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Loose Gold?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Blood Ghoul, Aug 20, 2014.

  1. Blood Ghoul

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    This morning I awoke and decided to go do some killing and since I am a recent user of Pinco's I noticed how it organized the monster's loot with the gold pile first. It had me thinking about when was the actual last time I looted a pile of gold with the purpose of increasing my bank balance... I don't know, maybe 10 years ago or something.

    While I have had several billion pass through my hands all of the gold has come from the selling of artifacts, scrolls and rares. It does not come from the actual looting of gold piles. Inflation has basically driven the value of loose gold to nothing. Since at about 60k it reaches a weight issue, or the max a stack can be, you either need to recall to the bank or use a bag of sending charge. Both are worth far more than worrying about looting loose gold.

    The problem comes down to the weight of the gold and the inflation of the economy.

    Since there is no desire to ever give us checks larger than 1 million what would be the harm in allowing loose gold to stack to 1 million, with about the same weight as a 60k stack now? This would allow enough value in a "stack" to either use a bag of sending charge or recall to the bank.

    Anyone have any different thoughts or ideas?

    Blood Ghoul
     
  2. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    from an economic standpoint, not being able to effectively loot gold is a good thing. cuts down on further inflation.
     
  3. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    looting gold form monsters....wow...the good olde dayz...
     
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  4. Swt Lippy Hippy

    Swt Lippy Hippy Adventurer

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    I still loot from monsters. I also still do the escort quests for 500 gold.
     
  5. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Holds breath till new money system suggested by the Dark Lady and Code Mages is put into the game. There are no needed fixes and more usefull goldsinks are needed.

    EC grid always puts the gold first. Noticed only the champ boss loot has refinements and gold last. Or that is from the ancient CC users suffling stufff before I get to the corpse. Tmap chest in EC grid has the gold first and then recipes and/or SoA. Then refinements and specials. Of the loot gear the best stuff is in the first few lines. Gems and scrolls are grouped in EC also. There has always been an order of loot generated and how it goes in the container. How many times have you speed opened a corpse and seen the bard instrument being added/appear?
     
  6. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Malag hasn't looted gold in years. As an archer he just doesn't have any room for gold. It's too heavy. He does loot all gems. They are worth more than gold and weigh much less.

    Many of my character do loot gold. But Malag doesn't. After carrying 3 quivers for arrows and bolt about a dozen bows and 200+ bandages he just can't afford to pick up gold. about 1k in gold and he's overweight. So I never pick it up anymore on him. Even with the weight reduction on quivers arrows weigh quite a bit. Mages no longer carry reagents and they are only subject to mana... when it comes to keeping up a fight. Dexers never lose their weapons.. and often don't have a huge weight problem. Mages almost never have a weight issue. Same goes for Tamers. They can go all day and hunt but an archer runs out of arrows and you are done. Not cool if you are down doing 3 or 4 runs of something other than say Medusa since I generally get more arrows back than I use when fighting her... but if I'm going to go do 4 or 5 of the styngian dragon or Lady M or something there is a danger of running low on arrows. Anyway...

    Having built many characters on other shards where I honestly don't have 2 coins to rub together I can say that looting gold is a big deal for me. Fortunately I use the EC so everything is nice and neat and I can loot things in nothing flat.

    I'm all for gold going to a number... Not sure how that's going to go. If it will be per account, per character..... how you transfer gold from one char to another.. etc. Often wondered. And for me personally I love to deco... so I'm very much hoping I'll still have gold coins to deco with. But it would seriously make my day if when I opened a corpse the gold was auto deposited into my funds.
     
  7. Malee

    Malee Journeyman
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    Same here! Now this is real sad I suppose but - I also get the gold off of the mongbats and rats I accidentally kill as I pass by them.
     
  8. hamburger

    hamburger Journeyman
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    At the current level of gold in circulation, gold should auto bank upon a kill (no looting, kind of like points). Would be fun to see how fast a sampire can accumulate gold whirlwinding champ spawns.

