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Just thinking bout potential shard changes

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Uvtha, Nov 5, 2015.

  1. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Having been active since a bit before ToL came out, I have to say I don't think I have seen siege more dead than it is right now. As I have said before, that's probably just a game wide issue, but... we're still dealing with it.

    Now I think that making changes to gain new players is pointless, it just won't work. People either are ok with open pvp or they aren't, period. That's the only thing that substantially matters IMO, and changing it so that there was pvp safety or limitations on item loss, would be the two things I think you cannot change and maintain the siege concept.

    That said, I wonder if now wouldn't be a good time to examine what changes could be made not to help get new players but to improve the quality of life for those of us who do play here and want to play here. I feel like many of the "added challenge" elements were good 16 years ago, but after the years of bleed over development warping the shard we now need HELP rather than hindrances. So maybe we could at least cut down some of those artificial barriers. I think we had this conversation earlier in the year, seems like a fine time to revisit it.

    To me, there are two glaringly obvious changes that should be made.

    1) Remove 3x hireling vendor fees. This one is the biggest no brainer. The smaller the pop gets, the longer stuff sits on vendors, the worse this becomes. I see 0 upside to keeping it. I feel like it should have been done away with a lonnnng time ago. Anything that makes it easier to stock vendors is a good change.

    2) Remove the 3x npc vendor cost. There are several big reason I would make this change... the most obvious is gems. When you can't insure your suit you are going to have to replace it regularly, especially if you pvp. Gems being so gd expensive really makes this a lot more painful than it should be. Then you have things like lobster traps, cooking ingredient. The only people this potentially hurts are those who sell these items, a very rare breed.

    Then you have another more potentially damaging change...

    1) Second character slot. We all have 100 soul stones. Damage has been done. Would be nice, but not a game changer. I feel with specialization in gear if you want to do anything serious like pvp or higher end pvm you have to make your own stuff, so you pretty much must have at least imbuing. We all know you can't really sell imbued stuff of services very efficiently.

    Then some changes I think are good, and not that harmful at all, but would require dev time so they will never ever occur.

    1) Increase drop rate on everything functional, i.e. not deco. Artifacts, Blackthorn items, marties, rare resource drops (gems, fungus etc) whatever. This stuff was designed to be not only basically permanat once you get it, but also for a lot more people to grinding after it. If we could spend a long day/weekend/week in blackthorns, or a boss runs to get an item rather than potential months then maybe an actual market could develop for these items, and replacing them wouldn't be so costly that people might run them unblessed.

    2) A item slot machine paid for with silver points. You could pick armor, weapon, or jewelry. You get a random item from Major magic-Legendary artifact, all will be antiques. Pvpers need good gear, pvpers shouldn't have to pvm or rely on pvmers to gear. This wouldn't be a complete gearing system obviously because of the randomness and antiques, but it could help, and it would encourage participating in VvV.

    As I say nothing that requires any substantial dev time will get done, so instead, along those same lines:

    1) Siege wide Fel bonuses, both double resources and the +1000 luck bonus.

    Again just to make it a little easier to keep things rolling, simple change (I imagine).


    I think what the shard really needs is a full (even if small or even if a regular small portion) of dev time to actually examine how the game works here, and how the conceptual issues are actually working and find creative new methods to deal with the very real issues we have. Dreaming I know, but there it is.

    I know we have probably covered all this ground before, but any thoughts or additional suggestions?
     
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  2. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    Re: recent deadness of shard.

    1. During ToL testing, I know several folks from siege spent game time there. This definitely made it seem less active.

    2. At ToL release, I know several folks (even hardcore regular Siege players) went back to prodo. Heck, I bumped into several of them. The shadowguard arties are of much more interest on prod than here.

    3. Treasures of Doom released for the second year in October. The reward items for this, mostly the boots, are very good on prodo. I've farmed almost 140 doom arties there so I have my boots for the coming year. On siege the demand isn't as high.

    4. Some key folks have been absent. Vinnie changed schedules and he was always available for VvV in the past. Fean quit bc of real life job and to play casually on a free shard. Morgan hasn't been around much. Freja got sucked into castle land. Bo gave up trying to find folks to kill and has instead cornered the market on primers. So the pvp base needs revitalizing.

    5. Stratics has suck ass lately. The siege forum is generally active, but when the site breaks every day prior stop checking, and thus stop coordinating shard activities, as much.

    Just my observations.
     
  3. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    The last weeks, I had been in Tiger land :)
    I know I had not been in VvV towns for a while, may go a while before I'm back there.
     
  4. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Having the NPC vendors start buying goods on Siege might help keep some people who come to check our home out. Bazaar vendors are not buying enough at decent prices for people to make much gold and that leaves them with only the gold from monsters while they try to get settled in here, with our higher NPC pricing.
     
