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List of possible Factions we face in the defence of the Realm

Discussion in 'UO White Stag Inn' started by Trebr Drab, Nov 21, 2010.

  1. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    It has been said that there are various factions behind the evils we face in our lands. I thought I might take a stab at them, in the hopes of making some sense of it all, and what we face as citizens of the Realm of Britannia, and the world of Sosaria. I'm placing some under others where I see a definitive and lasting connection.

    *I'd like to encourage debate and input here, that's what this is for.

    -Minax
    ----Orcs
    -Exodus
    -Shadowlords
    -Virtue Bane
    ----Bane Chosen
    ----Crimson Dragons (serving Virtue Bane? Not sure)
    -Ratmen
    -Trolls (Ga'thunk and Ga'splat, perhaps they just got caught up in events?)
    -FOA, Followers of Armageddon, once called the Zog Cabal.
    -Evil Mages and Executioners (not sure who they serve(d), of which Roberto and Frederick were ether a part of or acting as a conduit to with another
    -Ophidians(?)
    -Gargoyles(?)

    Blackthorn the juggernaut, I'm leaving him off the main list because he's dead, and his condition was akin to a madness. Yet he deserves a place here as a part of the history.
     
  2. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Do you mean ever? Or just currently active?

    And do you want to include threats to Felucca (for example, the Shadowlords Faction), or to Trammel only?

    My suggestion would be to include only non-player-controlled enemies to the Trammel map (i.e., to Queen Dawn's territory). For the sake of simplicity, and because I find the most value in your project to be outlining potential enemies in future event cycles.

    These are some of the current such potential threats I can think of. I make no claim that this list is anywhere near complete.

    Virtubane.
    (Still on the list, because he isn't dead yet, though obviously we are fighting him currently.)
    Virtuebane was, it seems, behind the ruin of Magincia, and now wants to prevent rebuilding there. Like his name suggests, he wants to undo Virtue itself.

    Exodus
    (Still alive, if inactive; "sleeping" is how Great Lakes's EM-fiction has described it.)
    Exodus's exact motives are unclear; he appears to simply have inherited a desire from his "mother" and "father" (Minax and Mondain) to conquer, destroy, and harm for the sake of conquering, destroying, and harming.

    If Exodus proves to be a machine like he did in Ultima 3, which seems likely, then that's a perfect motivation. Machines do what they are programmed to do, to the best of their ability. The "why" isn't terribly relevant, beyond the mere fact of their being programmed to do it.

    Minax
    Long ago we were told Minax was dead, but the source for this (the "Unshackled Demon" or "unshacked demon" currently still roaming Hythloth) was unreliable. We now know out-of-character that she's still alive and we can safely assume our characters have heard rumors of such. Her motives are about the same as Exodus's: She wants to conquer and hurt and destroy because that's what she does. (So far as I can tell.) Having been Mondain's lover since she was an obscenely, criminally young age, she's in essence been "programmed" by him like their foul "offspring," Exodus, was programmed.

    Until the first time we heard about the Crystal of Duplicity, recently, Minax was considered dormant, acting only through Travesty and through her Faction in Felucca. However, we now know that she was after the Crystal, and had a minion (Lt. Crag) actively pursuing information about it. Virtuebane and his forces fear, I think incorrectly, that she has the Crystal.


    Like I said earlier I make no pretense to this list being complete. And I think these were all on your first list too, I'm just adding detail.

    -Galen's player
     
  3. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
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    There are numerous antagonists. But some of them depend on the perspective and ethnicities of characters involved in the tale.

    For instance not all antagonists are 'Greater Evils' in the vein of Sauron of Lord of the Rings.

    The Shogunate of Zento is at War with the Hanzagiri Clan of (I believe) Homare Jima and 'the Black Thorne.' The former is a group of Nobles (Daimyo) who want to overthrow the Empress of Zento and place their own Hanzagiri Daizen on the Throne. (See Treasures of Tokuno Fiction.) The Black Thorne is a band of Assassins and Rogues. Thus a Samurai Character from Zento would be more concerned about the 'Evils' of the Hanzagiri than the distant Bane Chosen.

    Citizens of Luna would consider the Necromancers of Umbra an Antagonists. Necromancers of Umbra - by extension - would consider the Paladins of Luna as Antagonists.

    Old Fiction suggests that Necromancers were outlawed by British. You could infer a number of things with regards to Britannia's relationship to the Umbral.