    Also they should link bank accounts amongst characters on the same shard (i.e. one bank box for all of you chars on a shard with the item limit being the cumulative max total based on upgrades and chars created).
     
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  9. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    gold should be removed from monsters. theres enough gold we dont need anymore.
     
  10. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    :twak:
     
  11. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Ditto for me as well. I will hit my 10-year anniversary playing UO later this year and some days I feel like I must be playing an entirely different game from the one many other people who post here are apparently playing. I always loot gold, small gems, regs that are in piles of 5 or more, magery/necro scrolls, "clean" jewelry that I can imbue with additional properties, skeletons and skeletal parts that I can cut into bones, ingots, any kind of leather other than plain, scales, peculiar seeds, and maybe even some other stuff I can't think of at the moment.

    I have characters on every single shard, many still "in development." I enjoy working them up from scratch and trying to make each character as self-sufficient/self-supporting as possible. But, try as I might, I can't seem to ever get the total amount of gold they all hold to go over the 120 million mark. I guess I am still spending too much of it on things like galleons (got the crazy idea to GM fishing on a few more of them) and then there are power scrolls to buy once in a while and of course buying amber and citrine to train imbuing adds up after a while too!

    I've had a little shop on Balhae for about 8 months now and by my rough calculations, I think it's brought in maybe 8 million gold in that time, but I estimate about 31% of that, roughly, has gone to vendor fees. I think I've spent maybe 1 million gold off one of the vendors to replenish my artificer's gem supply, but that's it. There's really nothing to buy on that shard and I don't have any way to move the gold off the shard, even if I wanted to, unless I pay EA for transfer tokens.

    I've tried putting up a vendor on Atlantic to sell a few things, even after vendor search came out, but after no sales in a week, I took the vendor down because all I was doing was watching the gold I put on to cover the vendor fees dribble away one day at a time. I've tried selling stuff in general chat on Atlantic a time or two as well (some of those compassion dyes we got and a holiday item with EM Bennu's name on it), but that was pointless as well because my characters are unknown. Didn't even get one response in GC when I tried it those times.

    I don't have vendors on other shards because most of my houses on various shards are in Felucca and I just don't think people will go there to buy stuff. So even though I have completed crafters on several shards who could make stuff that maybe new/returning players might want, couldn't even sell it because it would just be another experiment in watching my gold dribble away in vendor fees. And no, I don't want to go looking for someone to rent me vendors and then charge me ridiculous fees in the process.

    I also don't make any real gold from doing BODs because I don't use scripts to mine. I'm luck if I ever have more than 2 or 3k of iron ingots on any one shard and a similar amount of dull and shadow ingots to get the occasional jar of PoF. Same for tailoring BODs. Just don't have the supplies to do them in large quantities and hope to make anything from it.

    When I read posts on here by people saying things like stop dropping gold on monsters, I just cringe. If that is the general consensus among the people whom the devs seem to listen to, I really wonder why even bother continuing to play, "investing" more time and money into UO. There's no way I could continue to play and enjoy UO if I had to resort to "making gold" by selling items received as drops or by doing the "buy low/sell high" thing or by figuring out how to do IDOCs and hoping to sell stuff obtained from them.

    I may be just a below-average player, but heck, I enjoy UO enough to pay for multiple accounts each month. I hope that in the long run, people like me who maybe fly under the radar and aren't out doing EM events and/or rubbing elbows with game staff in various ways and who aren't playing UO as a way to earn a real life living do count for something and that the simple, basic, and I suppose "pathetic" ways we find to enjoy ourselves aren't overlooked, discounted, and thrown out the window just to appease other players who have had the good fortune and I suppose the brains to make more gold in UO than some of us would ever see even after playing 20-25 years.

    *Jumps off soapbox.*
     
  12. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I still loot monsters. I'm not a mega trader and don't play to sell stuff. I just play to enjoy the game. Making a 1 million check is still a big deal to me.
     
