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Loot, less would be better.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by imported_Splup, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. I would like to hear your opinions on this, cause this has been bothering me for some time.

    Why monsters have to drop sooo much loot? Tons and tons of items to go through of which 99,5% is crap and mad monster spawnrate. My wrist is braking trying to check all the items on corpses and trying to fight at the same time.

    Problem is mostly on high end monsters.

    Imho high end monsters should drop like 1/4 of the items they drop now, but intensity could be 2x higher. Or some other kind of balanced loot fix, which would decrease the amount of items on monsters.


    What do you guys think?
     
  2. Ghosty

    Ghosty Guest

    On some monsters, less items of higher quality than the present tons of items of poor quality. Ronin come to mind ... a pack full of junk most every time. What's the point?
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    There are three things I've come to suspect in the Ultima Online realm...

    #1 -- Apparently there is a custom of dumping billions upon billions of footwear items into the ocean.

    #2 -- Magic enchanted weapons are so insanely plentiful, that the true rarity is to actually find a weapon, ring or shield that does NOT have any kind of magic property.

    #3 -- The manufacture of these magic items are obviously guided by the principal that 99.99999% of them need to range from ludicrously useless to severely underpowered.
     
  4. <blockquote><hr>

    On some monsters, less items of higher quality than the present tons of items of poor quality. Ronin come to mind ... a pack full of junk most every time. What's the point?

    [/ QUOTE ]Collect all the junk off the ronins turn into community collections.
     
  5. Ghosty

    Ghosty Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    On some monsters, less items of higher quality than the present tons of items of poor quality. Ronin come to mind ... a pack full of junk most every time. What's the point?

    [/ QUOTE ]Collect all the junk off the ronins turn into community collections.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hmm ... cheaper and easier to sit and make hundreds of low resist armor pieces yourself, than to spend time hunting just to gather it. I mean, not a bad idea, just not for the items currently spawning. Only would work for items we can't make ourself in that regard.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    On the one hand, I would agree. As it is, the item mod system itself as well as the drops are too much quantity and not enough quality.

    On the other hand, I can't say that I haven't benefited from the system in that I can stuff salvage bags full of iron scrap to turn into ingots to fill junk (iron) BODs (or sort through the items to fill the Normal quality deeds).

    The problem I think is that the possible item mod type and intensity combinations are so insanely high that in order to get something worth keeping, it takes an insane number of drops/rolls to get a desirable outcome... so to compensate for this, the devs bumped the number of items dropped accordingly.

    Secondly, someone brought up Ronin, well a lot of the humanoid mobs drop what they are wearing as loot (which makes sense), HOWEVER, ever since AOS, other than reading through lines of mods and remembering the base values for items, there's no way to tell the difference between a normal quality and a magic item (even worse in Treasure chests where an item can have +1 to a resist and look no different than a normal item). Previously, before AOS when we had to use Item ID or a wand/staff to ID the items, we at least got a "a magic widget" to let us know the difference between the normal item drops and magic item drops.
     
  7. Gruster

    Gruster Guest

    I agree that less loot to look at would be better since 99% of what I do look at, I won't pick up. I don't think loot intensity really needs to be increased tho. I suspect I leave a lot of lootable stuff simply because I don't take the time to look at all the items. Either because of respawn or because 99% of the what I do look at is crap [​IMG].

    At one time, one of the devs talked about a loot filter option. This is something I would still like to see. Let each player have some control over what shows up. so someone who likes seeing everything, would just leave the filter off and are not affected. Someone looking for high intensity stuff, would have the option to filter only items with X number of properties with Y min intensities. So if I'm just looking for somewhat good stuff, I could set the filter for like min 4 properties of min 50% intensity. I think that would filter out a great deal of stuff I consider junk. So if something does show up in the loot pack, I can be all excited for like 10 seconds. Then I see the properties include self repair, mage weapons and ubws [​IMG].
     
  8. Lord Sir Scott

    Lord Sir Scott Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

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    Man i wont even get into it but all i know is i have tons of stuff that would on other shard be consdiered rare or simi rare and on sonoma i cant give som,e of theses away for free...

    Some Sort of Loot Shuffle would be nice...
    Elf Stuff in trammel/fel ect
    id like to see more gold and less items though too... id rather have the gold to play with vs the items to have to try to sell...
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have come to the conclusion that a good 100 LRC luck suit with A. max luck or B. High luck and resists can only be finished if you burn up some runic kits.

