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Just get rid of Fel!

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by Coragin, Jan 11, 2010.

  1. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    lol I just heard about 300,000 virtual guns get ready to fire!

    Get rid of Fel, make all pvp go through factions and work anywhere.

    Simple and to the point. Whining pvp'rs crying over faction arties in tram, like once you join a faction you cant ever pvm again. Whiny pvp'rs that no one ever comes to fel, blah blah. So why not make the best of both worlds? I am sure trams wont mind. Just completely destroy the Fel facet and let pvp be anywhere so long as you are in a faction. Its that simple. Then everybody wins.

    Have fel exist for murderers and same faction killers. Gotta put em somewhere right? And same faction killers are a problem anyways, so the only way you can go red is by killing someone in the same faction as you. Since your in the same faction you should not be killing your allies anyways. So if you go red, your restricted to the current Fel ruleset. So long as you only kill enemy factions, your all fine.

    Then Tram T2A gets some love for the champs there, Tok champ and ish champs get some love and everybody wins. Just make all champs drop power scrolls, and let all pvp'rs have pvp anywhere.

    Now it would truly be a fair game, you dont have to pvp if you dont want to, you can choose to as I am and full time trams wont have to buy all their powerscrolls.

    Can you imagine the community come to life with all this? A harrower popped and TONS will show up. I am willing to bet all champs will be getting love and always have people at them.

    Discuss without being rude to one another. A simple reply of "No" is not discussing either that shows you have no brains to make a rational arguement, same with rudeness. Point, Counter-Point is discussing. Ive made some points, lets hear some add ins or alterations.
     
  2. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Like get rid of the land mass? Or the rule set? I wouldn't care personally. Insurance makes pvp stupid anyway. Just leave siege how it is. :D
     
  3. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    Just get rid of Tram (make all current Tram areas Fel ruleset), PvP everywhere. Return the game to its former glory.

    Destroy Tram over Fel. Why? Simple reason, Fel (FKA Britannia) was here first.

    This would fix a major problem - whining Trammies - there would be no such thing as Trammel or Trammies! Man, those were the days...
     
  4. XavierGL

    XavierGL Guest

    The same could be said for getting rid of Tram, trammies cry just as much as anyone so why should a person suffer just because they enjoy playing a diffrent aspect of the game?? I rather enjoy playing my reds, and you have to admit that playing in fel does make it a little more excing, rather than standing back saying "all kill" collect your gold and then stand at luna bank bragging about how you just rocked a dragon. PvP adds a little more challenge to every aspect of the game and little more danger and just allot more fun...... anyways my 2 cents
     
  5. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    Xavier, sorry you feel sick right now, get better soon.

    But why not have pvp everywhere? Yes you should be punished for killing people. But I would hardly call pvp in most aspects besides defending a spawn fair. I was introducing a friend to factions and how they work the other day. I take him to our base and show him the stone, what it does, how to check cities ect, explaining silver and how it works ect. When this same faction ghost walks in, I can see him and talk due to 100 SS, I ask if he wants a res (not remembering were not in same guild cant res him) he says yes. I res him with chiv, almost instantly 5 SL run in when Im at 1hp and rush me. Call that a tactic? Sending in your mule as a ghost to get someone to res you and with 1 hp rush with 5 people? 5 people for one guy is overkill but 5 people for one guy with 1 hp? Come on...

    Anyways, this proposal if anything opens up the playing field for everyone.
     
  6. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    If you are referring to getting rid of the land mass of Felucca itself, that would be somewhat horrid on some shards, where player run towns still exist and remain standing since 97/98. :(

    Moving those to Trammel still would not cut it, because some of these player run towns have things/deco. etc. etc. that were added to them by EA seers etc. ages ago, that can never be replaced. Heck there is even a sign plaque in Fel. PaxLair on Chesapeake has the orig. Lord British's own placing of said plaque which is hung over a building there on Chesapeake.

