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Killshots by pets should not give points or stat

Discussion in 'UO Factions' started by Larry, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. Larry

    Larry Guest

    This isn't PvM. Tamers can take a hike, if people wanted to fight monsters they would go to dungeons and fight them.

    "All Kill" should not be a tactic in PvP.
     
  2. agreed, pets in pvp and factions are the lamest form of lame

    ITS UNCOOL!!!!!!!!!!
     
  3. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    Mage tamers have always been apart of factions from day one. I use it sit and watch my nephew use my tamer in factions when he played. Before control slots he would go tame 30 dragons at once sit in the base, and wait for his victims. Be thankful that there is control slots now and only one dragon can be used at a time, and not 30.
     
  4. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Weren't control slots introduced before factions??
     
  5. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Nah, Michelle is right, they came later. I think they came out around t2a or renessaince.
     
  6. Pink Floyd

    Pink Floyd Sage
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    Yes, I remember people rolling around with 10+ dragons in factions. This is nothing to complain about in comparison.
     
  7. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    So that would also mean youd have to include all summons.

    Pixies, EV's, Deamons...
     
  8. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    /sign
     
  9. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    Oh but my Dragon, kissmeimirish, would be soooooooooooo bored just killing monsters. He would much rather munch on OJ's!
     
  10. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Even though I play a couple of gimped out tamers (to combat the speedhacks) I agree they shouldn't be in PvP. Pets should be like they are now for factions. As it stands now if you try to have your pet attack someone in your own faction it won't do it.
     
  11. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    I think they should just do their job and BALANCE it instead of rendering it useless. I don't see why tamers shouldn't be able to pvp it helps the less experienced pvp and I'm all for anything that facilitate pvp. I'm just not all for getting fire breathed for 80damage from a dragon. Also cu sidhes uncursed bite targets for equilvent to scribe damage exp/eb maybe even a few damage more. Cursed cu sidhes can bite for 46dmg. If the RNG goes off in the dogs favor it can do 138damage in about 3 seconds since they attempt to bite every 1.25seconds.
     
  12. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    I dont understand this pets not in PvP.

    Pets have always been in PvP...from packs of dragons...to packs of hellhounds/frenzieds and now dreadmares and GD's.

    It always been there, one of the great things about UO is that any template could if they choose or are forced to PvP, So what your saying is that if a faction guild starts spawning with a few tamers they would not be allowed to put the raiders in stat and force them to wait to re-raid?

    Or other people are suggesting that they wouldnt be able to defend full stop!

    Sorry guys...idiotic, yes balance of course, but dont "ban" a whole template thats possibly the most stupid thing ive ever heard!I even think not being able to attack fellow factioners with pets is stupid for the same above reasons.

    (oh before the flame my only faction char is a thief and i survive fine against pets)
     
  13. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    That's not much of a statement when a character is built entirely to run away from conflict with smoke bombs.
     
  14. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Most of the time i forget to bring smoke bombs...confusion pots ftw!

    Oh and invis jewels (which any1 can use to break target)

    I run alot...but i have got my fair share of kill shots...thanks to near 40damage exp pots!
     
  15. Saleena

    Saleena Guest

    Thats your dragon? That bad boy needs to be trained up because I know mine isn't trained up yet and it ate yours alive the other night when you guys were guarding...
     
  16. Banchee

    Banchee Guest

    I think if a dragon dies in Factions it should have a timer where it cannot be rezzed for 20 mins. This way we wouldn't have the problem of having the same damn dragon at full power being back in the fight after 30 seconds of vet'ing over and over. Also, they should make it so tamers can't pet ball if there dragons in trouble by not allowing it to work if it is in combat. Take away the fire breath attack in pvp, or cap it at 35.
     
  17. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Then a lone tamer would be in trouble vs a group. One person could just spam weaken on the pet while the tamer is seperated. I think that's a bad idea. I wouldn't mind damage toned down on some pets, but once again I think tamers should be a part of pvp, just no absurd damage bites on an all 70's suit or 50-80(dread and great dragon) damage firebreaths from screens away.
     
  18. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    Pet damage vs players capped at X amount of damage. Something between 25-35. Pet command chance % should perform a skill check if the real skill is enough to control it (instead of grabbing some taming jewels and joining the fight right after going into stats).
     
