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[Provocation] Logrus, is Inspire working for pets?

Discussion in 'UO Bard' started by Lord GOD(GOD), Nov 23, 2010.

  1. Could you please check that Inspire is working for pets. I've been trying to test it but honestly can't see any difference. For example I have 120 Music/Discord/Prov, using a fully trained Vollem and Inspire I should see a 19% SDI increase which should be quite noticeable. I tried the Vollem out on a Cu and Fireball regularly did 18-19 damage, on the same Cu with Inspire Fireball still did 18-19... if it was getting the correct bonus shouldn't it be around 22-23? Or was it never meant to work for pets?

    I remember testing when the Mastery's first came out a pack of Frenzied Ostards vs a Vorpal Bunny with the damage bonus and couldn't tell any difference with those either.

    I also can't see any difference in mana cost when I have two Vollems out with Inspire, compared to no followers with Inspire.
     
  2. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Should be working, I'll verify.
     
  3. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Yep I can confirm.
    Tested using Greater Dragon

    3 Minutes of Spells
    Flame Strike 38-41
    Explosion 31-34
    EBolt 31-33
    Harm 6-8
    Magic arrow 8 - 9
    Lighting 17-20
    Fireball 16 (For some reason the fireballs in both cases didnt seem to do a range of damage)
    Melee Damage
    131 - 181



    3 Minutes of Spells
    Inspire Activated @ giving 16 HCI, 16 SDI and 40% Dmg Increase
    Flame Strike 45-48
    Explosion 36-38
    Ebolt 35-38
    Lightning 20- 23
    Harm 7-9
    Fireball 18
    Magic arrow 9 - 11
    Melee Damage 142 - 195




    (Tested vs a 0 resist mob )
    Vs a 70's mob the lower end spells have ~1 dmg difference.
     
  4. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    The upkeep cost was drastically reduced with the last bard update.
    So you can probably have about 4-5 entities buffed before you notice an increase.
     
  5. Ok. Thank you.

    Not sure what was happening with my Vollems, I'll have to have another look, I just didn't want to waste time trying to cover the upkeep (of both abilities) if only one was working.

    Perhaps it was because the damage I was looking at was comparatively low, I also tested them vs Swoop which has high resists. I thought it would be inconsitant results vs something with low resists as it'd die quicker and respawn with different resists.
     
  6. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    i can see what you where talking about LG

    i use vollems too and i didnt see much difference.
    but it never really triggered in my head.

    then last night i was out turkey farming and i had a pack of pets on and cast the mastery and didnt notice much difference.
    granted it hard to keep up with the numbers when there are 5-7 of them flying off per second, and some of which where of course the damage being taken to the pets.

    but i cast it on.
    then off.
    then on.
    then off.

    i didnt notice much of a difference.
    but now seeing that a critter with high end resists.... like the turkey, you probablly arnt gonna see much of a difference.

    so makes sence.

    good to know its working though.

    i do recall last week while doing the pirate island peerless that my guildmates LOVED the insipire.
    they where on melee, i was playing bard support.
    they would not leave the area around me cause they loved the massive buff to their HCI and DI
     
  7. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    On a 4x bard that 16% will bump to 22, so you may notice it more there.
     
  8. Slim

    Slim Journeyman
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    Do the bard songs affect summons as well? Would be nice for EVs!
     
  9. I think they affect the ones you can control but not EV's.
     
  10. Slim

    Slim Journeyman
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    Awww bummer.
     
  11. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Inspire should apply to all followers, including EV's. (verified)
     
  12. Slim

    Slim Journeyman
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    Is this the case for all the bard songs minus the Disco songs?
     
  13. Ah yeah they do, you're quite right. I'd been using them the other day on some maps and didn't think it had, for Invigorate anyway, but it does.
     
  14. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    That's correct, all songs except the directed ones (discord songs) apply to the bard, party members, and the followers of the bard and party.
     
  15. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    Another thing here especially for the new targeting systems, is it possible to make EV's blue so that they are ignored by the nearest or next enemy target function, not if they are attacking or casted by reds only in Trammel?
     
  16. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Did you test only for spells ?

    What about the +16% Hit Chance Increase and the +40% Melee damage Increase ?

    I have been using a Greater Dragon against a Blackrock Golem and I saw no difference in the overall fight time.

    Doing it with the Inspire Bard Mastery on, did not shorten my fight time with a Greater Dragon against the Blackrock Golem thus hinting me that somehow, the bard Mastery might not be working in favour of the Greater Dragon.

    I mean, all 3 boosts, combined, should really make a visible difference when fighting the BlackRock Golem with a Greater Dragon and instead, I saw no change, pretty much.

    Can you please look into it ?

    Thank you very much.
     
  17. Zero Day

    Zero Day Guest

    I believe that the bard masteries apply their damage increase to the base damage.

