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Likely to quit soon, soulstone graveyard takeover

Discussion in 'UO Europa' started by Shakkara, Sep 1, 2013.

  1. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Due to the ongoing mismanagement of this game, the monthly fees of this game far exceed the amount of enjoyment I'm currently getting. I just can't be bothered to log in. The last straw is the fact that the elected governors have gotten ZERO support of the EM (and he in turn from Mesanna) to get anything done. No offices, no requests fulfilled, hardly any meetings with the king, no support for activities and events I was trying to organize for the players.

    As a result, I'm going to close accounts and at this point I'm not sure if I keep any of them open at all.

    Would anyone be interested in taking over the soulstone graveyard? It's on an account that I will close down for sure, unfortunately.
     
  2. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Can you tell me how many lockdowns it currently takes? I can possibly do so in one wing of my library; bear in mind it'll take a day or so to arrange even if I can take them all.
     
  3. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Hopefully the EM will step in and keep it open....pretty sure they have the power to place a house and use it for public use....When i started the soulstone graveyard years back i had similar issues were i closed accounts down due to spiraling costs for treading water game.....lucky for europa ...padraic took it over with his old Help guild......alas padraic as since long gone and you Shakkara and freinds were able to salvage most of the stones from padriacs faller....Its a big ask for someone to undertake....especailly the monthly fee for keeping a house for such a use....really do hope u have luck finding someone.....but your more likely to get some fiend who justs wanna hord the stones in case the devs make the Crazy mistake were 50 old ones can be turned in for a one new one...i hope not ...or more people will simply pack there UO bags....would be sad days....

    But seriously.. the EM should take this one on the chin.....for Europas sake...
     
    #3 THP, Sep 1, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  4. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    753 stones, excluding containers.
     
  5. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    heheheh Adol we posted at same time...not saying your a fiend a mate...but theres plenty out there who are.....Go for it...if u have the room....just would make more sense if the EMs made a special house and display for them....
     
    #5 THP, Sep 1, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  6. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    I'll send a mail to the EM and Mesanna first, good idea, see if they answer this one...
     
  7. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    I emailed Mesanna last night to ask if we could have an official announcement of the EM position; I don't think she responds weekends anyway, but hasn't said much for weeks to me either. My understanding from Adris when discussing events is they can't leave buildings up, the Cathedral Of Love was supposed to be torn down after the arc had been finished. However the EM house surely can't be near it's lockdown limit, unless it's used for storage of other things? And if there is a new EM, that's one thing they could do too, redesign it a bit to take over the Soulstones. As well as many of the things I suggested to help newbies that haven't even been acknowledged yet... sigh... I know she's overworked, but the whole thing has been frustrating.
     
  8. Jonathen

    Jonathen Sage
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    I'm prepared to take it on - have the storage space although would probably have to relocate as my current houses aren't the most accessible. Even during my 'inactive' periods I usually log on once or twice a week to harvest my tree stumps & ore carts. If the new EM is willing to run it that would be ideal of course.
     
  9. Europa Trader

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    New EM should be announched next Sunday
     
  10. Riply

    Riply Lore Keeper
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    Please do not quit!! :(
     
  11. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    There are lots of ways you can read this comment, but the simplest is that you have some knowledge behind the scenes. In which case... I must say I'm seriously disappointed with how it's all been handled. Firstly it wasn't explained it was a paid, contracted position. This complicated both working and taxation and should have been declared. And it never was, it was only through the old Europa EMs letting me know unofficially that this was the case; What if someone had taken it and then had to reject it once the contract was introduced? We'd be even more months without an EM. Why was this complication not spotted in advance?

    Then for the majority of the applicants there was virtually no communication at all; the odd "Still interested" email (literally just that, 2-3 words) and then month after month of drawn out suspense and concern before the same 3 words turned up again. How can you not possibly realise, in a small close knit community like Ultima Online has, where you are recruiting from that remaining playerbase, that public relations were vital to stay on top of?

    And finally hearing second hand, from an EM event, that a decision has been made? Completely unprofessional... especially as in most of the ideas I'd been submitting, I'd politely asked that they let the applicants know, because many of them were agonizing to me about where the process was. So it's not as if they couldn't have realised; I'd brought it up multiple times.

