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Letter to Cal on Low Hanging Fruit

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Bruin, Jun 7, 2010.

?

Do you agree with the requested 'low hanging fruit' changes?

Poll closed Jun 14, 2010.
  1. Yes I agree with focusing efforts on Events, lowering Silver Costs, and Advanced Char Tokens.

    79.0%
  2. No I don't agree with focusing efforts on Events, lowering Silver Costs, and Advanced Char Tokens.

    21.0%
  1. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    About a week and a half ago, Cal ‘Uriah’ the UO producer and Mesanna were kind enough to meet with us about issues that have been plaguing Siege. My understanding is that he requested that we get back to him on some possible changes that are ‘low hanging fruit.’ This afternoon, Kat, Forsaken, Kelmo and I met in vent to discuss the possibilities. Prior to, Cal had also PM’d me regarding our original request months ago and what could not be done – so our request takes these into consideration.

    Cal mentioned that changes to RoT took the dev team about 2 months to test and re-test to get it right, and didn’t have the desired affect of increasing Siege’s population – thus we would probably want to focus our efforts elsewhere. When it comes to housing or bank-box storage, Siege could not be coded any differently than other shards thus eliminating our thoughts of Grandfathered Housing or increased bank box storage.

    Below is what Kat, Kelmo, Forsaken and I had thought best to request. We want to make sure that we have the support of Siege before putting this forward.

    What we are requesting:

    1. Events: preferably those based around accelerated skill gain zones (blackrock) and/or cursed arties. Quite simply, the population on Siege is low minimizing interaction and events foster interaction. One of the main reasons people come to Siege and don’t stick around is because there are too few people on. So when one goes hunting, or even to a bank, it is rare they will ever run into anyone else. Anytime an event is going on in a specific location, typically that becomes the primary hunting spot, and of course the murderers (pks) and pvp’ers follow – fostering interaction. This minimizes the feeling of solitude within the MMORPG. Accelerated skill gain zones (black rock) are preferable because they assist with the tediousness of training, and cursed artifact loot helps minimize the imbalance between the rich and non-rich in pvp.
    2. Lower faction artifact costs: Currently faction artifacts on Siege cost 5x as much as other shards. While the goal of Siege is supposed to be a more ‘advanced’ shard, increasing the silver requirement for faction artifacts simply means people need to farm at least 5x more in order to acquire a faction artifact suit. This is taking nearly 6 hours to farm a single suit that can be lost in one pvp engagement. The difficulty in acquiring faction artifacts is causing people to give up fighting, as it is very difficult to fight without them and very hard to acquire. Thus lowering the silver costs would simply put more people out on the battlefield, having more fun, which is after all the point of why we play this game, to have fun.
    3. Allow Advanced Character Tokens: This has a both win-win of bringing in additional revenue for EA, while minimizing the tediousness of training. It would lower the amount of training time from about 3 months to 2 month to fully train a character. Hopefully, it will convince others that have heard rumors about the difficulties of RoT to give Siege a try as they now know they have a better starting point.


    Do you agree with our request?

    I'd like to thank the dev team for taking the time to consider our concerns. Please keep this thread positive, I don't think it's appropriate to discuss any negativity as that doesn't get us anywhere. If you have a genuine concern about our request, please put it forward.
     
  2. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    that sucks about the ROT timers. But those requests are great. I would actually be encouraged to train up my old skills if there were a "blackrock" area.


    :thumbup1::thumbup1:
    two thumbs up
     
  3. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    1. Maybe, not hot on the idea of accelerated skillgain zones but it doesn't really bug me either. About the not seeing anyone, that won't change too much. People don't hang around banks and go afk much on siege as it leads to coming back to your screen as a ghost with a looted body. If you want to find people, you'd have better luck hanging out in serpents den docks, terra keep, the star room, and other spawn related areas.

    2. IMHO they're too cheap as it is already, the difficulty of getting them doesn't even compare to how hard it is to get the same items non-faction.

    3. I honestly don't think they're appropriate on siege. (Though I never liked it when they added them to prodo.)
     
  4. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Wait till you've been on siege longer than a week or so then you'll understand why you hate gaining skill so much. Also, the faction artifacts do need lowered. Grinding for items isnt hard, but as its been stated it takes 6 hours to farm a suit. Not everyone can do that and it doesn't encourage faction pvp at all.
     
  5. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    Awesome Bruin. I love all 3...
     
