1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Luck Vs Loot

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lord Gandalf, May 28, 2015.

  1. Lord Gandalf

    Lord Gandalf Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,181
    Likes Received:
    721
    Ive been farming some exodus/corguls/champs and more...
    After months of testing, Luck doesnt seem to affect the loot at all, i must also say that most of the decent items dropped on my non-luck suit...

    Following uoguide.com:
    "A character's total Luck is used when loot is spawned on creature corpses. It gives a chance of there being a greater amount of loot, a chance of a greater number of properties on said loot, and a chance that those properties will be of greater intensity. It should be noted, however, that this is only a chance of more and better loot, and that Luck has no direct affect on what specific items will spawn and what specific properties will spawn on those items."

    Question:
    1- Do you you get higher intensity items?
    2- Do you really get more items?
    3- Does it affect the number of items properties?
    4- Does luck affect brittle/prized/cursed titles?

    But the big question is: IS IT REALLY WORTH THE EFFORT AND TIME to get than 10% or that 1 extra item or 1 extra mod when u can do 3 champs with a non-luck suit instead of 2 with a luck one... Does it make sense?

    Thank you
     
    keyvan likes this.
  2. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Messages:
    7,924
    Likes Received:
    3,574
    I find wearing a luck suit makes pretty much no difference. I mainly farmed Exodus. I would get more usable items from wearing a normal "combat ready" suit. Of course it is totally down to the RNG.

    My sampire has about 1700 luck and my mage suit has 2400. I've just stopped bothering with them now tbh.

    I've also recently tried doing the SOS's with my fisherman (I wear my mage 2400 luck suit) and after 50+ MIB's I have kept none of the loot. Its mainly all junk.

    I've also tried wearing a luck suit for the whole encounter and then wearing my normal gear then swapping to my luck suit near the end of the battle.
     
    keyvan and Finley Grant like this.
  3. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,951
    Likes Received:
    5,435
    I still say that it's all RNG ..... and with that your account comes per-destined in one of 3 ways.... Either you are given by RNG a negative "luck" value that applies to EVERYTHING you do in-game... or you are "neutral" or you are given a positive luck value. This value is inherent to your account and totally outside any luck in-game.

    This is done it would seem in "many" games. Ever wonder how one person seems to have insane luck all the time? I knew a guy who every time we went to Doom got a drop... infact he was so lucky at it he got 2 orni's off 2 back to back Dark Fathers one night. He always seemed to be at the "right" place at the "right" time to get whatever it was. It was sick the luck he had... if we went as a group and did a champ he'd be THE one out of everyone who got a +20 scroll... everyone would get +5 or maybe a +10.... but he'd get a +20 almost every time. And it wasn't his template... it wasn't his build.... wasn't his suit. Was just his account. Didn't matter what character he took... was sickening... I'm 100% positive my "luck" value for UO on most of my accounts is negative. I have maybe 1 or 2 "neutral" accounts..... ZERO positive ones.

    I'd say for every positive account there are at least 9,999 "neutral" and 99 "negative" accounts. That's my "theory" and I'm sticking with it. I also believe that the DEV's have access to that and can "change" this assignment on an account at will. Randomly they might give everyone a positive value for a short time before putting it back to negative... just so folk don't get all pissy and quit.
     
  4. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    3,588
    Likes Received:
    1,454
    I've never had a luck suit improve the loot I've gotten either. Luck appears to have been broken from the start. If it does have an effect, it's so small it's lost in the average range of numbers loot gives.
     
  5. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    2,041
    It would be nice to get the RNG removed and a definitive rule/answer regarding how luck impacts loot. Wearing a 2000 luck suit should ALWAYS give better loot than wearing no luck, not this BS % chance to maybe get a loot bump if the RNG likes you and no one else looks at the monster and if the phase of the 3rd moon is waxing type crap. We need instanced corpses (even in party) and each persons loot should be determined based on thier individual luck. Then luck needs to have a definitive impact... Something like for every 1 point of luck you get a .5 boost to the property weight budget for item generation (up to a hard cap based on the monster). So killing slime with 2000 luck would give better loot than with no luck, but would not be getting 1000 weight items because slimes might have a cap of 250. But killing something like Exodus might have a cap of 1500 so you could wear up to 3000 luck before you hit his cap.