    Thus I'm hardly surprised Shakkara is thinking of quitting. The EM events in the meantime have been equally off putting, and disastrous to the sense of community; and what's worse, Borborad has had the sheer cheek to edit the Councillors Hall, putting his own items in pride of place, and editing the books indicating Event channel... directly interfering with and distorting Europa's culture to his own ego too, whilst running shoddy, badly designed events or just plain lazy filler (the last was a re-run of the daemon invasion of Moonglow, and has been done at least once more since then on Europa alone).

    In wider terms, the elections were an abusive farce and ultimately proved pointless. The global events before that were a mixture of reasonable content and an awful lot of horrible, terrible grinds... and ended in the most hamfisted manner imaginable (I still can't get over the "Humble Pie", confusing Humility with Humiliation and then just having mighty Exodus, a machine/daemon hybrid... just... running... off...). Nearly a year after the 15th Anniversary content was previewed, it finally arrived... as a full price deco booster. There has been some good over the years; but really, the current state of the soul of UO is obviously deplorable.

    I want to love and defend this game... but by god is it hard too these days.
     
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  12. Europa Trader

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    Lets put it this way, we are having a event at some point soon, its the second part of a 3 part event. It should be on Sunday. On the other hand, information passes me a lot. But this was not a big problem before, when a few other people knew more than the normal players.
    The EM jobs has been paid for a long time, but also remember that the amount they get paid is not a lot. Some EMs are more valuable than others tho.

    We will be fighting Dupre and Blackthorn or at least a alternate version of them who will be fighting for their "king". Time Lords, remember that we are going back in time on these ones. , you might not like the events, because its different to what you are used to. These events are great if you ask me, also remember this EM is doing both shards and doesnt really know much about Europa. You want him to start something when he knows someone else will come in soon. If he changed something to the Counselors Hall so what, seriously this was made by previous EM's and new EM might also change it. Every EM has their own style, they can't please everyone, and because some changes are looked at badly by some, others might like it better.
    Like some players I attend the events for items, I do not hide never have, never will. But in the past on Europa the events was focused on the bigger part of the comunity, for me most of the events on Europa was boring and never fun. There was a lot of mistakes ib how the events was planned, and I admit that I was one of those players who would skip ahead in most of them if possible.
    I have been to many events on many different shards, like a lot more players are doing now, you might not like that they are coming and attending the events for items, but it happens everywhere. I have enjoyed and had a lot more fun at events on other shards, than I had on Europa. For me there only been a few great events on Europa, while for others they might have liked them all. Game changes, player base changes and events changes. I'm sure when Europa gets the new EM that there will be more events for the Europa Players, with RP events, and history and such, but for the moment I would enjoy the events as just the fun they are.

    But I'm not here defending the game, the state of it or the EM, I'm just saying look at everything before you see it as its all wrong. I'm not even playing muh anymore myself.
    Yes the elections and such on Europa failed, no doubt. This is clearly a problem when shard does not have its own EM. I'm sorry for the ones that had high hopes of this, but I would wait until the shard gets the new EM.
    If you want answers about EMs go to Mesanna, give it some time, I guess a lot of players even declined becoming an EM, like it happens on other shards also. It is not that easy to find an EM that might suit Europa, like what works on other shards, might be totally wrong for Europa, because the majority is used to something else.
    If You want to see the event areas, no problem. Contact me on ICQ I will be happy to give you link to my screenshots.
     
  13. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    When was the last time somebody claimed back a soul stone from the graveyard? Maybe its time to let it go?
     
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  14. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    The point is... the public reaction has been largely negative, yet he forges ahead with converting it to his style, even though as he has stated, he is aware his replacement is already chosen. It's colossal arrogance. A true stand in would make high quality, but ethereal events that wouldn't make his replacement's position difficult... much less cause the amount of ill will and drama that is driving players away, like this thread has shown.