  6. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    I had to vote no.
    I very much am in support of #1
    But #2 I was on the fence about
    "the difficulty of getting them doesn't even compare to how hard it is to get the same items non-faction."
    I do agree with this and I have arties out the ass.

    #3 This is just my own personal opinion and won't reflect the common Noob to siege..I love training skills. But I also enjoy herding, begging and RP or helping noobs. When your goofing off in game just trying to make people giggle Rot is much less tedious.
     
  7. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Another thing to keep in mind with these proposed changes... This is just the initial round of "low hanging fruit" that may be implemented fairly quickly. Sometime after the end of July we'll have the opportunity for bigger changes.


    Please vote ASAP, so we can determine whether these are acceptable changes and if they are, get the list to Cal so they can -hopefully- make the next publish or two.
     
  8. CroakerTnT

    CroakerTnT Guest

    Yes. I definitely would like to see the blackrock training areas turned on again permanently.

    They were too fun.
     
  9. CroakerTnT

    CroakerTnT Guest

    Actually, I agree with you about #3, but the main reason prodo-players consistently quote as the reason for avoiding siege is training. Apparently, lots of people don't enjoy training. Strange, but if we want to encourage people to join us, I'm willing to go with advanced chars.

    I don't really care about #2 one way or the other, but I'll go along if people are so strongly attached to the idea.
     
  10. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    You may have arties out the ass but how did you get them? I just saw one of your post and you was talking about arties from "events" from what I saw like tokuno etc arties you can no longer get... Cursed arties you can no longer get....

    So tell me how do the new players compete once they finish making a character? I know i'm not selling my arites because I know you can "NOT" get them anymore.... Just something for you to think about...
     
  11. eekamouse

    eekamouse Guest

    I voted yes, but would also like the devs to consider the following as well...

    Change RoT timer from 5 to 1 for 70-80, and 15 to 5 for 80+.
    Increase Bank storage from 125 to 400.
    Increase Arty/Marty drop rate across the board.
     
  12. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Did you read the first paragraph? They said its a no go for ROT and bank storage. Cant change Siege alone with out changing the other shards... Or something along those lines.
     
  13. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Our intention with the Arty/Marty drops [cursed or otherwise], is for all of them to be included. The original cursed arties, ML and ToK arties, ToK Majors, Doom Arties, etc.

    It is our hope to close the gaps between the haves and the have nots, between faction player and non-faction player equipment and to reduce the cost of equipping for everyone, which is currently way out of whack on Siege.
     
  14. Duke TNT

    Duke TNT Guest

    I think all three of these ideas are good. Admittedly, I am not exactly sure how the advanced character tokens work but if ROT cannot be changed, they seem like the next best option in regards to skill gain.

    The silver prices/faction arty prices are currently too high. I joined siege (and UO for that matter) about 6 months ago and since I had never played before, I suck butt at PvP. Equipping faction arties is simply too expensive for a new player to do. I would buy a suit, fight for 30 seconds, maybe a minute if I'm lucky, and then lose 6 hours worth of farming (if somehow I managed to not get PKed in those 6 hours, way more time if I do get messed with). I tried fighting without faction arties and there is no contest. Raptor, I agree with you. They are very easy to get compared to an equivalent for non-faction fighters but the way the shard is now, with most PvPers in factions, lowering prices will bring more people...which is the ultimate goal IMO. I fully, 100% support lowering the prices.

    The events are also a good idea. The blackrock areas are definitely preferred but I would welcome other events too (like if they brought dreadmares back :thumbup1: ).
     
  15. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    I am with you and others on this. Whatever it takes to make Siege better.
    I wish there had been a voting option #3 on the poll.
    Do the devs even care what we poll or post?

    I guess I can still hope.
     
  16. Duke TNT

    Duke TNT Guest

    I'm pretty sure they do. Even if they don't look at every single poll we make, the polls are important in knowing what the community wants so we can relay that information to the devs. All the polls that happened a couple months ago were used in the letter written to them and as far as I know, thats what got their attention (even if it was not only the letter that caught their eye, it probably played a major role in showing what we want).

    As a side note, if the devs do read these polls and our comments, it is probably not beneficial for anyone to criticize them if they are our only chance at saving siege. Just a thought...
     
  17. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    You really are out of the loop. Calvin (UO Producer) asked us for a list of Siege specific changes that we feel would promote the spirit of Siege Perilous. Also, the changes needed to be agreed upon by the community. Soooo, they do care whats going on...which is awesome.
     
