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Lost and Found fiction plot holes

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Flame (DrR), May 2, 2010.

  1. Flame (DrR)

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    2 things I’m trying to get straight about the new fiction.

    Firstly Ricardo was released from jail some time ago according to the fiction, if you read The Bell of Courage fiction which is when Dawn was looking over everyone before the Crimson Dragon battle and it shows that Ricardo and Avery was there.

    Secondly way back when Inu first appeared at Brit bank we were lead to speak to an enslaved Deamon who we freed/killed at the bottom of the Dojo and then his ghost thanked us at the bottom of Hythloth. In his chat he talked about his mistress which we all presumed was Minax. We were told Minax had gone beyond the vail never to return, and now she returns?

    I love these events and appreciate the hard work gone into them. But an eye needs to be kept on the continuity of the fiction please.
     
  2. Divster

    Divster Guest

    well he is a thief, i don;t find it that surprising he's in and out of prison :)
     
  3. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    I've been complaining about this since the poorly written/concieved Part 3 was posted.

    It ignores previously established events and character backstories. Some creative liscense is acceptable, but not the revisionist history hack job we're expected to accept.

    List of plot holes in the fiction:

    1) Ricardo back in prison after being named a trusted advisor to Dawn. (Source: The Bell of Courage by Draconi, posted 9/03/09)

    Why is he 'crazy' now and back in prison?

    2) Avery being a "private guard" to Lord Francisco (as stated in his dialogue when you talk to him in the Cat's Lair tavern)

    Avery was Captain of the Royal Guard under Lord Francesco until being framed by Melissa and Casca. (Source: Multiple offical fiction entries, as well as the Hope for the Future quest)

    3) Ricardo & Avery were held in a secret prison, NOT the one in Yew. (Source: From Rags to Riches by Draconi, posted 1/09/09)

    4) The device that allowed Minax to astral project into Trammel from Felucca was powered by fragments of the Gem of Immortality. (Source: BNN article - The Riddle of the Spynx posted 12/08/03)

    5) Lord British took the shards of the Gem of Immortality into the Void when he left Britannia. The only shards left was the one burried with Lord Blackthorn. (Source: BNN articles - Lord Blackthorn memorial Service Held by King posted 11/24/03 & Farewell to the King posted 12/19/03)

    So why would one be found wrapped in cloth in the vault? That makes no sense...


    And those are just the most glaring flaws...
     
  4. siyeng0

    siyeng0 Guest

    Ricardo was guilty all along. He did everything that he was accused of. We thought that Casca framed him, but we were misled. Which means that Britannia has SLAIN AN INNOCENT ELF.

    Avery and Ricardo didn't meet in the dungeon. "Ricardo" was actually a pod person pretending to be a master thief so that it could sneak into the dungeons, because the cold wet environment was required for its breeding cycle. They didn't realise that it wasn't actually Ricardo until it extended its proboscis and laid its eggs in Sherry (even then, Avery wasn't entirely convinced). That's why she's no longer present in the fiction. R.I.P., noble rodent. May you meet up with Mickey Mouse in the afterlife and begin work on Ultima: The Musical. And that is why Avery is acting like he's never met Ricardo in his life, much less plotted treason with him offscreen for approximately five in-game years.

    Minax fell through a black hole and re-emerged in the Cavern of the Discarded. She then hitched a ride on a convenient gargoyle back to Britannia.

    I fully expect to see Lord British come riding in on a unicorn, close the moongates to Tokuno and declare that it never existed for our next event.
     
  5. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    There are definitely several discrepancies that have occurred in the most recent fiction, to be sure. Trebr Drab and I have engaged in lengthy discussions about this very thing because they do tend to reuse small pieces of previous plotlines, and do so enough that he's semi-convinced that they have an overall story arc progression that someone's been planning for years.