    Regarding the contract and wages; the company I worked at was closed a few months back. I'm not in full time now, and the position is indeed part time and low paid. But that's actually far worse, because the way UK benefits law works, it would have come in at under the minimum, so I'd have to declare it every week, it would be taken out of my benefits pound for pound, and as it's paid in US dollars the amount would fluctuate too. The reality is I wouldn't keep any of the money made, except for the first £5, but would massively increase the amount of jobcentre paperwork on top that I'd be expected to do... that's not the same as doing it for free, for the love of the game, as a hobby. Wages complicated it. What if you're a single mother working a part time job? The extra money coming in might (and might not, again currency fluctuation) push you out of the tax credit band based on income, a risk you can't afford to take with children. This should have been explained, if only to avoid people suddenly realising what they were getting in to.

    Right now, the game doesn't have the luxury of treating it's playerbase, and it's staff, so casually. A simple line of communication is all it would take to avoid the antagonism that's developed. Again, I know Mesanna is overworked. And yes, I've written to her myself... too little? Too much? It's impossible to know because there's little coming back.

    But if the players don't come back... well there'll always be other games you can move too to enjoy the item trading subgame. Always new profit to be made elsewhere, even as the market slowly moves away entirely to Soulbound items and from there, to micro-transactions where all the profit is being made by the company itself selling you the items directly. Microsoft and Sony may have stepped back from destroying the second hand market... for now... but they'll be back. Some of us with wider perspectives have said all along that, just like PKing and "farming the sheep", you're actually only really killing the geese that lay the golden eggs.

    And as for whether anyone has ever claimed a Soulstone back... does it matter, as long as returning players know someone is looking out for them in general, when they do return?

    Again, the short sightedness on display is staggering. You do want to keep playing this game, don't you? Then why be so cavalier about things that will keep it healthy? Is even a "well done mate" too much to pay for creating a healthy atmosphere for the game?
     
  15. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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    Frankly I'm disgusted at all the Borbarad bashing going on, especially from players regarded as upstanding members of the Europa community. Yes the town governors have had little impact in-game besides the buffs, but Europa is very much in a transitory period following the loss of our dedicated EMs so what do you really expect? Once we have a new EM the lines of communication can be solidified and they'll be able to be an integral part of building the community on Europa. Do you expect Borbarad to run governor programmes on two shards in his position as interim EM? ONE EM has stepped in to cover events for us, whilst working on their own shard (and storylines) at the same time. Be thankful we're getting any events at all, regardless of how poorly planned or lazy you consider them to be! As for the EM hall 'redecoration' - where are Borbarad's items in pride of place? I still see our collection of footwear, our plaques commemorating the Treasure Hunting event, not to mention Emile, Sarakan and Adris' jack o' lanterns and cakes. He knocked down a couple walls and renamed some books, how awful! He should take his underpaid overworked self straight back to Drachenfels am I right guys? Your complaints seem rather petty to be honest, if he was our permanent EM then perhaps I'd have a little more sympathy but as it is your vitriol is poorly directed and/or unnecessary.
     
    #15 Risso, Sep 2, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
  16. Jonathen

    Jonathen Sage
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    Getting a bit off topic guys, maybe start a separate thread? I can see that conversation dragging on for a while....
     
  17. Barian

    Barian Always Present
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    I can see that conversation getting the thread locked......:twak:
     
  18. Alaster The Insane

    Alaster The Insane Journeyman
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    Complaining about new players not staying after 2 weeks of playing is funny while event items go for 1 billion and people are defending this. One damn billion. How many decades does it take for someone starting nowadays ?
    I'm sorry, but i agree with Aron.
    Oh, sure, the interim place isn't that easy at all. He at least made events for us, took from his time to keep things going.And i'm really thankful for that. Sincerly.

    But god... i thought i was the mad one. Seems times are changing, you're right ET. But not at all in a good direction, according to me.

    I'll personnally (no one cares) see how things go when the EM situation will be settled, but as some people, i hardly want to log in, skipped last events cause "yeah, another pixel crack thing, let's play borderlands 2 instead...". Damnit. That money thing is totally ruining the little fun we still can have. Wake up guys. It's a game. Not a Wall Street simulation. A game. For fun. Damnit.