    Nah too much history would be lost, to just get rid of the fel land mass..and tossing player run towns that been around since back in the day,& still are there still not decayed to oblivion, speak volumes of a bygone era of Ultima Online, it's history and even show how much EA once DID for its customers.These towns may be a unique dying breed, choc full of history of a 12 yr old world of UO. These still existing player run towns, need to be preserved, not destroyed !

    If they would get rid of fel and move those still existing historic, UO feluccan player run towns, these player run towns, would never survive the move losing all their history, nor would they ever be the same in...TRAMMEL or anywhere else, they need to be kept, right where they belong right where they ARE, in Felucca !
     
  7. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    This isn't a horrible idea but its definitely not a good one.

    You would be killing part of UO if you removed the Fel ruleset.

    Aside from that, what would become of dungeon champ spawns?
     
  8. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    I didnt mean remove Fel as in the facet, keep that, have it have the same rules. But add all champ spawns in Tram to the Fel loot drop, allow faction pvp in Tram.

    Makes sense to me, then factioners cannot complain about faction arties in Tram, pvp can be anywhere you want it to be, PS come from all champs and everyone can raid eachother, harrower can be popped in either fel or tram, anyone in a faction can pvp anywhere. I like the idea of pvp anywhere and its consentual, not forced upon someone. I would be exstatic!

    Would have to make non-faction towns like Luna able to call guards. Besides that, outside town all is go! And have the Tram side of faction towns be able to do sigels and stuff. I think this could be a good thing.

    I foresee if this ever goes live, a ton of pvp'rs running around just looking for those trams wearing faction arties lol. Bloodbath city :)
     
  9. Paps

    Paps Journeyman
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    Regardless if it`s a good/bad idea,,,that sounds like a whole lot of time/work [labor hours=$$] that i just don`t see EA dumping into this game ATM.
    We did just get an expansion recently and EA has cut back on employees.
    I severly doubt that anything is on the agenda that throws more money into this game for a LONG time.

    As for the idea itself,,,i don`t see it happening either.
    if they wanted pvp battles in tram they wouldn`t have dropped the order/chaos thing
    if they wanted tram ruleset champs to drop scrolls theyd havee allready done it [try to remember the reason champ scrolls were made fel only was to give a reason to enter pvp areas]
    this also would allow the same kinda crap that non-faction blues do in guard zones [casting walls of stone to block movement,ect]
    you got 5 vs 1 after ressing in fel,,,guess what,,theyll then be able to do the same after you res someone not even in factions.
    givin ther prolly should be some kinda drawback to killing members of your
    own faction,,but whatever that may be i`m sure some meathead will find a way to exploit it.
     
  10. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    Defo agree that factions should be active in Tram ruleset, no reason why theuy shouldn't be IMO!

    Powerscrolls shouldn't ever be in Tram though. Fel only :thumbup1:
     
  11. Reximus

    Reximus Guest

    Redirect Trammel anti-virtue dungeons to Felucca, noone uses them anyway, put a warning box up like when entering the SA spawns.
     
  12. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Your logic is flawed, if getting rid of tram got rid of the trammies...how did tram come to exist? The trammies were already there thus would continue whining...

    also, siege.
     
  13. Miriandel

    Miriandel Seasoned Veteran
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    From someone PvPing since 1997, in UO, then Asheron's Call, then EVE Online and some other titles including WoW PvP servers (where there is no trammel) I've come to believe PvP, especially open PvP, brings the worst of human behaviour and very rarely the better.

    E-peen stroking, trash talking, noto PKing, what I see daily has an awful testosterone stench.
    I run champion spawns whenever I want, playing on a dead shard, but I'd be glad the fel ruleset would disappear all together.
    The only reason I can see it still existing is for some feeling of danger spicing things up a little, but even that is debatable.

    Back in the days, Richard and DD could never pull out any working reputation system. Whatever they did, 'creative' players would always get around the rules, the less respectfull people always coming out on top.
    Some could argue: like IRL.
    Excepted you can't slaughter people 'for free' IRL.
     