    A system like this would actually make luck useful rather than the farce we have now.
     
  6. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    138

    I have played quite awhile now and can say with 99.9% certainty that its not my account with a negative luck but certain Characters.

    My guess is that older characters created before fel/tram split are some how broken. All my characters Made and trained after seem to fair far better.

    Also my Starting characters have much higher rental rates from vendors then my newer created characters. No joke.
     
  7. inquisitor

    inquisitor Visitor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    5
    People simply don't understand how luck works in loot generation and think that it has some significant effect on the quality/quantity of items produced. This is simply not true because it has such a low effect that it would be likely unnoticeable unless one used a huge database to see the subtle effect. Her is how loot effects item generation (at least according to UO Guide). When loot is generated (say from the death of a monster or a creation of a chest) a RNG roll is first done to determine the number of items, number of properties of each items, and the intensity of each item. (I.e. the pool of points which are then distributed to each individual item). Luck has no effect on this first roll. After that is done, then a second RNG roll is made against the characters luck which gives a percentage chance for increase of: number of items, number of properties on each individual item, and intensity of properties of each individuals item. There are unique rolls made for each of the three. The probability of a successful roll is the comparison of character luck on a sliding scale up to a maximum of 100% chance of an increase (at zero luck, you have a zero percent chance, at 3982 luck you have 100% chance of a successful roll, and any amount of luck between those amounts gives you a percentage chance of success based upon a logarithmic continuum between those two figures. I.e. very little luck is needed to get a 10% chance increase, but it takes an increasing larger number of luck points to increase the chance of a successful role the closer one becomes to a 100% chance of success; 10% is only 63, 20% is 220, 50% is about 1144, 100% is 3982). So lets say your character has a 1144 luck suit, indicating a 50% chance of a successful role. A RNG roll is made for say, number of items, and if the RNG roll is 50-99 you win, if 0-49 you lose. So lets say you win, then what did you win in terms of MORE items. The answer is ONE extra item, UNLESS giving you that extra item would cause you to exceed the pre-determined MAXIMUM cap of items that can be generated for the given "monster/chest/etc". If it would, your successful roll is effectively negated. (Remember, the initial number of items on the corpse/chest was determined in roll #1, for which luck is irrelevant). So say you fish up a level three chest which has on average about 45 items in it. If you are successful on the luck roll for number of items, you get 46 unless 46 is greater than the maximum number of items you can get in a level three chest. The "bumps" for number of properties is one, again unless it would exceed the maximum number of properties that an items can be generated for the, say, monster you killed. Again, there is a hard cap on the number of properties that an items can be generated for a given monster (i.e. an item off a mongbat corpse may only have a maximum of say, two properties). If the "extra" property on the item would exceed the cap, it is disregarded. For intensity of the property, you get a 10% increase if successful, again unless it would exceed the maximum intensity that a given monster corpse can generate. (i.e. under no circumstances can a mongbat corpse contain, say a major magic item no matter how high your luck is).

    So, in summary, IF you get a successful RNG rolls against the luck of your character, it MOST you get:
    1 extra item;
    and/or
    each item you get can have 1 extra property;
    and/or
    each property is increased by 10%.

    Since sometimes the corpse is initially generated with the max number of items, luck will have no effect.
    Since sometimes an individual item will initially generated with the maximum number of intensities for a given corpse, luck would have no effect.
    Since sometimes an individual item will be generated that is already within 10% of the maximum intensity cap for a given corpse, luck would have no effect.
    Hopefully this will dispel/explain why luck is fairly useless, assuming it works as intended (and that the UOGuide article is correct)
     
  8. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Messages:
    7,924
    Likes Received:
    3,574
    If in wearing a luck suit I expect to be luckier and get better items.
     
    keyvan likes this.
  9. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    2,285
    Here are two sites that did a good job on letting people know how LUCK was explained to the player base when it first came out http://ode-guild.com/uostuff/random-loot-generator html http://www.uoguide.com/Luck and the bottom line is (not sure which dev told us) LUCK is broken and not working as intended and how long has this been, forever.
     