    Sadly, with pieces such as this, it furthers my belief that while each team tries to be faithful to the fiction before it (unless you count the dual histories of Ilshenar, the spontaneous yet lacking history of Malas, and several fluctuations in the continuity of this little world known as Sosaria), quite often, it's just something someone thought would be cool to pick up, or it fits into what they're doing, and more oft than not, mistakes are made.

    I would be curious to know if there's a writer's bible somewhere in the building... and if not, I would encourage Mythic to start using one. Simply put, it's a good idea to keep a database on characters, notes as to what they've done, who they're related to, et cetera. The same for major object, major cities, minor cities, locations, et cetera. It doesn't have to be a novel per entry, but simply something someone could look up say, "Minax" and see that she wears a "Pearl Necklace," and then look at "Pearl Necklace," and find "Plot device used in X, Y, and Z stories, here's the intent, and what's been done."

    While fiction is sometimes malleable to fit a purpose, it is a shame that in an online RPG that it's not treated with a little more reverence. It is these little nuances that people interested in the vibrant world of Sosaria because of its vibrance are looking to get lost in. Not looking to get lost by.
     
  6. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    So many ways I could go here. Suffice it to say, I hate what the gaming industry is doing to MMORPGs. They don't feel like worlds, they feel like games. And that's the saddest thing of all.
     
  7. Flame (DrR)

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    I agree that there is probly an overall plot idea, but I'm think how they get from A to B can be influenced by our reactions to other events and the events are not going in a direct pre planned line.

    It would be great to have an event data base for us all. I have tried to do what was at first an event fiction but what has turned more into a history site because my memory fails me alot and its good to check over things as they happened. But when we have huge holes like this esspecialy when its very recent history they need to check whats being put out as there as quiet a few of us who like the event\history side of UO, and it lets there events down on that front.

    As for Ricardo back in jail for stealing after being let out, the fiction said Ricardo and Avery were out of jail for the crimson dragon event. But Lost and Found part 2 is very interesting in this regard, I only wish I had spoken up when I read it as it made me cringe.

    Big plot hole
     
  8. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Could be another Avery and just because everyone thought there were no more fragments of the gem of immortality, doesn't mean there weren't.
     
  9. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, it's very curious.....Not just the fact that there are holes but how obvious they are and some of them easily fixed, too...Some of the holes are from the recent fiction!

    The errors are especially weird in the light of the way they seem to want to base future changes in the game on the fiction. I find this laudable. But, then why louse up the fiction to such an alarming degree?

    There's varying degrees of knowledge about the characters and previous events. I, for example, didn't know that the notion of Minax being dead had been floated by the Unshackled Demon. But they should have....And, even more importantly, they got fiction wrong that is more recent, and way way less obscure, than that.

    Ricardo's being in prison could have been explained, I think, with a line or two...If he's a career criminal, he did something bad again and winded up locked up again....But they didn't even try.

    Perhaps Minax's return can be explained too. This is after all a supernatural world. But they didn't even try, and to me that is the point.

    And Avery's history? Everyone knew that Avery was in the Royal Guard, not the private guard of some nobleman. Or so I thought.

    And don't get me started on the incoherently-written event fiction.

    Such an odd contrast from the Abyss housing event. (Though I didn't catch the error in the Abyss housing fiction that someone else pointed out....I was too happily overwhelmed by how much they got right to notice.)

    I don't get it all honestly. For my part I'd have been willing to forgive some of the mechanical oddities of the event if they'd gotten the fiction and the trimmings right.

    If it weren't for Messana (sorry if I'm messing up your name!) running around fixing some of the mechanics by hand (we've seen her a couple of times on various shards), the event would likely be flat-out unplayable. The new rewards don't even have names yet.

    Umm.....Do a better job next time?

    I also, for one, would want to see you fix the errors in this event, at least with the official fiction posted. Even if you can't change the NPC dialogue, or even if you just don't want to? At least change the fiction on the site, so that way you won't be screwing yourselves over in the future.

    It should take 1 hour's work, maybe 2 at most. Maybe not even an hour!

