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Just another pancakes thread about speedhack.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Splup, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Heya,

    Just got killed by couple speedhackers so while waiting my statloss decided to come and whine here. Thou it was 3(only 2 speedhacking thou)vs1 so not like I wouldv won anyways. Well, now I go take something warm to drink and write couple e-mails, got 3 chars in loss so better start idling now, sometimes I get all my 5 PvP chars to statloss untill I bother idling, but it sucks if there's good PvP and all chars in loss :)

    Fix speedhack c'mon can't be that hard. Or maybe it can then.

    Cya around.
     
  2. I've never been involved in PVP (at least not voluntarily), but am curious. What exactly is speedhacking?

    I know its probably obvious to everyone but me but give a noob a break, eh?
     
  3. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    For real?

    Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig clue in the name.
     
  4. How can speed hack be fixed if its the same speed as the EC ? Maybe you were killed by people using EC?

    To stop the crying Maybe they just need to let the CC move as fast as the EC..end of speedhack then!
     
  5. LOL

    Just wan't sure if there was more to it than the obvious...
     
  6. Its where you turn you computer clock a few days forward and the game thinks your further ahead than you really are.
     
  7. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    ... :stretcher:
     
  8. jfkeach

    jfkeach Guest

    Here is a major hurdle to fixing Speedhacking. For it to work, it would have to be SERVER SIDE. Right now speed is determined by client and connection. The hack fools the client into going faster.

    Putting in a server side fix for this would mean they would basically double the load on every server. For every log in there would be a throttle check going on for every step taken. Or there would have to be a time check between the client and server, either way, it would introduce LAG and performance issues that would cause a bigger uproar than we have about speedhacks.

    They could put a check in the Client to see if certain programs were running. However there are laws against that in some countries as an invasion of Privacy. And the hackers would circumvent by simply renaming the executables. And it would not stop the hackers that create their own programs and don't share.

    They have been saying for years they were addressing the hacking problem. The reason it hasnt been done yet is because almost every fix they could put in would slow the system down.
     
  9. Splup

    Splup Guest

    There really isnt much there to it but the obvious. Lets you run faster (especially when making turns) then others. Enhanced Client also runs lot faster then CC (Same thing here, especially when making turns).
     
  10. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    /Thread. Well said.
     
  11. Chap

    Chap Babbling Loonie
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    /open thread

    Over the years there have been many speed hack fixes. But as always, once its fixed theres a new race to find new ways to speedhack.

    As for the serverside check, there is already a serverside check for steps, and it kicks in from time to time even for players not using speedhack.


    I have an alternative way to fix it:
    Increase spell cast range
    Increase arrow range
    Increase meelee hit range

    Then speedhacking or not you'll be in range. I remember t2a days when there was a wider range on spells you could get see e-bolts hit players out of screen. quite funny, but it works wonders. No more running redlined either.
     
  12. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    That would be brutal hahaha .. 70% more insta-kills in group fights.
     
  13. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
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    My son used to play the free shards and speedhacking was an everyday thing for those guys (it was legal on those shards) and my son would get so mad because I wouldn't let him put anything like that on my computer. I know it exists, I just don't know how to tell someone is doing it lol I only heard him talk about it, but never saw it in action. Something about them "jumping" across the screen is a way to tell someone is speedhacking? Hell, I dunno. But how do you prove it? If I saw someone doing that, I would probably assume I was lagging.
     
  14. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Do I remember wrong, I have this image in my head that back in the days I was running away from fireball and I kept running from the animation and dmg didnt hit me before the fireball caught me...

    Or then I just remember wrong.
     
  15. Chap

    Chap Babbling Loonie
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    Thats the animation.
    The animation is not the same as the dmg dealth.
     
  16. Cailleach

    Cailleach Certifiable
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    Another big clue is when someone on foot can outrun someone on a mount. Saw that happen on my husbands screen today too.

