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Lack of discussion rather major Faction additions

Discussion in 'UO Factions' started by JC the Builder, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Since the Faction additions were announced 3 days ago in the Five on Friday I haven't seen much discussion about them. You would think that the first faction additions in 8 years would be the hot topic of the weekend.

    It would have been a better idea to wait and release all the Faction details at once. At the moment these changes alone appear to completely miss the mark in trying to get players interested in Factions. Serious PVPers already have their suits maxed out in item properties. There is nothing of note except two items (new potions and enhanced bandages) which probably should not be faction specific to begin with. Why can a Faction member use a remove curse bandage but not a regular player. It doesn't make any sense.

    Announcing the changes in this way has taken some of the wind out of the sails when the "big" announcement comes and done nothing but distressed some players who currently don't see any reason to take part in Factions.
     
  2. Dubar

    Dubar Journeyman
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    im not sure what to think of it just yet, and i think alot of people are the same

    the extra dci on the glasses for when you get hit by lower defense and the regen on orny is nice but im not sure if guilds will join just for those

    i think the new potions will be the real deal breaker, depending on how good they are
     
  3. fusion SL

    fusion SL Guest

    well wat i do believe uo is trying to do id that they are trying to bring more people into factions a=on all the shards around. i mean all that extra crap, 5 more dex on crimmy and 12 more resist for carapace, doesnt sound too bad. all uo is trying to do is bring more attention to factions, although they should be freaking focusing on animals, that are fing powerd up and can hit u with 4 flame strikes in 4 seconds when u are 4 screens away, and the beetles and drags with like 800 mana.:scholar::gun:
     
  4. Cadderly

    Cadderly Journeyman
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    I feel the same as dubar. Not sure exactly what to think of it yet.

    Tram:

    Bonus: Will attract some trammel players to factions to get some items and they might start enjoying it. Faction fights certainly alot different from your typical yew gate and champ fights which to most trammel players has given pvp in general a sour taist in there mouth.

    Negative: Plenty of trammel players will simply join factions to obtain items and kill a buddy or second account charicters to stay at the top teirs. Probably won't partake in faction activities at all. Now that you can have multiple charicters on same account it won't take long before this starts getting abused. They might have to take away the option of "I honor thee."

    Fel: Same seniero, some champ pvp guilds may join factions to obtain these new items just to fight against non faction players without worry of stat loss.

    Might not honestly hurt to remove the ability to transfer kill points. The person has to stay atleast a little active in factions to use them. It's typically easier to loose faction points then gain and hold onto them imo.

    Either way if it gets abused to much they will slowely change the problems. If it works they will be hero's and just give them more motivation to amp up factions.
     
  5. Rix/\

    Rix/\ Guest



    I disagree, these changes are what brought me back to the game. I've been reading about the revamp to the faction for a couple months. I'm totally excited about it as well as alot of my old friends who have joined me in our return.

    Secondly serious pvpers are always looking for more challanges, only those trammy pvpers are worried about suits and items.
    There were more then just potions and bandages mentioned that caught my eye like the artifacts available according to rank.

    All in all I think they are on the right track with factions and hope they keep it up.
     
  6. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    Items like these will only work if they are only allowed to be used in feluccia. People will farm points and go back to tram. Also these items will be extremely easy to get. Would you waste many many many hours trying to get artifacts or just join factions, farm points, and get a jacked out arti in 1/20th of the time.

    It's way to much additions that don't really do anything for the faction system itself. This will not help factions, this will only put more frustration to people who want to participate in factions. People will be joining factions and not participating, they still haven't added any reasons to actually fight for the towns on a constant basis and that is the BIGGEST problem. If you give a reason to fight for the towns people will have to participate in the actual faction fighting.
     
  7. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    This topic is not about the changes themselves, it is about the manner in which they have gone about announcing them. In my opinion this "teaser" has potentially caused damage to a possible Faction revival by taking away excitement from when we learn about all the changes. While there was a period of excitement when first reading about it, you are then left wondering what else there is going to be and confusion (plus possible hatred, which we've already seen in several topics) about why certain things are being done. They also put people in the predicament of not being able to show support for the revealed changes because you don't want to have it misplaced if a curve ball is thrown later with other additions.
     
