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Large Guild Raids (and Ruins) Player-Run RP Event

Discussion in 'UHall' started by AmanitaMuscaria, Sep 1, 2008.

  1. A rather large, reputable guild attacked (and ruined) a player-run, role playing event on Saturday night on the Atlantic shard. This event had been planned for weeks in advance and most active community members were aware of the event. The response provided from a council member of the guild was:

    "...We were not told about it. The house was public. You could walk right inside and kill anyone. There was so many things the people organizing the tournament could have done to prevent this."

    The person then goes on to state that the guild should have been "made aware" of the situation and that the event organizers should have sought the prior approval of the guild in advance.

    This was a hard-blow dealt to the dedicated role-players of Atlantic and a sad day for the game in general. What ideas can we think of for EA to foster a more friendly environment for role-players? Perhaps RP only shards?

    Let's use this tragic event to open up a discussion for what can be done to allow for the role-playing niche within UO.
     
  2. hold the event in tram next time?

    ~Blade
     
  3. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Welcome to to why Felucca is basically abandoned.

    Blade is right, run the event in Tram if possible.
     
  4. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
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    and if it's a dueling arena or some such, fortify the building and *expect* to be raided
     
  5. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    You cannot be raided or interupted ther but for your adventure part you can always do that part in Fel.

    Organize it , Start it, Meet Up, End it in

    T R A M

    Stop trying to bash the unnammed guild who you obviously have an issue with

    I personally dont like them much weither but your actions are pathetic.

    :loser:
     
  6. These are two very valid points. But the event called for some elements of the Fel environment and landscape, as it was a PvP-centered event.

    I just wish there had been a better system in place, as a large horde of marauding Player Killers put an end to the event before it could even start.

    I agree that Tram is more conducive to the Role-Playing crowd, but it's unfortunate that Fel has denigrated into such a cesspool of drobbing and trash-talking.
     
  7. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
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    you can do events such as that in Trammel, also..... guild wars.... but you would need people committed enough to holding a good event to do it, since not everyone in a Tram guild might particularly enjoy going to Brit or Luna bank and being a target for an opposing guild
     
  8. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    When we plan event on Seige you have factor in that you are going to get raided. Poor house design will lead to masive death. One of the funniest event happen when one person killed 40+ peoople at a wedding.
     
  9. Kayhynn

    Kayhynn Certifiable
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    I will strongly disagree with sentiments like these.

    Great Lakes used to have a strong, rich roleplay community with a ton of blessed houses in Fel, including Red Devil's Auction House, one of the first Auction houses in UO. Kazola's Tavern. The Temple of Mondain. Yet we cannot use these houses without keeping them public because "theya re blessed public houses". Reds take advantage of this all the time. If you friend the doors, you get in trouble with GMs and threatened to have the whole house deleted from under you if you do it again.

    These blessed houses are beautiful and unique but have fallen into disuse because of how Fel Guilds knowingly and intentionally disrupt events because they can.

    This whole permission from Fel guilds is silly. So you get permission. That doesn't stop them from changing their minds.
     
  10. I've had dueling arenas held in fel with my guild and a few others... the house was public but the doors were for friends only... reds can run around all they want and those who didnt want to fight them stayed inside.... ended up we all decided to go after them anyway. ended up a great night.

    but to solve issues with crashers and griefers is... as others have said play in Tram... or deal with the problem and adapt.qI personally like playing in fel..
     
  11. Exactly my point. The whole thought of having to "seek the permission" of large guilds on a shard is just absurd! We need a better system in place for Fel-based RPers.
     
  12. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
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    the 'system' would be as Spree said, plan and protect.... you choose to travel in Felucca which means you choose to play by that ruleset

    is it annoying that there are snerts? yes, it is, but it comes with the territory, and you deal with it
     


  13. Tee hee .. would have been more entertaining then my real wedding !!!
     
  14. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    He is quoting me by the way. Think about it.
     
  15. MolaRom

    MolaRom Visitor

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    You just keep pushing the limits of the UO community, don't you? When will you have your fill, Sir?
     
