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KILLER 2 HIT BOWS

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Gladius, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. Gladius

    Gladius Guest

    Lately I have been reading so much fuss about duped quivers all the pro's and the cons about it well big deal huh?

    But what about these outrageous Crossbows and Bows that are really instant killers being used by some elite PvP players?

    They for sure are not run of the mill bows and my guess are they are handed down from generation to generation of players in the game.

    How come it is so rare and if ever an owner will sell one to you it will cost you 80M!

    Are these bugged or duped items? I saw them in action and just leaves me wondering how the "gods" would allow such a weapon of mass destruction go around in UO only for a chosen few?

    Just wondering?

    -G- <---:coco:
     
  2. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Generally....it is the quiver that makes those bows do that much damage. all bows are fairly equal when it comes to possible damage output, by equal i mean no bow can exceed the swing speed or damage of another bow always will be 50. Bows are expensive because balance and dual hit spell on them, when really both of those are complained about often both of them are "as intended" last I checked, tho i believe hit velocity should be on the same RNG as "hit spell" just my two cents.
     
  3. Hex_Europa

    Hex_Europa Sage
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    I know that a 120 Anatomy/120 Tactics/Max Damage Increase class of Archer WILL do alot of damage when combined with specials (because i have one) however i am rather sceptical about dying in 2 hits....Make's me think they may want to redo there stats for more HP.
     
  4. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    This is also very pointfull.
     
  5. Gladius

    Gladius Guest

    I recently joined a PvP group the GM had a crossbow with unbelievable SSI mods other than the rather abnormal damage it delivers with lightning and Armor Iggy weapon extra's.

    Now if we combine the usual non bugged quiver the Bow thus becomes a very potent stopper.

    I always thought I was very hard to kill at full resists 70 and 120 across the board skills. As it turned out I was toast. The bows I am saying are ones with super magical properties never heard of in the crafting fletcher's community and they are there.

    How this can be allowed is the question. How can it be achieved for ordinary mortals to use is another thing.

    Nope I don't think all bows in UO are created equal.

    Comparing these bows to my Marksman set it makes me look like a kindergarten kid going against a college degree holder.

    -G-
     
  6. mbraud4

    mbraud4 Sage
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    Sounds to me like u don't know what u are talking about, you have died, and now are complaining. You dont make any sense to me, some bows are uber because of runic kit luck. It takes tons of kits to make a really good bow. Secondly, the pre-patch quiver of rage does cause more damage, you should search and read up on them. They are "prepatch" and not "dupe." Get your facts straight before you come out and sound like a fool. Not trying to be an ass, it just seems like a pitty pout you have going on here.
     
  7. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    There are a few reasons as to why this may be happening to you.

    First: Having and all 70's suit and 120's in skill is not enough.
    Your suit will have to have really high DCI on it, preferably 70 DCI so that when they hit you with a Hit Lower Defense weapon, your DCI will drop to a respectable 45 :) This will help make the archer miss on a shot giving you time to heal... but not always due to the random number generator.

    Second: If your a dexer, parry really really helps nerf archers. If your a mage it will also help to have a weapon with all the pertinent mods on it like Spellchannel -20 Mage DCI and hit spell etc.

    Third: If you think a crossbow does big damage, check out the damage a Yumi can do in the right hands.

    In the end, its not just the bow that makes your GM do so much damage, it is also his characters skills, mods, items, jewelry and armor that allow him to do so much damage.

    In fact if he trusts you, you should try to take a few shots with it and you will see that you wont do the damage that he has unless your skills, mods, armor and jewels are the same or really close to the same as his are.
     
  8. Ni-

    Ni- Guest

    Is the GM using an invasion General bow? I think some came with some combinations of high HCI, Hit Spell, DI and SSI. I suposse a good one of those along with a prepatch quiver could deal decent damage.

    I'm just a bit curious about the Yumi damage you alluded to...

