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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Vyal, Dec 14, 2008.
What other games are out there like UO with player housing?
If housing is the only good thing about UO you can think of, there isn't much to say.
Darkfall is suposedly going to have player housing with pickable doors and lootable chests.
I know i tried vanguard and rented a flying mount and flew over the top of a player comunity while it was being built. That was kind of kool in that the houses went through stages like contruction was going on due to resource limitations.
there are quite a few housing in mmo tyoe games and its tough to say anything about them as I ust dont like SOE at all.
The Sims? Just throwin it out there.
Darkfall is suposedly going to have player housing with pickable doors and lootable chests.
Having played during the days when houses were NOT secure (due to either losing your key or any number of "break in" bugs), BEFORE there were such things as secure chests or locked down items, I can predict with a reasonable amount of certainty that this will go over like a fart in church... ESPECIALLY if the houses remain vulnerable while the owner is offline.
Darkfall sounds like UO when it first came out. Things will change once player's complain.. just like they did here.
Did UO have people spamming the message boards of other games with their naive drool?
(I couldn't care less if it was good or bad any more, I just don't want to hear about it any more HERE)
They're trying to recreate the feel, but I don't think it's going to do as well as expected considering that UO was not only a new game, but basically the introduction of a new genre with NO competition at the time. Once a competitior offering a choice AWAY from non-con PvP situations, the market changed DRASTICALLY.
Even with the PvP options of the "800 lb gorilla" WoW, it's still a 100% choice in whether you involve yourself in PvP or not starting with the server you choose and the areas you go.
As for housing in games other than UO, I know SWG has/had them, Anarchy Online has/had them, and LotRO has them. Beyond that... dunno.
Maplestone: The EQ spamming on the old old old UHall right before it released was MUCH worse.
Just think your crafter will vbe viable again. Sheesh all the complaing around here about my crafter cant sell his good and you complaining their economy is based on off setting that fact.
Hooray for crafters self destruction!
Glad I wasn't around for that
(I seem to be taking the chatter a little too personally for some reason ... I wonder if I'm afraid of losing another slice of our community or if I'm nervous I'll be proven wrong about what does or doesn't work well in a game design)
Darkfall is coming along quite nicely with (I think) a January or Febuary release date (in Europe, NA to be announced). There is a beta preview on thenoob and any info you could possibly want about the game is on their forums. As far as another game that has player housing... Well other have already touched on that. But none of these games offer the experience or depth that UO does.
Finally a constructive comment. Those that get defensive at the mention of another game are not true gamers, just cornered animals.
Or just sick of hearing how great DF is... Weekly... For seven years...
If you read my original post you'd see that I never said that DarkFall was great.. only that it is starting with the same ideas that UO started with. Things will change.
Lord of the Rings Online has player housing.
All I knows if there is open looting like that..... I want no part of it..... Nothing like working really hard to gain stuff only to have some jerk off take everything you worked for..... Nope.....
I'm sorry if others get a kick out of stealing and looting from other players... but to me that's a major turn off and quite honestly I think it stinks.... To me it's just another form of griefing
and as far as I know LoTR and SWG have housing though I believe SWG is closer to UO in how much you can actually do yourself with design and deco...
I didn't mean any individual post/thread, specifically.
It was just an alternative explanation for why people get all twitchy when Darkfall comes up
If this turns into a "UO has the best house decorating ability of any game" thread then I know this game is dying. There must be more to this game than old players whining about their houses.
Come on people.. community, relationships, challenge, events, etc.
Well honestly UO does have the best housing of any MMO on the market.
The other this is there is a big stink around about alot of MMo companys going F2P and selling their items for cash as a mean of income, From what i head soe might have it in the works to turn all their games to cash for points points for items F2P. Now thats a game model I dont like.
As to free loot open pvp with no skill caps:
Items are less important than they are in UO AND its single char slot, Meaning if you want to be red thats all youll be is red no town no skill upgrades no help from anyone! If ya look into it it is very balanced!
Im sorry any SWG fan out there but that game has such potentil and floped so baddly when soe took it from lucas arts. They had sandbox and gave it all away for a WoW model that just stunk! Ill never play an SoE game again for spite! The jabba mission was fun though after that i couldnt stomacje the restrictions. But the houseing was city driven. Where you have massive player citys with player mayors and militia. This was a ton of fun to play with or even just read about and thats ben trashed as well. Now everone has the mayor skills for free and its no longer a class of its own.
*hiss*! *grrr*! *fluffs*! *swats*!
*gains 0.1 ninjitsu*
But slightly more on topic - I wonder whether there will ever be an industry-standard player-house format ... obviously not everything (especially decorations) would be translatable, but it would be interesting if one could actually port the basic template of one's home between games). We're starting to see industry-standard UIs - the next step would be to have pieces of the game carried around between MMORGPs - characters (like "mii"s are for the wii) and then whole subsystems.
