredients for not finishing the spawn?

    So seed debate is pointless but you do have a good idea with cheaters.
     
  22. Airhaun

    Airhaun Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    22
    As one who has also fought speedhackers for years I also am aware of the extreem advantage those using it have over those who do not. Some think the banning of these players that they've fought over the years would be sweet revenge. Sure I can see how people may feel that way. But if we step back and look at the bigger pitcure, nobody wins from lots of people getting banned.

    But if that is the path, Mythic decides to take I'll support them. But I do favor SuperKen's perma skill-loss idea and think it would be much more effective in combating speedhacking while preventing possible lost revenue to Mythic.
     
  23. I asked above and I'll ask again, what does this solve? They would just delete that character and create another one rather than suffer permanent skill loss.
     
  24. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's a good idea of what to do about cheaters...mind your own business, play the game, enjoy it as it is or leave. But stop scaring away new players and ruining the game.
     
  25. AND make them KILLABLE wherever they are regardless of account age. Give us the tools and WE THE COMMUNITY will put an end to the cheaters!

    Let's do THIS!
     
  26. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Umm.

    How about a few warning E-Mails, followed by a 24-hour ban, followed by a 3-day ban, followed by a perma-ban?

    How about something that crashes the client if the program is detected?

    This was actually tried a few years back, but the authors of the program (we all know which one I mean) were able to defeat it. So maybe do it better next time.

    -Galen's player
     
  27. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    0
    they should make it so you can't attack another player if you are running an unapproved 3rd party app.
     
  28. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    The programs can kind of do a lot more than PvP.

    -Galen's player
     
  29. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    48
    actually biggest thing hurting uo is knwoledge base out on net that it is a cheat haven

    stopping that rep is best thing developers could do and your 10 accounts of auto bots isnt a big deal in grand scheme

    can i trash your stuff for yah LOL





     
  30. Since scripters enjoy automating repetitive things, don't seem to care what impact they have on others, and like do things over and over and over...


    ...perhaps EA can setup a script to just bill their accounts, over and over and over whenever they log in with their script programs running...then when they complain about the bill, EA can give them some horsecrap about better mice and faster NIC cards, etc. :)
     
  31. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    Most players won't know anything about that at all, though they'll come here and see all the players whining about it and THAT will scare them off.

    That rep won't ever be stopped (people will still claim cheats no matter how effective the program is) and in the end only very very few new players will be gained, as UOs biggest obstacles concerning new players aren't cheating (which doesn't even affect new players at all), but poor graphics, confusing controls, confusing game logic, confusing systems unlike other MMOs, confusing abilities, lack of information, etc.

    I don't have any "auto-bots", its a weak retord used by those weak of mind to try and dismiss legit and logical arguments for their own myopic tunnel visions sake.
     
  32. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    You know, I hear this every now and then. What exactly are they impacting? I've played over 12 years now and I haven't been affected by cheating whatsoever by anyone. Hence why I don't fuss about it or see it as any big deal. Especially not compared to killing off UO or damage the game irreparably. The only ones who have negatively affected me are the anti-cheaters, who with their whining has taken away dev resources to develop stupid things like anti-macro codes, random resources (pretty much killed mining for me, as I don't have a mining radar script or mining script) and many other changes.

    Ahhhh, so its OK to impact other negatively as long as they're using YOUR approved tools, lol.
     
  33. jtw1984

    jtw1984 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    1
    When you run a speedhack your ping increases alot to the server. I'm no networking whiz so I'm not sure if this is possible but, Can we just put a ping cap on the servers? Lets say anyone over 5000 latency can't join?
     
  34. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    48
    hmm

    just to feed troll a little

    ec is more aligned in modern game layout

    you have stated 10 accounts why that many other than running bots in modern up when even castles non atl are cheap not worth monthly fee to hold more than a few

    my IQ test would leave yours looking like a Neanderthal

    as i dont need income from a 12 year old game for life and fear that it might get interupted

    this based off why rabid scripter defence last month or too posts

    new players do happen i helped one this month with suit etc and info on game mechanics






     
  35. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
    Administrator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,570
    Likes Received:
    1,835
    I have a slightly better idea, Take a portion of New Haven, or Old Haven, clear it off, set up an area there where well Basically Cheaters are put on Display....

    Lets say, you get caught cheating, you get a suspension, for the time frame of your suspension you can still log in, actually you have to complete your suspension time IN GAME, not logged off, so no time out....but you are stuck in this "Square" for lack of a better word, in the Stocks.. also have this area for cheaters always require talking of moving by your own character to refresh and prevent time outs... basically we don't want another Luna where you can stand and wear off counts without timing out. You have to be interactive on your client end!


    That's right You get a 24 hour ban, you get sent to the stocks, for 24 hours of in game time you cannot log on any other character, or log onto any other shard. To wear the 24 hour counter off you MUST be logged in on the character caught for 24 hours on display in Stocks.. Oh and we have a Town Crier there making an announcement that they are there for crimes against the crown or something. Move the new player starting point to just outside the entrance to this place so they can see that cheating in UO does not go unpunished.

    So...
    24 Hour Suspension = 24 Hours of wasted game time.
    72 Hour Suspension = 72 Hours of Wasted Game Time.
    1 Week Suspension = 168 Hours of Wasted Game Time.
    Pema Ban you don't go on the stocks, All the Town Criers once a seek give a list of "Executed Individuals", basically the names of a character on a banned account.
     
  36. King Frankie

    King Frankie Guest

    No exeptions ban them totaly on 1st offence. You lot say population will drop etc etc etc well how many has left UO due to cheats? Go figure...
     