    -Galen's player
     
  10. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    "Trusted advisor" pfft...
    HANG RICARDO
     
  11. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    Wonder if anyone thought of focusing on the fact that we even have a plot running right now?


    Yes it has some plot holes but.... how many years pass in one earth year? Shouldn't all of these characters.... I don't know be umm.... dead?
     
  12. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    There is no death in UO, only temporary grey screen.
     
  13. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Ricardo was guilty, AND Casca was a devious usurper to the throne. Neither man is innocent. Milk Ricardo for what he has and be done with him... Casca as far as I know has already been dealt with.
     
  14. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Maybe Avery got caught scripting and demoted, Richardo was unattended macroing and ended up in jail. Minax duped the gem of immortality and managed to get back, and thats why there are extra fragments lying around.

    At least THAT story would be very consistant with UO Lore.
     
  15. Flame (DrR)

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    lets stay on topic, this threads not about whether Ricardo was guilty/innocent but the fact their is so many plot holes in the latest fictions. Taking the Ricardo one he was released from jail before Dawn was crowned along with Ricardo. Now 8 months later were told he was in jail all along and so was Avery, they say the opposit to each other. This event seems to have been put together badly/hurridly (if theres such a word) with errors all over it.

    I love event and appreciate them very much, one of the reasons I play but minor mistakes can be over looked if nothings said when things are this far out things could only get worse. Perhaps we need a fiction test shard hehe.
     
  16. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Apparently there is only one form of madness in Sosaria, the gibbering idiot disease. It spontaneously strikes people who are pivotal in administering clues. The burden of all that additional knowledge scrambles their brain and renders them unable to inhibit their faculty of speech.

    I find it interesting that in a world we can make over as we wish with progressive attitudes toward race, gender, and so forth, that mental illness is still reduced to a cartoonish joke. Time travel, cyborgs, genetic engineering, sure.. but just don't expect the depiction of insanity to be anything beyond medieval "because that's the time period".

    Come on, writers.. a little more subtlety at least? The spectrum of mental illness is so broad and rich, so much to draw on, yet it's always gibbering idiot syndrome if someone has to go insane.
     
  17. Nexus

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    This is very true, and while we're thinking about it WTH is with the same villains always coming back for more? It's like a bad comic book or a Pinky and the Brain episode..... "Gee Minax What do you want to do tonight?" "The same thing we do every night Crag. Try and take over Trammel!". I mean seriously in 12 years no really new beings we could call being of the unusual evil variety have cropped up? I mean it's cool and all you guys are trying to work with beings inside the Ultima Mythos as much as possible but seriously, do you honestly thing in the years Minax has been off licking her wounds no one has tried to throw his or her weight around? The Shadow Lords come from established fiction.. why is it impossible for some new nut case to raise to power? Casca was as close as it came and you killed him off :-(
     
  18. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I can think of a few holes in your "plot holes"

    1. Ricardo is in prison, yes.
    a.The Ophidian heist wasn't his only crime, after all.
    b. Besides, he appears to be insane, and until the invention of sanitariums, crazy people often WERE locked up in prisons (Inu, on the other hand, it appears, was crazy AND took the supernatural to imprison).
    c. For that matter, since his cell door is unlocked, it would also indicate that he's being held there for his own protection, and might be checking himself in there ala Otis the drunk. After all, who knows what secrets he holds that others might try to kill him for, and he's the only non-guard resident of the entire complex, currently.

    2. There's nothing to say that Avery's position didn't start out as a private guard of Francesco, and that Francesco got him the gig with the Royal Guard. Avery would have still felt immense loyalty and personal connection to Francesco as a result - and would have probably seen his duty to his lord only slightly less than to the Royal Guard itself - especially when the duties overlapped. Again, historically, it was not uncommon for someone to be oathbound to a local noble as well as to a much higher-ranking one, leading to loyalty issues - not to mention occasionally having a duke or count, from their position being unexpectedly elevated (older brothers dying, for example), still having sworn fealty to serve a much lower ranking noble, in respects to that other noble's territory.