  8. Itari

    Itari Journeyman
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    Who cares how they did it. Get over yourself EA screws things up more than any other company...If you really love factions then you shouldn't be pancakes. This will bring people into factions. We have a group of about 10 people that just joined factions tonight because of this.
    Also, how would you be able to get the artifact and go back to trammel...when they clearly state that you would have to acquire a certain rank in order to use the items:

    Available only to certain ranks; if you lose your faction rank you will no longer be able to equip an item of that rank.

    Maybe you were just to caught up in ranting about the "presentation".
     
  9. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    You guys won't even be able to wear the items.

    ALL YOUR KILL POINTS ARE BELONGING TO 2.0

    Cardell: Are you coming back to UO anytime soon?
     
  10. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    I am going on the assumption that these arties are like horses. You can't just join up and get your points and get a horse ... you have to be in the faction that controls at least one town. And then, after a while, your arties break and you have to control a town *again* to get the arties. Sounds like its not quite so easy AND a reason to fight for the towns, yes?
     
  11. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    That's not how I interpretted it. I read it as you buy them with silver. Now that you mention it - it will probably be somewhat similar to faction horse vendors.

    You will probably have to place a vendor to sell the items (for that faction exclusively) and purchase them at that time.

    It would have been kind of cool if they were faction recipies you had to get from killing faction creatures, and your faction mules could craft them (with the required ingredients, i.e silver). The same concept of owning a town would apply.

    All speculation at this point anyways... our input doesn't really matter. Whatever the 1% of the player base that posts on Uhall wants will win.
     
  12. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    I believe these improvements to Factions are a direct result of the Focus Group that was started several months ago.

    As far as 2.0 owning all the points on Great Lake, I doubt that, if people truly want points and can't get them during raiding or defending, they will get them by farming their characters in opposing factions.
     
  13. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    ARE YOU SURE????
     
  14. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    But up to rank 6 or so you will never lose your rank. So you could get some points, achieve rank 6 and then enjoy the items forever.
     
  15. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Until they break (because they are not powderable, and you have to BUY the recharge things, and you can only use the recharge things so many times), then you are back in the place where you have to be in the faction that controls at least one town, to put out a vendor, to buy your items and recharges ... which makes it in your best interest to make sure you faction has silver, and to make sure you faction has at least one town.

    I bet in the beginning people will try the "easy" ways, then will realize there is real work involved and either learn to love it or leave it.
     
  16. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    Honestly, this winter looks like a lot of snowboarding. We'll see though. As much as I am sick of this game I just don't see myself not dipping my feet into these changes.. Sadly. Whether I participate or not or how much.. I really don't know.
     
  17. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    Yes, I am sure, people will get their points no way or the other. Check out the some of the names listed on the bottom portion of this list :) http://town.uo.com/factions/shadow.html
     
  18. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    lol. I see my name!
     
  19. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    Of course you do Anthius.........good to see you back posting on the boards again!
     
  20. Sir Kenga

    Sir Kenga Guest

    With current system if u lose too much points it make sense to just re-enter faction and have instant 6 rank with zero points and probably have access to most new arties like faction crimson etc.
     
  21. Rix/\

    Rix/\ Guest

    And what they've presented so far has got my interest back into UO and factions.

    You guys are assuming the current rank system won't be different. Won't know till they bring it to test shard. I'm not gonna judge anything about it till I've tried it out. Factions has been dead for years since around 2004 only time I seen anyone having anything to do with factions was so they could have use of the reg vendors. I will admit past 2 yrs I haven't played much maybe total of 6 months off and on. And I've seen a slight growth of interest as of late. Now with factions getting attention from devs I'm excited to see what they bring no matter what it is something needs to change.
     
  22. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    110% correct. They need to fix the rank system as well as the decay. When you look at the decay sometimes, since the populations of factioneers on each shard is so low, you have more points decay than actually exchanged between players pvping.
     