    If you look at Logrus' post the melee damage of the greater drag increased from
    131 - 181
    to
    142 - 195


    Which is about 11-14
    So I guess that the base damage on that dragon was
    28 - 35


    If the blackrock golem has 70 Resists (I haven't lored one yet) thats a 3-4 damage increase per hit. Or 7% to 8% overall damage increase.

    And as Lord GOD had encountered previously if the resists of this one were different than the previous one, you may very well have been doing less damage to the second one.
     
  18. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    the gollums can have up to 85 i believe and I tried to explain this in another thread!
     
  19. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I did not notice the reference to melee damage, my understanding was that the test was only about spell damage. Good to know.

    Nonetheless, I do not understand how a 40% Melee Damage Increase can end up becoming about 8% .....

    Some math here is working weird.

    To me, a 40% boost should be a 40% boost.

    If the Greater Dragon was doing without the Inspire mastery 131 - 181 damage, with the bard mastery the damage should have become 131 +40% = 183.4 - 181 +40% = 253.4

    That is, from 131 - 181 it should have become 183 - 253 and not a mere 142 - 195.

    The Mastery is sold as a 40% boost but then turns out to be only a useless 8% boost ?

    Hallo ???
     
  20. Zero Day

    Zero Day Guest

    There are many ways in Uo to apply 40% Damage.

    There 40% Damage Increase and there's 140% Damage.


    A slayer weapon for example doesnt give you +100% damage. A slayer weapon gives you 2 x Damage.

    The difference is that if you are using a weapon with 18 -20 base damage and you have 50% Damage increase on the weapon 50% damage increase on jewelry 150 strength 120 tactics and 120 anatomy. You character will be hitting for damage range 72 - 80.

    If you use a slayer you get (72 - 80) x 2 which is 144 - 160.

    If you get say a 30% Bonus damage from lumberjacking or 20% from divine fury, thats a bonus based on your base damage of 18 -20 not your total factored damage of 72 - 80.

    So in the case of your greater dragon. With a base damage of 28 -35 which gets modified by strength and tactics, he gets 131-181. But the 40% Bonus from the bard mastery is calculated based on his base damage of 28 -35 which is 11- 14.

    Thats why when you use abilities which give you a damage bonus it depends on where it is calculated.

    If you were to take a character with as low as strength possible to wield a weapon and no tactics on TC, and use inspire to give him 40% damage increase, he would get exactly the same damage increase as a character with 150 strength 120 tactics and 120 anatomy.

    so in the case of Logrus' greater dragon.
    He has a base damage of 28 - 35
    After all his bonuses are factored in his output is 131 - 181
    Or about 350% Bonus damage to his base
    So adding a further 40% damage to the current output of 450% (100% + 350%) means he gets a 40% bonus added to 450 = 490

    Or 40/450 additional damage which is just about 8%
     
  21. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Thank you very much for the well presented and clear explaination.

    Though, it is depressing to realize that the thought +40% boost ends up being infact only a mere +8% boost......

    I can well understand now why so many think why bother with bard masteries for a tamer.

    I mean, spend 240 skill points, invest in an expensive suit which keeps mana up to maintain the mastery active all for merely an 8% boost in damage ?

    No thanks. It really is not worth it then, better spend the 240 skill points and millions of gold elsewhere.

    Out of curiosity, does it work the same for a Sampire (I mean the +40% ending up being only a +8% damage increase) or what would the boost actually be in the case of a Sampire ?

    Just trying to see here if the Sampire gets again the largest slice of the pie......
     
  22. A sampire would already be at the cap for both DI and HCI so would receive no bonus.
     
  23. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Thank you for the quick reply.

    So, the bard mastery would not help most melee fighters, not much pets.

    Can I then ask why they were designed and brought to the game if most players are going to neglect and not use them then ??

    Why spend time developing something which players cannot find much effective use for ?
     
  24. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    The masteries are very effective. You are simply mismatching a pet's damage (dragon is 100% Physical Damage) to the target's highest resist (Blackrock Golem's Physical resist is 80%-85%). If you do this you will consistantly see less effect. Try using a pet that target's the golem's lowest resists of cold and energy.

    Think of it this way: 40% of 10 is 4, while 40% of 100 is 40.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  25. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    cu works well
     
  26. Pets do not have any DI to start with, so it still helps them.

    I believe one of the original statements from the devs regarding the implementation of the masterys were that they would rather implement them underpowered and work up, than overpowered and have to nerf them. So they did the former and now they've been forgotten about.

    Though, the other posters are not wrong in saying play to the targets weakest resist, but there will be fights where things don't have a weakest resist, in which case, yes, they are largely useless.
     
  27. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    I would not say they are useless, but I do agree that there are times where your mana can be better spent elsewhere. The masteries are all different enough from one another, that I can usually find 1 or 2 that are a good fit. They are especially strong if you hunt in a group that plans to use them ahead of time, so they are used to achieve property caps and not entirely wasted. That allows you more versatility in your template.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  28. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    Only if a Cu Sidhe hits for Cold and Energy. :mf_prop:

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  29. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    bards are really designed to be group players if you take a small increase of say 10% and spread that over a group of players it can make a big difference
     
  30. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    LoL
     
  31. Zero Day

    Zero Day Guest

    Sampires are already Max HCI from lightning strike and usually already at max DI so inspire doesnt help them that much.