    3. No one has ever said that Ricardo is still in the same (secret) prison that he and Avery were held in - you're assuming that. See #1 for the ideas of protective custody, and the fact Ricardo had committed other crimes other than the one Casca convicted him of.

    4. & 5., those are errors, but so many creative teams have come and gone since 2003 that it's almost to be expected. Plus, my own research on BNN articles from before that time indicate that in many cases, the events of a specific shard colored the way an event was depicted in BNN, and the events did not go down in the same way on all shards. For example, IIRC, Lake Austin's departure of Lord British had several different fictional elements to it, than other shards, as they allowed EMs some input to interweave their stories with the overall fiction.
     
  19. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Why is it so hard to understand that a known thief is in prison?
     
  20. Nexus

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    Because a known thief was given a Royal Pardon, and dang near declared a Hero...
     
  21. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    By a warrior who was put into power but knows nothing of such politics. Dawn is dumb.
    Is it so hard to fathom that a thief is a thief?
     
  22. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Last I checked, Pardons only cover the crimes listed in the Pardon itself. You can be pardoned of one crime, and still be subject to the penalties of others you were found guilty of. Until the last 100 years or so, blanket pardons were rare.

    And, as I conjectured, frankly, it looks to me like they're putting him up in the otherwise-empty Yew Prison as protective custody, for someone who knows too much, and whose life might still be in danger from surviving SL minions... Not to mention he's nuttier than a Payday bar right now (another reason people are locked up)
     
  23. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    That just adds to the hole in the plot though.

    He wasn't crazy 8 months ago, as evidenced in the previous fiction.

    The problem many of us have with this is NOT the fact he is a thief, but that NOTHING has been put into the fiction that explains any of this.

    Part 3 was a god-awful mess of extremely poor writing, which seriously doesn't live up to Parts 1 or 2. Hell, Part 2 even named Avery as the previous Captain of the Guard.

    Mythic has jumped the shark when it comes to the fiction when they can't even maintain continuity between two pieces of fiction posted in the same month.

    Mythic needs a loremaster capable of maintaining all plot threads so they may be wrapped up without all the holes and glaring inconsistencies. Thats what this thread is really about.
     
  24. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, Lord Chaos, it could be another Avery except that when you actually engage him in conversation, you know that he's not.

    But given that you've spent more time posting here looking for the quickest way from point A to point B with the current event, rather than just simply trying it out for yourself, I would guess you haven't conversed with him.

    And sure, there could be fragments of the gem of immortality ad nauseum. It starts become an industry term known as "plot contrivance" though.
     
  25. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, we are focusing on that fact. The entirety of this thread is about that fact. They've done some spectacular stuff recently, but in truth, this feels like it was rushed out the door. I'd have preferred to wait another week with a, "We have some kinks to work out and have pushed it back to next weekend," than something that looks and feels so utterly unfinished. And while plot may not be important to everyone, it is important to many of us, especially those of us in the RP community.

    Well, it's a mystical, fantastic world where people don't age the same as here on Earth.
     
  26. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Maybe he got demoted for sleeping with a nobles daugther or something.

    No, I haven't started the quest yet and honestly I am not going to go into details of the quest for every last character on 10 accounts...sorry. I'll go through the details with ONE character, then speed dial the rest.

    Even if it is, then its often used, thats for sure. Who says the demon didn't lie?
     
  27. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Yep.

    I don't know why more people don't get that. I don't think stuff like that, narrative explanations for things and some basic amount of consistency, are a lot to ask.

    For example, a lot of good could've been doing by replacing the lines about Minax's mascara with the following line:

    "It's funny," said Minax. "You vanish from the stage for a few years, people forget you're in the play. Even your own so-called followers think you're dead."

    Yep. Also doesn't live up to the fiction surrounding the Abyss housing quest.

    Were even the line-breaks really badly off for anyone else?

    -Galen's player
     
  28. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
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    Whether you accept or reject the "plot holes" I think the point being made is UO for many is based on storyline. This history of UO is being written with each event that arcs into future events. So essentially, "get it right" is what I'm reading and I agree.

