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KR, SA, Enhanced Client (whatever you want to call it)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by ingsmsico, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    is it true this client is still in BETA after 3 years? Wikipedia states that that client was released in August of 2007.

    a 3 year BETA? for real? sounds like an epic failure to me.

    I bet the Dev's wouldn't dare tell us what percentage of the playerbase actually uses the so-called "Enhanced Client"

    I think it's safe to say it is under 50%

    I will stick with the real UO, thanks.
     
  2. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    SA was released end of last year like sept or oct i forget exactly!
     
  3. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    as far as I know, the only real difference between the KR client and the so-called "Enhanced Client" is that the graphics were changed. it's still the same program that has been in BETA for 3 years. correct?
     
  4. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    The Enchanted Client, Which is basicly the Kingdom Reborn client but better (and worse in some cases) was released last year with Stygian Abyss, So it isn't quite a 3 year beta.

    The Devs are slowly fixing bugs, Very slowly.. But it isn't an epic failure imo.

    Your probably right with the under 50% population using it, However I really suggest everyone tries it, Spend an hour setting up some macros and adjusting the options. Once its setup right, I think its fantastic.
     
  5. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    I may consider trying it when it is out of it's BETA. I don't test video games for free let alone pay for the privilege, sorry EA
     
  6. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    But you can still complain about it? rolleyes:
     
  7. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I personally like it once you use it and get it set up (and I mean more than a couple hours) I think you may like it ! the problem is its totally different from the Classic and some people have a hard time changing!
     
  8. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    Ok its time for me to go fishing you all have fun! (real life fishing )
     
  9. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    as long as it in BETA clearly they feel it is an unfinished product. I will wait until the official release date and then try it, that's only fair.
     
  10. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    It clearly is an unfinished product, as it still has a lot of bugs. However, I've been using the EC since almost a year, and despite of all the bugs I'd prefer it to the Classic Client without hesitation. Concerning playability, the KR Client was much more problematic, to my opinion.

    So, I'd recommend to get used to the Enhanced Client, cause I think it is absolutely worth the while (unless you have a 10 year old computer).
     
  11. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    If you're not actually going to try and use it, then why complain about something you're not using?

    Yes it's still in "beta" (really in terminology only as the client is freely downloadable and in as much of a "beta" state as the 2d client because of that), but that isn't a failure of the client, but a failure of the devs for NOT FINISHING YET ANOTHER ASPECT OF UO.

    So give it a shot, see what you think before becoming yet another blind ranter of a client you don't even use. Need help? Try the EC forum here as there are many people there who are willing to help you out and have worked as much as the dev team (maybe even more) on making the client even better.
     
  12. Fink

    Fink Guest

    You don't "beta test" UO?

    You've never experienced a time warp, shard revert, bug, nerf, exploit, glitch, crash, etc? And you consider yourself a player of the "real" UO? :confused:
     
  13. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Hawkeye, Dermott, Fink..

    I know we all prefer the EC, and would like to see it flourish. But seriously, the p(l)ayerbase has serious reservations about the client - some valid reasons, some completely moronic.

    I think we're beating our heads against the wall here expousing the EC's virtues and why people should 'give it a try,' whilst condemning the Dev Team for their shoddy, lackluster, and downright lazy support of the client.

    We may be willing to put up with its faults in order to play, and we may enjoy the client regardless, however, most people don't have that kind of patience and are only going to be driven more firmly into the 2D camp if we keep pressing them to use a buggy client.


    Dev Team...

    You need to devote some serious effort to the EC ASAP. Allowing it to langish for 5 months is inexcusable, and the "we're working on it... expect lots of fixes soon" rings hollow. No visible improvements = no activity = another failed client.

    You should be thankful the modders have fixed your awful GUI.
     