  5. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    The 3x vendor fees have been gone for quite some time now.

    Publish 58 - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia

    "Removed the 3X player vendor costs on Siege/Mugen"


    Say Hi in GC when you log on. Simple signs of life does a lot to give a feel of activity on the shard.

    Start doing stuff together. Co-ordinate hunts in GC or on these boards so the lone wolves can meet up with and see that there are other players out there.
    And if the real wolves show up, hey, even more people online.

    I agree, it´s time to re-build the shard and we all must do our part...
     
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  6. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Siege really needs a Trammel rules facet if it wants more people
     
  7. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I hope that will never happen. It's not only monster loot, you would be able to sell to vendors but also scripted crafting and gathering stuff.
    An other bad thing is, you will see alot more dry looting, when wannabe PK's sell everything on your body to npc's. True they can't do it on their red but most do have 2 accounts.
     
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  8. Max Blackoak

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    I agree with most of your ideas Ikichet.

    Lower vendor fees combined with increased drop rates and Fel bonus would help.

    I am not a fan of additional character slots though. I agree that imbuing is essential for chars today but this is taken care of with soulstones.

    The item slot machine would basically be the VvV artifacts. I guess I could live with that if it would revive PvP. Make the items lootable and useable by others so those evil PKs don't get too much of an advantage over the poor PvM chars. Basically the concept behind this would be that PvPers would have to do less specialized PvM in order to equip. Sounds fair enough to me. I like the idea of making those items antique and thus create the necessity to replace them often.
     
  9. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    This was not a post about getting more people.
     
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  10. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I don't care too much about a second character, it would just be nice to have the ability to have a different rp persona or a separate pvp character, or just a different non pvp set up without buying a new account. I just figure everyone already has soul stones, so the damage has already been done.

    As for the faction items, there may have to be more thought put into it because it could be abusable, but I dunno.
     
  11. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Didn't realize, my bad!
     
  12. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Just allow factions items but make them useable of all and let them drop as loot too, maybe same way as the Covetous and Eodon drop, just cross Siege spawn. VvV can then get them from PvP and non PvP from killing monsters. VvV will have more control over what item they get.
    Also, I don't see why you only get silver for killing VvV enemies in Battle towns, maybe we would see more action, if you always got some silver, when killing an enemy VvV.

    I agree, a second char slot would not hurt.
     
  13. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Are there limitation on how much silver you can get from killing one person? If not you could just have people team up to kill each other for points. I haven't heard anything like that so there must be a safeguard?
     
  14. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    As far I know, you only get a little gold, and there is a limit for when you can get silver/kill from killing the same person. You could make it once a day if outside battle town, then it would not be worth cheating for. You get more silver for guarding claiming the alter or turn in the sigel
     
  15. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Ah very good.
     
  16. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    I still think the greatest problem we have is the lack of a NEW guild.

    I know that it takes a lot of effort to keep it going - but it is the single most important thing we could do to bring back the shard.

    I was against removing the house restrictions, I was against advanced characters and I am against adding a second slot (ok it would be handy especially for use as 6 soul stones).
     
  17. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    What do you suggest?
     
  18. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Oh! And DrAj... I used to be against everything too... especially soulstones.
     
  19. Victim of Siege

    Victim of Siege Crazed Zealot
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    I am at the point that I do not care what happens, as long as they don't put a Tram ruleset anywhere near Siege. othere than that, I'm good *scratches*
     
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  20. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Me too, but, when life gives one lemons...
     
  21. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Again this isn't about "reviving the shard" it's about accepting that the population is low, and no reason to expect thats going to change substantially. Having accepted that, how csn quality of life be increased for thoses of us left.
     
  22. Spiffykeen

    Spiffykeen Seasoned Veteran
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    Are you talking about putting us in hospice, rat lady? Because hospice with double resources would be fine with me
     
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  23. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Let us transfer in our deco items from prodo, with them locked to our accounts so that they cannot be sold, given away, handed to anyone else, or heck even trashed for cleanup points, to remove the terror of DUPES!!!!!!! people running around screaming in horror DUPES!!!!!! DUPES!!!!! *AAAHHHHH!!!!!

    O.k. it's not 'quite...' that extreme a reaction the idea gets, but close. :rolleyes::p
     
  24. Baby Doll

    Baby Doll Lore Keeper
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    Well I think we should get together once a week and have a party. And every time Victim runs around in circle making airplane noises we all have to do a shot of SoCo (or hit your drug of choice). Could be fun!!!!!!!!
     