    When certain liberties need to be taken, like say Ricardo is in prison again, explain it, even if not in detail then at least allude to it. Problem solved. The players here who have respectfully made mention of it do so because they interact in game sometimes in pure RP. That is not a cornerstone foundation I would want to rattle with inaccuracies. *smiles*
     
  29. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    Maybe Ricardo's in jail because HE TRIED TO STEAL FROM LORD BRITISH'S SECRET VAULT AND WE ARE RIGHT NOW ON A QUEST ABOUT THIS VERY THING.

    It's like you people are actively trying to be oblivious.
     
  30. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    And yet that’s not stated ANYWHERE in the fiction...or even hinted at.

    In fact, I do believe it was stated that the books were put out "before" the while Artificed scion theft.

    It’s a gaping plot hole in a poorly conceived story and a shoddily constructed event.
     
  31. Mark_Mythic

    Mark_Mythic UO Legend
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    Hi all, since you care I thought I would just be honest. The plot hole in Avery and Ricardo being released from prison is my fault... more or less. At least, it's my problem... which at this point is more relevant.

    The current story arc is based on the information that was in our archive (or bible as some like to call it). My goal now and ongoing is to be true to the continuity of UO while creating an interesting story that will ultimately lead to the restoration of Magincia. The problem is... our archive is updated by the writer who is designing live events at the time (someone like myself) and is only as good as they were diligent. If they fail to document their stuff and then leave the company... well... we end up with problems and have to muddle through. Welcome to my life. So, problems in continuity in the current arc will give you some insight into what parts of UO history were well documented and what was not.

    I suppose I could just draw a line in the sand and never speak of the history of Sosaria, but that doesn't seem right. So, I'm going to just press on and rely on the community to help me stay on track. When you find problems, let me know and I will do what I can to fix them. I appreciate you pointing them out to me because it is very important to me to preserve continuity, which is why for example I was like... "We never got Avery out of prison... I need to fix that."

    I felt like I should just go ahead and kick this out in the open because it will surely come up again and just admitting it up front is probably the best idea. Hopefully the quality of the events will offset the occasional mis-step in continuity and as you point them out I will fix as many of them as I can. With practice, I will be able to know where the holes in our archive are and just avoid them.

    I'm not going to 'un-write' what I have done so far but I will try to tie it back and create continuity if possible. In some cases, I will just have to accept that there is a problem that I can't fix and just move forward... like with Avery being let out of prison on 2 occasions. Maybe they let the wrong Avery out of prison the first time? Would Dawn even know what he looked like? She was on some farm and a Dragon came and picked her up to go to battle, someone said, "There's Avery, we got him out of prison." And they went into battle. I realize that is pretty weak, but that's all I got.

    OK, to the immediate continuity problems that I can explain:

    To start with, I can fix the one about Minax easy. Demons are just big liars and you can't believe anything they say... even dead ones. That fact is actually going to become relevant in the current story arc pretty soon so it might as well be true about Minax.

    According to the archive, Lord Francisco was the royal treasurer and had his own private guard. Avery, the captain of Lord Francisco's militia, came into the lime light during the last arc and somewhere along the way he became this kind of Jack Bauer character. There is nothing that I can find that says he replaced Geoffrey, who has been around since the beginning of the game. In fact, there has been didly said about Geoffrey in some time, but he was in a lot of the single player games and is in the old fiction.

    It was my assumption that Geoffrey was still Captain of the Royal Guard under Casca, and wasn't aware until everyone else was that Casca was actually evil. Lord Francisco and Avery represented the good guys stuck in this bad administration trying to do the right thing. It is not a big stretch to assume Casca kept Geoffrey waylaid by sending him on time wasting missions.

    The other's I will just try to fix in future fiction.

    There was another character mentioned briefly in the last arc called the Commander of the Royal Guard, he was a member of the council like Francisco and was killed with the council. I assume that he was Geoffrey's boss and I was considering promoting Geoffrey to Commander. Stop me if this is going to make a new problem by doing this.
     