  23. HaTeSpHeRe

    HaTeSpHeRe Guest

    Ok i have a few things to say on this cause really this should be a hot topic. If anything these changes will just make the game worse. As it is with this new mage weapon template its impossible to kill mages, but you give them 3 MR on an orny, and now you have most of them running around with 6 MR between ring and brace. Ya ok, come on now. THe whole point is to have a negative to a temp. Ok, Ok, Sorry tat was my little mage rant. Now people keep talking about trammies going back and forth to and not actually play factions. Well correct me if I am wrong, but if I was commanding lord and that happening in my faction, I would just change the tithe rate too 100% faction. THat way they cant get the silver to buy these new items. And on a positive note, if they leave your faction to go to another faction to get the silver, that leaves tons of defenseless newbs for my faction to collect points. But hey thats just me. Any thoughts?

    Also with all these new people comming for the new arties, my question is will Anthius break the 250 points mark. ROFL go get em big guy.

    :danceb::danceb:
     
  24. Irish Rage

    Irish Rage Guest

    Well I agree releasing tid bits instead of the complete info probably wasn't the best approach. Although given the Sims online mentality of EA I'm not suprised.

    Honestly if these are the "major" changes I'm really dissapointed. What attracted me to UO pvp and factions in general was a level playing field where skill mattered more then gear. This stuff just adds more to unlevel that playing field. Again I'm not really suprised though given most people who still play UO are item junkies and not really of the pure skill pvp mentality.

    I will reserve final judgement though until the full details are released. I was really hoping for more along the lines of new/re-vamped strong holds, some kind of seige items, etc.
     
  25. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    In 10 minutes I farmed 2k silver. That was with out trying hard. Now, yes the CL can raise tithe rates, but that is just another way pvpers are forced into the role of the 'griefing jerks'. First they took the orange vs orange fighting out, and left fel to red vs blue (which is PKing and is griefing). And now the CL has to play tyrant to prevent people who are mainly in trammel (trying to be nice) to not front run or mooch off the system. So.. okay, the CL raises tithe rate, everyone hates him (or her) and goes to another faction (only 3 days to leave). Since there isn't many ppl in their new faction they change the tithing to all to the player, farm for a day, get 60k (easily in a day), leave factions, 3 days later they are back in the front runners faction again and buy the items, pop back into tram and don't look at the factions until they run out of silver and cannot go back into fel to really quickly buy an item and peace out again. With that being said, there are only so many GOOD silver farming spots, but there are several that are decent. So there is no way you could really just camp all the spots and fight off ppl who try and farm silver. Definitely not since you can 2 shot deamons, wisps, and silver serpents.

    And if the faction population gets high enough I would probably get 250 easily. I had 190 points between my 3 main characters before I went to Minax. Either way Torem will probably have more than me, like usual. :)
     
  26. Nonel

    Nonel Sage
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    The devs themselves, after AoS and artifacts were released, admitted that releasing more and more powerful items was NOT the answer, and only served to hinder this game more.

    So SE came, and they added more. ML came, more. SA isn't even out yet and they're adding...well...more.

    Yeah, right on track.
     
  27. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    I am not at all impressed with these additions. In fact, I believe it will only serve to create more imbalance in PvP. Since I play Siege, we have enough of that already.
     
  28. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Raining more stuff on our heads does nothing to get me excited. There are many other ways take have been sugested to make factions more fun for everyone.

    I guess this will pump up the warrior aspect... That is about it. They will join a faction and that will be the last we see of them.
     
  29. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    Absolutely. There is way to many ways the Devs could have promoted pvp and the factions other than throwing out more jacked out items. It's just sad to see how everything is turning into item based games like wow. Every couple of months the devs are going to just add more uber weapons. While I think adding the new items could have been a good incentive I didn't want it to be the only incentive and it appears for the most part it is the only incentive they are giving to pvpers to join the factions, too bad its going to be exploited by the trammies and inevitably probably a bad thing for the factions.
     
  30. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Cardell - Agreed!