    I see coming the usual "but i have fun getting overpriced/overrated items, it's my playstyle !". Sorry, not mine, and will never be. It's one of the reasons i'm thinking about quitting UO, while i always claimed i'll be the last to turn of the light when UO closes. Cause yeah, those pixel crack things are driving our beloved MMO down that line. Those who not agree, in my humble opinion, are blind, or getting big profit of this situation.

    Don't kill the chicken who breeds golden eggs, they say in french. Well, that chicken is already without any feathers left, just a little push and it's good.

    The governor thing... at least, something was tried. Sure, the outcome could have had much more impact on europa life. It's the usual UO devs curse : "we start something awesome, and never finish it". Always been like that since i'm playing UO. Buffs been a good first step, but badaboom, the other things (asked or planned) never showed up. Oh, i'm also guilty on that one, i wanted to do an event in skara, but holidays, vacations... made it impossible for me. My bad.
    But yeah... even if it's not something totally changing the face of Europa, the offices for example. Nothing done.
    (in fact, i didn't even gave the ressources needed, in a "let's see how it turns first" move. My bad again)

    I'm bored. Bored yeah. Nothing moves, people argue about overrated and overpriced thing ruining the fun at the end, splitting good friends (what happened in my ally isn't nice to see at all), because even UO, the home i choosed, is plagued with that money madness. Even my heaven finally got infected with that (it was already, but not that far as what happened last weeks). I hardly want to log in.

    Even the pvp crap talk at prime time is funnier than that. At least, they have fun. While, during that time, we are all splitted by pixel crack, and people bad side getting out, motivated by poorly designed/thought decisions.

    I'm really getting tired of this.

    ET. The fun you have, they way you have it. I hate that. I hate what UO has become. It's a damn game. For fun. Lot of people, even good pals, seem to have forget that.

    For the soulstone graveyard... sorry, i can't. Have only one account, and don't plan to open / get another one. Since i'm not even sure to keep that one running...
     
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  19. janse311

    janse311 Visitor
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    When I returned to UO after a 8 year break I spend the first months on Europa where I have always played, but the inactivity almost made me quit again. Then I noticed that even on the European prime time Atlantic had more players online than Europa and I gave that shard a try, and glad i did. Ofcourse the EM events are important, but over there its still the community that makes it a great game. You dont need an EM to have events, players can organise sometimes even better ones. Was that not always the big thing about UO, the community?

    We have quite some events totaly run by players, and they are great fun, you dont need an EM for that. The governors do events promoting their own town, they meet up and create storylines that are being followed up between the towns, citizens actively participating and all without having the need of an EM. The only thing you need is good creative players and a generaly active player base, without that even EM's wont be able to make it fun
     
  20. Morgana of Monglow

    Morgana of Monglow Journeyman

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    TOTALLY agreed with Janse311. Well said !

    Items goes for billions....that's true. EM's aren't with us, still. And we complain against one Em who hae to take care on TWO shards.
    We complain for the "useless - at this stage - Governor thing". Well this's also true. But WHAT stop us to plan some events "homemade" ones ?
    Do i have to have the Office or some "powers" do plan an event ? Or I only need those citizens of the town where i'm suppose to serve for ?

    Talking about Moonglow : WHERE are they ? How many are they ? WHO'S with me to plan something ?

    Closing thisa thread instead to create a new one is a NO NO on my opinion. The thread started because Hotep's NOT happy ( like LOTS of us.. ) so, talking about REASONS who made Her unhappy IS ok. It's a closed circle.

    I asked several times what kind o' buff those lovely Moonglow citizens would like to have. Just one or two persons answered. Moonglow is DEAD ? Yes, IT IS !!

    I'm only a "plastic figurine" who "should" serve those players. But what I can do if noone popping in ?!

    Also, and i'm more than sure, not every player of Euripa read this lovely forum . This is the BIG mystake that LOADS of players usually do, it doesn't mean wich mmorpg they are playing .

    Proposal : let's do OUR OWN MEETING ! We, Governors, let's do one and let's TALK bout events WE can plan,sort etc etc. I'm sure, we can do something nice, with a nice storyline and so on. Governors are lovely persons, sure of that. So we CAN sort stuff by our own.

    Yes, we can !
     