  32. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I love honesty! Thank you!
     
  33. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Having been part of maintaining fiction continuity once, I can certainly understand your plight and how hard it is to make it match up with the expectations of players who sometimes are better at recording than you yourself are, especially with people on the project coming and going.

    You're doing a fine job and I am impressed that you managed to actually not only add lore and meaningful interaction, but you also allowed us to completely bypass the whole thing (I *REALLY* don't want to hear Ricardos rambling on character #43 going through it and thankfully I didn't have to), so those who wanted immersion got immersion, those who wanted to dive in the event and loot, could do that.

    And I gotta thank you for making both events accessible for all kinds of characters, not just fully decked out super chars. It was really fun to actually have my smith, alchemist or miner out and about on a quest.

    Oh and just as a follow up on what happened last time, I spoke so highly about the follow ups and this following events, that my two friends have not only reactivated, they've also started upgrading their accounts to SA. :)

    :thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1: to you guys, keep up the good work.
     
  34. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
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    Please don't :sad3:

    Please do :)

    You have a wealth of information and willing participants in the UO community. Maybe a big undertaking could be to plug the holes now before the next arc as you mentioned. I think we're used to past developers of content having experienced the history themselves as they moved forward with it and we do have documentation, its just sorta...all over the place. *grins*

    I hope any naysayers here don't donk yer head over not being familiar with all the details and instead appreciate an honest interaction.

    Hugs to you!
    -Air
     
  35. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    One thing I'd like to suggest is to after all of this is done, is to somehow get some lore and background for things already added in the game, like hell, do we even know what the hell the champ spawns and the harrower is really?

    Perhaps tie up some old and forgotten plotlines?
     
  36. Mark_Mythic

    Mark_Mythic UO Legend
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    Yeah, I agree... what the heck is up with those champ spawns? Shouldn't someone have put a blockaid around it? Perhaps some yellow tape?

    It seems that through the history of UO, sometimes the designers were telling a story and sometimes they were just puttin' stuff in the game.

    For example... I could just stick Magincia back up either sheep town or like it used to be and call it good. "There, that fixed it!" But my personal inclination is to tell a story... hopefully a good one.

    I'm kind of bummed that Avery's and Ricardo's release were thrown away in one line of a piece of fiction that I don't even have anymore. How awesome is it to think we had left him in jail by accident for so long? It's practically tragic. You can't plan stuff that awesome... I was estatic to have such a juicy bit of story telling to build on. War hero forgotten... sets out on his own to try to put his life back together.... etc.

    I'm going to move forward with Ricardo in prison (though I might try to fix the continuity) and Avery trying to put his life back together because I know it's going to be a good story. With Avery I'm just going to drop the part about how long he was in prison. We will never speak of it again. My arc for the next part of Avery's life is much more interesting than "He comes in and says 'Yes Sir' and then goes out again."

    The current story is one where the lines between good and evil become blurred and being a "good guy" is no longer simple. To give you a little taste, in the next couple of patches I'm going to put in a 'bad guy town crier'... call him something like "Seedy Informant" and you can go to him and get the badguy news. (We're doing some upgrades to the town crier too so that system is easier to keep updated. Right now Menassa has to go around and update them by area serve on each server which is teh suck) UO is still about The Virtues and the struggle for good to triumph over evil, but I'm looking to put a little more emphasis on the struggle of the player character, not some NPC. In the event that just came out on Friday, it is still easier to be good than bad in Sosaria but that is part of the story, the corruption of a society does not happen over night.
     
  37. How or will this affect the Sherry the Mouse statues a lot of us have?
     
  38. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Thank you for your honesty Mark, it is refreshing.

    However, I can confirm that your story bible has some holes.

    It was not Lord Francisco, it is Lord Francesco. He did start out as the treasurer but stepped into the leadership of the Ruling Council before the beginning of the first Inu arc.