  19. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    While we're at it lets make every weapon do the same damage, make a standard swing speed regardless of dex, all weapons have same specials, all spells have same casting speed, and finally make all spells have the same damage.
     
  20. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    1) Pets deal more damage than players 2) Pets move fast 3) Pets dont have to stand still while casting spells
     
  21. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    1) When listing things off like this please separate them by pushing enter in between your attempted arguments.

    2) I already stated that I agree that pets are overpowered (see previous posts)

    3) Pets don't really move that fast compared to player mounted speed

    4) Capping damage for every attack at 25-35 would eliminate tactics and diversity that makes UO PvP great. Pets need attention, I think everything else (besides speedhack) is fine.
     
  22. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    I would like to see more player skill instead of tamer-archers with ninjitsu using a speedhack, dismounting, slapping their pet on you and running twice as fast as the normal speed in Animal Form if they get damaged.
     
  23. Archon007

    Archon007 Guest

    The real issue is the greater dragons and mares are too strong.

    Taming is part of the game learn it, love it, get over it.

    PS. I don't play a tamer except for doom and Lady M's
     
  24. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    Yes he does need trained back, poor dragon dies as much as I do. But then most of the time, I am the only tamer on, so of course we die alot :)
    I can out run a dragon or use a smoke bomb to break the target. I have more of a problem with Archers, that hit every single time, and of course the speed in which they can outrun me. In wolf form and max hp regen, chugging pots and 3 archers using moving shot, I die way to fast.
     
  25. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    They gotta do something about speeder programs first...

    And not allowing pets in PvP is going to cripple tamer useage at champ spawns... what good would a tamer be if they can't really fight back? Not gonna do a mage tamer any good to cast spells at someone if they have no Eval.

    Perhaps only allow pets to All Kill in dungeon rule sets?

    So...Despise/Destard/T2A etc... that way tamers have a way to defend themselves if attacked.

    In non dungeon rule sets they refuse to attack... kinda like when you try to sick a pet on someone sitting in their house.

    I agree that pets are overpowered, and need a damage cap etc etc... but lets not leave them completey unplayable in Fel by not allowing them to defend themselves with a pet.
     
  26. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    I don't like your idea turd. So a tamer could be viable ONLY at champ places but no where else, no gates, no factions, or any other random place.

    I think the fix just needs to come from balancing pets damage.
     
  27. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I was just giving an alternative from making tamers completely useless/defenseless if attacked.

    They could extend faction tamers to All Kill w/in the Faction cities. Yew gate fighting is lame anyways.

    That's how I feel too, but the majority of people feel tamers should be taken completely out of the PvP scene. It's the pets that need a nerf.
     
  28. rsinbad

    rsinbad Guest

    yes yes we should get nerfed whatever bugs us. No need for tactical adjustments let's just get them nerfed hoorray why didn't developers think about that. My my you are so smart my lad. It is not our fault that you cannot adjust or prepare a team tactic to get rid of tamers and their pets. In this game everyone could be taken down as long as peeps use proper tactics. Think about it...
     
  29. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    rsinbad, even most PvP tamers will agree that pets are overpowered in PvP. It's not about nerfing what bugs us... it's about balancing out the playing field so that PvP is actually fun.

    I play my archer/tamer for two reasons.

    One, It's a pain in the butt running people down who use speed enhancing programs. Putting them on foot, and saying all kill is easy and quick enough that it doesn't give them much time to run away... super fast.

    Two, this game has gotten so item based, that it doesn't take much real skill anymore. I've grown tiresome of how gimp some templates are that instead of actually fighting the person, i'd rather **** them off and just dismount + all kill them and move along.

    PvP tamers is like having the Easy button... I don't use it as much as I used too since i've revamped one of my templates and it's a lot more fun now so I play that.

    It's not fun being on the receiving end of a mare/beetle or GD, Dread warhorse. It's not fun fighting someone who's pets cast insanely fast and can do mad damage in a matter of seconds.

    It's not just about adjusting tactics. There's not much you can do, other than run around a corner (only in Yew) or use evade (not everyone wants to play a samurai) in order to survive my pet's attack. And that's not even using a GD.

    There's not much of a way to use different tactics against a blue tamer, who can dismount you + all kill with a GD and do 80+ damage in one smooth flow if RNG goes their way, you're on foot, almost dead, with a tamer chasing you using moving shot and a GD chasing you casting spells at the same time.