  16. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    OSI owned blessed public houses in Felucca should be protected by GM's.

    End of story.

    As usual EA drops the ball. WRR can't run an event in Trammel and the GM's can't even protect the sanctity of an old player run town in Felucca.

    COMPLETE DISASTER FROM THE CS TEAM AS USUAL
     
  17. Thanks for posting, JC. As a respected member on the UO community, what are your thoughts on this issue? What can be done to mitigate such outcomes in the future?

    Your thoughts are appreciated and valued.
     
  18. Lord_Deimos

    Lord_Deimos Guest


    If you were on chessy...I would of killed you even if you DID let us know ahead of time =\

    Really should take precautions....
     
  19. MolaRom

    MolaRom Visitor

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    Yeah, this is exactly what happened. The biggest bully (guild) on Atlantic came in and asserted itself nicely by running over a group of role players. I hope the insurance money was worth it...
     
  20. Crow

    Crow Guest

    Yeah it sucks things like this happen, but at the same time you have to give a nod to the game that we have the freedom to do things like this, haha

    Some people and guilds seem to exist to grief others. So you have to expect things like this are going to happen.

    I've been apart of fel events that have went well in public houses, and ones that were ruined.

    Don't expect help from gm's. And they probably wont help in this case either, haha...

    Just set house to private, don't do things on first floor, or have stairs from it, and have people on standby with the boot...the griefer people eventually get bored and go back to beating up old ladies...or whatever they do.
     
  21. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    I am with you 100% pal.

    Fel is a complete cesspool.

    Just last month me and a few of my girlfriends spent days planning a huge bake sale next to the gate in Bucs Den & were so pissed when a group of reds came through and attacked us and broke our cookies.

    I dont want to mention any names but I think they were part of a 'prominent' guild on Atlantic. But this is in no way a smear or personal attack on that guild as that would violate TOS and that is most certainly not what this post is about!

    It was terribly wrong and IMO a huge issue in the game for many years now. I just wish there was something we could have done to prevent the senseless tragedy. Maybe somewhere else we could have gone?

    I hope my utter politeness is getting through here & helping to make my case against Felucca and the big bad guild.

    Peace
     
  22. Very true. I suppose it should have been expected. We will be better prepared next time.
     
  23. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    It is to be expected, but if you holding an event at an OSI owned house that is public the GM's should be there to assist.
     
  24. Teeshy

    Teeshy Guest

    Goldberg you made me choke on my sammich. Sesame seeds are bad =P
     
  25. Anjeel

    Anjeel Guest


    You were RPing in fel which means you are RPing in dangerous lands. I did so for 5 years. You knew the risks. I would have raided you also. There are several things you could have done to prevent it. Privatizing the house, asking the raiding guild's permission :) (Its obvious they have a good fel lockdown), fighting back? That is not a blow to RPers. RPers can handle it, thats what RP is about. Fel has risks and you should know that by now.

    In short... pvp happened in fel... no need to whine... RPers should not let it phase them.
     
  26. Anjeel

    Anjeel Guest

    How is a guild raiding a pvp centric rp event IN fel a denigration of society. They were PvPing lol. As it was, if you were doing a pvp event, you should be ready to, I don't know, pvp?
     
  27. Anjeel

    Anjeel Guest

    Perhaps pay them then.
     
  28. ravenwaves

    ravenwaves Guest

    Yeah, that friendly environment you want fostered for role players? It's tram. Or Malas. Or Ilsh. Or Tokuno.

    Are you not aware that there are so few people in fel en masse these days that a gathering of blue tags = a red invitation?

    If you want some immunity in the future, you're going to have to make a deal with this guild or one of it's competitors to keep away the riff raff next time.
     
  29. Masuri

    Masuri Seasoned Veteran
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    Boggle, it's always been a cesspool of this filth. So has Trammel, for that matter, Trammies just display it differently because they're forced to.

    You run an event in Fel, you should plan for, prepare for, the worst. If you're not hiring guards to stop murderers or holding it inside of a private house, you're just a disaster waiting to happen.