    Is it because of the specials or is there something else to the Yumi. I think you need 50 Ninjitsu to use one, if not both, of the special moves. Is that what you meant by the right hands? A Ninja?
     
  9. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    Things that should be possible (but not very likely):

    A heavy crossbow doing more than 100 damage in two shots (prereq: velocity and fireball/lightning both hit)

    A crossbow doing more than 110 damage in two shots (prereq: velocity and spell and concussion all hit)

    A yumi doing more than 130 damage in two shots (velocity, spell and double shot all have to hit)

    All against 70 resist.

    The previous statement is based on stratics calculators and number crunching, and should thus be considered as only hypothesis. I have never done anywhere near that damage in game, but I have killed someone in three hits once with my composite. That shocked the heck out of me.
     
  10. CroMag1980

    CroMag1980 Guest

    That's pure BS tbh.

    Archers with huge dmg output have given it a lot of thought and expense. People aso learn to play their temps to their strengths and put themselves in advantageous positions.
     
  11. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    While the Marksman set is one of the better sets IMHO, it is no where comparable to a high end runic bow.

    The set has a fixed set of properties that the devs has balanced like most artifacts. They deliberately refrained from making it a +30 SSI/+15 HCI/Hit Lightning/Velocity/+50% DI weapon. This is required to prevent every archer using an uber arty and rendering runic kits useless.

    To understand it better, just take a look at swords and see how many people use a soulseeker. It's not uber by runic standards, but has a combination of very desirable properties, making it one of the most popular swords.

    They also try to adhere to the 5 magic-properties rule as much as possible. At most, they boost 1 or 2 of these properties beyond the normal intensities (eg 60 SSI).



    Now, take a look at what heartwood fletching kits can do (copied from http://www.uoguide.com/Heartwood_Runic_Fletcher's_Tools)

    Secondly, add material bonus.

    Third, add the ML receipe bows that grants 1 extra magic property.

    Finally consider the free GM Fletcher + GM Armslore bonus of 40% DI.



    So potentially, you can get this if you are extremely lucky with the RNG:
    1) +30 SSI, +25 HCI, 50% hit lightning, 50% velocity (from heartwood runic)
    2) +10 more SSI, 20% lower requirements, 75% lower weight (from using ashwood, use yew wood for +10 di, +5 hci)
    3) Balanced (Lightweight Shortbow receipe. Note, shortbow has the Lightning Arrow special, meaning massive combo damage from 3 hit effects if hit lightning and velocity also triggers in the same attack. But I think DI is not applied to Lightning Arrow shots)
    4) 40 DI (from GM flecthing and armslore)



    Finally, remember this is only from the bow, you are not restricted to the feathernock quiver like the Marksman set. Meaning you can equip a quiver of infinity (DI + DCI + lower ammo). Or before it was patched, the quiver of rage for that untyped 10% damage.

    Important note The quiver of rage was not duped. It was intentionally nerfed by a patch. Some escaped being nerfed by the patch, hence folks also call these "prepatch" quivers. Using these could get the owner into trouble if another player pages a GM (or the GM may just patch it).



    That being said, my example above is a dream bow. The chance of getting those properties at max intensities is low and totally random. An obsenely rich player can burn up 60000 heartwood runic attempts and never get a bow with those stats. While a newbie can get it in his first try. Like buying lottery.



    Oh, did I mention that +DI equipment from other equipment like jewels/armour is more powerful than the DI on a weapon?
     
  12. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    Concussion+velo or concussion+hitspell can dish out 120+ dmg pretty easily in 2 hits. Just yesterday I was hit for 52 dmg conc + 5dmg from magic arrow :) (assuming the archer has a QoR).
     
  13. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Yes with Ninja
     
  14. Sassassin

    Sassassin Guest

    A lot of people still base total HP figure a PvPer have on around 110 to 120.

    Here's the senario based on actual combat dmg formula. I did NOT include the 10% modified damage from a quiver. What number I demostrated will do 10% MORE if using a quiver.

