1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Keep the pets powerful,but bring the tamer down a notch

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Victoria Navarre, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. Let's equal the playing field shall we? Pets will stay the way they are but lets balance the tamer instead.

    1) Want to heal your pet with bandages? The tamer should be required to have high dex to have the fastest heals just like I have to do with my fighter.

    2) Commanding a very large,very powerful combo such as a mare/dread combo or a greater should be "mentally taxing". It should cost mana to give commands and to control your pet.Perhaps the same way the bardic spellsongs work.


    Every other template has to balance mana usage and the points asigned to each stat. The tamer template has no such limitations. They command pets that,head to head,would quickly destroy any Mage/SW/Mystic summon(that costs mana to cast).
    I know I'll be told I am wrong because I do not blindly agree that tamers arn't overpowered and need no balancing. So save it,I already know.
     
  2. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,876
    Likes Received:
    1
    /signed
     
  3. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    Sure aslong as you leave it alone for PVM but then again they will probably do this and who gives a crap about PVM right.

    I will tell you what everyone else says about anything, adapt use a dexxer or what not. Do not fight a tamer 1 on 1.

    If they do, do this then I want all artifacts to have what faction artifacts have because with them a tamer could easily get the required needs to make it work.
     
  4. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Just ban Monsters and Tamers from felucca :p
     
  5. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Impossible. Besides it being impossible, what do you care what faction artifacts have on them? You could just as easily join one as anyone else can.

    Either way I don't agree with this idea only because of the affect it would have on pvm, but then again...maybe it would introduce a nice bit of a challenge to an already far to easy aspect of the game. meh, now I am undecided.
     
  6. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    NO NO NO You mean UNbalance the tamer!! This is wrong and I am not a PVP player at all.!!!

    Stop asking for them to Mess with Templates. We have been messed with as it is long enough.
    If you cant handle pvp against the pets give it try another way... Stop your pouting and think what am I doing wrong.. not ok Im getting my tail handed to me so... NERF the TAMER!! This is the wrong way to deal with it. I know players who can kill a Gdragon in a few hits and the tamer is taking a dirt nap.
    History of tinkering with templates have been a nightmare over the years.
    I have had my mage messed with then my macer to the point she cant kill a mongbat(exageration but with a point) without help!!!!
    Tamers are not that powerfull, I feel you just have not figured out how to deal with the pet/tamer in question.
    I have a ledgendery tamer and I can tell you she is an easy target...kill her and the dragon is poof so easy to deal with. I am no newbie at handling her(13year old tamer) or the dragon, done pvp and all that.
    In asking for a high dex she would have to drop ether strength(low life) or mana(lower ability of casting spells or how many can be cast).... thats not making the playing field equil its putting the tamer/pet in the easy death collum for you.
    You start this uproar and they get sticky fingers on the templates again and you will unbalance it all over again. Been there done that alot... to the loss of others.

    Do you realy want them to dip their fingers into that pot again?? It might just start a chain reaction to your loss as well... imagine the changes they could do to your favorite pvp character?? This all to rebalance what you upset with your request.

    Dont repeat history... they do and we might just loose the majority of whats left of our players, its a can of worms you dont want to open.
     
  7. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    the only toons I have left are 2 tamers, 1 dex'r, and mules, all non pvp, the rest got flushed. If they change taming, they'll ruin it, they do everything else, FACT. If they ruin this one too, I'll have little choice but to learn the one skill they Absolutely Can't change, nor ruin - Scripting. Besides, at that point, why should I even care anymore?
     
  8. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    276
    Finally had to reply to one of these posts.....SOOOOOO Devs are finally listening to the little crybabies about mysticism. The whiners get what you wanted. So now you have to cry about taming.

    When does the cycle end?

    If none of you had ever *&%*^$$ about one skill then they would all be on a level playing field as we speak.

    But of course those that cant, cry.

    Those that can Get screwed in the behind.
     
  9. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    15
    Disco + confusion pot + collossus = dead GD


    mystic bard mage ftw

    edit

    And oh yeah ignore the pet kill the tamer confusion potions ftw
     
  10. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    (Dreads are vastly superior in PvP) Mount Pet + Run off Screen + Laugh

    Why do most of the Situations players present that show examples of "balance" in tamers, generally assume that the tamer is a horrible pvper and does nothing but stand there dying or watching the pet get slaughtered?
     