    Doesn't excuse their behavior at all, but you bear some responsibility in not anticipating it, especially given that these antics aren't at all uncommon in the last eleven years of this game, and you'll be hard-pressed to get much sympathy.
     
  30. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - This thread is quite silly.

    To have been playing UO & to have lived in Felucca & to know that "most... were aware of the event" & to have expected none but a peaceful gathering & then to be upset about the inevitable enough to call it a "hard-blow dealt" and...
    Oh my.

    Sorry that the predictable happened.

    Anyone who has played, even if for a short time knows:
    Felucca is non-con land, even if just wanting to have a RP event.

    Better luck with the next event.
     
  31. Paidric

    Paidric Guest

    Back in the old days, friendly PvP guilds used to "guard" RP places, towns and events against Reds. I think that was the good solution as it allowed interactions between different types of players and made the community stronger and richer.

    Next time try to recruit some PvP guilds to help you out and protect you from the reds who WILL show up. Get realistic, Felucca is a dead place, if for once there is something happening, how could they refrain?

    I think that's the point of Felucca, you can regulate behaviors with your own fists. Sometimes you'll bite the dirt, sometimes you'll win. That's how it is.
    Good luck for the event next time!
     
  32. Cyrah

    Cyrah Lore Keeper
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    I wish you two would just get a room.
     
  33. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    Erm, just a note here...

    No one from the actual Atlantic RP community has posted in this thread yet I believe, and I don't believe the OP is even in the Atlantic RP community, so I'm confused as to why this issue was brought to the Uhall by someone not affiliated with either the Atlantic RP community or the raiding guild.

    That being said, the general feelings of the community were of annoyance, especially due to the fact that there has always been an "unspoken" rule not to interrupt player events on Atlantic, and the RP and non RP community have had many fel events without being interrupted in the past. Everyone knows that it is Fel however, and the anger comes more from breaking that unspoken rule, rather than expecting Fel to be safe, which everyone knows, is not.

    As for things now, it's water under the bridge for most roleplayers, it's not the first time we've had an event interrupted, which happens just as often in trammel, especially in non-player housing areas, nor did the situation call for being cross posted to several forums by individuals who are not even involved in either side of the situation. If we feel the need to post about a situation we will, however this was not one of the situations.

    In short, it's fel, fel stuff happens, it can be annoying sometimes, but that's life.
     
  34. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Exactly. We on SIege do this all the time and we hold events all the time.

    My house has been public for 4+years on Siege... and there is no Tram.
     
  35. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    A simple dueling system would have prevented everything without causeing much hastle and requiring 50+ people to get in a vent channel and workout warring friending and accessing in fel. and yeah. id say we get greifed in tram 1000 times more often. nowhere is safe MWUAHAHA!:gun::sad3:
     
  36. Evilminion

    Evilminion Guest

    I'm afraid I have to agree with the notion that if you play in Fel, you have to expect what Fel will throw at you. I'd never set foot over there and expect to be left alone; that's like walking into the lion cage with a big steak tucked into your belt and expecting to have a quiet tea party with Mr. Steaky.

    It also seems to me that announcing to the lions in advance that you're planning to pay a visit to their den is going to accomplish nothing more than making certain they remember to bring enough forks.

    Just my two cents' worth, of course, but at least I'm not going to have to pay insurance on those two cents, 'cause they're staying in Tram. :D
     
  37. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
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    I use to argue long ago that guilds should only have a maximum number of members at a time, let's say 50 or so, this would prevent zerging of large guilds, there would be more guild fights, and one guild would never be able to "rule the land."

    Of course, to do this, they would need to do a wipe of all the guilds..
     
  38. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    And now, lessons learned:

    1. When holding an event, PLAN on being attacked/raided.

    2. Make the raid a part of the event, no matter what the event is. Back when I had a tavern in Felucca, we held multiple events at the same time. For example, we would have a story night and a defend story night event side by side.

    3. Secure your event house against exploits like nature's furies. If you don't know how to do this, ask anyone on Siege.

    4. Don't go complaining when everyone gets dead. Everyone there knew the risks.

    5. Make their interference a part of your role play. Back when I was part of a pre-Trammel player town, we spent more time role playing with PvP guilds than with RP guilds, and you know what? It was fun and we made a lot of allies in the process.