  14. No. PS's belong, and need to stay, in Fel. Same for PvP.
     
  15. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Ok, so first you say "Get rid of Fel!" And then "Keep Fel for people killing own factioneers". So you don't want rid of fel, why you put that to your Title then?

    What you really want is Champspawns and Harrowers with Powerscrolls to Trammel, and that faction fights extent to Trammel too instead of just felucca.

    There are many threads about putting champs to trammel, and there's arguments to both ways.

    The ones who want PS:s to trammel say:
    "Why we need to pay for PS:s, why can't we obtain em with our own playing style. Not everyone likes PvP"

    "Only few guilds have access to Powerscrolls and they dominate the markets"

    "To get PS:s we need to support the guild that prevents us from getting PS:s ourselves!"

    You got the main point, they want to be able to get powerscrolls without paying or having a risk of getting PK:d.

    Then the ones who want PS:s to stay only in felucca say:
    "Why we need to pay to trammies for our Artifacts/HPI int robes/WhatEverIsAvailableOnlyInTrammel, why can't we have those with our gaming style (PvP)? Why can't we have them in Felucca?"
    (Thou now there's faction arties, but that doesn't cover all the arties. And you need to take statloss risk to get em, risk vs reward)

    "Both facets have something the other doesn't, that's there to keep all facets alive"

    "It's Risk Vs Reward"

    "Anyone can get PS:s for themselves, just get group big enough or do spawns at some other then primetime and somewhere else then in Despice" (Which is true on many shards atleast).

    "Create your own strong PvP PS hunting guild, you think the ones that exist just popped out of nowhere?"

    If you want to get more arguments you could go check those threads.

    Then there's also threads about letting factioneers fight in trammel too. I like that idea, can't remember the main arguments from either side atm. thou.

    My personal opinion:

    Faction fights in trammel? Yeah I could go for that. Would also solve the problem of faction arties taken for PvM only and never coming to fel. Would just prolly have to take some char out of faction to stock my vendor with.

    I like Risk vs Reward system. To get powerscrolls, you need to take a risk and step to Felucca.

    Now the main problem lies there that most of trammel players have no idea about PvP, and 10 well geared players straight from trammel can get destroyed by 2-3 experienced PK:s, cause they know what they are doing. And then there's stuff like speed hack (Not everyone uses, they are minority on most shards atleast, but there most likely is speed hackers on all shards). And there's also scripts (Same thing here, minority would be my quess).

    But the cheats are there. And just knowing that they are there, even if it's minority using em, keeps people away from Felucca.

    Fix cheats and make some dueling arenas (1vs1, 2vs2, 3vs3) etc. to trammel. Players there can try out and learn basics of PvP in safe environment where they feel like being. Now maybe after that coming to fel to try to get your PS:s yourself would not feel that big obstacle.

    Both facets have their unique features, there's no need to rip Felucca off from it's unique features and give them all to Trammel.
     
  16. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    TY Splup for sayiing what I was about to -

    the OPs post changed to wanting Fel spawns in Tram - NNNN OOOOOO:stir:

    However I do agrea with Faction Fighting being allowed in Tram.

    :stretcher:

    If you are in a faction you shuold be fighting for it no matter were you are or simply do NOT allow the faction arties to be worn in Tram. Sadley i do it too but I would happily give it up if i had to.

    :rant2:
     
  17. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I don't know how much Garriott had to do with the design, he seemed to be far in the background. Koster was in on it, but he's such a team player that his own beliefs go by the wayside.

    The problem was that they always tried to give the PKers game play, and a way out of any punishment. Ya know, you can't have it both ways....

    -You can't cut PKing down much if you don't really punish them for doing it
    -You can't have total freedom if you add artificial restrictions
    -You can't allow players to enforce social "right" if they can't take on players who didn't break coded laws, but are doing other things just to be a jerk and mess up what players are doing.

    Had they allowed the 3 kills per week before going "red", made the punishment for reds kick in on death instead of after they macroed the time off to avoid it, made those who helped the PKers go gray (blue healers stayed blue at the time), and not made a player go "gray" for defending themselves (this lead to the trick of stealing attempts to get someone to attack the PKer, so they could kill them for free because the defending player went gray to them for attacking them)....then the justice would have worked while still allowing players a little buffer to handle those who skirt the code.