    *waves at Splup*
     
  17. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Was your Husband on classic or EC? Dsl or Cable? Speed? Computer configuration? Distance from your co? Noise in your line? Ping to server?Is pc and line optimized for fastest burst connections? Any other programs utilizing connection at the same time? latency? Registry-network optimizations running on pc? Memory-cpu utilization? Using network card optimize for gaming? Router-modem specifications? If on Dsl are you in interleave or Fast Path?If on cable how many more people are using the node at the same time as you? Is there a switch in your path from your home to your isp to ea servers that might be malfunctioning?
    In otherwords there are way to many variables between 1 person connection and the other person connection to even begin to explain any encounter in a technical standpoint.
     
  18. Theoraln

    Theoraln Guest

    Well considering all that you have mentioned I would agree that there are many variables that could cause some differentials between players and that tbh is perfectly acceptable.

    However me being a person of reasonable intelligance and fairly network literate. I find myself in a position to decern the difference between network, hardware and software anomalies and blatant third party application abbuse.

    So in otherwords just as you state "there are way to many variables" you should also treat others with some intelligence until you know differently and perhaps not just try a blind shot of tech speak that you may think will intimidate them.

    So to sum up and as a point of "fact" and taking all of your afore mentioned possible technical explainations into consideration I find it highly unlikely that any of those provide a reasonable explaination as to why some one on foot should be able to get off screen from me in a straight line whilst I am mounted in less than a few seconds whilst I am in pursuit.

    I would further add that whilst your observations and attempted explainations are more than welcome if you were not there then how can you possibly refute or attempt to sideline and debunk someones personal experience.
     
  19. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    this is a complete load of hooey. this is just the type of post a speedhacker would make to throw up an obstacle that allows speedhacks to continue unabated. this is the same logic as those who state that fixing cheating will ruin the game because so many will quit.

    it is easy to see who is guilty of it, just as it is plain for the eyes to see who was juicing steroids in baseball.
     
  20. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    i would trust anyone who pvps to spot a speed hack.
    the EC is barely faster than the classic. most people with decent computers and connections run just as fast as me(EC) in the Classic.
    Atlantic's EM did an event in fel fire island, and there was more than enough people who can out run me on foot mounted to ever say theres not a speed-hacking problem. I mean really, it was some impressive packet pushing going on.
     
  21. gjohnson5

    gjohnson5 Guest

    I agree to a certain degree. Even if one has a faster connection, bigger packets etc, shouldn't the server be bandwidth limiting faster connections to leave bandwidth available to slower connections? If not, then the slower connections would be handicapped even worse then they already are
     
  22. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Are you saying am a speedhacker? I am a pvp speedhacker? lol. Or am I a PVM speedhacker heh. It's hillarious at times might want to check that PVP has a small attention yo me in this game since AOS . If you have no Idea about what packets is, how they are affected and still think your IBM compatible with the turbo button is in style then trowing out accusations is not gonna help your standpoint. Want a speedhacker program I tell you how to do all the same configurations to your pc that those little utilities do.
    I give you a little assistance. check out some of my post in the tech forums look closer to the settings for nividia cards configure first packet settings and tcp/ip acceleration configuration. Teaming configuration will give you a smaller boost than the rest. Add those 3 together that should help with UO speed some to perhaps not see anymore people running circles around you. Don't have ATI so not sure if it has compatible settings.
     
  23. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    All of the above is code for yes, I am using a speedhack!

    Anytime you call anyone a speedhacker they muddy the waters with techno crap!

    Yes, everything you listed is a viable reason for speed but a hacker is a hacker!
     
  24. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Unfortunetely I muddy the waters with so called techno crap before anybody called me a speedhacker so I can stock my merchants quicker lol. Really check out the Tech forums you might get some advice on how to fix your system. Oh and translate this techno crap.
    01010000 01101100 01100101 01100001 01110011 01100101 00100000 01101100 01100101 01100001 01110010 01101110 00100000 01101000 01101111 01110111 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01101001 01101110 01100011 01110010 01100101 01100001 01110011 01100101 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01110011 01111001 01110011 01110100 01100101 01101101 00100000 01100001 01100010 01101001 01101100 01101001 01110100 01101001 01100101 01110011 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01110011 01110100 01101111 01110000 00100000 01100010 01110101 01111001 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01110000 01100011 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01101101 01100001 01110100 01100011 01101000 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101100 01101111 01110010 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01110010 01101111 01101111 01101101
     
  25. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    You can post all the #'s you want. You cannot set up your(or any PC) to outrun me on foot!