    Currently I am trying to create a 100 LRC max luck suit. To do this I need all the artifacts which I do and 3 other pieces legs sleeves and gloves with 20 LRC and 140 luck on them. To get 3 pieces at 20 LRC 140 Luck I need to burn runics there is no other way to do it.
     
  10. I'd prefer a loot bag with just gold coins, special items like reagents for spellcasting mobs, robe of mages, and quest items that would occasionally have a magic item in addition that was worth checking. Of course that would be according to the creature's difficulty.

    The only problem with that is the number of types of weapons and armors, multiplied by the number of possible properties. In order to balance the game, less weapon, less armor, less skills and less spells/abilities would have helped a lot (KISS), but that's not what decided the previous teams.
    So now what's a good item and what's not?
    Obviously items with more properties are better. But the properties themselves are very different. Some are just 1 or 0 (Faster Casting, Spell Channeling, Nightsight), others are scaled from 1 to 100 (Luck)... so for some properties a 20% intensity is perfectly acceptable, while for other below 90% it's useless. Also some properties at 100% will remain crappy, while other are almost obligatory to be a keeper (like DI or SSI on a weapon).

    So what's the solution in your opinion?
     
  11. BadManiac

    BadManiac Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    So what's the solution in your opinion?

    [/ QUOTE ]A "toughness" scale for all monsters, based on fame, HP and offensive capabilities like magery, poison, bleed and so on. Then a sliding scale of loot intensities according to that, much like runic tool intensities now, higher toughness monsters have higher min and max properties.
    Harder monsters should spawn BETTER loot, not more. The AMMOUNT of loot should be tweaked so easier monsters have very few to no items, then add more items as they get progressively harder, but only up until a certain max ammount, so we don't go back to the current peerless 40 worthless items.

    It's all in my "What's wrong with UO" thread in my sig.
     
  12. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    I soloed a shadow lord at server up the other day 10 peices of BR and a super dragons 3 deaths and wala it died. Although i did get a cloak, I simply couldnt sort through all the items in time. I got through about half before the corps simply disappeared. That was disaponting.

    With this in mind I dont realy want to go to a system where If there is an item, I would want to take it. Not that sorting through 100 + items is very fun, but its the fact that Im not sure until I look thats keeping me interested. If i open a corps and see an items and assume its of value based soully on the creatue type then I lose that feeling of mystery that comes with the fact that some items are truely junk. Plus I like to actuality take all the junk metal and put it into a salvage bag stick it on a packy and bring to my smith. Can anyone say free ingots arnt kool?

    Now, On just about any corps I look at nowadays I only check the jewelry. Under no circumstance do I check amour. If theres a specific weapon type in there Ill look but with low hopes of anything worthwhile coming from it. The only exception is where I have a chance at a set amour piece that i dont alrdy own and thats only on peeless.

    What would happen if we reduced the items on corpses to near lootable to lootable only?

    I for one would lose intrest in opening corps all together. I wouldnt hunt as much and I wouldnt hunt anything that doesnt have a clear reason to open the corps. Gold isnt enough. With the above idea in mind(my solo SL) when I opened that corps I saw more items that I could conceivable go through. Thats becuase it was a "mostly" non soloable creature.

    If we take a paragon balron for example the number of items in there isnt all that much that I cant go through it solo. But the shadowlord was. Why, it was intended for more people to loot it. If we set up loot partition based on loot rights we'd have an acceptable number of items to go through IMO. And thats what we have now.

    Looking through total junk.

    When I open a corps as I said I dont even look at the armor or weapons. Just the jewlery gets a checkthrough. That limits my exposure to junk. Junk can be avoided and you can get back to hunting fairly quickly if ya know what you alrdy have and wht your looking for. If i stoped to look at every peice of junk I have axces to I wouldnt do very much actual hunting.

    Look at it this way minus the armor and weapons, how many items must you look at. 0-4 a corps typicaly one out of 30 corpses has a lootable if you run a vendor. If not 1 in 100. So thats at most 400 items to look at for one keeper. thats not that bad. If we add in armour and weapons thats more like 5000 items to look at for one keeper. Thats way too much. Limiting your "look ats" will increase the fun you can have while searching for items.