    Papuans would consider the Ophidians a threat; but Virtue Bane and the Hanzagiri Clan are distant thoughts that do not concern their worldview.

    Then of course it can be infered - at least in some shard specific fiction - that smaller communities (e.g. Delucia, Luna, Player Townships) might sometimes consider Britannia the antagonists and 'encroaching superpower.'

    I interpret the lore as being much more complex than the 'Good Guys' in one corner and the Bad in another. Humans are much more ... complex than 'Good and Evil.' But as Galen suggested a list of the threats to Queen Dawn and Modern Britannia would be the most simple and relevant possible list.

    I would also include the Chaos Knighthood (Old Followers of Blackthorne) and the Chaos Legion (The Betrayers); but separately since the former is 'Chaotic Good' - but antagonistic to the Dogma of Lord British - while the other consists of traitors bent on conquering the world in the service of Exodus.
     
  4. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    -Minax
    Worrying to much about her mascara and minions with ridiculous names.

    -Orcs
    A 'meh' threat at worst. They seem to be mainly fodder.

    -Exodus
    Asleep in Ilshenar, but able to influence dreams (at least on GL)... I still think he's involved with the Bane.

    -Shadowlords
    "Dead" for now. But since you can't kill an idea...

    -Virtue Bane
    Ugh. Not really an 'enemy' in the cannon Ultimas, kind of a big-bad out of left field for UO. Though it is nice to see them giving us an enemy that is more or less UO specific. Sadly, this has been poorly introduced after nearly a year of meandering meh metafiction and will now be rushed through to ensure New Magincia comes out "soon."

    -Bane Chosen
    Unique to UO, which is nice. So little metafiction backstory to them that they aren't much more than cardboard window dressing. Even with the reveal in Virtue Bane, we still lack a credible motive for the attacks on the Ophidians or Meer. Far too many plot holes, with still no reason to care about them.

    -Crimson Dragons (serving Virtue Bane? Not sure)
    No sign of them, outside EM events (and even then they're used mainly for a different dragon body type). This ball was dropped right before the Shadowlords were defeated, don't expect it to be retrieved from under the sofa anytime soon.

    -Ratmen
    Not even a minor annoyance?

    -Trolls (Ga'thunk and Ga'splat, perhaps they just got caught up in events?)
    No, they are long dead.

    -FOA, Followers of Armageddon, once called the Zog Cabal.
    Another dropped ball under the sofa. However, since they have been rather disorganized they are about as scary as a vorpal dust bunny.

    -Evil Mages and Executioners (not sure who they serve(d), of which Roberto and Frederick were ether a part of or acting as a conduit to with another
    Meh. A dropped ball which is so old it has decayed.

    -Ophidians(?)
    Yet another dropped ball. Friendly to those who fought the Bane, agressive to those who didn't.

    -Gargoyles(?)
    Ter Mur = Allies Ver Lor Reg = Allies "Wild" Gargoyles = Agressive
     
  5. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    It's a good point that not all Orcs or Ratmen, or Gargoyles too, are under one umbrella. And this ties in well with the recent events that dealt with "racial" hatreds and all, as well as from the old books of the early age of enlightenment dealing with the subject.
     
  6. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Evil doesn't have to group up in racially, or even ideologically, consistent ways.

    Meaning that, for example, Virtuebane could send in some guys to the Orc Cave, enslave the orcs or persuade them to join his forces, and then throw them at us. Enough demons and I don't think it'd be that hard to do.

    For the next villain, assuming that we can defeat Virtuebane and the world does not end, even evil that does not pose an existential threat under most conditions could pose an existential threat in some conditions. Example 1: Trolls have posed such a threat at least sometimes. Example 2: Humanoid creatures from Despise launched an all-out assault on our capital city, assaults which proved extremely difficult to stop. Example 3: The Ophidians, united under a common goal, were able to simultaneously assault many cities, and attacked in an organized fashion.

    So, any of these enemies can pose an existential threat under the right conditions. The Ophidians are a great example. Probably evil, and surely Queen Dawn agrees (she told Zhah that explicitly), and we've had excellent reasons for thinking them evil over the years, yet they mostly don't pose an existential threat.

    But, then, a focusing event occurred for them: Ricardo stole their future, the Zenith Scion, and in short order they were able to organize and pose a major threat.