    At Max Str 120/120 tactics/anatomy and 100DI a crossbow will do 21-26 dmg(rounded down) against 70 resist on a regular hit.
    Assuming it also has Hit Lighting and hit Velocity. Lighting proc will deal around 10 to 12 dmg(depending on sdi item) and velocity at 8 tile will deal out 8 additional dmg. Assuming both proc it will bump the damage of the regular shot from the same xbow to (21+10+8) to (26+10+8) which is 39 to 44 damage.

    Lastly added in concussion blow bonus damage which can be anywhere from 10 to 30 depending on target's mana level vs hp level. Let's use the average of it which is 20 (rounded down) and this will bring the final damage of the shot to 61 to 66 damage. Two shots can dish out a possible 122 to 132 whooping damage against SEVENTY(70) resist. This damage wasnt calculated based on prepatched quiver of rage if you dont already know.

    This is when two hit kill happens, and 120 to 130 hp pool isnt too shabby even for today's standard. Even if both lighting and velocity didnt proc it's still a 43 to 48 damage per shot. It is still a good chunk of HP considering xbow can fire at 1.75sec/shot, no other skill/spell can match such an amazing damage output.

    Realistically every archer will also be using a quiver which effectively increase all FINAL damage by 10%. A no proc 43 to 48 dmg shot is realistically 47 to 53 dmg.

    If you can meet all the requirements of having 150 str after str pot (not hard), 120 tactics and anatomy (not hard), using a quiver (doh, and i wont even mention prepatch quivers) and having a good dual proc bow at good speed (cost lots of $$$ but isnt unheard of) you CAN kill people with 130 hp and straight 70s in two hits. It's possible and is proven by experience and by math. If there's a resist hole in the victim's suit and you can concerete weapon it makes two hit kill extremely easy with this setup. Only thing hard to obtain is a great bow but that's about it.

    I really wouldnt call 2 hit kill impossible as I am a man who base my arguments on facts. I would say 2 hit kill isnt always possible but it's possible to deal out 130 to 150 damage in two hits as a properly setup archer.

    Hope that clears things up a bit.


    PS: The only assumptions of numbers in this post is the uncertain damage of lighting and velocity. Which will not be too far off. Probably within +- 5 dmg total. Everything else is based on official formulas provided by uo.stratics.com and www.uoguide.com




    site: (uoguide.com)

    Concussion Blow:
    The Concussion Blow special move was added during the Age of Shadows expansion. It adds between 10 and 30 extra hit points of damage. The amount of the extra damage is based on the difference between an opponent's mana and hit points; the greater the spread, the greater the damage. According to a FoF, formula for the damage bonus is the absolute value of the victim's current mana percentage minus his or her current hit point percentage, divided by four, plus ten.
    ( ( (Opponent's mana)% - (Opponent's hit point)% ) / 4 ) + 10 = Damage Increase

    Damage Calculations:
    http://www.uoguide.com/Damage_Calculations

    Quiver damage modifier:
    Damage Modifier is an item property that is found only on certain quivers. It works as follows, after all of the damage calculations are made, after all of an opponent's resistances are calculated, the total amount of damage is increased by the percentage indicated on the quiver. Currently, all of the quivers that possess the item property have a Damage Modifier of 10%.


    Enjoy.

    BTW, Yumi's double shot would allow double proc of lighting AND velocity which will be very very nasty if both hits. So if a double proc double shot lands the victim is hit by two regular shots (at 90% dmg each) + lighting twice + velocity twice. HOWEVER since concussion blow is direct damage not mitigated by armor, it could be very competitive vs double shot.
     