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  13. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    Leave the gold alone, please. I don't' have billions in the bank. I do currently hunt just for gold so I can go out to buy some new special item. If gold went into the bank upon a kill, I'd be fine with that cahnge, but don't think even that is necessary.

    But, don't take the gold drops away from us poor folks, just because the Richie Rich's don't want to be othered with it.
     
    #13 Winter, Aug 20, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
  14. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah me too. Loot it all if I can carry it. I can still strongly remember the days of walking server lines to pick up regs cause thats where they seemed to accumulate. But then, I am an old schooler, I don't have a ninja or a sampire or thrower or mystic. I like the old ways for the most part
     
  15. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    npc self supporting gold system would be much better.

    buy things like glacial dyes and stuff, deco stuff (maybe requiring a loyalty) - huge gold sink @50 - 1billion gold depending on item. Bod stuff too (crazy bod people pls dont freek) like barbed kits / runic mallets, stuff we get the majority of from script account anyways.

    Then take out all gold from loot tables, but allow items (regular loot) to be sold to npcs for decent prices. say 20k for a junk bracelet, 500k for a semi-rare stealable. Probaly put a limit of some kind so it couldnt be abused (say 1million gold per character per day or something)

    This would allow newer (or old but poor) players to make gold thru hunting (via selling junk to npcs) but not put any more gold into the system.
     
  16. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I loot gold to increase my bank balance. I loot gold of of pretty much anything I kill, cept like mongbats.

    Then again, I have like 500k to my name right now, and the most I have ever had was like 20m, which I got by chance when all of my old advance character tokens became useable on siege, and I sold them, which has since been frittered away on penny whistles and moon pies.
    Usually have 1m or less.
     
  17. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Gold ought to be, not wiped but reduced, game wide, honestly.
     
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  18. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    No. Just no valid reason to do that.
     
  19. SoftServeDreams

    SoftServeDreams Journeyman
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    I played a MMORPG years ago where gold became no-value, after reaching certain level people don't care about gold because all high-end items were traded by barter (item to item). I believe this was the result of Dev's poor operation and handling of in-game gold and items. UO still keeps the value of gold and the economy has never been totally broken after all these years of operation which I think is great and almost amazing.

    I also remember a console game where you can have a "gold-eating bug" in your house. The bug looks like a small ugly monster and only thing it does is just eat gold, you enter the amount and it eats gold from your deposit. It gets bigger in size as you feed it, and that's it, that's all you get, a big ugly monster in your house, solely for the purpose of gold sink...lol.

    I don't loot gold at all, I'd love to if prices are dropped to 1/10 or so...and I love the sound when I drag gold piles and drop it in my backpack...
     
  20. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    Replace all gold it with a new system (platinum,silver,bronze or something to that effect) that would be the first step in fixing the economy. To be fair so that people have a chance to spend there gold give them a date 1/1/2015 or something in order to give them ample time to spend there gold on. They will need to put a NPC system in that allows us to buy directly from npcs and have a lot of new items/deco and charge decent prices for these items 10m-5b. Once that date hits all gold is useless and the new system is in place. Monsters stop dropping gold after this date, NPC's/Vendors stop using gold after this date. Leave the new Item/Deco NPC's around so that people can always unload there "old" gold. They have dealt with a ton of dupers/duped items now it's time to tackle the gold problem.
     
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  21. Troop

    Troop Sage
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    I'm broke so if I find a coin or two anywhere it makes me happy. I never could figure out how to get filthy rich.
     
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  22. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    There absolutely is. Gold is worthless, there's a higher amount than ever with a lower playerbase than ever, I'm sure a lot of it was gotten through questionable means, there's no reason for anyone to have a BILLION gold in this game. Global reduction of gold would keep everyone relatively the same amount of wealth but with less currency.
     
  23. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
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    I don't PVM often, But when I do, I Loot.