  18. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    I often give them away! As I was doing in my post almost.
     
  19. IanJames

    IanJames Certifiable
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    I'm in favor of this...

    what happened to getting Siege put on the shard listing?
     
  20. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    Hey I give them away. Sad for you to not share your toys with others.
     
  21. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Is that a part of this poll? How comes it was not included?
     
  22. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    Yeah! That has got to be a simple fix.
     
  23. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Probably more complicated than you think.

    There's probably a lot of unique code involved and tied into siege on the server list and UOs young status. It's tied to EA/Myths account management system (think like vet rewards.)
     
  24. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    You guys should have also tried to address stealth/detect (either reduce detect timer and increase the AoE and its effectiveness) or ask for passive detect.

    Fixing detect is a UO-wide problem. They don't deal with the imbalances of stealth because they have passive detect. It's balanced for prodo. You could give us what they have along with the suggestions in this thread or you could make detect hidden a better skill for all of UO and even get rid of passive detect on prodo.

    A lot of the players on this shard left because of frustrations over stealth tamers who don't take the same risks, but reap the same and sometimes more rewards (high end pvm and effectively naked no risk pvp/pvm.)

    This is a great start though.
     
  25. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    Sorry but what does this have to do with this poll? Is this low hanging fruit..IE an easy fix? I think not.
     
  26. Sunchicken

    Sunchicken Guest

    I voted yes. I think these are all three ideas that will promote population growth and that is the bug issue.

    I do agree with BR. I think one of the main issues on siege is the strength of tamers along with the over effectiveness of stealth.

    PASSIVE REVEAL AND BONDED PETS USE SIEGE BLESS...
     
  27. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    Trust me, all the concerns seen in this thread are known and something we, as a community will work on in the future. I've also seen a few mentions as to why Siege Perilous could not be put on the server list-Be patient and hopefully Bruin will be able to respond soon.
     
  28. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Putting passive detect on siege is an extremely easy fix. The codes already written, used and in effect on every other server.
     
  29. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    We have discovered many things we thought were easy are not...
     
  30. Mr.StinkyPants

    Mr.StinkyPants Slightly Crazed
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  31. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Addressing stealth with something that's already there... you don't get easier than that. Unless they themselves say a reason it's not easy, asking for something that's already provided to others means you don't get any easier than that.

    Don't play politics with me. I'd suggest staying as far out of this as you can.
     
  32. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *composes self*

    Thank you for your input Draxous...
     
  33. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Actually, Draxous, we'd thank you for staying out of this. You ruin every attempt to do something positive for this shard and you do not play here. Ever.
     
  34. I've voted yes, Bruin, but if you're still in touch with Cal, I'd also like to know what the chances are of new players being able to transfer over here - no stuff - apart from perhaps advanced char stats/skillpoints and also being allowed to bring their soulstones (emptied or half done, I'm easy either way) with them.

    We have a lot of new players who are always voicing regret about their stones having been claimed on another shard. I believe this would be a decent incentive for them, since a few of the main requests (what we thought of as basics) are not available without a lot of hassle in coding.
     
  35. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    That's funny. All of the suggestions in this thread are things I pushed for years ago. You have been one of the most vocal and active in preventing this stuff from happening.

    So tell us all: if you think this is something positive for this shard, why did you ruin every past attempt at accomplishing what you're trying to right here, right now?



    So can the devs add passive detect to siege or what?
     
  36. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Your welcome Kelmo! :)

    Steath and the way players abuse it has hurt this shard. It would be great if we could get it addressed somehow!
     
  37. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    BR...I agree with you on the passive detect. Look at our poll, lets work on the things at hand first.

    p.s. For anyone hating on passive detect, just know that it isn't as bad as you may think. For the thieves, this means you better have 120 Stealth...Which you should have to begin with, none of this hybrid nonsense like the stealth tamers, stealth boks/fencers.

    Anyways, push for the poll then when/if Cal gives the YES to it, we'll push for other things, agreed? Stop bickering in this thread though.
     
  38. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *nods* let's stick to the issues at hand. If you think i am not serous... Sakey and I agreed on all of these. *spits*
     
  39. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Look folks... If Sakey, Kat, Bruin and I can agree on somthing... Buy into it.
     
  40. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Clicked the wrong button, meant to vote yes on this.
     
