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Let's have a little discussion about...Luck

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Widow Maker, Nov 3, 2009.

  1. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Ya know..it was very sweet of the Dev's to release another little prize with luck. It seems that we get about 1 or 2 items a year that lets us increase the luck on our hopeful suits. That is a very nice thing guys..the populace enjoys the "fetch me" scenarios you folks think up in a couple minutes of meeting time.

    Now, there is nothing wrong with that except for one small item.....

    Luck has been broken for several years. Wearing a luck suit does absolutely nothing and has done nothing for quite a long time. We all know it but still have the hope of "Say it ain't so Joe" syndrome abiding in all of us.

    My friend and I can do Stygian Dragon very easily and it drops some decent loot, based upon the relics we get when we unravel it all down. Wonderful. That, of course, is killing it without luck at all. 0...zilch..not 1 little point of luck. We usually average 8-10 relics per load.

    Now, I decide that I wanted to try it out with a luck suit, so I spend a good deal of time...and a TON of POF and other supplies making a sweet little max luck suit for the boy. How proud I was knowing that after hitting up a luck statue and sporting a very nice mana leech 160 luck composite bow that I would be downing this critter with around 3.7K luck if I got him down in perfection.

    So off we go and everything goes according to plan. Slight problem though....

    The loot completely SUCKED!!! It's quality was FAR inferior to killing it with no luck at all. This held true through 5 rounds, after which the luck suit found itself back in a chest..never to be used again until something happens to change our minds. We were getting 2-4 relics per load.

    Needless to say, it was a disappointing affirmation that this system is so completely borked that one could rightfully say that it simply does not exist at all.

    ** edited this little diatribe so that it did not get sent to SnR hell **

    Have a nice day and discuss :D
     
  2. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    I think draconi said before that the loot tables are messed up with regards to luck. I think. Something like that. Anyways, it was an acknowledgment that something is f'd up and needs fixing.

    And wow, 3700 luck! That's crazy. You should be getting nice loot out the wazoodle.
     
  3. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Luck should be removed from the game. Its one of the dumbest 'features' from AOS.

    Loot should be derived from what I killed not what I am wearing when I killed it.

    Luck is heavily towards tamers and nearly unattainable for some other templates.
     
  4. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    I think they had said originally that the luck over 1200 or 1600 would give less and less return, but it's been so long that I really can't remember the discussions.

    In any case, I notice the luck bumps on my chars, but I go from 0-238 luck to 800-1038 luck with the statue. And there is a definite increase in number of items and quality.

    However, I also don't do artifact grade spawns, so I have no idea if luck impacts those or not. I do know, however, that the luck bump is based on the RNG, with there being a percentage chance based on your luck to increase the number of loot items and then another roll to bump the loot quality.

    It is -possible- that they capped it at something for the percentage roll, or that there is something in the algorithm that is rolling over a high value to a lower value.

    I guess the only real way to test it would be to have a character with 0, 1000, 2000 and 3000 luck, have them do a peerless or some other spawn that may generate an artifact 10 times each. Then see what the average loot is for each level and compare.
     
  5. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Luck is now pathetically easy to Obtain on ANY Template

    Cheese to go with that?

    ANyhow now with imbuing making a full luck suit is a complete joke and also you can even tailor it to ANY template.

    It shouldn't be removed just plain fixed like the original poster stated.
     
  6. Grinchy

    Grinchy Guest

    Absolutely NOT SO! Did you bother to read his post at all?
    He obviously just stated that he MADE a max luck suit thru imbuing I would guess, and that he was using a 160 luck comp bow.... which means he was on an archer not a tamer at all.

    There is nothing "unattainable" to any character type in this game that is attainable by another, IF you are willing to work at it.
     
  7. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Re: Luck is now pathetically easy to Obtain on ANY Template

    Show me the total mods of your full luck suit that is a complete joke to acquire.
     
  8. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Let see the total mods on his suit. Yes, you can, in a group situation, probably get by with luck-gimp suits.

    Based on my experience, tamer/mage builds have the fewest suit mod dependencies.