  11. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,052
    Likes Received:
    632
    It already takes 240 points to 'reliably' control a GD, 120 of which is probably the hardest skill in the game to raise (taming)... Now someone wants to add more of an annoyance factor into the mix because after 13 years they think its "unfair"?

    *sigh*
     
  12. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,755
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    yeah 120 taming is a very hard skill to gain, but how many tamers do you think actually have 120 real taming. Not the majority. Would make the multitudes cry, but a real skill req such as was just added to discord could be implemented.
    Not neccessarily 120 real skill to control a greater dragon etc, but 120 real skill to get the most power out of one.
     
  13. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Took me about 5 Days to go from 85 Taming to 104 (Advanced char then 6.0 in Sots) Granted I was taming for about 18 Hours straight per Day.

    The Challenge of gaining a Skill should NEVER be what determines its usefulness or effectiveness against other skills, because the game is not balanced around that type of system.

    Also for that 240 Skill, You are adding 700+ Skill, 800+ HP, 125+ Mana, 125+ Stam, 40+ Damage, A Meleer, A Caster, A Firebreath, and a Bleed to your template.
     
  14. Metalstorm

    Metalstorm Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2003
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    0
    Making tamers rely on REAL skill vs modified skill would be a better balance than a dex and mana tax.

    The previous posters have a valid point. Two (three if you want to heal pets effectively) skills are dedicated to the profession. It doesn't leave much room for offense/defense skills.

    I sometimes wish it were as simple as yelling "all kill" like most believe it to be.

    Mind you the only pvp I've done with my pets have been the "oh crud they're trying to kill me! I gotta defend myself!" kind. But I think I've had enough experience to know tamers are not all powerful. Anything but.
     
  15. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,052
    Likes Received:
    632


    This makes sense. +skill jewels should never make you as powerful as the real skill, close, but not equal.




    Skills aren't balanced around anything at all, that’s part of the problem. However, the players have come to expect that the harder a skill is to 'finish,' the more power they should receive from it. Is this correct? No, but perception and reality rarely coincide.



    To be fair, it should really be 380 skill points (add in Vet - which higher levels of gives a bandage speed bonus). A GD is like having another player at your back, though so is a Rising Colossus. However, as stated above, the GD can be rendered useless with ingenuity and easily obtainable items.

    Let’s not thrash yet another template just because a few people are unwilling or too lazy to adapt their strategies.
     
  16. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    110 Tame - Offensive and Defensive (One of the best)
    115 Lore

    120 Myst - Offensive and Defensive And Mana Skill (One of the Best)
    120 Focus

    120 Resist - The Defensive Skill for Casters

    120 Mace Fighting - Offensive and Defensive
    70 Tactics - + Dismount - (One of the Best Offensive and Defensive Abilities in the game)

    +60 Skill on Jewels, 2/5 Casting, Dreadmare..

    What the Template offers, Dismount Myst Resist Dreadmare.

    Almost every skill on that template offers The best type of Offense/Defense combos currently in the game.

    What in the hell are you talking about being skill starved?

    (And Yes i've posted this a few times, But it proves a pretty obvious point)
     
  17. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    As i've previously said, A GD is Inferior to a Dreadmare.

    If you tried this "Ingenuity and Items" Crap against me this is how the battle would go.

    If you have Disco "Pre-casted" Then there is No Way i'm going to let you cast a Rising Colossus from 0-100% Without some kind of disrupt.

    If you have a Colossus "Pre-Casted" I will simple mount my Dread and walk away from it and out of its range, Or move the fight far away.

    A Disco Myst mage is going to be Hurting on Skill, Most likely Resist, as a 2/5 Mystic I can easily exploit this with Sleep, At that point, I still have the offense of a 2/5 Mystic Mace Fighting Dexxer, with resist, and my pet (Though weakened via disco) Will still function as a amazing Disrupter against your Casting based offense. (Meaning if you are disrupted, you have Absoutly no offense what so ever [Which i can easily do with Bleed] Where as i Still have Mace/Tact and my 1-2 Pets mauling on you, While you are on Foot.)
     