  14. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    He don't play UO then, because we been beta testing it for more than 12 yrs.:)
     
  15. Grimwar

    Grimwar Lore Keeper
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    Uo is a game, you can still play it with it's very old code, as in 2D uo or try KR beta to test the newer client.
    Problem is Uo is stuck with the 2D player (good for lower system specs), while the newer client is still full of bugs, its kinda like windows and Dos.
    Windows #7 states it's a fully functional virtual operating system, but it still has the old Dos code, while we all who have it installed BETA test it. :)
     
  16. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Nope, Windows' kernel was completely rewritten. True 32-bit versions of Windows, starting with NT and including 2000, XP, Vista, and Win7 are not based upon DOS.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS
     
  17. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    I'm not complaining about anything. I simply asked why it is still in BETA after 3 years.

    I agree 100%

    sure, when it's done. I'm not going to Beta test a product for a huge corporation for free, let alone pay for that privilege. lol.
     
  18. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    There's no such thing as "done" in a persistent world environment, not even the 2d client is truly "done" (otherwise, why did they add in the new crafting functionalities, the new insurance menus, etc?).
     
  19. canary

    canary Guest

    Okay, time to put the pom poms down stud. Please tell me you aren't defending the poor amount of love given to the desperately-needs-taken-care-of EC client. There is 'done' (EC Client) and DONE (Legacy). One needs vast improvement, the other can deal with tweaks here and there in order to pretty it up or make it just a little cleaner.
     
  20. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Not in the least... but the initial statement still holds true, a persistent world by nature is never finished, neither client nor serverwise.

    Does the EC need work? Absolutely, I have PLENTY of problems myself with the EC even as a defender of it.

    But if the OP isn't going to play it "until it's done"... well then they're never going to play it at all making this thread an exercise in pointlessness.

    If someone has at the very least given the client a chance and still has problems, that I can understand... not even attempting to install it? Pointless.
     
  21. Grimwar

    Grimwar Lore Keeper
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    Disk Operating System, Ahhh i see old.
    But DOS is still a part of the boot sector, windows 7 it may be but the old cmd dos code works.

    Just like 2d and KR.
     
  22. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    there is a serious flaw in your statement..
    mostly everything "online" never leaves beta and usually gets superseded by a new beta product.

    the "official release" of the EC client was with the SA upgrade.. its time to try it :)
     
  23. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Dermott,

    There is a point where a client is "done." Expansion and content improvements are completely separate. "Done" means the client is stable, all the main features are implemented and known to be working, and bugs are at a minimum.

    Changing a few gumps here or there are tweaks. There has been no significant improvements to 2D since T2A. Chat doesn't count.. Hell its not even a new feature.

    The EC is a disgrace and a joke. YOU and Gildar are the main reasons a lot of people I know will even consider launching it instead of 2D. You should be proud of that.

    When Hawkeye's list is all checked off, and we can honestly look at the EC without cringing slightly then it will be "Done."

    Till then, telling people to go try it out is just going to push them back to 2D.
     
  24. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    I disagree. I really, really, really, really, did not like KR and never gave it more than a lame attempt to try it. I treated the EC exactly the same. I tried it. I hated the way it looked compared to 2d. I logged out. Finally, I said I'd commit to giving it a fair tryout. At this point I can't go back to 2d. There's just too much functionality in the EC that has made every aspect of gameplay, for me, better.

    I absolutely have a list of things that I still want in the EC and I have list of bugs that annoy me but you know what, I have equal lists about the classic client too.

    It comes down to this. There are plenty of players that have tried the EC and don't like it. Fine. If however you won't even try it out, then your opinion and comparison isn't even valid.
     
  25. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Hehe, my list is extensive and still 95% unfixed. Which is a shame, really.

    I'm not kidding anyone or trying to convince people that the EC is a great client for whatever reason. But honestly, even despite all the bugs (many of them are not game breaking, some of them are in certain situations) I still prefer it over the old Legacy Client.