    There are no "character types" in UO. Some templates cannot afford 10 - 12 property slots devoted to luck.

    It has nothing to do with work, it has to do with compromising the mods to the point that certain builds are no longer feasible.
     
  9. DarkVoid

    DarkVoid Guest

    You went 5 rounds with a max luck suit? That's hardly a statistically accurate sample by any stretch of the imagination. Try hunting them for a couple hours each day for a couple of months and tell us if your luck improves the loot in any way.

    While it's true Draconi says luck is broken, one should never base a sampling on anything less than at least 100 separate collections of items from the corpses of the same type of creature.

    Try getting yourself a statistically larger sample and see if the long-term effects of the luck suit kick in or not.
     
  10. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    When did the luck thing break?
    Other than that...

    You should maybe put the buddy that was with you into a luck suit too.

    I noticed that when I had considerably more luck on my suit than I do now, along with SoP, that anytime *I* killed something I got great loot.

    Anytime some griefer would come up and kill the beastie I was working on "because its a game" (as if that's an excuse for rotten behavior and poor manners) then the loot I would get was slightly worse.

    I noticed this one day killing stuff, trying to kill my section of beasties before someone else did. I would get 600gp loot on the beastie that I got more damage on, and seemingly better armor. On the ones that he got more damage on there was maybe 300gp.

    Same thing when I'm hunting (dungeon crawl?) with guildies.
    Go figure. And I can't think of any reason why that would happen except that my suit had (because I don't have good luck on my suit anymore) better luck.

    It's worth a try at least! :)
     
  11. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I think you need something like 4,000 luck for what should be a 100% boost, however, even if you had 100%, luck does not apply a boost to every single item in a corpse instance, so you are probably expecting too much from luck.

    Do a Google search for Luck to get a better idea of how luck works, although, as Draconi said awhile ago, you're right to think there could be broken parts in the code:
    luck site:http://www.uoherald.com/fof/
    (click here if you're lazy ;P)

    Also, expecting high returns from a boss or peerless, other than a gauntlet monster, is absurd given the rate of per kill. For returns you should hunt creatures you can farm.
     
  12. Drazasamus

    Drazasamus Guest

    i believe luck only gives a chance that more items are added to the loot, with each mob getting so many items of different levels of intensity, getting more items gives you more chances at getting higher level items, but also more chances at getting crap items. so having a luck suit would only get you more items. not make them better.
     
  13. Grinchy

    Grinchy Guest

    Incorrect.

     
  14. Grinchy

    Grinchy Guest

    That pretty much sums up your stupidity right there... perhaps you should experience more things with an open mind, instead of closing you mind and speaking out of your arse about something that you obviously know nothing about. Sure back in the day luck suits were very very very limited. However, with imbuing that is no longer so. I can make a full 70s max luck suit with 2 addtional max properties... E.G. LRC, LMC, MR, etc etc etc. I can tailor a luck suit to any template that I like with imbuing.
     
  15. Translation: It's working as intended.

    When will we fix it? Soon.
     
  16. Drawde2

    Drawde2 Guest

    I think that's because part of his loot was half the gold. If you wait a little bit, everything in his part of the loot that he didn't take drops into the corpse, when it becomes open to everyone.
     
  17. TheLetterQ

    TheLetterQ Journeyman
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    How do you get 3700 luck?

    Jester Cap is 150
    AoF is 200
    Sandles is 120
    Lucky Necklace is 200
    Ring/Brace are 200 total
    140 each for leg, arm. glove
    140 Robe
    160 for your bow.

    That's a total of 1590.

    Tack on 500 for statue?
    2090.

    Did I miss something?

    Also, the luck of the highest damager is used...areyou sure you dealt the majority ofthe damage to the monster?
     
  18. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    Sandals are 80 btw.

    And if your not an archer, a golden weapon w/ a golden shield will bring you over 160 for your weapon slot(s)
     
  19. TheLetterQ

    TheLetterQ Journeyman
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    That crazy fountain just wont give me a pair....so I wasn't sure how much tey were.