  18. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,052
    Likes Received:
    632
    Not really what I was talking about, but lets run with it for now... If you're basing this off your template listed above, then its not tamers that are the real issue, it's the gimp template du jour and wildly unbalanced damage outputs among combat skills.

    If you're playing the L337 PvPer card in reference to "Ingenuity and Items," you didn't address confussion pot.. or things like exploding tar potions, etc.

    GD, dreadmare, nightmare/rune beetle, whatever...

    Yes you can attempt a disrupt, which may or may not succeed depending on how the other player is set up. If we're playing with pre-casting then a Colussus would work best first with a discord immediatly following - since there is no delay. If you walk away, you effectively end the battle - neither party winning or losing.

    I'm puzzled here, why are you assuming your opponents would only be a disco/myst? My previous example of a Rising Colossus was in generic comparison to a GD, as both are 5-slot pets with relatively high damage outputs.

    Some templates will have an advantage over others, but it doesn't mean that the nerf bat needs to be taken to specific skills just to appease people.
     
  19. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    I didnt address the potions because I have never had them used against me in a way that effectively killed me, Never have they been so effective or I have failed in such a way that those items have gotten me killed while playing a tamer.

    I didnt address Pets, because outside of a Pre-Patch Doggy, No Pet can compare to the Dread in a PvP Situation, It is the absolute best.

    Also, A Non Pre-Casted Colossus will be easy to disrupt as it is an 8th Level Cast.

    A Pre-Casted Colossus would, as I said, cause me to just walk away, And Generally speaking from experience, The person I am fighting, will most likely follow me, and the fight will continue elsewhere.

    Most of my examples were for Disco Myst Mage because of the Previous post which stated very clearly, that it was of the persons opinion that a Disco Myst Mage could easily stop and drop a tamer.

    A Colossus has a Short Timer and is subject to dispell (Which multiple templates how now a day)..

    Finally, The Part about How its the template as a Whole that is overpowered.. Outside of Mystic that is untrue, As the whole template would fall apart without the Dreadmare.

    The template is based off of the dismount, that dismount is based off of having that Amazingly powerful beast sitting under me.
     
  20. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    166
    In the old world, tamers were called wimps by the PVPers That is, until the Nightmare began the nightmare. Suddenly Tamers were in demand. And so were accounts with tamers on them ALL PVPers and pk guilds wanted to own tamers.

    So like you, ... if I had to resort to scripting to make a skilled character, which Tamers cannot do, I would give up this game.
     
  21. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest


    Tamers can easily script..

    A while back they removed the Bulls from the Tram Johl pit on ATL (Not sure if thats still in effect).. Do you know why?
     
  22. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    166
    Ah .. so that is why! The scripters found a way. I wondered at the sudden increase in Legendary Tamers everywhere on Sonoma.

    - - anyway for what it's worth, I did it by taming while working in the game, where I also got more stable space by building extra tamers on my accounts. *sigh* and here I had a feeling of accomplishment! Now isn't that something else! haha :) Why bother playing a game if everything is bought for real money and skills are scripted? Hmmm..
     
  23. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    I don't agree with it either, I don't know what your impossible thing means and to who it was directed. If your saying its impossible to change regular artifacts into factions its not its probably pretty simple they do that stuff all the time. As for me joining the factions thing to get the artifacts, well lets just say I don't play that way. I mean if I was going to use them then I will play factions the way they are meant to be played and not abuse the system just to get bonuses.
     
  24. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    So we're back at this again, and the tamer haters are having another kick at the old can. Remind me again why it is that tamers need to be nerfed? Maybe it's because they are so dominant in pvm? Oh wait, a sampire can kill anything a tamer can, and more besides, faster and with less risk. Maybe that's not it.

    Yes archer tamers and to a less extent dexxer tamers are a problem in pvp, but it isn't the tamer half of the template that is the problem, if it was every kind of tamer would be dominant in pvp, and guess what, they aren't. There are a lot of archer tamers in pvp, there are a number of dexxer tamers, and outside of Siege there are very few of any other kind of tamer in pvp. Again, if the taming half of the template was the problem, you'd see a lot more of every other kind of tamer in pvp as well, but guess what? You don't.