    I am very critical about clients. I tried the Kingdom Reborn Client for a few weeks and it really didn't do it for me, as I had serious disadvantages, and I had to switch back to the old client for several tasks. This is not the case with the Enhanced Client. The most annoying thing is the lag caused by particle effects, and the rubberbanding issues. But the functionality is so much better than the Legacy Client that I am even willing to endure these issues. Which means a lot.

    I'm not advertising the EC. I still think it is embarrassing that the developers did not even try to fix those bugs during the past 10 months, although they have been reported a hundred times.

    But still, going back to the Legacy Client is not an option for me anymore. Playing it feels like a choppy slide-show in low resolution, with a crappy interface, requiring imperfect add-on programs like UO Assist. This may have been good 12 years ago, but today? No way!
     
  26. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Hawkeye,

    Don't get me wrong, *I* personally like the EC... At least the client itself, not so hot on the craptastic graphics. I only play 2D when I need to make sure books are arranged nicely for people in 2D (since the EC's placeing-item-in-pack code was apparently coded by a 4yo...)

    The Dev Team should be ashamed of the EC and the lack of effort put into it since last September.


    Honestly its past time for the team to give us some solid info on what they are doing with the client. No more BS. No more waffeling. Its put up or shut up time.
     
  27. Zodia

    Zodia Guest

    Hopefully the update says "We are discontinuing the EC, just like we discontinued the Third Dawn client and the KR abomination. We have learned from our mistakes, and will update the 2D client only and never attempt to split the playerbase again."

    EC is a complete failure. Some of you are just still in the denial phase.
     
  28. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    I too, just gave the KR client a cursory trial, and didn tlike the way I sat on mounts, the rubber banding, etc.

    When the "EC" was release, I decided if this was the future, I needed to get used to it.
    For three weeks, I played it exclusively, except for vendor stocking (stocking in that grid thing of a backpack, the items to a 2d user would be hidden behind other goods) .
    Finally gave it up because of two issues that were intensely annoying to me.

    1. Cast a spell, EV or whatever, run up into spawn, target, and just as you are ready to release, you get teleported back several tiles...hated that, but was gonna live with it if I had to. This seemed to always screw up the targetting.

    2. Running for your life, or again, running into a spawn to either heal, cure someone, or cast offensive spell, and I invariably ended up with that booger (the spell icon) hanging on the end of my cursor, couldnt get rid of it, couldnt target, blah blah blah...By the time I would get it fixed, it would be too late.

    The combination of the two, after a few weeks, just annoyed me back to the 2d client.

    *shrugs*
     
  29. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    I had that same problem a bit myself. I noticed that once I switched from legacy targeting it almost never happens now. Additionally, all my most used hotbar icons are now on hotkeys so I only have to actually click on the more rarely used ones. It's definitely minimized this happening.
     
  30. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    But, in the end, and not to be argumentative, a new enhanced and improved client should be smoother, More Bug Free than the one it's replacing, and easier to operate.

    But instead, we have to learn a Whole New System of Workarounds and Get By Methods.

    Think that was the most discouraging thing...so like most, I went back to what I was familiar and comfortable with until it is no longer available to me.
     
  31. altarego

    altarego Guest

    Makes you wonder how much faster they'd be able to fix the EC if they simply devoted the (not inconsiderable, as often mentioned) time and resources completely away from CC.

    You know, simply stop updating the CC for 6 months and see what happens when we have a coordinated client development path. And then simply turn no longer support it.

    Such a sweet, sweet dream...
     
  32. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    I'd love to use the EC, the macro system is great, and there are a lot of things I like about it, and can run it just fine too.
    Played it for a few weeks, maybe a month.

    But the thing that makes me stay in 2D is the "solidity" of the graphics. I can't really see in SA very well. Everything seems rather ethereal and hard to see (the glow doesn't help either)
    Hard to tell which monster you're attacking since it's only outlined with a bright gold circle which tends to blend in with other monsters.
    And it's hard to tell which spells are being cast since they're basically all "glow blobs" of some sort.
    Only takes one missed blood oath graphic to dislike this.