    Truthfully after AoS I refused to partake in the bod system for many yrs. I sought a complete enhanced set of amour and looted weapons. I never reached a full 70s suit of any note that way. Since breaking down to the inevitable fact the crafted runic items are just that much superior to looted ones Ive found the game much more fun.

    Stop looking at amour in corpes!

    Buy Runic!
     
  13. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

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    <blockquote><hr>

    Imho high end monsters should drop like 1/4 of the items they drop now, but intensity could be 2x higher. Or some other kind of balanced loot fix, which would decrease the amount of items on monsters.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I could go for something like this.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    On some monsters, less items of higher quality than the present tons of items of poor quality. Ronin come to mind ... a pack full of junk most every time. What's the point?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    sadly a lot of things about UO make us ask "What's the point?"

    do the Dev's even know? probably not. they don't play the game avidly.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well they upped the loot once only to knock it back down.

    Very true though, there is a ton of junk in the game... I'd rather have less items with better intensities.
     
  16. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    What if monsters spawned with no gold or loot?

    They wouldn't start having gold until they have been alive for a calculated period of time. The amount of gold and the number and quality of loot items would be based on the amount of time the creature lived, the creature's fame/difficulty, and the victor's luck.

    This would stop gold farming because killing the same creature in the same location over and over would get you 0 gold and no items.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yeah, I do Lady Mel and Dread in small groups and we always get a ton of useless items, with there being 1 or 2 usable items every 5 runs or so. Increase the quality and decrease the quantity.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Isn't this a bit like saying "why does the map need so many trees, 99.5% aren't prettier than that ones I've already seen"?
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    So... to sum it up. this is something we ALL agree on, low end loot is pointless.

    If we wanted crap we would burn a dull copper hammer or a spined/oak runic.






    heres my signature to remove crap from corpses.






    edit: I stand corrected it seems 1 person seems to think wading through tons of pointless items are a good idea
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    edit: I stand corrected it seems 1 person seems to think wading through tons of pointless items are a good idea

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Thank you - and yes, I do think it is an important part of the game [​IMG]
     
  21. <blockquote><hr>

    I would like to hear your opinions on this, cause this has been bothering me for some time.

    Why monsters have to drop sooo much loot? Tons and tons of items to go through of which 99,5% is crap and mad monster spawnrate. My wrist is braking trying to check all the items on corpses and trying to fight at the same time.

    Problem is mostly on high end monsters.

    Imho high end monsters should drop like 1/4 of the items they drop now, but intensity could be 2x higher. Or some other kind of balanced loot fix, which would decrease the amount of items on monsters.


    What do you guys think?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think they should turn Item ID into an accessory skill like it currently works for stone mining, sand mining, masonry, and glass blowing.

    A sample idea of how Item ID would help with loot on corpses:

    <ul> [*]1. It would allow the player to select items that are of interest to them.

    [*]2. It would alleviate the hassle of having to sort continuously through items with junk properties.

    [*]3. Items automatically appear spaced out in individual boxes, as they do in KR, in a semi-transparent window near the player, instead of in a corpse graphic, in a window that the player can select from, and which can be moved, and items in it can be moused over. I have tons of time it seems to kill attacking creatures but very little time to look through their corpses. I can't say "Hey Mr Blood Elemental, would you mind waiting while I'm looting your brethren's corpse?" because in some locations they respawn like mad. It's also high time the KR looting sytems of right-click-to-loot-item and highlight-graphic-with-ring should be ported over to the 2D client.

    [*]4. At a certain level in skill, the Item ID skill could be used to help you sort through secure containers in your house/bank box/pet/player backpack, by removing the time-consuming sorting through containers within. In other words, it's worth the effort for the player having to GM this. Doesn't work on containers/items on ground.

    [*]5. This works at the same range looting currently works at, players will still have to go to the corpse and double-click it, but if implemented it would simply be a matter of picking out what items they want.

    [/list]

    Anyone got stuff they'd like to add onto this? Comments? Possible unforseen adverse implications to this implementation?

    Cheers ...

    Darkvoid
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    There was a thread where a couple of people started a conditional formatting for item properties to highlight a certain color when they meet or exceed a certain criteria on the KR forum.

    I may dig that one up and see if I can finish up that little project to add in to KR custom UIs.

    Basically the idea will be that a given mod at or above a given value will list in a different color (say, red) upon mouseover.
     