    Captain Avery was of the Royal Guard as per prior posted fiction, Geoffery hasn't been seen in over a real-life decade. If you want to get technical, Geoffery was replaced during the first round of the EMs as many (if not all) shards had an EM character playing the role of Captain/Commander of the Royal Guard.

    On Great Lakes we had Sebastian, Tomas Savos, and currently Christine Keel. Not a lot you can do to about shard specific fiction other than use characters who aren't in leadership roles for your fiction. (i.e. Why would Geoffery, as Captain of the Royal Guard, stand around all day giving out bags of crap? Doesn't he have more important things to be doing, like making sure the Queen is safe? Having a lieutenant do it this time makes more sense.)

    As for Ricardo, he was released by the (now) Queen and played some part as an advisor during the end of the war. Why would he be A) suddenly crazy (after being quite lucid in fiction posted last summer) and B) back in prison?
     
  39. Mark_Mythic

    Mark_Mythic UO Legend
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    Hmm... guess I'm going to need a talking cat.

    The Sherry that you have in your homes will continue to know what the town crier knows, she will continue to be tied into that system. Sherry is squeeky clean (pardon the pun) and I intend for her to stay that way.
     
  40. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    me too

    Plus, we could just give the guy a break and ignore whatevers wrong with the plotline.
     
  41. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    This isn't a complaint about this, what you are planning. I think that sounds great. But otherwise, I'm getting a little tired of the whole "gray area" thing that gained so much steam in gaming the last few years. I mean, was Mondain just a misunderstood guy?

    The problem becomes, where is the eVul?
    And it extends as well. In UO, according to so many, PKers (that would be murderers who loot the good folks of Sosaria dry) are just doing their thing. They don't deserve any punishment. No, "Justice" is just another side of the coin of gray area.

    Hehe, I know I went a little too far there. rolleyes:
    But I'm trying to make a point, I think, not really sure.
    The real problem is I don't care anymore. Go figure. UO is on life support to me.

    Ahh well, quit while I'm not ahead.

    Considering what I should do, and just go away for good. I'm sure no one wants to hear my crap anymore.
     
  42. Sir_Bolo

    Sir_Bolo Sage
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    :thumbup1:
    Agreed, better to leave some continuity errors and stick with the vision rather than trying to patch up the story afterwards and create an even bigger continuity mess.
     
  43. Scarst

    Scarst Lore Master
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    Honestly, I have only one thing to get at.

    Everyone loves a thief the only people who don't are the victims. Thieves are great if you get the awesome personality that identifies the rogue, which is a list of qualities that combined make a great character that makes a story ten times better.

    A great character thief should have the the following qualities:

    1. Knows the boundaries and pushes them whenever they see a good opportunity with minimal risk.

    2. Stealthy enough to get in and get out without being noticed.

    3. The strength to fight when they are caught and win or at the very least win.

    4. Knowing when a situation is important enough that they should stop stealing and start helping the good guys until the threat has passed.

    5. A slick tongue, no one wants to be robbed by a guy who stutters.

    And I'll cut my list there as this isn't exactly the place for it and end with, even a thief can get caught and honestly he probably had to make up time after stealing jewels from dawn after the threat was over. I mean he is a thief.
     
  44. Sir_Bolo

    Sir_Bolo Sage
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    "Commander of the Royal Guard" was the title held by the roleplay characters played by the Event Moderators in the first round of the EM program in 2003-2006. Each Shard had a different unique Commander.
    The title would imply that (s)he outranked Sir Geoffrey, but actually the two characters rather had different roles in the Royal Guard.
    The "Commander" led the Royal Guard on errands and in battle, while Sir Geoffrey as "Captain of the Royal Guard" was mostly responsible for the personal security of Lord British.

    Anyway, the Commander of the Royal Guard characters were killed off by the EMs or simply abandoned when EA terminated the program in 2006.

    When Mythic restarted the EM program in 2008, the new EMs chose completely new roleplay characters - assuming that the old Commanders died in the council massacre is a valid explanation for their disappearance.