  21. Minerva Foxglove

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    I wonder if the devs gave us this unfinished governour thing to see what we did of it. To let the people elect their candidates , hopefully whisely, and let them have influence about the future . Atleast that was my hope. Esp as it has been summer season , things has been a bit slow. I dont think we will know if it is success or failure this first round, it will take longer and maybe coming governours should not just discuss on their shard but brainstorm with governours and EMs on other shards?

    Im not running for any town but I claimed city loyalty with all my chars on Europa, 3 accounts , so I could vote in all towns with more than one candidate. I voted for people I thought could bring this program forward, people with visions. Im going to do the same this round.
    The governours seems frustrated they cant find their people , maybe more people did like me. Should I have voted just for Trinsic? I thought it was more important to vote for a good team of governours to interact with eachother and the EM than to just care about your home town. Atleast now in the beginnng.
     
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  22. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    I'm going to have a shot at the Britain Governor post again, since there are a couple of vague ideas I have that I'd like to try out, which would also involve other town governors if they fancied taking part ... just have to see who we have in office in a couple of weeks!
     
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  23. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Almost....http://www.uo.com/article/Publish-83-TC1-August-30th-2013

     
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  24. Jonathen

    Jonathen Sage
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    Just saw that myself DJ - guess we all knew something was coming, least now we know what and when
     
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  25. callum_fitzhugh

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    City Elections - I think its kind of indicative of UO since... well a long long time. Brilliant ideas, great imagination, wonderful concepts... which seem to get let down by the mechanics of the game or the inability of the overworked staff at EA to execute something "as planned". And yes maybe in the future it will rock our world.

    Yes maybe in the future UO will have full time staff dedicated to x, y and z issues.

    As to the EM program in general, with so many shards to deal with and manage and so many EMs to manage and so many events to approve/monitor/help set up then if you ask me it needs a full-time manager. Mesanna handles lots of other stuff in UO. Must be nigh impossible to handle the EM program as well.

    I feel for players like SHakkara who are looking to quit. But it honestly doesn't surprise me one bit. Theres a quote up there in the thread something like "I want to defend UO but its getting hard" - that about sums it up for me now.
     
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  26. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Whatever you do..make sure whoever takes it over is trustworthy and not going to use it for their own benefit...you'll be looking at close to 12 Million turn-in points..good luck
     
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  27. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    *Raises hand* I'll take over the soulstone graveyard!! :D
     
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  28. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Well the next publish will kill the project stone dead so for my money the one who has kept it going gets the hand-in points. Whatever they may be worth don't forget that points are capped at 10 million.
     
  29. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    You need not only an EM for that, but one that can willingly explain the limitations of the program so people can reasonably design within those. When we had Emile and Adris they would often respond with the actual guidelines which hindered some of the ideas I submitted. But the current Elections system was left extremely vague right from announcement, and the Devs who came to Stratics would not be drawn on what could realistically be done within it, which was foolish. Until the lines of communication open again, I think you're just going to see the same old ballot stuffing for prestige positions as before.

    Of course, there's nothing physically stopping people running their own events, but frankly the amount of Roleplayers who associate with a particular city is down to about 4-5 active engaged individuals, if that, and they all already know each other. The only way to get any larger participation is through global events now. The cities just don't have enough players any more, and those who do play long ago fractured into guild and friendship identities. Towns were not the way forward, unless people had an in game mechanism to connect with them. As it stands, it's roleplay is dependent upon individuals they may not like, and EMs they don't have.

    As for being petty, if you can't see how a hall used for the display of Triumphs for the players, a new one added once every year (if that) is suddenly being used to put up new items based around the EMs actions every week... which have been directly taken from past events and past EMs work ... after the events themselves have absolutely trashed both player engagement and community amongst those players, well... again, I don't think you've grasped where the last remaining heartbeat of the game is coming from. Heck, recent events even offended Alaster, and he's the biggest softie you can imagine.

    Still, there will be some good news. If a new EM has been chosen (keep on guessing if so) presumably Mesanna liked their ideas better than mine; or Shakarra's, because she wants to quit; so you can expect the EM to have some incredibly good ideas. Hopefully. If there's any genuine sense left in the wider corporate structure that is. And that's all we really want to see; UO taking control of it's own future and making people fall in love with it again.
     