    On a side note, I've learned over the years that asking permission often ends in betrayal, while asking for help rarely does. I don't know the parties involved here, so I can't say that it's the case. But it is a point of caution.

    Events have been disturbed in UO for 11 years now (more if you include beta time). The people who have been holding the events for so long SHOULD have learned how to avoid some of those problems by now.

    Sad day for UO? I think not. This is nothing new, and it will continue.
     
  39. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
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    This should be your blue print for next time.

    :scholar:
     
  40. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Lore Keeper
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  41. Nexus

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    Or the Red Guilds could wake up and realize that blessed area usually are in Player towns....Player Towns that encourage RP are good for Fel...Good for Fel = more people in Fel resulting in more targets outside these areas. What it comes down to is a lack of sense of community in the Red Zerg guilds who really don't care about anyone or anything beyond racking up Counts, and raiding spawns to put a choke hold on a shards economy and get tons of gold in the process. I could care less about them raiding spawns to be honest but....but...they should at least have the decency to step back and say...Hey this is a big event for the shards community lets not be complete jerks and screw it up for people....Besides which....

    Rules of Conduct: 24) You will not do anything else that interferes with the ability of other Ultima Online users to enjoy playing the game in accordance with its rules, or that increases the expense or difficulty of Electronic Arts in maintaining the Ultima Online Service for the enjoyment of all its users.

    It doesn't say Trammel or Fel on there...yeah Fel is the PvP facet, but purposely disrupting a player hosted event goes a bit beyond just PvP..if it had been a EM event of old all the Reds that raided would have found themselves quite cozy in a jail cell...1 Page increase the difficulty of EA to maintain the game as it means someone has to work...
     
  42. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
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    I disagree...

    One of the rules of Felucca is that you consent to almost everything. You agree to this the moment you step through the gate.

    :scholar:
     
  43. Fox (Europa)

    Fox (Europa) Guest

    What a stupid post. You are playing in an area of UO purposely designed to be lawless. Get used to it or "Tram>>>>>".
     
  44. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    This is the kind of thing which can be prevented and I'm surprised the raiders even got beyond the doorstep... Are the RPers new to running events in Fel, because I'm surprised anyone relies on guilds refraining from anything nowadays. I have a good relationship with the PvPers who've visited my town, but I still maintain backup plans and ICQ no's just in case.

    First rule of RPing in Fel is to have ban macros, ensure several of you can ban from the building you're in, and if everyone is inside, set the doors to friend only so you can ban before they have a chance to swarm in. The most that those raiders should have accomplished was making a grumbling mess outside the doors, not what sounds like a complete disruption.

    I'd suggest making sure the RPers in question stitch up these problems and get very savvy with banning and the like, as these raiders may well decide to keep returning now they've had an effect. "Blap the RPers" can become a nightly hobby for some guilds, so the sooner it's nipped in the bud the better.

    Be wary of giving some of these guys a fight too, some raiders I found would take defeat and never return, while others want the fight and will always be on the doorstep if they get one. Make sure that when you shout "get inside!" everyone does it, and if someone stays outside he/she should be left to face the consequences alone. Otherwise you get dribs and drabs of folks trying to fight which is useless, folks getting angry because they got killed and the leaders will be angry because the raiders are now camped outside and sure they'll get their fight. The quickest way to teach folks to stay inside is to be harsh if they try being a hero. If you decide to fight, everyone must work together and it's a good idea to check nobody has valuables before they go out. The times I had whines over the odd "I lost my vanq kat!" lol.

    As for the suggestions of moving to Tram, not only is that a rediculously impractical solution, it's also the best way to let a griefer win. Tram isn't the land of milk and honey either, I've seen a few Europan guilds make the move then find they still went under. Moving doesn't solve problems, it just creates new ones.

    Wenchy
     
  45. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Not supporting the raiding guild in this, however, I agree completely with your statement. Attacking other players is a part of fel and its open pvp ruleset. Anyone that goes there accepts that fact when they go.