    IF they would just cap pet damage in PvP (mainly firebreath from GD/Dread), give pets casting time (FC/FCR) then that would solve a lot of the issue against PvP tamers.

    There are tactics to get around dying to a tamer... and killing one, but that's not going to solve how powerful certain pets are in PvP.

    I think that's the biggest debate. The unfair amount of damage pets do in PvP. In order for PvP to be fun, it needs some sort of balance so that most templates can/should be able to compete with one another so that we have variety in this game... it's no fun when everyone runs around with the same dang template. That's what makes UO great, diversity of character creation.

    I don't want to see tamers taken out of PvP completely. I love using my tamer against people, due to the fact I can drop people so fast and move onto the next then get back to what I was doing. I love using other chrs in PvP as well. I spawn with my tamer and that's why my template is also geared towards PvP, we get raided a lot...so I've got a template to kill the raiders as quickly as possible. And I admit, some of the things pets can do is absurd.
     
  30. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    And just what shard do you play on turd? Because here on Great Lakes, they (the opposing factions) do very well against the Greater Dragons unless they are cornered in a small area with no escape. Archers with Enemy of One, and a Reptile slayer can do major damage to the dragon.
     
  31. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I play on Baja. I rarely if ever use a GD in PvP unless i'm on my spawning tamer. They're just too slow for me.
     
  32. Larry

    Larry Guest

    Dread Mares are more of a problem that GD's. Having two skills (taming and lore) shoudn't give you instant 60 damage by saying two words. Its ******** and has no place in PvP.

    Pure tamers are not the problem, its tamer mages and Cu dexers that are ridiculous.
     
  33. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Factions came out, months after UOR. Control slots as we know them came out with AOS though more limitations were put into pet ownership before then.
     
  34. Nonel

    Nonel Sage
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    Thought I remembered factions being closer to LBR.

    Edit: Albeit, my memory is ****.
     
  35. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    I agree with you they are to slow, that is why we use them in a small area. If you don't trap an OJ, they will skip off your screen in a heartbeat on GL.
     
  36. rockkandy

    rockkandy Guest

    having watched this thread from the start I feel that I have a firm grasp as to what's going on here. True old school pvp'rs say do away with tamers. Trammies who either don't want to take the time to learn a real temp or are just horrible on a char that takes more than 3 macros to play whine about all the "hax". All in all playing from the start of uo I have never seen such an over powered and re-donculous template. To those of you who say they have always been used, think back to the Brit gy fighting days. I NEVER saw a pet there. Why?? One they couldn't bond and therefore if they died were lost forever. Two pvp is just that.... Player vs player. NOT player vs player and their pets.

    Basically the people for tamers have come to accept the fact that without a bola or a heavy cross bow and an "all kill" macro they would be left killing swoops and blood eles.

    My fix? Make pets in fel die for good if killed. Don't like that idea? Then keep ur blaze cu in tram. Make players controlling magical pets or pets that have an ability, unable to use any item to dismount an opponent. Cap pet dmg and casting. (getting hit by 2 explos and a fs all within 3 secs from one pet is dumb). And last but not least, put a restriction on what pets can be used against other players. Make tamers demonstrat atleast an ounce of pvp skill instead of letting them d-mount, all kill, and hide. Like I stated previously that is not pvp.


    All in all what I'm saying is..... All kill is not skill. Tram is that way. >>>>
     
  37. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    And force everyone to play a dexer or necro to do champ spawns?

    I play my necro/tamer because it's easier to move champ spawns alonga nd get them done sooner. If we get raided, I turn to PvP. It'd be pretty lame to force a playstyle on someone if they wanted to do a champ spawn, but couldn't, in fear that their pet would be perma dead if it died in Fel just because some people can't hack it vs. a tamer.

    What about the WoD AI archer? I didn't play during that time, but I heard it was quite the PITA. And the unbreakable Nerve Strike template?

    I'm an old school PvPer. I don't think tamers should be done away with, pets need a look at. Off screen casting, FC/FCR cap, Firebreath in PvP damage cap etc...don't take tamers completely out of PvP, how the eff do you expect a tamer to defend themselves if attacked in Fel?