EQ2 , not sure about Tales in the desert but that one goes into 4th incarnation soon.
Lotr has housing too.
The housing in Vanguard is not customizable, it's premade templates depending both on what continent you build the house on and also what house type you choose. Compared to UO, the storage is pitiful as well. But you can manipulate any object you place inside your house anyway you want, which is a definitely a plus. The graphics are very nice, too.
star wars galaxies has housing. It was the only game that gave me close to the same feel that I have with UO. It did not compare, but the skill system and pvp was fun to explore. I hear they messed it all up after I left though.
1) It was always a SOE game with lucas arts obviously being a partner due to the trademark involved. Unless I am mistaken?
2) In my opinion, the game sucked from day 1. Some classes were bug-ridden and unplayable for well over the first month into the game. It was the least polished game I had ever played with camps flying all over and a thousand places to get stuck. Heck, they had duping going on before the end of the first month! The 1-character per shard sucked a lot too as it gave a tremendous advantage to people who had multiple accounts. The game was filled with pretty buildings that you could not even enter - what they say about garnish on food also holds true for useless pixels in game. I closed my account after day 50 once I was over the graphics.
The customizable houses in UO are unique. There is no such thing remotely comparable in any other MMORPG. I read a lot about Darkfall too (the game really sounds promising), but I think that custom housing has to be quite limited (from a technical aspect) in a 3D game. Why? Because in UO you have tiles, and there is always one certain tile where you can place an item.
I tried several 3D MMORPGs, some of which had custom housing or something similar (for example, Anarchy Online, where you had an instanced private appartment). You could place some furniture and decorate, but it was very very limited.
3D games usually work with coordinates, which means there is not a determined spot where you could place an item (which basically means that it is very unlikely that you can place an item in the same spot twice, because finding that spot again in an infinite coordinate system is close to impossible).
That is one big difference between 3D games and games based on tiles. Tile-based games allow you to "leave a trace" in the game world (i.e. place an item on the ground where it can be found by other players). In 3D games this is either very very difficult or impossible.
Perhaps you dont know then....
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but SWG WAS a lucas arts game originally and it WAS a sandbox no class limitations game and it WAS a good game before SOE got involved.
What a jip.
DAoC has housing but it's noting more then storage.
DAOC's housing is not "nothing more than storage"
its probably the best housing system in any MMO if you ask me. the houses themselves are fairly customizable, plus you get to decorate your lawn unlike UO. you can put up a wall around your house, make gazebos, wells, outhouses, knick-knacks, rocks, walkways, etc. The interiors arent very customizable besides colors and stuff but theres way more options for furniture and deco, you can make them very homey. lots of NPC options as well like healer, banker, blacksmith, vendors, etc. if you want to play an MMO purely for how cool the housing system is, go DAOC. theres like 100x more security options too. like 10 levels of access all with customizable options.
You want a yard and a wall around your house, then get an 18x18 plot, build a wall on the outer perimeter and build a 10x10 house. Wala, you have a fenced in yard! You want an outhouse, you can build an outhouse, and better yet, yours doesn't have to look like everyone else's outhouse! That goes for anything you've listed there, except for having vendors in your houses. I never had a house in DAoC for the couple months I played, but I am pretty positive, based on my perception of the game from what I have played and heard, that DAoC has nothing on UO's house custimizability.
Darkfall does have player housing, however it does not have all the decorative capability of UO, due to the fact that you can't drop an item from your pack onto the floor, doing that deletes the item. There are chests/containers in the houses that you can use for storage. However, if another clan takes the city your house is in, you lose your house and anything in it.
European release date is January 22, 2009.
Never tried it, but I bet they had customizable housing
Other one is second Life where I also bet they have customizable .. everything
I hope this isn't bursting any sort of bubble, but... I would wager a very strong majority of UO players (myself included) are only here because right now all the viable MMO alternatives are mainstreamized junk without the depth or wide range of things you can do as UO has. And a lot of us are here out of nostalgic loyalty, too. Honestly UO right now is not the game I loved and had fantastic memories of. That game, and most of the people who played it, are long gone. If another game TRULY captured that feel of early UO, I would leave for it in a heartbeat, because it certainly isn't here in UO proper anymore. The only question really is, will it live up to the hype. I remember when UO players were threatening, promising, or announcing that they were leaving, en masse, for EQ. And I waved them all off, even some from my guild and people I knew in game, and watched them sign back up six months later and leave EQ. I never played original EQ, but I heard one thing overa nd over again from all the people who came back... "It's Ever-Level. It's just a grindfest." Well, that sums up my experience of most other major MMO's too, including WOW. So until a game sufficiently deviates from a PvM powergrinder treasure orgy model, I'll sit and wait.