    Nice client if you don't mind the general etherealness.

    I could probably use it if there was an option to add a black outline to everything and cut out most of the glow. And perhaps a way to darken the colors too.
     
  33. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    To answer that question, I'll point to your next sentence:

    In other words... No. The Kingdom Reborn client was released in August of 2007... as in, stopped being in Beta.

    The Kingdom Reborn client was first officially announced on August 23, 2006.
    I don't have the date that it was first available as a Beta.
    It was officially released on August 26, 2007.
    It was officially abandoned on September 7, 2009.

    The Enhanced Client beta officially began on July 17, 2009.
    The Enhanced Client has been in Beta since then.


    The reason it has taken so long to get a replacement for the 2D client is because the UO playerbase (as a whole) is more stubborn than a bull, and resists change every step of the way... not to mention the development team moving across the country, going through a massive set of layoffs, and releasing a major expansion during that time.

    And something taking years to come out is a terrible reason not to use it.
     
  34. canary

    canary Guest

    Yes, let's just bypass the fact that many find it visually poor, riddled with bugs, not up to par to the Legacy client options, or that it is not being worked on pretty much at ALL by the UO team. God forbid!! It's so much easier to say 'ppl are stubborn' I suppose. rolleyes:
     
  35. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    I wouldn't say the stubbornness is the only reason, but by the same token, you simply CANNOT say that it is NOT a reason either. Even if the EC were completely finished, solved world hunger stopped global warming and fixed health care, there would still be posters here spamming every EC thread they can with how much they absolutely hate the client and think it should be cancelled.
     
  36. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Fixed health care...well, if it did THAT!
    *grins*
     
  37. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    Stay cool more and more players using it, all of my friends began using it. And also the resolution forces more and more to use it. The time of a 4/3 monitor is over. But you are right we need a strong development in this sector, to bring it into a cool nice looking and playable state!
     
  38. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    If people weren't stubborn, there could be a fixed set of requirements... and when there is a fixed set of requirements, software development goes MUCH faster.
    If you take the time that developers spent changing things that were already in a state that could be considered done... you'd probably have more than enough spare time to fix all the bugs that can be reproduced and add in a slew of extra options for people to use.

    Is stubborn-ness the only thing that has slowed new client development for UO? No... but I'm certain that it is by far the greatest contributor.
     
  39. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    But i have to say, i liked the KR client more than the EC now. The graphics and the concept was much better. From the technical side, it was bad, but after 3 years of time, this should be clear.

    But the result was poor after this 3 years, the graphics and effects are full of pixels like 2d, the enviroment looks like 2d, heck why should i play the EC if it all looks like 2d, then i can play the better performend 2d client!
     
  40. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    i have to say, i liked the KR client more than the EC now. The graphics and the concept was much better.

    Agreed 100%. If they are keeping the 2d client (which given the specs of available netbooks, they really should as it makes UO a good traveler's game as well), that's become VERY acceptable to me. HOWEVER, they NEVER NEVER NEVER should have gimped the EC's graphics as badly as they did. Yeah the KR graphics still needed a "clean-up" pass, and yeah I can even see flipping the default on the Legacy/KR graphics option to Legacy and let people opt-in to KR's graphic set, but they made a HUGE mistake in scrapping KR's graphics almost entirely (there are still some left if you know what to look for... check out a war axe in EC and you'll see). Also, it's sad to remember what the SA expansion was going to be with the KR client compared to what it is now... a grand vision of an updated game turned into a decent, but comparatively lackluster release... yeah the systems are nice, but really nothing really as ground shaking as it could have been.

    From the technical side, it was bad,

    That's because as we well know... they never let themselves finish it... instead they started (again) from scratch, stripped out the WORKING pieces that were fan favorites (half of the Atlas customization, the ability to add in external fonts, the ability to make an all in one animal lore gump, hiding the Make # and Make Max functions 3 menus deep in the crafting menu instead of on the main gump) and fixed only a small number of bugs (we still have a large list that were in KR and are STILL THERE).