    But no, PKers didn't want to deal with punishment, non-PKers lost all faith that anything would work, and MMORPGs lost a "realism" in law and order and a social glue that will never be back unless someone takes a "chance".
     
  18. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    The OP has me real confused. Kill Fel, Keep Fel in the same post. Bah phooey.

    OK, factions fight on both facets. I'll buy that for a dollar.

    Champ spawns in Tram T2A. I'll buy that for a dollar on condition that they operate on the same rule sets as the other Tram champ spawns.

    Power Scrolls need to remain in Fel. Even though I spend the majority of my time playing Tram, I still think if folks want the great reward of power scrolls, they should incur the risk it takes to EARN them.
     
  19. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Bullsh!t. It's feeding one player type over another for the most important items in the game.
     
  20. Agreed on Faction fights in Tram. We should have to fight for our faction no matter where we are.
    Probably wont happen though. The trammies who get the arties just to have them would omg cry! I bet those are the trammies that are going to sit here and say keep it in Fel. That way they dont have to fight for their "faction".
    The Trammies who arent in Factions shouldnt care one way or another because it wouldnt effect them.
     
  21. Bull****. It's giving the PvP playstyle a reward for participating in it, which is no different than the artifacts that are given for participating in the PvM playstyle. There's absolutely no reason at all they both can't have their individual rewards.
     
  22. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    Whining little fellies......is more like it. There isn't a large enough fellie population to justify its existence. Because it was the online versions 1st facet??, bfd, that doesn't show anything, except that it was a failed concept.

    One persons like doesn't represent the playerbase as a whole. Also note, I played UO long before the online version existed and I knew of trammel and fellyland.

    .....as far as looking back on those were the days, dude, a 70 Mustang was far more superior to the tin trash on the roads today, but guess what?? that was in the past man, stop living in the past......(Seinfeld scene between the clown and george referring to Bozo)
     
  23. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    QFT! :thumbup1:

    I would rather enjoy not getting slaughtered whether it be at the begining of a spawn, the middle of a spawn or after a spawn. My shard is fairly quiet but is getting more popular for some reason (Scroll farmers I'm fairly certain, although nobody would admit it) so most of the time my group can do spawns with little to no trouble but every so often I have been slaughtered like a lamb and to perfectly honest I just don't like to PvP. And I can't understand why anyone would chase someone down that just started a spawn to kill them when they would obviously have nothing to loot. "Oh boy 5k gold worth of insurance, I'm really making a huge profit today." Everyone should have access to Powerscrolls without the chance of being killed and dry-looted. Last time I was killed someone took my unraveling bag with like 10 things in it, I mean seriously? "20 residue, I'm rich!"
     
  24. Llwyd

    Llwyd Guest

    The time to have done that was before the split between Tram and Fel. It actually may have worked then. But too many players with homes and history in Fel would be adversely impacted if Fel was eliminated. The result would very likely be a loss of subscriptions, and that would not bode well for the life expectancy of UO.

    I personally don't care for Fel (or Seige, after spending only one day there). Killing (or being killed) without just cause simply does not appeal to me or my sense of justice and fair play, which is why I prefer Trammel. But that play style has always existed in UO, and the players who choose it would not accept the proposed change at this late date in UO history.
     
  25. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    Most people PvP because they enjoy it. If you didn't have to PvP to get all the rewards, would you still do it? If your answer is yes, then it doesn't hurt to have Powerscrolls in Tram because you like to PvP and still could because this wouldn't harm you in any way. If your answer is no then you would still benefit from having Powerscrolls in Tram because you would only have to PvP if you wanted to and you could still get the "finer things in life."
     
  26. You don't have to PvP to get PS's. You can PvM for arties, then sell or trade for PS's. The fact of the matter is that PvP deserves it's own rewards for the playstyle. Take PS's away and you take away the one thing that is PvP only. Your logic could be turned completely around and applied to PvM'rs, and thus is not applicable. Each playstyle has their own rewards, and deservedly so.
     