    So again, why is it that tamers need to be nerfed? Maybe it's because the pvp "in crowd" decided long ago that tamers were an easy target and they didn't like them? Maybe they don't really need a reason? Maybe they think all tamers are weaklings and won't fight back when they kick sand in their faces?

    Get over it, tamers are here to stay, and pvp tamers are here to stay, and this tamer isn't going to lie down and let you walk all over him. If you want to address the specific problems with archer and dexxer tamers, there has already been another thread started on that specific topic, feel free to go contribute something positive to that thread.
     
  25. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    You do realize that not Non Tamer Hybrid versions of those templates are Vastly inferior, correct?

    A Pure Dismount Archer is no where near as powerful as a Tamer Archer
    A Pure Dexxer is no where near as powerful as a Tamer Dexxer

    You say its the Other skills combined with taming that make it overpowered, well i say that The Tamer Version of those templates is Much more powerful Exactly BECAUSE of the taming, and not the other skills.

    The only Skill in this assumption that holds true, Is Mysticism, and thats only because it is Too much in its current state.

    You keep calling us Tamer Haters and dismissing us for that reasoning.

    Well i Think you are just a Tamer Lover thats holding true to the only thing thats kept you PvPing for as long as you have (Exactly like you said about deactivating your accounts)
     
  26. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,957
    Likes Received:
    5,448
    How about we just wipe all the shards... delete all the characters empty all the zoo's start all the shards from scratch and only allow 3 types of character, Sampire, Archer, and Crafter...

    And then take and put the skill cap back to 700 and remove all powerscrolls... and special armor and weapons and special moves....

    And then change the game from UltimaOnline to Whiners Anonymous... yes lets just nerf everything.

    Serious either learn to play the game or quit whining when someone beats you.

    First off Greater Dragons are SLOW and you should be able to outrun them... secondly you shouldn't be able to beat every template... and finally if your constantly getting beat maybe PvP isn't for you.

    NO PvP isn't balanced never has been never will be.
     
  27. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Sigh, How many times do I need to say that GDs are inferior to Dreads until people will realize it?

    A Dreadmare isnt Slow, because its a mount and therefore can run at Mount Speed, allowing the tamer to take the dread where ever he wants without any Speed/Movement Restrictions, by simply dismounting once he gets to the spot he wanted to go.

    Also a Pre-Patch Doggy is by No means "Slow" as they are commonly called the "Speedhacking" Dogs. (They run at nearly paragon speeds)
     
  28. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    I see I'm not alone in thinking this is ludicris!

    It was the whiner's in the first place who got mages early on in the game nerfed so bad the Dev had to "balance" the rest of the templates to match and that can of worms still haunts us.

    OP learn from the the players here: a Tamer and GD are not tough.. Far from it.
    The vast pvp players I have had the knowlage of can whip any tamer and GD. It just takes know how. Learn to run your character. Adapt.
    Im a 120 120 120 Tame/Lore/Vet on 1 tamer and damn close on 3 others, gm or better on the other 10 I have going, beleave you me Tameing is hard enough without your half baked idea of balance.

    No offence kiddo, but dont step on the sleeping dragons toes... you wont like what it does later. Whats that Jim Croce song.." Dont mess around with Jim."... listen to it some time you will get my point.
     
  29. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    I think these are good suggestions, even for PvM.
    PvM is way too easy for a tamer. Almost every creature can be faced alone by a tamer, even if he isn't very skilled or experienced. The Greater Dragon will do the work, and all you have to do is keep him alive. Tamers should have to face a more tactical challenge in PvM. (You can solo most creatures with other templates too, but there it is way more challenging.)

    I could also imagine to reduce the damage output of pets, but give them special moves similar to weapons that require mana from the tamer. This way a tamer would have to do a little more than just hide, heal occasionally and wait.
     
  30. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    When was the last time you did Pvp with a GD on your tamer??

    Look leave all Templates alone period. Just dont go there.
     
  31. OK,listen everyone. Try rereading what I actually posted(including the title of the thread) and do not make assumptions on what you think I mean.