    *Tips a glass of Good Old Moonglow Red in your Direction*
     
  24. Victim of Siege

    Victim of Siege Crazed Zealot
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    *hopes Ikichet will share the moon pies*
     
  25. Blood Ghoul

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    Well... I guess its just me then. Maybe we hunt in different ways but I do not return to the bank from Doom, Abyss, a Champ, or even Blackthorns for 60k. Which weighs 300 stones if I am correct.

    I was not asking for them to get rid of gold.. Just increase the stack size to a million and leave the weight at 300 stones a stack, so it's worth picking up.. So even if you like to kill mongbats for 12 gold a pop it will not impact you.. Heck you can kill about 83,000 of them before you reach a full stack.

    Blood Ghoul
     
  26. Yadd of Legends

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    I guess I still play UO like an old-time RPG - kill and loot and make better armor and weapons to kill and loot some more
    I can see your point about a 60k stack max being a bit outdated nowadays - although sending bags and powders are pretty easy to get from the ant quests
    I've sent 100s of thousands in gold from miasmas to the bank with sending bags - I'd have no objection to bigger stacks of gold for the same weight - although 60k gold is still a big deal for me, so I'd probably still send smaller stacks back to the bank anyway rather thank risk losing it
     
  27. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I mean I never return to the bank for gold deposits. That's what the BoS is for. They lowered gold weight substantially a few years ago as well.
     
  28. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Long gone buddy, sorry. :(

    You know my moonpie addiction issues.
     
  29. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    They should just implement a gold number in bank rather than using gold as a physical item. Then do a one time post implementation game wide gold wipe so no one could hoard away gold in their houses, then move the decimal over x places on everyone's bank balance, and give all future gold drops the same sized reduction.

    Then you loot gold like normal, you can use it as deco or even hoard it if you want to waste house space, but once you drop it in the bank it becomes a number.

    Really you don't need to adjust the value of currency once there is a nonphysical system in play, but its just nicer to see prices in the 10's of millions rather than the 100's.

    That doesn't fix "the economy" but it does fix the only real problem inflation causes, that being simple transfer logistics.
     
  30. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    Funny you made this post I was thinking about that this week too...

    I don't loot gold anymore either...

    I myself found that odd... so I started carrying a bag of sending again... and am forcing myself to.

    I recalled into Haven the other day to find some new players grouping up... they asked me if I wanted to go...

    I could not say no... and spent the next two hours killing in haven dungeon...

    I had them party me so they could loot... and guess what every monster was looted... really brought me back... and not just gold .... everything was looted. They were making trips to the bank...

    Awesome experience.
     
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  31. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    I've always thought they should reduce gold amounts without actually decreasing its value determined by the economy. for example they could make a patch that turns all 1 million checks into 100k checks and reduce all money stored on vendors by 90%. This way the actual value of gold is the exact same since the patch affects everyone, but people no longer have to deal with the endless storage of 1 million checks and the risk of being scammed while buying items that are more than 175 million. The in game economy would not be hurt either, people with vendors would simply reduce the price they sell things for by 90%. It might even give people a reason to pick up the gold on monster corpses, the 1k from dragons would become a real way to make money for new players, every 100 dragons would be 100k, the equivalent of 1 million gold right now. It seems like a very fair way to give new players a chance in the game, kill a few thousand dragons, buy a crimson cincture, kill a few thousand, buy a slither, etc.

    Just my 2 cents :)
     
    #31 Captn Norrington, Aug 21, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
  32. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I fully support that happening, although the amount of gold dropped from loot should be decreased as well, by a lesser proportion.
     
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  33. whiterabbit

    whiterabbit Stratics Legend
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    IS THIS FROM OBAMA?
     
  34. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    You can't devalue currency and leave currency influx unaltered. It would undermine your deflation attempts directly (gold would pile up at the same rate it does now) and indirectly will just make everyone feel as if they had simply lost a lot of value out of their bank box.