  27. If powerscrolls ever go to Tram, it better be because Tram has the Fel ruleset. =/
     
  28. qft
     
  29. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Tell you what. I'd give you the Artis from Trammel, you give up the Powerscrolls in Fel only.

    We should both be happy with that, but I suspect that you wouldn't be.

    There are two reasons why Fel PKers want Powerscrolls on Fel only.
    1) They have the most important items in the game under their control, for power and money (both in-game and real life money).
    2) It draws Trammies into Fel, and without the Trammies Fel PKers can't have any fun, because PvP with other PvPers just isn't enough for most of you.

    Its funny how PKers can't enjoy PvP with their own kind, and need the canon fodder.
     
  30. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    What do you get if you cross a Roleplayer with a PKer?

    Someone who organizes a group and when Trammies come to Fel they shout out "Gank squad, arouse thyselves!"
     
  31. Too bad I'm 100% trammie. Guess that pretty much shoots down any logic you may have been able to come up with. And guess what.......I've gotten well over 60 PS's and not one of them was obtained from PvP.
     
  32. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Just had to note how they moved this thread, but I've never seen them move similar threads dedicated to getting rid of Trammel.

    *shrugs*

    -Galen's player
     
  33. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    That's possible, but it still doesn't shoot down the facts generally speaking.
    But now I see why you personally want to maintain the status quo of Powerscrolls/Felucca/make-hard-to-get, you rich bastage!
     
  34. Llwyd

    Llwyd Guest

    Interesting observation.
     
  35. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    Quit your crying, and throwing a lame attempt to use profanity in a PC sense. The fact is if one player type over another is getting fed, it's because you chose your play style and will not adapt to the changing environment. If you want great things, take the comensurate great risk. Otherwise, plop your happy arse back in your chair and continue to feed their vendors. I'm tired of dealing with a culture of people who think everything should be handed to them on a plate because they don't want to do what it takes to achieve something.

    And for the record, no, I'm not an avid PvP'r.
     
  36. Kirthag

    Kirthag Former Stratics Publisher
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    Bring back the BOUNTY SYSTEM and PvP across all facets!

    Damn... I miss bounty hunting....
     
  37. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    Faulty arguement as most of the Fel players I know also cross over into tram to get them. Suck it up, buttercup! If you want Fel rewards, go to Fel to get them. Otherwise, you are just acting the whiney sniveling fool who wants something for little to no effort.
     
  38. The one and only reason I argue for PS's to stay in Fel every time the subject comes up is the same reason I've already given. PvP'rs deserve a reward for their playstyle just as much as crafters deserve rewards for theirs and PvM'rs deserve the same.

    Rich? Nah. Very well off?

    Maybe...
     
  39. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I have no problem with PKers getting rewards. I have a major problem with them having a stranglehold on a major aspect of character development.
    Not, no, not a stranglehold, having it used to suck players into their game, sitting like ducks on a pond, just waiting for PKers to scout them out, determine numbers, and come after them like frenzied hyenas scenting a wounded calf.
     
  40. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Hey, PKing is the easiest thing in the world, and having players made to act as sacrificial lambs to get what they need to advance their character is lame as hell.

    Disregarding ghost cams and other cheats, PKers can send blues around to the predetermined spots to scout out players, who have to spend quite a bit of time to finish their plan. They can jump on any number of forms of communication and gather the numbers they need. Then they can simply overwhelm the players trying to get their powerscrolls. The worst part is that players have to go to Fel and go through this repeatedly to get what they need.

    Isn't that easy? Yeah, real tough for the PKers. Risk vs. reward and all that, yeah. And you're calling me a "buttercup" and a "whiney sniveling fool"? You, who doesn't want to lose the easy rewards that other players spent most of the time "earning"? YOU? lol
     
  41. Splup

    Splup Guest

    I usually hate when ppl say this but... Learn to PvP.