    Also, don't talk about trammies learning a real temp, just because someone has a tamer doesn't make them a trammy. Get off your Fel [email protected] fanboi wannabe high horse. I'll complain about all the stupid lame annoying hax all I want. How the hell do you expect a legit player, who has a legit template to keep up with some trashy pendejo who resorts to using speeder/uomedic and like programs just so they can be 'leet' and kill everyone because nobody can catch the person, even if they're on foot.

    And PvP is a bunch of patsies banding together to use field hacks, skip away at any sign of near death or auto chugging now is it? That's not the PvP I know, but it's the PvP of today's UO, deal with tamers as we deal with the hacking posers who call themselves PvPers.
     
  38. rockkandy

    rockkandy Guest

    agh turd. Epitomy of an angry trammie. I'm guessing that you don't get the whole pets perma death in fel idea. This doesn't eliminate tamers, it just makes the over worked super trained pets a bit less likely to be played. With pets dying tamers would either have to keep a stable full of unworked pets or go tame new ones. Thus making it a bit more equal.

    Wod archers were nerfed almost as soon as they came out. Nerve strike mages were gimp but easily beatable by many temps. I really don't think you get it.

    There will always be the "gimp temp" in pvp. All of which include. Player vs player and not player vs player/pet. That's pvpp not pvp.

    You sir have poured yourself right into the mold I was shaping out with über trammie tools. Every template has it's place in uo. Tamers belong in dungeons fighting monsters. Not in player vs player fights.

    Next thing you know people will want their crafters having the ability to pvp just because they have been around since day 1 as well.
     
  39. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    So if tamers belong in dungeons fighting monsters, then why are there so many tamers that do champ spawns?

    Lol...I'm no trammie. Yes I PvM. Yes I PvP. I PvP with my bushido/swords chr more than I do any other character. I'm in Fel 90% of the time other than when i'm stocking my vendor or training a pet. Just because I don't want tamers completely nerfed doesn't make me a Trammie.

    If you've read other similar threads about tamers being overpowered and that they should be taken out of PvP completely, you'd realize that even though I play a tamer off and on, i'm no trammie but AGREE that pet's SHOULD be nerfed.

    Firebreath needs toned down in PvP only.
    FC/FCR needs a cap for pets.
    Off screen casting
    Pet's getting interrupted while casting etc.

    Let's throw in EA actually doing something about the numerous cheats out there as well to make it equal.

    I've PvP'd ever since 98' and have always been able to hold my own. In today's UO, people find it 'ok' to use various scripts/programs to aid them in PvP. People that use this, how the heck am I supposed to fight a 'fair' fight and be equal with them if I myself don't use the same programs?

    Typically a dexer 'should' be able to own a mage due to the fact a dexer can dish out more damage faster...kinda hard to do when the mage runs 4-5 tiles at a time while I run one.

    Exaggerate much?
     
  40. rockkandy

    rockkandy Guest

    Quote 1. Why? U ask. The answer is plain and simple. Because they have the security blanket pet. Without the resable greater drag or super dog/mare they would be back to swoops

    Quote 2. U play a nerve strike dexxie eh? Enough said

    Quote 3. There always have and always will be programs that people use to TRY to get a leg up. I use none of these and yet miraculously I haven't a single problem pvping. And no I don't use the favored Necro Mage temp. I'm just a straight old school tactics mage. Although I find pets annoying I still don't have too much of a problem with them as they ALL can be paralized.
    Sounds to me like you want everyone to have a toe to toe on 56k and it's not gonna happen.

    Quote 4. I see that being the next complaint. "my smith should be able to smelt your armor while you are wearing it this making it useless!!" or "my fletcher should be able to break bows because he knows the way they are made"



    Please sir step this way >>>>>>>>
     
  41. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    If you don't have a problem with pets as they can all be paralized like you said, you should whine a lot less. You want to render tamers useless. I think there is a vast difference between balancing pets and taking them out of pvp all together. I feel like a no tamers in pvp would nerf a lot of pvp since players not on the top tiers hide behind their super dragons and such.

    I would not care if they continued to do so, however, they would have to do so without having firebreaths hitting for 60-80dmg and tripple spells off screen.

    Your smith/bow example of things was not funny, and a terrible anaolgy.
     