    This isn't about:
    Nerfing the tamers pet​
    PvP nor PvM situations specifically​



    What my thread is about:
    Requiring the tamer herself to balance stat points like every other template must do.​


    I know it is sooo easy to lable me a "hater" to want the same stat balance for tamers as for every other template. That makes it easy for you to shrug off any idea that doesn't make you even stronger.
     
  32. Vlaude

    Vlaude Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    57
    Victoria you rock, they're just whining about "whiners" who want their templates require some skill.
     
  33. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    138
    Continuously changing requirements for any template is absurd.

    Tamer envy/rage, make one for your self, if that is not involved enough for you there are plenty of pet simulations games else where.

    Here is a good example of what happens when a concept is taken too far....


    You get .... *cannons*.... and a need for 4 different crafting characters to make a match.

    Maybe Tamers Should be required to have a pooper scooper before they can leave the stables too.

    :bdh:
     
  34. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    I hate tamers, yes I do
    I hate tamers, and so should you
    With dread mares, dragons, even a cu
    Tamers make me want to spew

    Nerf them good and nerf them now
    Make them farm that boss with cows
    Nerf them long and nerf them hard
    Then next I'll say "Hey let's nerf bards!"
     


  35. PS Did you know that the reading comprehention of the average american is at the 5th grade level?
     
  36. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Tamers are the only ones requiring tactics in PvM. You need crowd control and you need to heal your pets. All other templates are either hit&run or wacka-wacka-wacka-next-mob. If you just heal your pet, it will work in a quiet spawn with a GD. But if you don't deal with the aggro, that paragon blood elemental will kill you or your nightmare if you're using the dread/mare combo for example.

    I totally agree that taming gives access to mobs of a higher difficulty with less gear, but tamers haven't been kings of PvM since a long time ago. Pala archers were the fastest killers for farming, now the big template is sampire to solo raid bosses. So really, don't shoot on tamers in PvM.

    For the PvP part, I don't know anything, so I let you do your suggestions.
     
  37. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    9
    This!

    I don't know why everybody is talking about Gdragons. Sure a dismounting tamer with a dragon is a pain in the neck, but those Mystic-Mage-Tamers riding dread war horses are the real annoying opponents.
     
  38. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,779
    Likes Received:
    434
    What are you going to suggest the pets do when a tamer runs out of mana, just stop on the spot and refuse all commands? *chuckles* Well it's different. But I think any balance affecting tamers ought to affect the worst offenders with the least skill investment and the most gimpy templates and tactics before it hits those of us who just want to defend ourselves from other players.

    I'd say there are some obvious and IMO much more targeted balances:

    1. Real skill in vet and lore to bond and maintain the bond on top end fighting pets.
    2. Real taming and lore skill to control the pet.
    3. Can't log out to save the pet from death or pull it out of battle by relogging elsewhere.
    If those don't make a difference, then you can ask for the above. But you need to stop and realise that some of us tamers aren't in the problem camp. In fact, a tamer who had 360 skill is going to have a much harder knock into their template if they need to add in meditation than one who has no vet at all. Your actually going for a penalty to using vet skill over gimping it up with a no-vet, low skilled hybrid. How many PvP battles have you seen where the tamer had a chance to vet a pet mid fight anyway?

    For example, my fully skilled tamer would win more battles as a low skill hybrid than using all the skills associated with her profession. And the hybrid template would probably give you much more trouble than her 360 taming skill + GM herding does. No, as I say I can see where you're coming from but I don't think this is the answer.

    Wenchy
     
  39. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tamers, they are such lamers!
    That tamer, I'd like to maim her!

    "Let me tell you the skill yelling all kill truly requires!"
    "Please don't nerf us, nerf those evil sampires!"

    Well go ahead sweety and try to talk sh*t...
    But at least that sammy sometimes gets hiiiiiit!

    Tamers, they're sorta flamers.
     
  40. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,957
    Likes Received:
    5,448
    No directing my pet should NEVER require mana... that's just insane.

    And you are just a whiner... learn to PvP. Pet don't do jack if Tamer is dead.
     