    Q
     
  20. Grinchy

    Grinchy Guest

    Luck:

    Conjurers Garb 140
    Mempo of Fortune 300
    Jester Hat of chuckles 150
    Novo Bleue Jewel set 400
    Armor of Fortune 200
    Arms 140
    Legs 140
    Gloves 140
    Sandals 80
    His bow 160

    Total suit luck 1850

    Luck statue 500

    Killing with it honored in perfection 1000

    So, 1850 + 500 + 1000 = 3350 effective luck

    He was just a tad off on his calculations, though he probably didnt sit down and add them all up like I did.

    And I know for a fact that he dealt he ONLY damage to the monster, the other guy there was simply a discorder and tossing Widow heals when he needed them.
     
  21. Grinchy

    Grinchy Guest

    He was talking about the Stygian Dragon, and he does farm them. That two man team can kill the Styggy in 15 minutes or less, with only Widow Maker doing the damage, the other guy is simply a support guy. So the rate and amount of kills is high.
     
  22. Tay M'real

    Tay M'real Guest

    bingo
     
  23. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I agree about luck being removed from the game.

    I don't agree about it being heavily towards tamers. Most people I know with tons of luck are infact, not tamers. Tamers just don't need to worry about making a suit with both decent resists and luck.
     
  24. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    Remove luck? Hush!
    Then the devs will never take a look at the luck/loot tables.

    I do like seeing slightly better loot when I rub the statue and/or honor the creatures.
    Would be nice if it factored in other ways too. Less chance to fingers slip on bandies, or less chance to get poisoned or cursed. Maybe less likely to trigger a trap in a corridor of traps. Less likely to be revealed if stealthing. Stuff like that. Similar to how D&D works.
     
  25. statman

    statman Visitor
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    If anyone is interested I conducted an extensive evaluation of luck a few years back. It was a public project but 3 or 4 of us collected most of the data used. The web site is here if anyone wants to take a look. UOMart. Some of the links may not work, but the figures should all load to show the luck results.


    Luck was broken then and it is still broken. The problem is related to the loot tables being outdated and unbalanced. The problem is also related to the RNG and the inefficient and outdated algorithm it uses. Not to mention the UO source code (both server and client side) has not been overhauled in 12 years! Imagine how many programmers have touched the code, how many redundant functions have been written to do th exact same task and how many of those are hooked to different skills/spells/actions in the game!

    Luck does not have to be complicated to provide the results desired, but the use of lookup tables that havent been maintained and n RNG that sucks results in the game feature sucking!
     
  26. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    Sounds exactly like my system at work. Patchwork upon patchwork. At least... at least, I have my programmer maintain it. Vicious cycle.
     
  27. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    You are nasty and insulting, get a grip.

    Show me that imbued luck suit. You have avoided provided an example of the easy to obtain imbued max luck suit. Lets see it. Not, etc, etc, etc. Show me the suit and aggregate mods and what templates for which it is suitable.

    Since, I am talking "out my arse" please provide examples of combat builds with fewer suit dependencies than a tamer.

    Try to provide logic and facts rather than more ad hominem attacks.
     
  28. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    Draconi said that ages ago, it needs fixed sooner rather than later.

    Ill open up my luck chest when it does.

    When I am hitting an ettin with 2500 luck+ I should be getting blood ele loot and when I am hitting the blood elm I should get....dragon loot and so forth, don't forget the worthless loot of paragons
     
  29. Grinchy

    Grinchy Guest

    Here you go buttwhipe. Hows this for stats on a luck suit.

    Resists:
    70
    70
    65
    64
    69

    Mana Regen:
    11

    LRC:
    100

    Luck:
    1610

    FC 3
    FCR 6

    HPR 4

    Nice suit for a tamer, a mage, a necro, a spell weaver, a mystic, a bard. The mods can easily be changed to support any dexer template thru imbuing.

    Combat builds? You playing UO or SoF or some other FPS? And if your talking about building a luck suit for a PvPer then you truly are an idiot.