  42. Nonel

    Nonel Sage
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    Skill can top speeders. I dont use any 3rd party proggies for UO, not even UO-A...but I often have no problem escaping a speeder gank or chasing people down. Direction changes, trees, other players, cutting off angles can all be your friend. Use UOAM when fighting with a group...watch the pattern that your enemy is running, and plan ambushes along his path while a guildie or two pursues.

    Not always effective, but point being you don't have to cheat to compete with the cheaters. I do just find catching and evading people running speeders.

    People forget the old days. The days of using your numpad to run, because UO-A didn't exist. No speeders, no dismounts.....everyone has to use programs (illegal or legal) as a crutch.

    UO seems to be following the same path as the real world. Utter pussification.
     
  43. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    As long as I have been in Fel, they have complained about tamers and pets in pvp and will continue to whine and cry about them. Get over it, even if they do nerf the Greater Dragons and DreadMares, there will still be tamers in Fel and in Factions. :danceb::danceb::danceb:
     
  44. Traumatized

    Traumatized Adventurer
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    IMO taming is fine, i dont mind fighting a group with a tamer or two in it, most people these days are just too lazy to stratigize to eliminate a tamer from a group. Tamers, just like dismounters, and stealthers provide a special role in a group. Do more to prevent speed hackers imo, tamers are fine, people just need to stop whineing about dieing and figure out how to make them useless in a fight.
     
  45. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Tramatized what would you do in a 1v1 situation while staying on screen vs a greater dragon while playing a mage. So everyone can stop whineing, Im sure you have an easy solution to it all.
     
  46. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    My main char is a necro mage when PVPing. Here are my reasons for why tamers are perfectly fine in PVP.

    1. They don't have an IQ anything near to a player.

    2. There are numerous ways to deal with pets.

    3. Slayers work against pets. Also, peacemaking and discord work against any pet which are extremely effective when fighting tamers.

    4. They can be paralyzed and then invised, thus making the tamer completely useless until they manage to cast reveal on the pet.

    5. You can invis and the pet will stop attacking you.

    6. Controlling these pets such as cu sidhe, dread mare, greater dragon all take around 200 extra skill points at the minimum.

    7. Most of these PVP tamers do not have veterinary on their template which makes them even more useless if it dies. If they do then that is 300 points out of their template.

    8. Pet balls are fixed, bolas are fixed and there are anti-bola scripts out there, you can go into animal form to escape any dismount gank involving a tamer, faction runes, ect.

    9. Quit complaining and evolve.
     
  47. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Last time you talked about those solutions red sky you also said make sure you have other people with you as a way to deal with it. They aren't balanced, I gurantee you can't stay in an area[farms/wrong] with a greater dragon, a dreadmare or a cu sidhe.

    Unless you're claiming you can just run away, in which case that doesn't make them any less powerful, it just means you have no solution.

    I'll bet you any amount of money you lose to a tamer when you're not running, even with your methods that you claim make a tamer "completely worthless".

    We both know you die 1v1 to a cu, dread mare, or greater dragon.
    Stop acting like you fight this template and win.
     
  48. Larry

    Larry Guest


    LOL.

    There's so many factual errors in this its laughable. Invising a pet makes it worthless? Discord and peacemaking? Slayers? Faction runes? These are your excuses?

    Have you ever PvPed at all? What shard do you play? Holy cow....
     
  49. Laf

    Laf Guest

    LOL Larry./

    I actually prefer the days when morons tried to pvp with multiple dragons...summons.. etc.
    Used to run a wrestle peace mage, with stealing. And all the tamers were 100% worthless VS. Warriors couldnt cure without aids. Tanks couldnt fight without hally/axe/etc.
    And mages never had regs.

    While I laughed and danced to my beautiful music..

    I say Revert UO.
    That wont happen.. So.. Adapt or Kwit.


    [edit= And dont feed me the 'you cant steal axes or hally bs. its called "Bless" items.
     
  50. Laf

    Laf Guest

    Maybe the mare would be a challenge, Depending On the template of the tamer.
    The drag, Rep Scrapper's wins. And Cu' Worthless, w/use of Paralize, Para-Field, Energy Field. Etc.

    Im fairly certain I can drop any tamer within farms on mage without too much of a problem.
    Them Bak Kitsunes would be annoying to deal with in a small area like that. Only because they slowly bleed you and cast 300 mini spells on you too.