    In your example you claim someone would sell a crimmy for 100k. Why? What would be harder? Killing 100 dragons (heck or 1000 even) or any of the far easier gold faucets, or getting the rare drop? So why would you trade a hard to get item for a simple to get sum of gold? You wouldn't.

    Rare item's wouldn't lose their relative value unless all currency devalued.

    You would probably just barter rare items for other rare items, or some other valuable stackable would become the new defacto currency, like relic frags or something, or continue to price it very high and wait for the prices to stabilize somewhat.
    That all just makes the economic system less flexible, and logistical economic flexibility is the whole reason we have the idea of currency.

    You would have to alter the influx of gold as well as the amount of currency to have a seamless transition, and of course that transition wouldn't really effect game play at all, or how easy it is to get "rare" items it would just be less checks you need to put in a window. The only way to make rare items less valuable is to make them less rare, the market will always get as much as it can for anything, and if it's rare, it will be worth a lot.

    Inflation of course isn't really a functional problem in a fictional world (it's certainly the least important element of the "economy")... except for the fact that it's hard to deal with big price tag sales. In other words it's ugly not bad. I agree that we SHOULD deflate gold, simply because gold is hard to deal with now, and such high priced items probably seem daunting to new players, I am sure.
     
    #34 Uvtha, Aug 21, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
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  35. Swt Lippy Hippy

    Swt Lippy Hippy Adventurer

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    Mr babbling loonie ... lol That dog better not hunt. Maybe YOU don't need gold. But I know alot of us do. I just had a player ask me what monster to go fight to build up some gold. This was yesterday. You must have some Richie Rich friends that helped you along the way, to not need that type of gold. (won't ask who they are) lol As always tho, enjoy reading your posts. Thanks for your opinion!
     
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  36. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    I think anyone with a billion gold on a vendor should just have the vendor wiped with all its gold. That should take care of about 90% of inflation worries and not harm us poor folks.

    Think of it as a tax on the rich. :devil:
     
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  37. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    honestly ive never had any "help" with gold. never bought gold. never been given gold. I suggested an item based loot system where you sell the items for gold because even as it is, you dont make gold from actually looting it.

    It was more something fun to think about it, i doubt it would actually happen. (although i do think 50mil - 5bil deco / dye / mount gold sinks would be a very good idea)

    So yeah, bottom line is no one will ever make more than pocketchange from actual looting. Its fun to hear the chi-chink of the coins but thats about it.

    I didnt have any gold to speak of until around 2004. (i didnt really play 2000-2004 cuase i was in college)

    Then i started to sell arrows to npcs. Arrows are much more valuable than gold. I looted arrows off ratmen, and even bought arrows from low npcs and sold to high npcs. You can make about 100k in 20mins right now with the 5k start-up gold by buy/sell arrows to npcs. ive done this on several servers in the past few years just for some startup gold to buy some cheap things.

    And i of course sold weapons/jewels. at the time swoops dropped good loot.

    Bottom line is, substantial gold isnt made from looting it, but there are a multitude of ways to make gold in UO. far more than there was even when i started out selling arrows to npcs.

    Oh P.S. The dog does hunt, he hunts cute black and white puppies and eats them! muhahaha :devil:
     
    #37 Smoot, Aug 21, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
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  38. Herman

    Herman Seasoned Veteran
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    I would like to see all monsters dropp PLatinum coins they would be the same value as gold coins 1/1 when you buy stuff from an npc the only difference would be that you could toggle your own vendors to only accept platinum coins or accept both gold and platinum coins

    Could be an intresting experiment to see what would happen


    I know my vendors would never accept filthy gold coins hehe
     
  39. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    What are you doing when you make new characters in order to start them out with 5k in start-up gold? I always only get 1k.
     
  40. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    majik. no sorry, i just forgot it was 1k i guess.
     
  41. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I think the problem now is more the large amount of gold ALREADY in the game rather than new gold being accumulated... I could be wrong I admit but I'd bet very very few non-scripting players accumulate a significant (relative to the gold that's IN the game) amount of gold from looting it.
     