  41. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    Is there any way to change it? ><
     
  42. Luka Melehan

    Luka Melehan Certifiable
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  43. Shh!

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    Not in 100% agreement but I do think all of these changes will help draw players to Siege so I voted Yes.
     
  44. John Connelly

    John Connelly Journeyman
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    Have we not been here before? Cal has been sent a list of things that Siege players want, he just needs to get on and make them before the shard is reduced to the last few survivors. I don't recall 1, 2 or 3 being on the list. Are we starting again in the never ending cycle? Ask for suggestions - poll - agreement - do nothing - ask for suggestions again - poll - agreement - do nothing - ask for suggestions again - poll - agreement - do nothing - ask for suggestions again - poll - agreement - do nothing - zzzzzzzzzzz

    Forget more polls , low hanging fruit blah blah blah. Bruin seems an intelligent sort of guy. Let him speak for all of us and say what are the main changes that need to be made. I trust his judgment.
     
  45. Afterglow

    Afterglow Seasoned Veteran
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    Hence I agree with only a part of the proposed changes I won't cast my vote.
    No. 1 - yes
    No. 2 - I'd give it a yes in case people equipped with faction items could only attack other factioneers so there is no disadvantage for non faction players who want to participate in pvp (or not!).
    No. 3 - not really for it, Siege gets the players that don't want that easy shard currently.
     
  46. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    If you trust his judgment then you should have not voted no. I really don't think people who voted no are putting much thought as to why. . .

    This cycle is being broken right here, right now. These are the first of hopefully many changes to happen on Siege Perilous. Keep in mind that the "lower faction cost" is a temporary fix (until they revamp Factions) for the majority that still PvP or wish to and not have to worry about 6 hours of farming for one suit. You're obviously not one of them, hence why you're not a majority.

    I feel your post is a troll and maybe you should ask questions first before making such a harsh response and/vote in this case.
     
  47. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Meh!

    Why did it have to be all-or-nothing options...
     
  48. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    A few points:

    1. @ Shal - Several months ago when we were discussing allowing character transfers over to Siege, the devs basically said it was not possible. I don't remember the details of why, but it's in a thread somewhere on Uhall. Soulstones, I don't know but I guess that would be difficult since there is no existing code for it.

    2. I put this poll up because that is what I told Cal I would do. Put together a list of the 'low hanging fruit', make sure Siege was on board with it by putting forward a poll, and then letting Cal know.

    3. @ Ian - Siege on Shard listing. UO is a game with a very difficult learning curve, Siege makes things even more difficult. Dropping a truely brand new player into Siege does not make good business sense because the likelyhood the new player will be even more frustrated with the difficulty of Siege (think how Prodo shards have haven to guide them) and quit. Because of this, as it is today, the devs won't put Siege on the shard list, something I do understand.

    4. Regarding passive detect and Pet bonding. Personally, I completely agree with these issues, the question we are being asked here is the stuff that can be quickly implemented. Pet bonding via Siege bless probably can't be quickly implemented because it would be a new dev setup. For passive detect to be quickly enabled, it would probably have to copy prodo shards, which to my understanding it is what we don't want. Lets get what we can done short term, then start talking about the long term stuff (such as passive detect and pet bonding).

    5. Remember at least my understanding is that there was the original email sent a couple months back with our overall changes. We learned most of those can not be quickly implemented, so Cal asked us to get back to him on what POSSIBLY could be quickly implemented (no promises!). We are *HOPING* that maybe one or two of these, possibly all three, could be quickly implemented. Then look at the other issues that were previously addressed and possible new ones over the long term.
     
  49. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    Back @ Shal - here is the thread where the devs basically said character transfer is currently not possible.
     
  50. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    You combined two different issues. Stick to passive detect. Pet bonding can wait... and i highly doubt it will ever happen. You can't kill a blessed orny. You risk bugs (stable a blessed pet?) You ruin the countless hours spent training the pets if they arent blessed. Only way for this to work is if all pets tamed are 90-100% already trained. This would be unique code because its not found anywhere else. Etc. etc. I never asked for that. Too damn complicated just talking about what would need to be done.

    Forget pet bonding. I'm pretty sure it's here to stay.

    Say what?

    Why is that not what we want? The game is balanced and tailored to that kind of play and every suggestion in this thread moves us towards that.

    Besides, I'm only asking one thing of you.

    Find out if it's easy to implement. That's it.

    We can have the conversation about it once we know if it's an easy fix or not.