    The EC is what you get when you "compromise" you try to make everyone happy and end up with a solution that NOONE really likes.

    Let the 2d client be for the lower end, let EC PUSH people's systems.
     
  41. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Ok so I am being stubborn because I can only play the EC for about an hour a day before my head splits wide open. But yet I can play the CC all day and have no prob. Give us a switch for CC/EC/KR graphics and I will glady play it more than an hour a month. CALL ME STUBBORN! :bdh::bdh:
     
  42. gjohnson5

    gjohnson5 Guest

    Starting with Vista, you couldn't use the underlying OS without using the MFC / ActiveX that built on top of it. The underlying DOS based OS could be utilized simply by initiating the recovery console in XP or Windows 2003. Yes in those OS, there is still an underlying DOS based OS
     
  43. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    "The EC is what you get when you "compromise" you try to make everyone happy and end up with a solution that NOONE really likes."


    Well said Dermott.
     
  44. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Yeah, I agree that's an issue, too. Sometimes graphics could be more "crisp". But I got used to it over the months.
     
  45. CroakerTnT

    CroakerTnT Guest

    I'm slow to change. I still have felluca and trammel moonstones.
     
  46. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    Want to know the first rule of of a good software upgrade is or should be? Make sure it, at the very least, performs everything the previous version can do. There's a start for "set of requirements".

    It looks nothing like the original client.
    It doesn't function as well as the original client.

    That's not an upgrade, it's a retro-fit. They did JUST barely enough to consider calling it a UO client and made sure it could communicate with the server.

    Know what they should have done? Made a client with the new code that PERFECTLY MIMICS the look and feel of the 2D client - Right down to the crisp, decade-old 2D graphics. When they can do that, THEN they start changing the interface and messing around with the art style. As it stands, they can't even get some very basic elements of UO working without complication (See Hawkeye's bug list).

    And don't blame people. That's a tired crutch that a lot of KR/EC supporters love to prop themselves up with. People are less stubborn if whatever you're trying to shove down their throats doesn't suck ass compared to what they already use. If it DIDN'T suck, they would probably use it. Hawkeye is living proof- If the client can do what you need it to do, and you like it's improvements, people will switch. It simply.. Isn't.. There.. Yet.

    Think of Classic Client as Windows XP - Right now, EC is Windows Vista. I used Vista at work, and I liked it.. Don't know what everyone was complaining about. Did everything I needed just fine and had the improvements I wanted.. But Windows 7? Beats the hell out it, and it's plainly obvious to everyone that it does.. It even can run XP Mode IN Windows 7. As soon as I can afford it, I'll be buying a copy for home use too.

    I'm still waiting on the Windows 7 of the UO world, and I suspect, most others are too.
     
  47. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    WAAAAAAAAAAAA I hate the EC!!!

    WAAAAAAAAAAAA I hate the CC!!

    Same ole same ole.

    :popcorn:
     
  48. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    Behehe same here, iam with dermott too, there are a few things i cant understand, i have played KR one or two weeks ago, only for testing on my own server emulator, and it runs fast and looks pretty unbelievable for me ;).

    And also the sound comes clear and on the same level, the other players are moving smooth animated with sound on the screen. the problem in KR were the instability and the naked death bug, which were really game breaker bugs.
     
  49. I've tried every client this game has ever had. From what I can tell the EC is pretty much the old third dawn client with the KR models, and other parts of the KR interface.

    I feel the same way about the EC as I did Third Dawn. its crap. I'm sorry, but I cant be nice about this. If they game devs had invested as much time into the classic client as they did these 3d abominations, we could have something truly spectacular.

    I hate to even say that kinda thing, because its obvious the devs do try hard on these new clients, and I know how I feel when I work hard on something only to have someone else tell me it sucks.

    The one "new" client that I felt had the best potential was during the very first part of the KR client introduction. After it was released it went to poop.