  42. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    blah blah blah...last 4 or 5 EM events ive done there was 100s of monsters with 1000s...nay 10,000 gold on the corpse... a newbie with a bag of sending would have picked 250-500k on the night....********!!
     
  43. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    That absolutely IS the problem, but the ease of getting gold also absolutely would effect prices.
    I would also agree that people who are uber rich got so by buying/selling expensive things to lots of people who farmed gold. Thousands of people bringing hundreds of thousands of GP in to the system adds up, and then people sell valuable items en masse to conglomerate that wealth the way we see it today with a small percentage of people having such large amounts of the wealth.
    I think a lot of people seem to think that if we simply move the decimal that we wont have the relatively uber rich any more, and that rare items will become easier to afford, but we will, and they won't. There will always be those who have a ton of money, and rare items will always be hard to purchase... unless you make them less rare.

    Cutting the gold in bank boxes but not on monsters just means it will take a while for people to figure out what "expensive" is again. From that point that definition would just inflate along with currency.

    The ONLY thing that deflating money does for the game is it makes money easier to deal with. That and make prices look nicer. Those are important things, but they don't really effect game play all that much.
     
  44. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    You know, someone asked a question to the devs on GL's meet & greet a couple weeks ago, about crafting a base resist piece for imbuing/reforging, something that would allow the crafter to choose where to add the exceptional & arms-lore bonus resistances to the base armor piece.

    Apologies to the person who asked this question, I do not remember who it was, it was a great question though! (I wonder where the transcript is for that GL M&G?)

    It would be nice to allow crafting like this, but Imo it should be a gold sink, Say you want the perfect base piece:
    you need resists on an exceptional leather tunic to be as follows 2/10/3/10/10 with no mods (35 total - pre imbued/enhanced/reforged), it could take an insane amount of leather & time to get this piece, crafting piece after piece to get specific resistances like that, or you could be the luckiest person in UO and get it in a few attempts.

    Allow a smith/tailor/carpenter/stoneworker to sell a special crafting tool with say 5-10 charges maybe at 50k gold per charge that would allow you to select your base resists to be applied to whichever resistance types you wanted them in.

    Also, I still loot the gold from mobs, but it does depend on where I'm farming and if it's worth it. pretty much anything that drops 800+ gold per kill & at champ spawns (after the champ dies sometimes) I'd have a lot more gold if I looted every spawn I've done/raided. I don't loot goldz in Doom I don't loot gold anywhere If I don't have a BoS on me, (thankfully you don't need to loot the insurance gold in pvp (direct deposit OP!).
     
    #44 CovenantX, Aug 21, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
    Swt Lippy Hippy likes this.
  45. Rieley

    Rieley Journeyman
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    Actually I played an online game where they wiped the gold. We still had our skills, inventory, houses. It was the best thing ever, I don't know anyone that was upset once the gold was wiped. It was great.
     
  46. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    Many of us, me included, have only a few millions. Do you really believe those that have billions of gold wouldn't be upset to lose everything in a gold wipe? Good luck with that.
     
  47. Packrat22

    Packrat22 Adventurer
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    how about just stackable checks?
     
  48. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Id be fine with a gold wipe. i dont hoard gold tho i usually have 1billion or less. to me value is held in rares and combat items. yes, the people with 50bil plus would probably be upset tho, and most large transactions would probably move even more to cash rather than gold.
     
  49. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    And this is (part of) what's wrong with this game.
     
  50. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    you are absolutely right. but unfortunately a game pushing 20 years, where a 40 year old is more common than a 14 year old its only to be expected. Many of the freeshards have a much "fresher" feeling. A 20 year old game that concentrates on keeping loyal vets and past players rather than adapting to attract a fresh modern playerbase is bound to be filled with decade old "dug in" players rather than fresh start players getting excited over a pile of gold off the latest kill.