    In conclusion: the promotion wouldn't be a consistency issue per-se; however in UO the title of Commander would be more suited for an 'action man' rather than for Sir Geoffrey who spends most of the time in the Castle nowadays.

    Avery would have been an appropriate choice if he hadn't resigned for example... Or keeping in line with UO tradition, the new EM characters could be appointed as shard-specific Commanders by Queen Dawn.
     
  45. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    I'm thinking Mark is one of the most honest designers UO had in a long time. We're getting insight as to the inner workings of our game handlers and it really helps give me a better understanding. With this understanding, it helps alleviate any doubt and fear.
    This latest team after SA has really stepped up. In fact they all have an air of honesty about them. Keep up the good work and I can't wait for what you have in store for us!
     
  46. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Would it be violating trade secrets if you posted stuff from the Bible, so we could point out gaps and stuff?

    Also would give Stratics and the UO Guide and the various RP wikis/sites out there a chance to sync up with the official fiction.

    Sometimes people like to deviate from the official fiction, but I'd argue that when we do it, we should be fully aware of what we're doing.

    -Galen's player
     
  47. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    Now you've done it Mark..

    "Avery is like a Jack Bauer"


    I fully expect now to see such badassery as a sword wielding Jack.

    If Avery Bauer doesn't punch a hole in Minax and pull out her ovaries, I may be
    disappointed ;)
     
  48. Flame (DrR)

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    etc

    Thanks for such a quick, honest and open reply. If you ever need help just ask on here about anyone or anything to do with UO law/history and I’m sure you will get allot of feedback along with giving us a chance to fill each other in on things, nobody knows it all. It’s amazing how someone mention something will help remind someone else of more so try us out. If we started gathering information like this it would be cool if stratics could start a UO law thread for us all to use and add to, with the information being stored there, it’s something that we all could benefit from.
     
  49. DarkVoid

    DarkVoid Guest

    On the "squeeky clean" part of your response, I keep seeing all of this junk that people keep throwing on the ground near Lt. Dan (and presumably the other guy too although I haven't visited him) in a bag. Do you have any idea how much work it is to have to pick up all this junk and store it all properly so I can pick through it with my imbuer and train his Item ID up at the same time?

    I don't think it was originally intended for people to be litterbugs in UO, however, this species seems to have evolved rapidly over the years and we are now living in a "throwaway" world. Wouldn't it be good if some EA/Mythic Dev could come up with a solution that would alleviate the pressure on the "throwaway" player types?

    Part of the reason players just throw away stuff is because it is not what they expected or wanted. I have asked previously for some sort of house inventory search system, and I'll ask again if EA/Mythic can do something about having to manually find items in one's own house when they get misplaced or lost. Imbuing and it's unraveling helps with the junk wearables that have random resists and properties on them but it's only part of the solution.

    A bigger part of the solution would be to change the way looting works.

    If a player can search through BOD books for a BOD they want, it should be a logical next step to design a tool for players to assess and grab loot faster - not all players can play 24/7, and unless one runs illegal bots, picking through monster corpses is tedious at best and nightmarish if there's a boss or buffed up monster wandering around randomly targetting players. Without going into too much detail about what such a tool should auto-loot, I feel such an item should require the following:

    1. Charges or perhaps be charged for a certain large-scale number of seconds, much the same way items with lifespans work.

    2. A medium length quest with locations in the game that have certain items players need to get, either from spawn, or the ground itself.

    3. A small quantity of items and rare ingredients in order to be recharged.

    Please fix the time it takes to wade through corpses that contain way too much junk. Even if loot tables do get revised, there will still be lots of items left behind because there is currently no economical way for a player to carry it all so that they can pick through it later.
     
  50. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    Snippet:
    He could have been bribed at least... thieves like food. Srsly.

    And I'm a little miffed that they have Ricardo dressed as town crier.

    Thank you Mark for planning on setting things to rights... I appreciate it. :)