    IMO, the incentives should not be item based, but something that will make controlling the towns more appealing. I gave some suggestions in a UHall thread several days ago, that may or may not be viable, but I'll re-post them just to give the general idea... [Keep in mind factions on Siege is a little different than other shards].

    Possible incentives...

    -Reduced stat-loss if your guild is in control of the towns [based on the number of towns your faction controls] Maybe reduce it by 1-8 minutes?
    -Control of regular town guards, including regular non-faction guards [again, based on the number of towns your faction controls]
    -The ability to have your own faction guards kill or ignore opposing faction players [currently broken.. or it was]
    -Temporary stat buffs that can be purchased with silver or life force points [length of the bonus based on number of towns your faction controls 1-8 minutes]
    -The ability to use faction guards around your own base if your faction controls the towns [all bases - number of guards based on the number of towns you own. 10 guards per town your faction controls]



    Those were just a few some of my guildmates have discussed over the past year or so. It'd be nice if we could command guards to "sell only to Minax Faction" to prevent other factions and non-faction players of taking advantage of our good fortune! :lick:

    None of my suggestions are overpowering, yet they are enough to keep people interested. Heck... 8 minutes off a 20 minute stat loss is enough for me to make sure my faction is always fighting for control of the towns! :)
     
  31. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    Well the Vendors should have been changed to only sell to the faction (that own and placed the vendors) a long time ago. They also need to do more things like add different vendors (necro regs for christ sake).
     
  32. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Definitely agree. :thumbsup:
     
  33. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    Yes, Yes, Yes!
     
  34. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    Very well put. I hate the fact that this game keeps getting more item based every publish.
     
  35. Gwendar-SP

    Gwendar-SP Guest

    It sure doesn't seem like a move to balance PVP.

    As for faction vendors only selling to the faction that controls them - do your guild members only get things like potions, regs, and apples from fellow faction members and do folks really want to have to shop on their faction characters?
     
  36. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    I make everything for myself. (Armor, Food, Weapons, Pots) At least I have the ability to. It's not so much I prefer to have to buy things on my faction character as much as it is I would rather non faction participants not mooch off faction players work. It is hard work getting towns when the competition is around.

    So I would prefer that I would have to use my faction player to buy off faction vendors so trammies can't exploit my hard work..
     
  37. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    I agree completely with Kat. I also play on Siege. We still have a large population of people who like to pvm on Siege. All these new items do is make it easier for factioners to kill the pvm'ers. More uber items is not the answer to faction problems.

    It's bad enough that factioners can use Monster Ignore to their advantage to kill pvm'ers. Now you are going to give them super items to help them out in killing crafters and pvm'ers. You might attract a few more people into factions this way, but you are going to permantently lose several pvm'ers when they realize they have no chance to defend themselves anymore.

    Yes, I know I could just go to a Trammel shard if I want to pvm without risk. But I like the risk. I like being raided and I like the risk of it. I like the fights that result from it. However, these new items are going to make it near impossible to defend yourself.
     
  38. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    I wouldn't go that far.
     
  39. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
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    Why is it that in order to attract people to Factions we need to entice them with these nasty super enhanced artifacts??

    I play on Siege myself and almost cringe at the thought of what havoc these wonderful factions rewards will do to an already unbalanced pvp scene (thank your Greater Dragon's)

    I do appreciate the fact that developers are looking at the faction scene that is in great demand for attention. Some very nice idea's were presented earlier in this thread regarding rewards for controlling towns (less stat loss, different vendors)

    If eye candy is required make it less of an pvp imbalance and more of a recognition of achievement like a new faction only mount, faction titles or even revolving statues of commanders of controlling factions placed in cities.
     
  40. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    Honestly, I just don't think the pvp community is represented among the devs.... like none of them are pvpers.. and if they are, they are probably the archer tamers.. lol.. or stealth tamers. Or one of the templates that ruins pvp.
     
  41. Nonel

    Nonel Sage
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    While I'd like to see more incentive for controlling towns, I'd have to be against anything that would make it easier for one faction to keep a stranglehold on all eight towns. 12 minute stat and 80 guards would allow that to happen, even if the controlling faction were inferior.
     