    If you had even a tiny bit of knowledge about UO then you would know that luck ONLY counts for the last hit dealt to the monster prior to its death. So, if you use that marble of a brain rolling around in your head a little bit you could figure out that you can wear what ever damn suit you want to wear while killing said monster then change to your luck suit just before you deal the killing blow to it. Sheesh pull your head out of the sand.
     
  30. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    What he said!!

    This was to be a discussion, please don't fill it with drivel if you really have no clue. We are not here to teach you how to play the game, we are here to discuss fixing the luck system, which has been broken for a very long time...


    and yet they still give out luck items as the latest "go fetch boy" rewards.

    Fix the god damned luck and I will be impressed.
     
  31. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    What he said...
     
  32. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    I don't care about the luck discussion - the developers have already said that it's broken - widow maker should have read that - he's a uhall board warrior

    what I really wanna know is how he's killing the stygian dragon in 15 minutes by himself with only 1 support character - care to share with the peanut gallery?
     
  33. Ivorythorn

    Ivorythorn Guest

    I usually don't worry about luck. But today I went to drop a lucky coin, and what did I get for my effort? A boost to my luck. With the coin drop I DOUBLED my luck, so I went and killed a few goblins. Any change in the loot? Nope. And I had been getting some good loot there. So as an experiment I recalled out, hit the luck statue, and came back. So I had the highest luck I have ever had playing. Over 1K. Killed quite a few more goblins. Loot drops were about the same, and in some ways worse. Some goblins had just gold and gems, and that had never happened before. ALWAYS a little bit of loot, which I didn't mind because I was unraveling things I didn't want to keep or sell...

    Is luck broke? I have no idea... if it's a GAME FEATURE it should WORK as intended. Fix it or get rid of it, and make it risk versus reward. Just my opinion.

    Ivorythorn
     
  34. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Luck is a form of superstition, so perhaps it is fitting there is so much doubt as to its effectiveness.

    As for Luck being a tamer-only thing, there's always perfection which potentially reaches further than a non-combat.

    I've noticed better loot with Luck but, no matter what your "beliefs" may be, an ounce of developer comment is worth a ton of anecdotal data.
     
  35. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    Luck should not be removed from Ultima online it should be fixed.
    • Believe it or not luck is my favorite mod in UO when it is working right though it is currently broken it still gives me great joy when I use a high luck set it gives me added excitement and wonder at how good the loot might just be.
    • For those that whined in the past when luck did work correctly because those with luck sets got better over all loot on average keep in mind high luck sets also normally resulted in lower resist sets causeing more deaths so it was a sort of balanced things out sure ill most likely get better loot when it works correctly but ill also most likely die more often.
    If you or anyone else doesn't like luck in the game that is fine then don't wear it but don't take luck away from those of us who want to wear luck.
     
  36. I'd love to see pics of each piece and a description of what was imbued on each individual piece, along with what each piece had as a base prior to imbuing.
     
  37. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    I don`t think they are releasing all the new luck stuff so we can increase our overall luck rating to 3-4 or 5k. I think its meant to make it easier for everyone able to get to the max amount of luck... 2k or whatever?

    I`ve found I get the best loot with 800-1k luck. Anymore and its a waste and no noticable difference at least from my experience.
     
  38. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    That is an excellent bit of imbuing work. People that don't use imbued items just don't understand what we are accomplishing with them.

    Now, about that loot. I have gotten at least 100s of 1000s of items. Personally I think its in the millions, but I understand people can't hear numbers like that. I routinely get over 3k items to unravel in a day. I never noticed the amount of loot til imbuing because I just left over 99% of it. We have 2 houses we fill up the extra items in before we unravel for the day. They have 3600 items appx.

    I said that to say this. You DEFINITELY get better items with 600-1200 luck than you do with 200 luck. There's no doubt about it. My wife is a senior scientist that works with statistics to a living. She's graduated from a college in Ala, NC State Univ, UNC & MIT. I doubt highly theres a more educated person here in statistics. This is a real person with real degrees not a made-up person from the no matter what you got mine is longer or shorter school. We have the data to make this statement. More luck works better than less luck up to a point. I don't know if insanely high levels of luck really work. I mean sometimes with the luck stone I'll have maybe 1800 luck on someone for a while but you cant tell with an hour here or there. Also, I never noticed the additional luck mattering.