  41. If commanding/controlling a pet doesn't require mana,then neither should spellsongs. And again this has NOTHING to do with PvP but only the tamers skill set itself. How much more clearly can I state this until people understand what I am saying?
     
  42. It will stop and be insta-stabled.My spellsongs stop if I hit 0 mana,why not the same with pets?
     
  43. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,755
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    I agree with this alot.

    Im not too concerned about tamers in pvp; theres always gimp templates, and its never really balanced. If i die to a tamer its not becuase of the pet, its because of the other skills. Like when my rune is blocked to my fel house i often just take the gate its not far from. So im in fel a decent amount with non pvp characters. Even on these characters, ive Never been killed by the pet, i either run away, or just kill the pet. I remember a few times my sampire got jumped by a tamer, so i just started killing the pet. He stayed alive even taking magery damage, until the tamer realized i would just kill his dread. So he mounted his almost dead dread, cast para fields on me. And killed me as soon as my manna / confidence heals ran out. Now this character had no majic resist, and no pots or anything. I really dont see a problem with pvp tamers, Ive made one myself a few years ago, got bored of it really quick, and got back on my necro mage. They are a gimp template, but theres always a template like this around.

    Back off topic -pvm tamers. I dont care that a tamer can solo a boss. I can do that with my sampire, and wouldnt really want it to be changed. Theres not always people around to hunt with.

    What i do hate, is that if a greater dragon is there, it almost always becomes the "Tank" and other templates dont really have to do much to stay alive. No need for cross-healing anymore in pvm if theres a tamer.

    And what i Really hate, is all the tamers at Events. It wouldnt work, but i wish every event monster would do extra damage to pets. Most events i can just barely survive on my sampire, forget about a mage if some huge monster is chasing me. So yes ive made an "event" character, hiding chiv healing ninjitsu archer. Hes pretty boring, but he can survive in just about any event even in the lag fests. What gets me is that a template that someone uses all the time can do these events with no problem.

    Tired of seeing 10 greater dragons on an event boss, when i cant even see what the boss looks like.
     
  44. I have to have high dex for effective healing through bandages. I have to balance that high dex with with strength points for HP's and mana to get to use specials. Tell me why the tamer shouldn't be under the same restrictions as every other template in the game? The tamer template (And I do mean the template! Not the player behind the template!) is the spoiled child of the UO family.
     
  45. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    Actually, you can cross heal. Try cross healing the dragon that's playing the tank. I see a lot of dead greater dragons at events, and there are plenty of bosses, and event mobs that do do double damage to pets. Maybe they aren't doing it anymore, but there was a time there when the devs were pretty much ensuring that tamers couldn't tackle any event bosses, which was patently unfair in my opinion.
     
  46. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,779
    Likes Received:
    434
    Your spellsongs may stop, but your spellbook doesn't automatically get dropped in your bankbox when your mana runs out, does it? Mages don't suddenly lose their spellbook mid battle. If you have 360 skillpoints to use your pets, you don't want all those points to become useless because you ran out of mana. That's silly.

    And once again, this is penalising tamers who have bothered to train up their skills. It boosts the strength of hybrids who would suffer a lot less because they run with the least taming skill. And of course giving us all the lovely effect of vanishing pets.

    Let's be honest, this isn't about balance if auto-stabled pets are the consequence for merely running out of mana ;) you want tamers out of Fel entirely. If you don't, you haven't really considered the practicalities of your suggestions from the perspective of a tamer.

    Wenchy
     
  47. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Your pancakes about Balance, when in reality you are wanting your cake and eat it too.

    You dont need to "FIX" a tamer.
    Tamers are already limited. Boy I can see you dont have a Tamer, or if you do you surely dont know how that template runs. Take it from me, tamers dont have it so glossy as you make out.
    For instance lets face facts. The average tamer needs to be at least over 105 in both tame and lore to own a damn GD. Thats not being able to have it kill mind you, oh no you need at least 110 to have it obey properly.
    Then you have Vet, I can tell you from many champ spawns its not a picnic to vet a dragon or any other pet when you got not just the spawn after you but in the fel spawns you have the Red hord wanting your head on a platter.
    Now thats the real tamer who has their skills to max and is a Real tamer. Tamers are not needing high dex. Where do you expect me to pull it out of??? My hat?? Ok, health is Str so no cant take it form there without puttin my ass on the line. My mana?? Ok take my mana away and in the pvm hunts where the monsters have aoe effects that would kill me in 1 hit I cant vet my animal close up so where does that put my healing ability?? I personaly use my mana to keep my pet alive in those hunts. I have no where to get this DEX you want lady. Your wish would make my tamer useless for even killing mongbats!!(exeration I know but its got a point as to how bad it would become)