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  25. Victim of Siege

    Victim of Siege Crazed Zealot
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    *runs around in a circle acting like an Airplane*
     
  26. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    There was not a need for is, as most start with 5x90 skills now from the mystic token. A guild with only 5-8 newbies are not to much help as they get lonely. They can easy get some start help from players they meet in game.
    Sure if someone want to try, feel free, but you will need to give up having a RL as newbies comes in all time zones. You also need to gain respect from both good and evil because if one side think you belong to the other side, NEW may end up in a war. If you can't make new red guild understand the concept, they may just see NEW as an easy target and a way to get more enemies from making the community mad at them.

    What we need is to let all new chars/accounts auto join gen chat with a message about how to speak in it.
    Then we all need to be better to say hello in chat, when we login, so they can see the shard is alive.

    We may need help from EM Hawker, to place a book in Luna and Britain, telling basic newbie info/Siege info. Also our Hubs, we could be better to leave info to newbies there. Some guilds may want to make hunts, some may help with newbie gear etc.
     
  27. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Yes, it's time grandma. :p
     
  28. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    We're dead right now because most people are on their home shard. :p
     
  29. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    This is my only shard.
     
  30. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Part-timers have always gone back to their home shard when major content hits. We're dead right now because so few people call siege "home".
     
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  31. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I don't think the lack of a new guild matters honestly. I think it was always a nice thing to have, but really if people who want to play here can't handle character building or getting killed as a newbie (the threat of which currently is almost 0%) then they were never going to stick around. If they didn't really want to play here and needed to be cajoled by the promise of the months worth of amnesty from pks, they also probably were not going to stay.

    I don't mean to take away from the impact of NEW, I just think it was more important in building connections which you could really do with any guild, or just a welcoming community. It's nowhere near the "greatest problem" facing the shard.
     
    #31 Uvtha, Nov 7, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  32. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Siege Perilous is what it is. For well over a decade I will play no other shard.
     
  33. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Me either, homeboy.

    Still I wouldn't be averse to tweaking "what it is". :D
     
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  34. Shadryk

    Shadryk Visitor

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    I played on Siege from 1998-2001 and have been trying to return for the first time since then. In about 6 log-ons, I have yet to see anybody, anywhere. Is Siege really *that* dead? Granted, I've only been in the towns & some countryside in Felu only.
     
  35. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I mean, is the population low? Yes. Way down from that period. Though I don't think it's any lower than some of the other "small" prodo shards. If you find a good group, or play during peak hours, it should be a huge issue.

    I think the major bad elements of a low population are few random encounters out and about which really hurts pvp, and not enough stocked vendors leaving certain odds and ends things you have to ask in chat to get or get yourself, which can be a pain.

    Pretty much everyone hangs out at home since they can use general chat to talk, and there's a lot of land to cover, which leads to few meetings. So sure to use chat, that's the best way to find people.
     
  36. Max Blackoak

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    You won't see many people running around or hanging out at banks. The landmass has simply become to enormous which makes things even worse with a thinly spread population. One big help though is general chat. Make sure you join the general chat channel and say hi there. This is the only chat used on Siege and it's a good way to get in touch with people. here's a quick guide how to join and switch channels: Chat - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia

    just holler in general chat if you need something or want to get in touch with people!
     
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  37. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    That's what I meant, many of our so called "regulars" have never called Siege home.
     
  38. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, I get you, but what I am saying is part timers have always been around, the shard deadness isn't just because the part-timers went home, but rather because the overall numbers are rather low so the siege only ratio of the whole is comparatively very small. It's not like the place will be bustling once ToL fatigue sets in.

    I think we all agree the pop is low regardless of the seasonal/conditional technicalities, low enough I contend, that we could use some positive changes to make up for it, and simply just to undo some of the damage done by a decade of bleed over code.
     
  39. Spiffykeen

    Spiffykeen Seasoned Veteran
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    Frankly, my backpacks on Atlantic are too full of holiday gifts now to attempt to do anything productive on prodo....

    Sent from my XT1028 using Tapatalk
     
  40. Shadryk

    Shadryk Visitor

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    Is there still a lot of good PVP on Siege? We were constantly raiding each other back in 'tha day, and had a lot of chance encounters in dungeons that lead to PVP. I started out playing GL, but abandoned it for Siege after about a year. We had big fights with The Cabal, Undead Legion, et al. I generally play from 11PM - 2 AM CST-USA
     
  41. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Theres a new pvp system called vice vs virtue that replaced factions, designed around defending alters in the towns. Thats your best bet for fights. You get a message when a town goes active.
     
  42. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    The only "glaringly obviously" change we need on Siege is the addition of insurance or to Siege Bless all equipped items.

    I'd rather not have it... full loot was one of the big plusses to playing this shard, but this isn't the game we were all paying back then. The current game we are playing is not meant to be played without it.
     
  43. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    GC, Gardian Choosen = The Cabel had not been seen on the shard for more than 10 years and only a few Undead Lords had been seen, the tag UDL is long gone.
    Who was you and your guild?
     