    If you can PvM, do that and get the money for PS. If you are willing to learn PvP, you can create team that is able to defend themselves.

    Get your guild using ventrilo and get someone to teach you guys to PvP. After that they cant just come and take the spawn from you.

    If they always have more numbers then you, your guild has to make the champs at times when those guilds are unactive, or get more members.

    The raiding players are not some invicible players going around, they can be killed just like your char can be killed.

    Anyone can do champs, it's just a matter of either time and place or skill and/or numbers. Best way to do it, get some experienced PvPrs and champers to your guild and they can teach the rest. Or then join some existing champ guild with some character, if you don't want to go through the trouble of creating guild that can fight them.

    Or then make T2A/deceit champs nere serverdown, before or after, usually no players checking those spawns at that time. Cant say that for all servers but atleast on the ones I have played.

    Hope this helps.
     
  42. Coyt

    Coyt Guest

    Id like to see a Fel shard only(not siege, isay it again so you see it, NOT SIEGE)
    and a Tramm shard only
     
  43. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Play Siege.
     
  44. XavierGL

    XavierGL Guest

    Spoken like a true trammie!!!!!! No one ever asked you to come to fel, the same as no one ever asks me to come to tram, as for your dismounting "bum rush" tactics. Well yes it is PvP it's called tactics...... if you have a numbers advantage well then use it to your advantage. And no PS's should not ever be part of tram for any reason it's a reward that must be earned for going to fel, or you work your butt off and buy it. And from what I have seen on vendors in UO lately, the tramies are making just as much gold off of imbuing ingredients as we do off of power scrolls, hmm maybe Tammur should be fel rules also???????

    I'ts a no risk no reward system...... get used to it :)
     
  45. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    First of all, I'm not really a hard core Fel player. However, I have had the benefit of doing a couple of spawns, and I did get to participate in taking down a Harrower. Bottom line, is you're still crying, you're still whining, and you've pretty much given up. So, yes, until you buckle down and do what it takes to actually win a spawn and stop your whiney drivel, you will still be a "buttercup" and a "whiney sniveling fool."
     
  46. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    /Thread. :stir:
     
  47. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Not into PvP. Rarely go to Fel. Don't even know what harrower looks like (Is she cute? Is she available?). High level powqer scrolls should remain in Fel. I have exactly 5 skills scrolled to 120:

    Tailoring - got on my own
    Blacksmithy - got on my own
    Embueing - got on my own
    Animal Lore - Given to me
    Veterinary - Given to me

    Even with this, I still have fun in this game. I think that unless you PvP, you can make due with the lower level scrolls (especially with scroll binders) until you buy what you need, or make what you need.
     
  48. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Not when you come up against people who know how to PvP it isn't. It's only easy when your fighting someone who has no clue about PvP or is just terrible at it.

    If you ever PvPed you would know that.
     
  49. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

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    Logical.
     
  50. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    if the trammies want ps scrolls and open faction pvp in tram rulesets with spawns giving the same rewards, then only faction players should be allowed to enter spawn areas.....at no time should a non combatant trammie be allowed to gain free access to scrolls.....you dont like fel....stay the hell out.....buy the scrolls you seek.....and if you say you cant make gold....i laugh at thee....as a pvper who has all his chars in factions...including my mule......i make more gold in tram rulesets than fel ones so what the hell are you crying about.......pvp yields little reward except the adrenaline....there is no money to be made in fel as even powerscrolls dont sell for sheet anymore.

    you already get the chance to get a replica drop, and more gold is made in tram than fel so stop the bs about get rid of fel......id prefer to see it like the old days were and get rid of tram......let the pvp be done throughout the entire game....and kill all the whining trammies that hide there in thier faction gear to which they should not be allowed to wear........

    the whole game stinks at the moment......pvp is ******** and pvm is lame and the loot is crap......all you stratics whiners got every damn piece of pixel crap you ever whined for and you still dont stop......while we still wait after ten years for pvp to be fixed......

    jesus....quit uo already