You came late to the MMO game and your only experience of them are games where it takes FOREVER to earn gear. You apparently weren't around in early UO where the only gear was basically all the armor you could buy in the store, and slightly better player-crafted versions of the same. That was it. The EQ and later WOW games built on the model of progressive quality gear farming to keep you occupied while you are paying your monthly fees, and UO finally gave in and started adding that stuff--- though it still was not present at the time I left sometime around '01 or '02. If a game truly follows the footsteps of old UO, you will not spend 30 hours grinding for ANY piece of gear that then some PK just swoops in and takes off you.
It's amazing though, how quickly and effectively the EQ/WOW raider model largely the brainchild of Tom Chilton/Evocare has become completely saturated, accepted and expected in any MMO. It doesn't have to be that way. I'd rather my game be about, my game, rather than farming for the next marginally better piece of gear, forever, never-ending.
This is what has died and moved on from UO that can never be replicated, even if we somehow all agreed on the "perfect ruleset" and EA implemented it. You can't resurrect the dead and you can't make players out of water. The community is what's gone, and that's why people have increasingly turned more towards deco, design, character appearance and solo farming of rare items.
Ah those were good times indeed. I remember having to hold all my runes in my bankbox, they were more precios then gold.
UO housing is terrific, and the only addition worth a damn since AOS.
Wait ... there are other games besides UO?? /runs/
I was surprised too!
Here's a link to two other ones; you've probably heard them mentioned around the water cooler.
I guess those people you see in the parking lot but don't know who they are? They're working on those.
Actually that makes me curious.....Do you all know each other at Mythic? Or are each of the individual teams big enough that you don't interact much?
Qft qft qft qft qft qft qft qft qft . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
UO's housing is definitely the best on the market, all of my friends in rl have quit uo years ago and make fun of me for still playing it, they all play wow now and have been for some time. I tried wow in beta and didn't care for it, never played any diablo game or any game blizzard made for that matter. UO really still is a good game, it just needs constant new content or it gets boring very quickly, like theres been nothing to do in uo since the halloween stuff ended... but next pub will keep me occupied for a while
I am very much looking forward to the release of Darkfall and will play it on european servers if i have to. Of course ill play uo at the same time. You gotta be open minded to new games cause other games do exist... I mean UO copied ideas from wow, but wow and basically every other mmo copied ideas from UO too... like how peerlesses in uo are similar to instances in wow, although instances in uo would be fun, and arena fighting in uo would be fun too for those that know what that is in wow, and battlegrounds would be a good implement.
The main thing i hope darkfall achieves is stealing many players from wow to play it. I am sick of how many people play wow what is it like 12 million now? Its just sick, wow isn't that good of a game, you cant even choose what you do in wow like you gotta stick with your class and such alliance has to fight horde, no houses, no mounted fighting, you gotta do quests 24/7... in UO and Darkfall, you are completely free to do whatever you want, UO is a unique mmo in that sense and hopefully darkfall will follow it well, every other mmo is similar to wow even warhammer.
In UO you could make a carptenter, ninja, archer, cook if you wanted to... that kind of freedom is awesome !!! Insurance really did screw the game up bad and a lot of people quit because of it. When i started UO during renaissance, you could simply grab any weapon, like a regular gm made axe and kill people while being naked on a horse...... those were the glory days !!! this is the reason people want an official pre aos shard and if EA would understand this concept and listen to the many people that want it, they would create this. I feel it would get people to come back to the game that quit years ago.
Agreed very much that WOW is nothing special.
If you talk to hardcore WOW'ers, though (I Used to be pretty active on the WOW forums while playing) and frankly, any Blizzard fan, the sole requisite for direct measure of good game design is number of copies sold.
So, by the same yardstick, chains like Dominoes make the best pizza. McDonald's makes the best hamburger. Penny slots are a better game than poker or craps in a casino. Fruit of the loom makes the best quality underwear..... you get the idea.
I don't know where, along the line, customers have been indoctrinated into the idea that their interests and those of companies in the business of making games are the same. It's no longer "the customer is right", it's "they did it for a reason." It's no longer "I'm looking for a quality product", it's "stop being unrealistic, they're companies and they have to make what sells."
I honestly don't get this mindset at all. I understand the arguments as to what motivates companies. I don't understand why customers would adopt those motivations as their own in terms of how they shape liking, buying, or supporting certain design choices or games.
It's cause and effect, too. If you're willing to bend over backwards to wring out a rationalization for any decision, however poor, a company makes in terms of poor game design or dissing its loyal customers or whatever, you are basically enabling and encouraging that behavior by continuing to hand over your money. Yet, you will find plenty of people stiffed by customer service, neglected by in-game support, or extremely unhappy with a product or something changed in it, turning that into energy to attack people who complain about those issues for being so naive and whiny and not understanding that whatever a company does is best, because it has to make money.