  15. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Sassassin while your math is all correct and such (also based off a lot of if statements tho not impossible) I do not believe the OP had all of that in mind when posting, I have read his original post a few times and the second one he posted and I really got the feeling he believes there are some sort of exploited item bows doing this, I think he is making reference to the Invasion bows which if I am not mistaken did not come with dual proc, I am speculating of course, and he did not really specify if the battle was long, so if it was a short battle (such as literally two swings) and he is making reference to the invasion bows I do not think any bow can do 130 damage like that, no proc means the damage is 21-36, fast battle means close to max mana so you can up that to 31-46, multiply by two and the most you can get is 92. This thought process makes Hex's statement true. But again I speculated as is everyone with out the full information, and again you are right with the possibilities.
     
  16. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    The real problem with bows is simple...Dupe!!

    With the amount of Heartwood Fletching kits at any given time it's no wonder that every archer has an insane bow...


    Not to mention the duping of actual bows! While standing at the Yew gate I saw 3 people carrying the same Balanced X bow, exact same...please!

    That is why I moved to Siege, not Xshard = no Dupes!!
     
  17. Sassassin

    Sassassin Guest

    You didnt factor in the 10% modified damage from quivers. 21 to 36 is essentially 23 to 39 (rounded down) And realistically for first blow assuming concussion did minimum damage which will be 10 this bring the max possible dmg without any proc to 49, and assuming 49 dmg is a little over 1/3 of the victim's hp this means the very next concussion blow will not have a higher potency which will be adding close to 20 dmg... THIS will bring the max damage for the 2nd shot to 59ish and the final dmg will be 108 dmg over two shots and that's without any procs... It's still very powerful.

    What I dont get is the reason why archery weapons can have an additional proc since it's already the most damaging weapon skill to have that also have an 7 to 10-tile range. Gets the unique damage modifier from quivers for EVEN MORE damage, and capable of making them balanced and thus allow chugging.

    I do not have a dual proc crossbow perse however I do have a composite with 48 lighting and 46 velocity. And my dual proc Armor Ignore does at least 50 damage give or take.
     
  18. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Ahh you are right about the 10% damage, but still a bit shy of 130 hps. I also agree with the dual proc, and I will post it again because I feel it needs to be said again. Velocity should be on the same RNG roll as the other hit spells. If with the new imbuing system you can not add 2 hit spells to a weapon then I see no reason why this should be allowed, how they would go about removing this I do not know but it is biased. I have no problem with balanced bows tho, Archery is the only skill you can not switch to a one handed weapon in order to pot with, sure it take an extra step but with archery there is no possible way, I think perhaps they should make potting slower for archers, but that would be about it (slightly more realistic would be all)
     
  19. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    Maybe if you posted the mods that are on the bow/crossbow, people can be better prepared to give an answer as to is happening. Most likely it has a high hit spell, high velocity, and SSI and their using conc blows.

    As someone posted before, an all 70's suit isn't and shouldn't be the only factor when putting a suit together. I would rather fight someone wearing a all 70's suit with 0-5 DCI, than I would fight someone in a all 60's suit with high DCI if all else is equal.
     
  20. Gladius

    Gladius Guest

    Man I asked the GM and we concurred to the fact that on paper I was the stronger player. Better gear,jewelry and skills.

    His edge was the bow he had. It had the sting to knock me out in 2 shots. Now we can all just speculate about the mods etc. etc. and it can go on the whole day.

    My intention of posting this observation is to realize for myself how this could be other than the simple excuse of just saying were these bows duped or whatever.

    Summarizing the response on the thread I can see it is possible to create such bows although the chances are slim like winning the lotto which has odds of achievement only if you get hit by lightning twice.

    Possible yet next to impossible.

    The scientific calculations were given above, however it still doesn't give a concrete answer to the question as to where these magical bows originated from at all. Otherwise many of us here would have one right?

    The thing is, these bows are there and believe me you can be the best you think you can be but it will kill you.

    And if anyone here thinks they can kill me with their best regular bow in 2 shots then page me anytime any shard I will be there.(but you pay for my transfer token if you fail ok)

    -G-
     
  21. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    What can I say, but....