  23. <blockquote><hr>

    ...

    There was a thread where a couple of people started a conditional formatting for item properties to highlight a certain color when they meet or exceed a certain criteria on the KR forum.

    I may dig that one up and see if I can finish up that little project to add in to KR custom UIs.

    Basically the idea will be that a given mod at or above a given value will list in a different color (say, red) upon mouseover.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm in favour of it being implemented in the 2D client as well. And KR still doesn't solve the overall problem of having to wade through loot in corpses. If you do DF at all, you'll know that there can be quite a few items in their corpses, it was about when AOS came out and items started getting generated for top attackers that the problem with loot started blowing itself out.

    I should further add to my idea that a filtering system for loot should be added. IE if this item doesn't contain properties I'm interested in, move it to the bottom of the loot list, or don't show it at all. And players can build a list of what properties they're interested in and what intensity they need it in.

    Also, the problem of greater dragons taking up all one's control slots is getting to be a problem. Normally you'd hunt with a fighter non-tamer chracter or take a nightmare, bake-kitsune or other 2-slot tameable that's good at dealing out damage, and go along with a beetle to store extra loot in.

    I therefore propose a "loot bag" for high level pets which have plenty of extra hitpoints to carry stuff with. Can carry 125 items, like a pack animal can. Loot can be put in this bag, and carted around with the tameable carrying it. Attached to the loot bag system is a real-time scaled cost per hour/items carried, say for up to 125 items 1000gp/hour; under 50 items 700gp/hour. For a tamer that's chickenfeed. When a pet dies the loot bag stays on the pet's corpse and can decay with it if not grabbed in time. Special feature of loot bag is that it's not lootable by monsters that loot, but items inside it can be looted by them.


    Cheers ...

    DarkVoid
     
  24. robbie2281

    robbie2281 Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    So... to sum it up. this is something we ALL agree on, low end loot is pointless.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well, I wouldn't necessarily agree that low end loot is pointless. There's always going to be "low end" loot (relative to the total amount of loot) no matter how many times you bump up the item intensities. Besides, as it has been pointed out, what is one man's trash is another man's treasure.

    Personally, I am just tired of sorting through the amount of loot available per corpse on the high-end monsters. If I am going to go out hunting, I certainly don't want to spend 5 minutes on a kill looting to see if there is something I want. With the top-end monsters like the ones in Moonglow or Peerlesses, the corpse has a tendency to disappear before I can scan through all the items.

    My solution would be to introduce a new stackable item called "scraps"... For any monster that drops more than say 15 pieces of loot, the lowest 60% or so of items intensity-wise are automatically converted to scraps of the appropriate crafting profession... those scraps can be looted from the corpse and later converted back into raw materials. It would give less items per corpse while still maintaining the intensity balance and amount of raw materials.
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think that instead of that ridiculously annoying bag of sending nerf they should have just cut the amount of gold dropped, it really is too high.

    As for items...far as I'm concerned they don't need to spawn anything at all. I stopped checking item properties years ago outside of Doom, which was the only place stuff was allowed to spawn with 100% intensities. It's all junk.

    What really makes no sense is the high end monster loot. If it's a struggle for a party to kill it, it should have something a little more exciting than a relatively small pile of gold and a heap of trash. There really is no point to high end PVM that isn't a champ, a peerless or in Doom.
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I have all the artys for it, but there are NO gorgets, sleeves or legs that have the properties I need, ANYWHERE.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Find a crafter with some runics to burn through. Crafted runic armor is far better than anything you could pick up as loot...even on the off chance it survived enhancement.
     
  27. BadManiac

    BadManiac Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I have all the artys for it, but there are NO gorgets, sleeves or legs that have the properties I need, ANYWHERE.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Find a crafter with some runics to burn through. Crafted runic armor is far better than anything you could pick up as loot...even on the off chance it survived enhancement.

    [/ QUOTE ]I have two friends with Luna/Umbra malls on my shard, they've burned over 40 brsk's between them since I started looking, got nothing that fit my suit. UO RNG needs to die, selectable enchantments when crafting FTW!
     
  28. <blockquote><hr>

    UO RNG needs to die, selectable enchantments when crafting FTW!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can just imagine archers running around with 50HL, 50 dmc inc, 40 SSI, 50 HLD balanced weapons [​IMG] [​IMG]