    I can't count how many players have posted screen shots and (by mistake) you can see the icon of the program they are running!
     
  26. Theoraln

    Theoraln Guest

    "Please learn how to increase your system abilities and stop buying pc to match the color of your room´┐Ż"

    Really base 2 is so 1980's zx spectrum try and move beyond it. Not to mention googling a binary translator is hardly proof of anything.

    NB for clarity the bold quotation is the translation for the binary code.
     
  27. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Your post was still kinda nonsense.

    I quess it's cause you don't PvP then. Take a player who PvP:s a lot, and he will be right prolly 14/15 times when he says someone is speedhacking, or 19/20.

    Lets say you take 3 experienced active PvP:rs (By experienced I mean ppl who have been in PvP scene for years and are not teenagers) from every shard, to pinpoint speedhackers.

    Then from pinpointed players we take group of 100.

    There would prolly be like 90-95 speedhackers and rest EC users. If your VEEERY lucky, there could be someone who actually has tweaked everything on his PC for maximum performance and he lives right next to server.

    What makes speedhackers different from people with fast comps and very low latency is tileskipping. They can skip like 4-6 tiles when you'r running without lag and you don't see any other players running on your screen jumping tiles. They might someone also hit you with melee character from many tiles away.

    Trust me, when you hang around in PvP scene long enough these guys are very easy to spot.
     
  28. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    with a powerful computer and EC yes you can run faster than cc, but not as fast as a cc speedhacker. end of discussion there.
    as for a fix, we all just need to remember how old and fragile the UO code is.
     
  29. Airhaun

    Airhaun Seasoned Veteran
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    Speedhacking is real and sadly has a broad and wide user-base.

    I tested the EC vs. CC client speed with my GM and we found that we ran at the same speed when we were running in a straight-line. Turning corners or cutting gave him a little boost. But even the advantages this test produced pale in comparison to those that we fight and use speedhacks.

    And for some validation/credibility I live in So. Cal and ping in the 20ms range. It's pretty easy for me to spot UO subscribers using speedhacking programs.
     
  30. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    This is exactly why I quit UO.

    The majority of people in UO who have been PvPing for years are cheating. From simple client mods like the tree stump hack to the always popular speeding programs. There is no point even trying to compete in UO PvP, unless you're willing to cheat or you're willing to be zerg meatshield #69 or simply settle for being a 2nd rate PvPer no matter how much you practice or how good your template/gear is.

    EA doesn't care about stopping the cheaters, they never have and never will and personally I don't feel like giving my money to a company that literally encourages cheating.

    *Pisses on EA and UO*
     
  31. Cailleach

    Cailleach Certifiable
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    I'll just point out here that this afternoon, my husband and another two guys from our guild were with Splup. Hubby hasn't played as long as them, but they are among the more experienced players on the shard, and he's no slouch; got a few years under his belt. Two of those three said the same thing on guildchat at the same time. I was looking over hubbys shoulder at the time and he said exactly the same - speeding.


    From my point of view, this sucks. The experienced pvp'ers in our guild are there because they're experienced, they don't cheat or trashtalk, and they're pretty good teachers. We take new and returning players mostly, and a fair few want to learn pvp. It can be extremely disheartening for them to discover that they will struggle no matter how much they practise or how good they get, because certain players cheat. It really puts folks off even wanting to learn. And then you have certain players, from certain guilds, who complain that there's no one for them to fight. Well hello boys, news flash. Folks don't want to play with cheaters - it isn't fun, it isn't productive and really, what's the point? If on Europa, pvp'ers want people to come back to Fel and make it fun again, then either certain players/guilds need to quit or they need to show that they've shut down the cheats (no idea how, but hey ho) All the tournies and offers of mentoring in the world won't make the slightest bit of difference - people don't trust them not to cheat anymore.
     
  32. mrrippletip

    mrrippletip Guest


    ha

    yeah when someone on foot outruns you on horseback...that's kind of a giveaway
     
  33. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    jfkeach hits the nail on the head with a 50lb sledge.