  37. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    One of the silliest things I have ever heard. BTW, I PvP almost exclusively. There is not a single helper out there that can do anything I can do better. All the people on here that think the good PvPers hack, cheat, script, or w/e is totally false. All the really good ones are going to continue to be good. Its due to knowing game mechanics and good timing...... not cheats.
     
  38. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    You'd think anyone would listen to this...but no, doesn't suit their crusade.
     
  39. Myna

    Myna Guest

    i would delete chars caught while cheating and would check that account more often in future. that hurts

    when a few chars (including the scripted rebuilded one) got deleted maybe the owner will quit or stop or continue wasting time scripting to rebuild chars
     
  40. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    You unfortunately have a point chaos.. Its like screaming at walls in this place.
     
  41. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
    Administrator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,570
    Likes Received:
    1,835
    Why is it silly? It actually has a lot of purpose... First it shows that Mythic will actively enforce their rules. Secondly if the people caught cheating want to keep their account, they have to accept responsibility for it, instead of just going and playing another Game for a couple nights or watching a few movies.


    Personally I don't care if a person PvPs or not... my views are not based on my opinions of PvP, I haven't accused most PvPers of cheating, I've accused many of them of being foul mouthed chuckle-heads, with the IQ of a Happy Sock from time to time, but no I don't accuse them all of cheating. My view is if you are cheating by using an unapproved 3rd party program in PvP, PvM, Crafting, Resource Gathering, Skill Training, or just to keep your client refreshed so you can burn off counts while you are standing around dead... You should be held accountable for the use of an unapproved 3rd party program and proper negative action should be taken upon you. Me I like my ideal way, and yes it is my opinion of what should be done.. because then you aren't simply out of the picture you are subject to the ridicule and scrutiny of your entire shard in addition to having your play time severely hampered.
     
  42. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've always felt that the ban on scripting was very similar to alcohol prohibition in the US. if the Devs implement a policy to ban scripters, that would be like executing people who got caught at a speakeasy.

    Devs should work with the team that makes the scripting environment to find a way to legitimize scripting.

    the community could approve scripts for wider use, compile them, and the UO client could be programmed to determine if a user is running an approved script.

    why? because each script is an individual computer program. some are good, some are bad.

    developers would have to design the client to boot players that use unapproved 3rd party programs or unapproved scripts. on test center, any scripts could be used and tested by scripters trying to write new scripts.

    legal crap: programmers would probably have to give up the rights to sell their work in order to share it with the community for review and have it approved.

    this would open a whole new aspect of UO to many players, bring the scripter's sense of industriousness and ingenuity out of the shadows of a ~13 year old UO terms of service, and allow the community to decide what is and is not good for the game's economy.
     
  43. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
    Administrator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,570
    Likes Received:
    1,835
    IBTL

    Yea that's right they already locked one thread cause of that getting posted.. figured I'd get a IBTL before a Mod sees this.
     
  44. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    0
    the thread was not locked because I posted it, it was locked because of the reactionaries and know-nothings such as yourself started to troll the thread.
     
  45. Because you can't be wrong?

    So... which scripts specifically are you looking for that you can't already do with a macro? There's a big difference between asking for a new macro feature than asking to allow scripts.
     
  46. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    0
    at least you are willing to discuss the idea now.

    the scripts that would be approved would be those that the community agrees are not harmful to the game. the theory is you could compile the script and let it past the 3rd party protection (ie: approve it)

    of course, all sandbox scripting that is allowable now on all shards, would only be allowed on test center.

    again the main legal issue here is that a person who writes a computer program owns it, so... as part of this approval process they'd have to give up the rights to it. but maybe not. I am not a lawyer.
     
  47. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    8,369
    Likes Received:
    10
    What you fail to see and understand is the community disagrees with scripting in general. It doesn't take a genius to see the <10 people spamming every thread having to do with script opposition to see where the line is drawn. You are wasting your time with what you believe is debate on a subject that has already been decided. There will not be any backing down this time. It's judgement day for all those users of the script engines not smart enough to recode it for their personal use. Guess you better go learn Lua

    :popcorn:

    /end troll feed
     
  48. That is way too vague and not an answer to the question. I'm asking you to be more specific on which scripts you think should be allowed, because I agree with what Phantus said that we as a community will never agree with scripting in general.

    Which specific actions do you want to script? That's something we can discuss the merits of, not let "the community agrees are not harmful to the game." That statement really leaves nothing to discuss other than YES or NO.
     
  49. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    Its layout is somewhat similar to modern MMOs, but the comparison stops there. Its horribly ugly and 2D, non-intuitive (the CC is no better), a game system completely alien to modern MMOs.

    I don't have any castles or keeps, i think they are the most ugly thing ever. We are 3 people who use the accounts and we have many characters that spread out across all the accounts. We also have many houses which have great sentimental value to us. Monetary cost is irrelevant, money is not an issue for us.

    I make a large amount of money of my RL income, I don't need to slave in a computer game (scripts or not) for a measly income.

    I don't fear interruption of anything, I fear the destruction of the game which we have great fun playing, I fear the loss of friends, communities and final collapse of the economy.

    Yes, they do happen. Though its a meager amount.
     
  50. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    A few dozen posters on Stratics is not the representatives of the entire UO communities of tens of thousands of players.

    If anything, if the community was really so anti-script, then you'd see *ALOT* more posts here, as complaining about cheats are allowed here and its a big issue if people really do have problems with it.

    You're right, judgment day for the game. And its you people bringing that about, not cheaters.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.