  42. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Numbers can be tweaked and other ideas could work too... I just submitted some starting suggestions. :)
     
  43. Irish Rage

    Irish Rage Guest

    You know after thinking about this a little more I'm of the thought that these changes are just plain horrible.

    What they should do is make faction craftable armor for all classes so you don't need to be an item farming junky to simply pvp and participate. Combine this with limiting item insurance on faction chars to maybe 2 items and boom you have a balanced and fun pvp system that anyone can participate in. Heck it even makes factions crafters useful again! What a concept.

    Instead we get more crappy re-hued uber artifacts. I mean honestly what is wrong with simple good ole fun pvp.
     
  44. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    The problem with 'good ole fun pvp' is the devs are tamers and they want the insta kill from there way over powered super dragons. They also want to phase out feluccia so they make it so all pvp is nothing but dismount, super dragons, disarm and running shot. Eventually everyone in fel will get frustrated and just leave the game, so the devs can hold hands with everyone in trammel and see who can kill Lady Mel faster.
     
  45. :hahaha:

    U know whats weird is that its probably true that the devs are tamers, cos theres no other reason to bring they dragons into the game, and i can see all the devs huggin at lady mel, laughin at empty fell and cackling madly chantin some weird lyrics
     
  46. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    This, I can get on board with!! :thumbsup:

    Unfortunately, I don't know how to stop these utterly horrific additions that are headed our way. They may be okay for regular shards [I wouldn't know, really], but these changes will throw Siege outta whack! :cursing:
     
  47. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    I have very little to say here, lest I go off on a rant about things. I would only caution the developers to take a moment and LISTEN to these people. So many thousands of players have left because every publish kills more and more of why many of us started playing UO to begin with. I have active accounts still, but have not actually played in well over a year, aside from the occasional day or week of reminiscing here and there.

    It's really simple. Give the populace incentives that ARE NOT ITEM BASED.

    I'll stop there before the full-fledged Masumatek-worthy rant ensues.

    I said good day!
     
  48. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    Yeah, I said this a thousand times to the folks in my guild. I really wish i was there, to hear the devs actually explain the logic and reason to implement greater dragons. As far as I'm concerned taming was way over powered before they put in Hiryus, Rune Beetles, and Cu Sidhes...(with all the archer/tamer dismounting 'all kill' garbage going on) but greater dragons? Did they really think Tamers were getting the short end of the stick?

    I just don't get it. Not only have all those super pets butchered pvp but they made people quit because its literally impossible to get away from a beetle/mare combo when you have been dismounted (35 - 55 dmg) and then get spell blocked so bad you can't even cast small heal and while you are trying to run they are spamming running shot (which is also way over powered). Then they make a bigger, stronger, harder to kill, fire breathing pet.

    I'm sorry I go over this a million times in my head and the only thing I can think of is the devs are a bunch of trammies that want to be able to solo everything. It's lame,,, it's sad,,, and the worst part is I really don't think they recognize that.
     
  49. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    Simple logic for Super Dragons, take out the tamers duh! Discord Dan of Great Lakes, does a wonderful job at discording the dragons, that takes them right out of the fight and what a pain in the arse it is when your pet is discorded. Plus with all the uber fast people in game, most can outrun the dragons on foot.

    I get so tired of people yapping about tamers in factions and stealth archers. It would be awful boring with just mages in factions, hum casting on a dead run, hitting your target off screen and I am not just talking about explosions either, oh yea my favorite evil omen para with efields for the win!
     
  50. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

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    If bards were enhanced so they had more PVP capabilities, then more players would bring them on to the battlefield. I don't understand why Discordance can't be made to work on players. Why couldn't they make target peacemake a debuff for damage. Perhaps even make it so provocation on a creature/summon can turn it on another player.

    The problem is besides Discordance there is zero reason to bring a bard into battle. So there is no alternative path to countering a Greater Dragon than just taking it out. They could even make target Peacemaking a double-prong attack. Besides just the pacfism ability which gets broken easily, their could be a 25-50% damage debuff for 30 seconds on the target pet. That way it isn't useless to do.