    To those claiming "no such thing as speedhack" or "it is just enhanced client", you have no clue.

    I ping low teens(10-13 usually) to a west coast server. There are a few "leet" PvPers that seem to outrun me while I am mounted and they are on foot... and at least one is in Hawaii. I'd say there might be a speed hack going somewhere:thumbup1:

    As for the fix, OSI/EA failed on one of the most basic tenants of server programming: "If you don't have control of the program sending stuff to the server, don't trust what is coming to the server." This was taught to me before UO was even in existence.

    The problem with trying to check everything coming to you is it will create SEVERE lag issues on the server.

    One thing they COULD do is do "packet" logging when a user is paged upon. Basically, count all the incoming packets of suspected speed hackers. If you get more than a reasonable number packets in a time frame, ban the account. This method would be fairly un-invasive. It would be "2 lines of code":
    if speed_hacking_flagged
    packet_count++

    As a base line, they could log an in the building player to determine best case number of packets. Lets say 5000 packets in 5 minutes. If anybody is counted close to this number, you can check location and ban as desired.
     
  34. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    My post is far from nonsence. It is technical. There are programs for speed hacking that work for classic client but if lets say all those programs were gone speedhacking will still exist as you can do some crazy modifications to your system and uo client without those silly programs.
    The speed cap on server side is still there thats why you don't see anybody running around the world in 20 seconds or the earlie days of UO now thats what you call a speedhack.
    When I use another person pc to play I can see the skipping and people going faster on foot than me though when I use my systems there might be some that go a little faster than me or alot slower than me but nothing to the degree that is mention here. So im just mentioning ways to keep most people that are using speedhack programs at bay so you don't really notice so much.
     
  35. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    Same here, its beyond ridiculous.



    Thats being too friendly........I would string them up by their eyeballs and skull **** them afterwards........this game HAD the best pvp in any PC game.

    xbox 360 ftw mw2 ftw
     
  36. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    No one speed hacks

    Let me state again

    NO ONE SPEED HACKS!

    I for one, know that I move so fast because of the running skill you get when you 120 Music Gm begging and slap on herding just for kicks (can't have any other combat REAL skill, you have those on jewels, just one though, the other jewel is your 70's resists and Mods n stuff so you can run around naked shooting the breeze) I move that fast because I hacked running to have 170 Running. God people are such whiney noobs, learn howz to pvpz


    How far did you get before you actually thought that post was enlightening?
     
  37. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Actually I'm pretty suprised that there's no people claiming here "There's no such thing as speed hack!" Wasn't too long ago when threads about speed hacks still got those.
     
  38. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Just thought I'd draw everyone's attention to this thread. What was it, a month ago now that the devs claimed they were working on some kind of third party app detection? We're still waiting for that one, as we have been for 13 years now...

    In my opinion, one of the worst problems with an out of control cheating problem is that you just don't know who is cheating, and who isn't. You may be beaten by someone, but you don't know whether to congratulate them for a well fought battle, or give them a stern lecture about being a cheap little cheater. You don't know whether you should try to emulate this player, or whether emulating them is impossible unless you are willing to stoop to cheating yourself.

    An out of control cheating problem, such as UO has had almost from day one, simply makes the game a whole lot less fun. And once again, I am considering cancelling my sub due to this problem, because I am starting to feel like I just can't compete with those who are willing to cheat, and there is simply no point in playing the game if you are going to spend your days being stomped on by cheaters.

    And the problem goes way beyond speed hacking. It is visual hacks that make the use of terrain tactically pointless. It is scripts and script engines that allow players to train or farm while they are sleeping, or at work. And I am sure that is a short version of a very long list.
     
  39. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Lets be fair here Splup, I dont speedhack and i die many times to those who do use speedhack and i die laods to those who dont allso. But you and i know that speedhacking only gives a real advantage when running round corners. If you run in a straight line you stand a fair chance of getting away.
     
  40. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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  41. Splup

    Splup Guest

    I used to think so too. But nowdays it doesnt matter. I'v found myself running straight and these guys making few turns and jump right in front of me. Also you usually can't run just straight you gotta watch out for trees, stones, mobs etc.