    One more thing it seems like the 1000 luck from max perfection isn't working at all, but I can't tell that for sure.
     
  39. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    I agree with this statement. The sweet spot seems to be 800-1200.
     
  40. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    It is extremely easy but if I told you, the Devs would take time out to make it harder, instead of using that time to actually FIX a completely broken mod, that affects absolutely everyone.

    ...and Yes, I know the Devs have said prior that it was broken. This discussions purpose is to fire up their asses to fix it..after several years of NOT fixing it.
     
  41. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    This is Just theory

    Perhaps luck isn't quite broke. Maybe it is dependent on the monster/expansion and loot table.

    Legacy Monsters - We knew it worked. ie blood elementals as well as AOS additions from doom.

    Samurai Empire - I personally only got junk regardless on how much luck I had in tokuno lands.

    Mondains Legacy - Seemed like it worked on ML critters such as Lady M.

    SA - Seems like it is broke regarding SA additions.
     
  42. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    That's pretty much what HE said:
    FoF March 13, 2009
     
  43. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    I still say that they should a.) completely rework the loot tables from the ground up so that they make sense and don't even require Luck and then b.) introduce the concept of Critical Hits and change Luck to be their modifier.
     
  44. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    "Luck is for chickens."

    I don't like "luck" at all and never did. I think it's just another item grind level for powergamers, and is a real turn off for everyone else.

    On top of this, I wish they'd further reduce the effects of powerscrolls and items. It's just ludicrous that after reaching Grand Master, a character is still far away from being competitive, and can't even get looting rights at an event without these little gems.
     
  45. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    Only problem with this is that most people that use luck are tamers so there will be no "critical hits."
     
  46. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    *Shudders at the thought of a Greater Dragon having a Crit.*:stretcher:
    *Shudders more at the thought of these great beasts with a lucky tamer*
    *Shudders some more* Reflex.
     
  47. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

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    You know Trebr I to break it to you but that sounds just like this.....

    Refusal to use electricity... computers.... running water... the telephone.... what are you Amish??

    Get with the times....

    It depends on your gameplay.... I suppose if you want to play a menenite ... or whatever sure go ahead and don't upgrade to the latest and greatest thing..... keep in the past....

    Meanwhile don't berate the rest of us for moving on..... if nothing ever changed or improved or you had no where else to take your character.... no more goals to obtain.... not more places to explore..... you know what..... you'd have no more game to play..... why? Because everyone else would have long since obtained their goals and moved on to another game....

    Stangnant pools harbor ill will.

    you ever hear that a rolling stone gathers no moss???

    Your mossy.
     
  48. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Single shot..to the head..I like it :)

    The fact that not one DEV or anyone in a position to make the changes has bothered to grace us with their presence speaks volumes.

    How utterly sad.
     
  49. altarego

    altarego Guest

    Um...that's what the "Ask the Dev" subforum is for.
     
  50. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Hey Malagaste, whats up with the Menonite hate?...A bunch of my family are Menonites. :)

    Anyway....Luck -

    I think the best idea, as has been mentioned many times, is that the loot tables need a relook/revamp/retool, whatever. Then luck, and its application vs. the loot tables needs to also be retooled.

    i do not think that luck should directly impact any skills. This, in my opinion, would move uo even further away from a skill based game (I know, uo can't find a skill based game even with a top of the line TomTom or Garvin or whatever, but let's not move in the opposite direction any more).

    As far a obtaining a luck suit? As with a template, Luck should be a trade off with other suit modes. Do I want the mana regen or the luck or the lower mana cost or the resists or the lower reagent cost or the defense increase, etc. Yes, imbueing has allowed a general closing of the gap betweem the uber (5 people on the shard can afford) suits and the not so uber (my suits). And that is PvM. I do not believe that luck has any place (currently) in PvP, and i do not believe that it ever should.