    :postpics:

    We can all talk and speculate until we are blue in the face, but until we see the bow the OP is talking about, nothing we say means a heck of alot.
     
  22. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    You were doing good there till you started saying crap about speculating the bows mods, YOU SHOULD KNOW what mods it had, you are talking about "magical bows" we don't think they are magical bows. Also you stated that harlequin explained how to get such bows, yet you say no one knows where they come from or we would all have one? If you are going to try and make an argument at least be consistent and coherent. Honestly "your regular bow" who is to say we don't all have a bow like his? I don't care for riff raff or killing you in two shots, at this point I am starting to feel everything is wasted time in this thread no matter what is said you agree and argue with it, yes you AGREE then you ARGUE ,"these bows can be made" "...doesn't give an answer as to where they came from" the first statement answers the second. While it is possible to die in two hits, I have never ever died in two hits at the start of a fight, also it is rare I get hit twice in a row with out healing of some kind, if you were the better player and all he had was a bow, you would have not died in two hits. Maybe the total damage of two hits would be ABLE to kill you, but you should have been able to heal - run around while healing - or some other method of avoiding death in a situation like that, standing still with no weapon in hand and not healing is not the same as being killed in two hits *tips hat*
     
  23. Gladius

    Gladius Guest

    Man if you could not believe I got whacked in two hits (that kinda stuff wouldn't give you anything much to do huh?) Anyhow, I think I was able to get a spell cast out before I died, then it's not my problem.

    As far as what kinda bow I saw was used I said so it had Magical properties (as the word "magical" was on it's resume) like I've never seen before in my 2 years of play,very high SSI/ LifeLeech/Lightning/Poison/Armor Ignore as the GM told me.If you had your mouse cursor on the weapon as I had the list was very long.

    I just shared what I saw fella. It it confounds one such as YOU then what about me? I am playing a Legendary Mage with macro healing do you honestly think I am such a Trammie noob and I was errr just standing there? You challenging me and picking a fight? Anytime bud you may kick my ass but I assure you it will not be easy.

    Besides a weapon to take you out in 2 hits even just standing there is surely one of great concern. Next time I see a guy wielding one like that I would stay hidden for sure. But then again you would never know because you can't believe it exists do you?

    In that regard the thread is really not working for your limited experience on the subject.

    You see I haven't even had time to get it's designer's code if you know what I mean? So why are you sore?

    Read and scroll back this wasn't a waste if time for me as some folks I think including you have given me personal valuable insight on the observation I had.

    You say I agree then argue well that's what the feedback tells me? They say it's possible such weapons exists but then again improbable to ever have or much less create them? Now the logical thing to do now is to compromise in your own personal bias.

    That's what legends and myths are made of you know compromised positions.Well I am just privileged to think that in my mere 2 years of play I was witness that such weapons (good and unbelievable as they maybe.. truly exists.) Now if you need to prove me otherwise by merely saying all this is crap, and some crude natives even say BS, then fine just the same that's your take not mine.

    Many have seen these weapons just hope you join the club soon.

    -G-
     
  24. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Never said the bows possibility did not exist, never said I have never seen a bow that could do a lot of damage. What I said was I have never been hit for over 130 damage in two hits so fast that I could not heal, thus the "two hit kill" is not possible, I gave you insight on the matter yes, and I never argued with you, but saying things in contradiction of yourself makes your claim less believable and if Magical was in its name then It is possible to hit with 3 procs but I do not feel like doing the math right now and I still feel you should not die in two hits (again you heal between shot one and shot two) my replies have all been focus on what has been said previously, as I said, you were doing good until that post.

    To everyone else, has anyone ever seen a bow with more than 5 props? And I mean 5 runic props. 10 ssi from ash would not count (I forget how this works when crafting bows, but don't the runics add props on top of what the wood can, so it could have more than 5 props but no where near max intensity) I was trying to think if I have seen one with more than that on it but I couldn't think of any. Thank You.
     