  44. WhiteWitch

    WhiteWitch Journeyman

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    Pretty difficult to call a place home when the devs themselves seem to have deemed Siege a "novelty shard" or "holiday home", the very decision to allow a house on Siege as well as you prodo shard makes that very clear.

    The change might have been to get people to try Siege, and maybe in a few cases it worked, but the whole thinking behind this demonstrates that they think Siege doesn't offer enough to move there from a prodo shard, it is not an alternative, and they are right.

    To those who actually do call Siege "home" how many of you only run one account?

    I run 3 accounts on Siege, I have a mage, crafter and tamer and probably 30 soul stones simply to get close to the playing options I can have with ONE account on prodo, yes I understand the original intention of the single char thing, to encourage players to co operate, firstly for this you need a fair number of players, secondly soul stones has made this reasoning null and void.
    For me Siege only ever needed to be the same as prodo but with the switch flicked to fel rules everywhere, its what most other games do with their "PvP" versions of servers and those are as well populated as the non pvp ones(yes I know its pointless saying that because hindsight is a wonderful thing and the devs didn't actually want a "pvp shard" as much as a "hard shard")

    Turns out what it has become is an "expensive/limited shard".

    I called Siege home when I came back to UO a couple of years ago(my account had still been active during my absence to keep my house on Siege ONLY, I didn't have one on prodo), oddly this new house rule thing made me place a house on Europa, then over time I found myself there more often because more chars so more things to do.

    TL;DR: Remove the damn 1 char thing, it has no relevance anymore and keeps Siege from being a proper alternative .
     
  45. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I do believe the one char thing hurt Siege badly as players always go home to old shard to try new stuff, special when new templates are a part of the public.
    Also alot love having more chars to play.
    If I want to train a new template on Freja, it mean, I can't PvP for weeks unless I switch skills everytime I want to go hunt. With a second char slot, I could train the new skills on second char and still keep Freja with her skills. Tina would like to only be a Smith and let a second char be the tailor, then both could have a little combat skills.
     
  46. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Wait... the devs are aware we still exist?? :p

    And I have 2 accounts, but only have 1 active at a time, and rarely ever have the second one activated, unless I want to try out a new house idea. It's just not worth it for me to have more than one going at a time.
     
  47. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    While I'm against it, I doubt the impact would be all that negative. There is very little pking going on anyway. It would just make pvping harder for casuals.
     
  48. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

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    While I'm against it, I doubt the impact would be all that negative. There is very little pking going on anyway, and no one sells crafted gear and few sell dungeon loot. It would just make pvping harder for casuals, and make hiding/stealth even more of a must-have for pvmer defense.
     
  49. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    I have two active accounts and had planned on running a big shop of crafted goods here on Siege, I've loved the crafting part of this game since joining UO back in the fall of 2000. Unfortunately their isn't enough customers to buy crafted goods to make such a shop fun, the need to restock was minimal because little sold, I just checked stock each day and rarely needed the crafter logged in to make new stock.

    My crafting character, Landreu, is all crafting skills with enough Magery to make the pentagrams & such items. He has two soulstones to swap Arms Lore & Carpentry as needed. He primarily shows up in game to join a Spellweaving focus with Tanivar.

    Tanivar is my gatherer who has started to brush back up on hunting with the big dogs of late since the gathering isn't really needed. He typically runs the four Mage skills, Magery, Eval, Med, and Resist, with Hiding & Stealth, then has 230 skill points to swap in skills from 14 soulstones. These hold the Taming & Bard skills, gathering & magic crafting skills, and some combat skills like Spellweaving, Wrestling, Focus and Poisoning. I'd enjoy having multiple characters on this account and have a Gatherer, a Tamer, a Bard and so on.

    The big problem with Insurance is that gear lasts nearly forever because almost nothing needs replacement. While this is a good thing in some ways (elaborately designed super expensive super gear can't be lost), it also means that PvPers and the PKers can't loot anyone as a reward for their winning a fight, and of course, no crafting needed to replace anything. On the other hand, those with mega millions of gold can build super suits that make them nearly unbeatable and PvP becomes unfun for anyone else who loves to PvP but can't compete with the super suits.

    What needs to be done is to change the hassle aspects of Siege. Remove the Dark Wisps which kill new characters and camp the bodies, allow Runebooks to be charged with Gate Scrolls to make traveling easier, let NPC vendors buy goods from players since the bazaar isn't much of a gold source anymore, you can't make enough gold for the time invested in gathering the goods you sell there. Selling to other players doesn't happen much because the goods are not needed or they don't have that much gold to pay the price because getting rich here through game play is a slow process.

    Siege is a shard with a strong community, I think more would play here after burning out on prodo, as I did, if a few of the hassle factors were removed and some fun aspects were added.
     
  50. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    NO EFFING INSURANCE.
     
    kelmo and Uvtha like this.