    Your main ***** is that Tamers you face are so powerfull you cant handle them.
    I can see you have run up against the brains of UO who know how to balance not just their skills but their oponents skills too. Your tired of getting your tail in a knot from someone smarter then you. Give it up sister. Its not the Dragon or the Tamer character itself.

    Your wanting the player nerfed for being smart enough to use equipment and tools to make what you think is the norm! I got news for you, not all of us tamers have such skills that we can walk in and own you. We still hunt and play the game PVM.

    In the pvp area I can see the Dev doing a change to stop the log out issue and perhaps resetting the entering a house in combat.
    The log out to save the pet bit can easly be fixed by a simple battle restriction the dev can do. Like the heat of the battle recall limit in Fel.

    Your wanting something that would put the tamer so far out of wack with the rest of UO templates that it would have every tamer in arms at Mythics door screaming to fix it. My dear child, Thats a hell of alot of tamers!

    I read your post quite carefully, Infact I read it to my son to be sure I had it right what exactly you wanted.
    To be fair with you, I do hear on Napa chat when a tamer and pet do fight in fel what goes on, the same on Atlantic,Chessy,Pac,and all the other shards I play(with excepton of the ones whos population has no real pvp)
    Yes, there is a few tamers who do dammage to **** off the pope when it comes to fighting with a GD, but most times its due to the fact they log out to savet he pet. They are not pancakes that the GD is owning them or the bane has them cornered. They are mad they cant kill it cause they ether are in a house to insta log to save their sorry tushes or are grouped up with a second tamer and pet.

    But what you want is not gunna happen.
    Over my dead body.
    Tamers got nerfed once already, its why my tamers are all heading to 120/120/120. Just so I can pvm.
    Its people who found it unfair to their spacific situation who cried over how bad they had it that messed us up to begin with. Leave us tamers alone!
     
  48. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    138
    Sorry, I did not know you were American I will tone it down for you.

    Constantly changing the requirements of any template is absurd. A nerf is a nerf *ha ha* enough is enough.

    changing the pet or the tamers template gets the same end result, a convoluted tedious concept taken way over the top and no longer worth the time or effort to play.

    :bdh:
     
  49. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    sorry but this needs addressing.

    I have Nearly 14 years of taming and it seems obvious you just do not play your tamer right.

    First point, you need 107/107 to control a greater. At that skill level I almost never have any issues with controlling it. Sure every ONCE in a great while it might not listen, but more or less the thing does what I want when I want.

    Vet? meh, at champ spawns with a greater I use human JoaT spellweaving and normal greater heals, no problem at all keeping it alive.

    Stats? My tamer, with out pots, has 120 health (sort of low for pvp but pvm? seriously...) 60 dex, and 125 mana. Realize also I have no med, so all my regen is from items and I still have no problems with mana.
    Maybe others would want you to have 100+ dex, but having 80 or so (what I have plus a pot) would be more than fine.

    And what is the "tamers got nerfed once" part about? Every template has received tweaking over the years, aside from that "nerf" to me, just means "adapt" but I still do not know what you are refering to, perhaps having to have more than just taming to control your pet? that's unfair? A nerf? Really....I want to be able to use macing and all the specials involved with out having macing/tactics/Bushido/parry/anat Sound fair still?

    I understand where you are coming from, and I do not agree with all of the proposed changes, but you need to come up with a fix then, if you cant offer anything other than to say "no" then simply you need to learn to adapt.
     
  50. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,755
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    Im saying that Greater Dragons SHOULDNT be relied on to "tank." And that tamers SHOULDNT be one of the only everyday templates that can effectively do events. I dont really see any possibility of this being changed tho. After the introduction of greater dragons, the game just changed.