    But for any high end mobs which are usually running fighting skill ranges 90-130 vs a well trained greater dragon the best you can hope for when they are equal skill is a 50/50 hit chance.

    So yeh you only get a 8% damage increase in the worst case scenario, but I'd say hitting an extra 5-10% more in addition to that also counts.
     
  32. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The problem is, as in regards to tamers, that contrary to what melee or ranged characters can do, which is use a 100% damage weapon or simply cast consecrate weapon a go go to hit the target weak spot, tamers cannot do this.

    Not only they have to go with whatever set up the pet has for damage but there is no "consecrate weapon" equivalent for Tamers whereas a tamer could use the pet's strongest damage output to hit the target's weakest spot.

    Melee characters and archers/throwers can well do it, tamers cannot.

    Perhaps a tamers' friendly Bard Mastery that could do this would have been much welcomed.

    The problem is even worse for tamers since the variety of damage done from tameable pets is very limited. For example, in the case of fighting Blackrock Golems weak to cold, even a White Wyrn only does 50% cold and 50% physical so, using a White Wyrm rather than a Greater Dragon would not much change the situation.

    We need a "consecrate weapon" Bard mastery for tamers then ?
     
  33. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    Tamers can do this by selection of a different pet. There are several tough pet's out there that do not do 100% Physical Damage (and some do no physical damage at all). Here is a link for: All Tameable Creatures. Browse through them to see which animals can do what type of damage type. Some of them that come to mind that have a mix of damage types are (in no particular order): Rune Beetle, Dread Warhorse, Nightmare, Bane Dragon, and Cu Sidhe.

    I don't think a Consecrate Weapon ability for pet's is a good power to include. It would greatly imbalance pets as they would become much more powerful. There are some things that only players should be able to do, and this is one of them. If you could Consecrate Weapon as pet's damage, then the only two pets you would ever need to choose from are a greater dragon (for its massive ammount of hit points) or a pack of frenzied ostards (for its massive damage output, which will quicly grow out of hand being consecrated). Let me give you a quick example. The resist for a Cu Sidhe go in this order (from high to low) is Cold/Energy, Physical, Poison, and Fire. If you want to see the effects of how fast you can kill a creature, targeting its lowest resist, fight a paragon Cu Sidhe with a trained Cu Sidhe (which targets the highest resist for damage) and then fight another paragon Cu Sidhe with a traind pack of Hell Hounds (80% Fire, 20% Physical). It is a sight to see. Now picture that on every monster in the game, all the time, everywhere you go. You can kiss challenge goodbye.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  34. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I prefer as better this link UO Stratics - Hunter's Guide - Search

    Sure, it is not limited to tameables only but oh well....

    Looking for a Cold Damage pet ? Check the box for cold, press the search button and up comes the list of all creatures who do cold damage within which one can locate the best pet for the task.....

    The thing is, that there is not many pets out there (variety is scarce...) with a strongness in a specific damage type other then physical...

    For example, the best cold damaging pets available are the White Wyrm and the Cu Sidhe which are only a 50% cold pet....
     
  35. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Using a barb as a secondary char IMO the only effective spell is:
    Resilience: Bonus to all regens, Poison Resistance, Curse Duration Reduction
    The regen means more mana for casters, more stamina for fighters and a nice almost 1hp per second regen rate.
    Quicker curing of poison, faster removal of bleed (for those without healing) less paralysis duration, corpse skin, evil omen, blood oath etc.

    I run my sammy in wraith form spamming AI's and heal with the bard. The poison cure works at the same time rate as vamp form and allows me to basicly kill anything I fancy doing so to. Sadly, like others have said, if your DI capped you will see no bonus at all.

    GL popps.

    Oh, if your in fel and a guildly casts a EV or a RC you go grey and could be promply flagged by casted thing....this makes for good fun.
     
  36. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    Since the Cu Sidhe and WW deal 50% cold damage, then look at how the rest of their damage is distributed, as they are different. The Cu Sidhe does 50/50 cold and energy, where as the WW does 50/50 Physical/Cold. Choose your pet by how the total damage distribution matches up to the target's resist.

    I would not go so far to say the selection of non-physical damage pets is scarce. I think there is an adequate number to alllow tamers to choose from. Tamers need to make a choice as to what to use, there should never be a "magic bullet pet" which is perfect for each situation. Cold resist is by far the lowest average resist in the game, so it seems to make sense that there are no too many cold damaging pets,

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  37. If you have Spellweaving, or can stone it in, you can also charm certain ones with Dryad Allure, such as the Arctic Ogre Lord.
     
  38. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    Good Idea. I always forget about Dryad Allure.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  39. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Meh, make a sampire. Build perfect weapons and tank everything.