    My feeling is.....Let's make sure we can defeat Virtuebane and his Chosen before we worry about what the next threat might be.

    And let's remember, an enemy doesn't have to pose an existential threat for us to want to fight them. Sometimes just their being undeniably evil should be enough for us. The next scenario could just as easily be "hey, mysterious new items and undeniably evil monsters appearing in the Anti-Virtue Dungeons!"

    -Galen's player
     
  7. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Well, speaking of such things, what is truly evil and who are our enemies, and why...I have to wonder then....

    What about Daemons? Remember that it was Relvinian of the Maze (apparently a human mage) who enslaved Daemons to do menial labor for mankind. While not all of mankind was involved, or agreed with it, it must have appeared so to the Daemons of their plane of existence. Are they evil for considering mankind "evil" and warring against us?

    But then, lets consider this.
    -Relvinian enslaved Daemons, starting warfare between them and us perhaps?
    -Relvinian then disappeared.
    -Relvinian might be the same as Revlo, who met and assaulted Nystul, and seems to be part of some evil hive-mind, which reminds me somehow of both mazes and the underworld and the Abyss, but also makes me think of Shadowlords. Not just three Shadowlords, but all the Shadowlords of all the shards, together, and what I think must be the true face of evil.
    The Principle Pieces - Part I
    The Principle Pieces - Part II
    The Principle Pieces - Part III
    The Principle Pieces - Part IV

    And so I think of wars that are caused by outside forces working deceptive machinations to cause harm to us, to Sosaria, to our realms.
    And for a truly evil purpose.
     
  8. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Sure, Relvinian might be the same as Revlo, but he also might be the same as Lord British.

    Until now, I've never heard that so much as suggested. If it proved to be true I'd be very surprised, and if it happened I'd be willing to bet it was the result of a dev team member reading your post.

    There's worse things, really, than a dev team member reading a post and thinking "hey, that's a good idea!"

    As to good/evil in UO, more broadly.

    In UO, as in most fantasy environments, we have the virtue of absolute good and absolute evil. Demons are evil because they just are. They were evil long before Relvinian's stupidity (to call it madness gives it too much dignity). And they will be evil long after Relvinian's name is forgotten and the cities are but dust.

    There can be, and are, shades of gray in between those absolutes. But the existence of gray doesn't cancel out the existence of black and white.

    For the sake of roleplaying, we players often seem to like to ignore the black and white and see the entire in-game environment in shades of gray. I argue that we, and our characters, ignore black and white at our own peril.

    As players, I argue that ignoring the black and white is tantamount to ignoring other aspects of the in-game reality.

    And, for our characters, the dangers are perhaps even more obvious.

    One thing the current story arc could have done, had they handled certain things better, is to showcase the fact that gray doesn't cancel out black and white. In fact I think that's probably what they had in mind. The way evil sometimes exploits shades of gray to mislead us.

    I'm rambling, sorry. I hope my point(s) is(are) clear.

    -Galen's player
     
  9. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Aye, I know that the idea of Revlo being also Relvinian is open to debate and has no foundation. My only foundation is the combination of similar names and that strange etherial connection to mazes, the underworld, and the Shadowlords, with these "voices" I called a "hive mind" to top it off. A very loose foundation, I will readily admit.

    OOC: If the devs pick up on anything we say, yes, that's only good. But I have always had this feeling that there is a story under all of this, from day one. That story may have changed from time to time in it's presentation, but I still believe that it's core has always been there. Maybe not always put to use, but there anyways. Why else would the Black Necklace resurface, in the guise of "Mondain's Embrace", when there was absolutely no other backdrop, no other rhyme or reason at all for that to be thrown in? There was nothing going on about a necklace at all since those old days, until I posted the news story about it. Moreover, the same thing happened with Malabelle. She was part of the past, had no place in the current story arc at the time, until I posted that story that named her. Then she also suddenly turns up...dead, and then we hear something about her secret activity, which was not needed at all for the then-current story. I think they were filling in blanks based on that prime storyline underneath it all, and at the same time dropping us a hint without just revealing things to us.
    Few people will believe me though. Yet, there is no other reasoning that makes any sense at all.

    I agree completely with your black and white on the ends of the scales of gray. But I also have to remember that we once called the Gargoyles "demons". Some still do. So, while there seems to have always been this enmity between they (the Daemons) and us, I merely suggest that we may not know the entirety of "them", and we may be wrong. Or perhaps not.