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  30. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Sorry, she let it go as you previously suggested, so there's no benefit waiting for you today I'm afraid ;)
     
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  31. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Thanks for everyone that sent me kind words here and over ICQ.

    I think I'll give it 3 more months and hopefully one more period as governor - it would be only fair to give this new EM a chance and give the devs a chance to expand on this system. Going to give it my best as governor and try to engage the active players of Europa.

    Soulstone graveyard account will be active during this period too, but it would be nice to have someone on standby in case I decide to quit after these three months.
     
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  32. Morgana of Monglow

    Morgana of Monglow Journeyman

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    Hotep don't quit. Please.

    I'm just a bunch o' pixels afterall but...Europa can't loose players like you. Individually we fought for something on our beloved shard. Quitting now is a waste :(
     
  33. Alaster The Insane

    Alaster The Insane Journeyman
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    morgana... you are a bunch of grapes.
     
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  34. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    The waste bin in Luna will be ready on standby! ;)
     
  35. Abronsius

    Abronsius Visitor
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    I would just like to add that the problems with the election system will never cease while people hog two or even more positions at the same time. Especially when they barely manage to have any impact on even one of the cities they seek to represent. Such a situation turns the audience with the King into a farce. It leads to several cities rarely having a trade deal and to demands that will not be granted since the effort necessary would be too great for the developers.

    Not to mention that it blocks other interested people from getting an office.

    While this cannot be enforced for obvious reasons I would hope that those running/winning in multiple cities will only accept one of the offices. Not that I have very high hopes...
     
  36. callum_fitzhugh

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    This is a good point. The elections SHOULD be great for RP and to improve RP and I only wish we had the days back when the cities were full of role players [and others of course] and these things could have made a proper impact. Meetings with the King WITH official authority etc. This is a great opportunity of the dying days of UO to have a swansong as long as people try and act responsibly. [I just laughed out loud at that last comment myself] =)
     
  37. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    I don't think that this is a problem on Europa or any other low population shard. Half our cities only have ONE candidate that is even remotely interested in office. There are plenty of shards where cities don't even have governors...

    The main problem I have with the system is that there simply isn't enough dev action and EM attention available to make it work.

    Therefore, the system should be changed to work without devs and without an EM. TOOLS FOR THE SANDBOX! Give governors the means to lock down stuff in the city! Add plots in the city that governors can customize!
     
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  38. Faenwen

    Faenwen Journeyman
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    hello there,
    first of all.... i do understand that folks get upset over things not working the way they would like it to work.
    but.... why are they angry about an EM event and the way it is.... you don't like it? mail the EM a constructive review! We can be happy to have an EM!
    why complaining about folk who attend an event to get an item? its the thing they are interested in... get something sell it to someone who is willing to pay whatever. it makes them happy.... and the one who pays the billions is most likely happy to have it!
    what kind of event do you want? hunt event? roleplaying? scavenger hunt? plan something and write an email to the EM telling him, I would love to have an event like that!
    the best would be.... plan an event yourself and ask the EM for help! planing, organising an event is a lot of work. I know so because I made a few myself. All it needs is a lot of commitment!

    the governor thing.... I think the idea is great... it just needs time to sort things out til it works .... even on low populated shards!
    shakaras idea is great! let them lock down stuff in the cities and a little office would be a great idea with a book where folk can write down what they want and need! and the EM can check what the gouvernours do. when something goes wrong... they are able to stop it.
    still think the 2 million a week for the trade thing is too much especially on the low populated shards, but maybe they can work out something.

    and now .... UO gives you all those posibilities! you have all those other players you can do things with when you want to. you can be creative! I am not here to watch something, I am here because I can be active! I am the active one! I think some forget that its their doing their creativity their being here and active what makes the game what it is!
    Its all the different ideas and fantasies of players and their commitment what makes UO the game it is and why I love it and why I am still here!

    Just my 2 cents....
     
  39. Morgana of Monglow

    Morgana of Monglow Journeyman

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    Thumb UP for every single word !!