That's sort of a side rant. As a general statement I'm tired of the idea that every game needs to be created for "every mainstream casual gamer as well as niche" is being heavily overdone and I think it's going to end up being an overextension that will collapse on itself. I mean I'm sorry... there are some genres you simply can't make a good version of it "for everyone." You can succeed at that to some degree, but I think the tradeoff tends to be completely alienating the niche fans while just sorta lukewarm pleasing the mainstream or casual fans who willw ander in because it is something new and has okay graphics, and will just as easily flit back out.
I'm a Final Fantasy fan going back to the NES era, who refused to play FF Online. I know a lot of longtime Warcraft fans who refused to play WOW for similar reasons. Basically just not being able to stand a series or loreset that you are into being heavily bastardized out to be intro-friendly to someone wholly ignorant about the storyline, characters or setting, and just wants to go whack a monster. There are Morrowind fans who still haven't played Oblivion because of the things they've heard about how much it dumbed down to reach all the "casual gamers", and basically abdicating its position as one of the very best niche single player sandbox RPG's in existence in favor of greater casual fan sales. A lot of those people who bought Bethesda's games for 12, 15 years are planning to sit out on the next game unless it proves a significant return to the former game styles. I have heard similar criticisms about Fallout 3's attempts to dumb down and be more appealing to non-fans.
The list just goes on, and on, and on. There is right now a dominant design paradigm in the gaming industry that every game can be made for everyone, max out sales, profit and full of win all around. And I'm waiting for that to fall on its face. There are a lot of people who refuse to touch WOW, among them many RPG fans. Many of you guys reading this, even. When every genre is doing the same thing of trying to make dominoes pizza versions of its game type "palatable to everyone but epic to no one", it's going to start adding up and creating screaming demand for strong niche again. And hopefully the trend will self-correct.
It won't, though, if people don't vote with their wallet and instead turn all their frustration or disappointment into energy for attacking anyone who complains or wishes for something else, and justifying every brain-dead game design that rolls off well-marketed, well-advertised store shelves from the latest big-name game designer.
No other game offers nearly what UO does.
I've looked at and tried out a great many Games......
Truth is that while many of them can definitely outshine UO any day with their graphics ..... often the games are just that..... Pretty pixels..... which does NOT make a game....
The beauty of UO is in the freedom of the game. My son plays Final Fantasy's online game.... and it's much like most of the other games..... It's a level based game..... and like most other games out there.... it's if your are this type of character and your this level then you need this sort of armor..... and if your that type of character at that level you need to get that armor....... to the point where there is ZERO creativity, ZERO variety and everyone is a cookie cutter of everyone else..... and while they may
"claim" that they have customization in truth they do NOT.....
And another thing yes a lot of them have Quests... but that's all the game is... One quest after another.... no real imagination.....
To me I don't want the game to tell me what I have to do and when..... I want to explore.... I want to challenge myself..... and by the gods I want to Role-play..... and one thing that UO does do in it's freedom of housing and many other things..... is it allows you to really feel like you can "change" and make a difference in your environment..... Many of the other games do NOT give you a sense that you can really do anything.....
UO's greatest feature is it's freedom..... There is no set template..... there is no set design you must comply with..... there is no need to compete or complete..... the only limitation to UO is your own imagination......
The rest can be created... UO has amazing things and even more amazing players..... Other games may think they offer a "world" but they don't....
People in UO have started Auction houses where there were none...... Opened their own Taverns. Built their own towns. Fought their own wars... Created their own Kingdoms..... they have created their own Governments..... Police..... They have become hero's and they have become villains..... Made names for themselves.... made cemeteries, Libraries, and dozens of other things that just wouldn't be possible in any other game.....
So anytime I hear someone tell me they are "bored" in UO I just can't fathom why...... Every time someone tries to tell me they are playing some other game that is soooo much greater than UO ... I ask them...... "Can I build my own home? Can I build a Town?..... A Library? Can I be the town drunk? Can I be a Drow? How about an Orc???" ....... If the answers are NO, No and NO....... then I have to ask..... so then what makes that game more than UO???? Pretty pixels???? So what. You can keep your pretty pixels.... they become old fast....
UO has a community like no other game..... and until another game can create a true community like UO ..... You can find me here IN UO.....
I live in the town of Newcastle.... where in my spare time when I'm not on duty as a Knight of Virtue defending the realm and its Citizens, I'm serving drinks at my Tavern under my Inn, The Wild Rose.....
Why do most of the posts wanting something revolve around new pixel crap then?
Because everything in UO is pixels. So no matter what we ask for, it's still pixels.
QFT. Well said.
AGREE!!! I came back because of the freedom