    The main flaw I have seen from this specific situation is the inability to make a blessed house private. That makes no sense, if its true. Regardless of a buildings bless status, the owner should have the right to do what they want with the house. Unto and including making it private, changing doors to friend only access and demolishing the house. While I think the last action would be wrong since a blessed house obviously is a part of a specific shards history, I still support the owner's right to do it.

    A better way to manage blessed buildings would be to have the owner agree (agree before blessing occurs of course. No one should be forced to allow their home to become blessed) that should anything happen that would cause them to either stop playing UO or get rid of the house, the house would then revert to being OSI owned. Or Mythic owned or EA owned. You get the idea.

    This would allow the owner to do what he wanted with the house while still ensuring that its place in the history of the shard would be secured.
     
  46. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    I agree with most of what you said, with the exception of the above. In my mind, moving to Trammel means that the griefer loses. With no one in Fel to grief, the griefer will enventually grow bored and go away. Hopefully to another game.
     
  47. Nexus

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    The blessed part is the whole focus here, that's why I said what I did. The owner doesn't have the option of making the building private. Used to be on Chessy you could walk around PaxLair all day long with no issue for the most part it was declared neutral ground, no PKing, no Griefing, no Stealing..since it is one of the if not the most blessed player town left in UO and a focal point of player to player interaction. It was just how things were...Heck I even still honor that truce there, because of it.

    Big issue today though is over half the PvP community are nothing but a bunch of spoiled brats that like to talk trash and stir up trouble. Interrupting an event in an area that can't be designated Private, for the sole purpose of being a jerk and messing it up far outstrips consensual PvP it's Griefing pure and simple. I hear all the PvPers whine nobody comes to Fel, well here's the reasoning behind it. They Need to Grow up and show a little class.
     
  48. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Well letting someone drive you out of your home, meaning you spend a stack on buying new property, probably lose some guild members and so forth, it depends on your take on things I guess. I'd say the RPers lose if all that happens to them, when all they had issues with were some PKs. But then I know of enough who failed badly when they moved and the griefers not only drove them out, but started the events which killed their guilds. Griefers aren't restricted to Fel either, there are plenty of ways they can interfere with events in Tram, and GMs aren't a 100% reliable way of policing an event.

    But in all honesty, the only way a RP town will survive in Fel is to make good links with the PvP community so they not only have defenders, but there is something of value to those PvPers which they won't destroy. If it becomes "them and us" you may as well give up.

    Wenchy
     
  49. Vyrquenox

    Vyrquenox Guest

    someone might tell you a reasonable way, but (before I read this whole thread) I felt like gambing someone has already started explaining why you are at fault somehow and then it has digressed somewhat into an uglier version of what you hoped for. Cheers! I hope I lose this bet. Goes and reads..
     
  50. Vyrquenox

    Vyrquenox Guest

    And there it IS! thank you I win the bet. You just said 'one of the funniest event happen[ed] when one person killed 40+ people at a wedding'. (also a bit of spelling correction there because as a Freudian slip you combined humans and excrement into one fantastic new word!

    Do you actually think about what you say before you post it? It was the funniest thing to when someone's wedding was transformed into a massacre. The power of positive thinking! Why was it transformed into a massacre? Think in context people all he was asking for was the old question to be answered, 'why do you punk kids have it in your heads you will improve anybody or anything by tearing down their block towers?' You won't improve yourself that's for sure. And his most real feeling and concern was 'why do the efforts of people to make something good and fun infuriate you so much you feel the need to honor it with destruction and the misery of others?"

    to original poster, the answer to that question is not what you'd hope for.

    Because they want to know they can.

    oh for you who might actually think for a second that because you can do it makes it okay, this is what jeffrey dahmer said when asked why he did what he did...

    "Because I wanted to see If I could."

    as for who I used to explain this with the quote, good luck on trying to sham off that snafu on me or anyone else. When I go and post about how I chuckled mightily at that day that those happy kittens were run over by a bulldozer cuz they were in the road' then you can try to get at me. I am not quite that bad with words.