    And it's not always about "getting away", I'm just as often trying to get the last spell or what ever in when speedhacker flies off my screen, and he decides the route he's taking.
     
  42. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    lol nice rockets!
     
  43. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    You really don't have a clue on what you are talking about.

    First, google WoW Warden. Read up on that, the lawsuits, what it does and why it is legal.

    Secondly, there are more ways to detect 3rd party programs other than just looking for exe files.

    Anyone who thinks they can subvert detection programs just by renaming the exe (or dlls)...well, please continue to do so. Well, if it was a bad program, yeah, it would work. But for one that is any good- no chance in hell.
     
  44. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    I used to bot World of Warcraft with MMOGlider. It hid itself from RAM (so Warden couldn't find it when scanning RAM) plus it didn't directly inject to the client but instead executed everything through dll calls.

    When Warden was updated Glider had to be updated as well. Banwaves occurred when a Warden update went unnoticed by the Glider devs :)
     
  45. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    Speedhacking would be a easy fix honestly I don't think EA knows how to edit the clients source though...

    They use scripts to do things on the client :/

    A easy fix would be to only allow the flow of the run packets to come in at a specific speed. So unless your on some terrible connection you would run just as fast as a guy pinging .1 to the shard....

    Don't forget there are legit players out there who are just fast due to their connection to the shard BUT there are some people who crank it up to max and thats how they play, a good example of a person on max would be the guy is a screen behind ya, he passes one guy on a mount, gets infront of you, jumps off a mount and gets you dismounted <<< of course you just got to kill em anyways (keep a bola or a heavy handy :p)
     
  46. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    LoL I imagine that happening in UO. 50% player base gone overnite game closed end of month. Oh well kids willl be kids.
     
  47. Airhaun

    Airhaun Seasoned Veteran
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    Brilliant!! Cailleach has intelligently articulated the core arguments and resulting damage speedhacking does to PvP, guilds, and the UO community in general. I know in our guilds we are experiencing increased membership, activity, and interest in PvP. It's such a tragedy to watch these people experience those we fight using speedhacks and then watch them experience the powerless feeling and frustration when they realize that it isn't only the challenge of learning how to PvP, but that they are fighting people who cheat and use programs that give them an unfair & unnecessary advantage.

    Speedhacking is against EA policy so those who use it have no moral compass and lack integrity. Hard to respect speedhackers. Speedhacking enables one to chase down those not using speedhacks as well as run away from those not using speedhacks when their health is low. Speedhackers are cowards and are not relying on their skill to fight. For some reason they have decided they are not good enough to fight by the rules and possess such poor PvP skills they need external and illegal 3rd party programs to allow them to compete.

    No matter how skilled you think you are, how many people you've killed, or that you're little group of 5 can take out a group of 20... if you're using 3rd party programs to make you faster than legit players, to 'float' over stumps, exploits to give you 150 Stats across the board and other illegal advantages in PvP, you are NOT relying on true skill and therefore are unable to claim anything that resembles PvP prowess.
     
  48. kalzaketh

    kalzaketh Guest

    ouch,little background info, on ea they can't fix what they purposely installed the hack, to myself is part of the paragon superspeed, I have noticed, the paragon bypasses normal speed requirements by introducing alag field that slows the pc but not it and so it can cross the screen in two steps. :) mineown observations of game mechanics atwork
     
  49. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Yep. And even many experienced PvP:rs quit cause of hacks, so no wonder unexperienced players rather just give up then try to master PvP.
     
  50. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    That's what the cheaters say to try to scare developers into inaction when it comes to cheating. It's a version of the "everybody's doing it" lie. Yes they would lose some subs, and maybe quite a few, if they introduced an effective anti-cheat app, but there are ways for them to mitigate that, such as a grace period when they hand out temporary bans instead of permanent ones, and the net effect in the long run, I am confident in this, is that they would gain subscriptions, not lose them.

    The developers' inaction when it comes to cheating, throughout the history of UO, has been horrible for the game, and horrible for the reputation of the developers and the publishers, and I think has cost the publishers a lot of money. Their occasional police actions have been good publicity, but in the final analysis have been woefully inadequate, and have failed to address 99.9% of the actual cheating that has been going on in the game.