  25. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Actually I just checked with Yumi sp moves its either 50 Ninja or 50 Bushido. (not just ninja)
     
  26. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    so it's a 'magical shortbow', which is a style of elven bow. Since the bow belongs to your gm I suggest you take a screen print of it with the properties showing and post that here.
     
  27. Sassassin

    Sassassin Guest

    Magical Shortbow that kills people in two hits eh? Now THAT's news to me.
     
  28. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    me too, but he said it had the word 'magical' in its 'resume', which by my reckoning makes it a 'magical shortbow'. Logical? I'd be interested to know the stats on the bow, and since he knows the person that owns it, it doesn't seem too much to ask that he post a screenie here?

    On the other hand, while 'lightning arrow' is a special on a magical short, 'armor ignore' isn't. The only bow having that special is a composite. The other special on magical short bow is 'psychic attack'
     
  29. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Op mentioned seeing the word magical on the bow. Magical shortbow would fit the bill. But it does not have ai.

    Shoots fast, definitely possible to fire a couple of shots before a low dex (dex not stam) warrior can heal. But 8 (or was it 7) tile max range and low base damage. Got to see the properties of the bow in question to better tell if it is a possibly 2 hitter.

    Composites are much better...too bad there is no receipe for composite bows...erm scratch that. Perhaps it's a good thing.

    To the op, 4 props max from runics, but definite able to get more props from receipes, gm, armslore and material.

    My example above would have 8 props:

    1- Ssi 40
    2- Hci 25
    3- Hit lightning 50
    4- Hit velocity 50 (can't remember if velocity can reach 50 thougg)
    5- Lower req 20
    6- Lower weight 75
    7- Balanced (there are other receipes that give more than 1 prop, but I like balance more)
    8- DI 40

    Also, if you roll DI as one of the prop, it gets boosted by armslore. And it can further stack with recipes and materials that boosts DI. Bringing it over the 50 DI cap. Eg roll 50 DI from runic, add armslore bonus, add receipe bonus, add material bonus.

    Still, DI from a weapon is inferior to DI you get from armour due to how it is calculated. I am not sure how the DI cap (both in pvp and pvm) is applied though. Do 25 DI from a ring and 25 DI from a weapon reduce the remaining DI cap just as much? If so, DI on weapons is not desirable at all. I would rather get to my DI cap using non-weapons.

    And you don't need 8 properties for an uber bow. 3 or 4 solid properties that you know how to use is more than enough.

    Before I say anything further, it might be best if the OP can post a screenie.
     
  30. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Drats, petra posted before me...

    Yup, what I thought too :D
     
  31. mbraud4

    mbraud4 Sage
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    Sounds to me like some newbie to PVP got rocked by some bow, and all of a sudden its the most leet magical bow with 8 properties with 100% intensitiy b/c i never die with my marksman set. What a joke, OP should hide his head in the sand like an ostrich and wait for this hilarious thread to blow over...
     
  32. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    Here's the problem people are having.

    Early posts stated:
    I recently joined a PvP group the GM had a crossbow with unbelievable SSI mods other than the rather abnormal damage it delivers with lightning and Armor Iggy weapon extra's.

    Problem is crossbows don't have AI.

    Later on the OP posted:
    As far as what kinda bow I saw was used I said so it had Magical properties (as the word "magical" was on it's resume) like I've never seen before in my 2 years of play,very high SSI/ LifeLeech/Lightning/Poison/Armor Ignore as the GM told me.If you had your mouse cursor on the weapon as I had the list was very long.

    Now its a bow with Magical in the header and has AI. That again rules out any shortbow since none of them have AI as a special. The only other possibility would be if it was a Mystic Composite that dropped in a couple of the invasions. Until there is a picture of the bow/crossbow, or at least a list of mods and intensities, the only thing magical I'm sensing being used is magical mushrooms.
     
  33. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    LoL maybe he got confused by someone using a Weapon Engraving Tool on there bow. Should ask where the words yellow :)