  10. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    2,041
    Luck may in fact be working as intended... The problem is that "as it is intended" application sucks!

    Consider a party of 6 players all doing roughly equal damage. 5 of the players are wearing 0 luck while the other 1 is wearing 1144 luck... For the player wearing the luck suit he has roughly an 8% chance of getting his luck to affect the loot. Pretty pathetic. Even if that player has a Godly luck suit with Bushido and luck statue and has 4000 luck... He has a whooping 16% chance of the loot being improved.

    IMO there is enough RNG at play with how items a generated that luck should play a fixed role in improving the items. There should be a reliable and quantifiable benefit. Think a property like lower mana cost... It isn't a random chance at using less mana when you cast. Luck should be more like that.
     
  11. Kuzan

    Kuzan Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    27
    I only see a effect on luck if I am in fel running max luck on my tamer farmed ancient wyrms killed 3 got a legendary of course red came in and ran me off with my pitiful resists on the suit went to tram killed 70+ got 1......

    Also tried a luck party on a fel tmap me and 2 friends wearing max luck 5 legendarys
     
    transcendent likes this.
  12. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    2,285
    Luck IS NOT working as intended as told to us by a Dev and to date has not been fixed. This is another one of those "lets add this to the game and when it doesn't work let hope everybody forget about it." There are MANY threads about LUCK and this is just another questing if luck works or not. You can believe what you want but maybe you should search the archives and find out for yourself.

    PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE LUCK IS BROKE AND IT HAS NEVER AND WILL PROBABLY NEVER BE FIXED.
     
    Parnoc and Lord Gandalf like this.
  13. JoO

    JoO Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    21
    I believe it was Draconi in one of the town hall irc chats. He disclosed that luck had never worked and was partly due to the antiquated rng system that was being utilized. He said they were working on it but frankly it was so embedded they weren't sure where to start.
     
    Parnoc and Lord Frodo like this.
  14. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,621
    Likes Received:
    1,382
    Wait, so you're saying Draconi was right, and some dude who just created a stratics account "visitor" was wrong ? My shocked face :eek:
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  15. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    2,285
    BOOM
     
    Scribbles likes this.
  16. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    2,285
    OMG Will wonders never cease. LMAO
     
    Parnoc and Scribbles like this.
  17. inquisitor

    inquisitor Visitor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    5
    I made no claim that Luck was "actually working", just how it was supposed to work, assuming it was at all. Quite frankly whether it is working or not is pretty irrelevant because the bump, assuming it is working, is so pathetic as to be nearly indistinguishable. Do you have any idea who many of a single given monsters you would have to kill and record the total number of items dropped to statistically distinguish between 40 items (assuming luck is not working as planned) and 41 items (assuming luck is actually working as planned)? I would suspect that it would take THOUSANDS to show a p value big enough to show a statistical difference to determine if it is working or not. What I was "trying" to point out was even if it is working, the bump is so small as to be indistinguishable and irrelevant. To be honest, when players are complaining about luck not working or it works but it sucks, they are really commenting upon the possible 10% increase in property intensity. If you open say and level 4 chest, it contains items ranging from lesser magic items (rarely) up to Legendary Artifacts (even more rare). What this should tell you is that there is a HUGE range in the pool of points available for distribution, ranging from very low (hence Lesser Magic items) up to pretty high (Legendary Artifact level). If the pool starts as low, a 10% per attribute will still leave it in the "piss poor" range. Only the few items which luckily are generated with a pool at the high end are somehow going to become "good" with a 10% bump.
     
  18. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
    Professional Alumni

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,673
    Likes Received:
    2,023
    Luck schmuck... Ive havent noticed a difference between wearing one and not since the new loot changes. The new loot is so ridiculous it supersedes luck suits. Personally i would wear a regular suit and kill stuff faster than wear a luck suit at this point. Personally i think they are absolutely worthless.

    However Pre loot change publish... I did notice a significant difference in the intensity of properties when wearing a luck suit.
     
  19. inquisitor

    inquisitor Visitor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    5
    Just out of interest, after the loot change have you been seeing a lot more LOW end stuff? If so the problem may well be that the change in the loot tables spread the range of pool points out too far.
     
    Keith of Sonoma likes this.
  20. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,019
    Likes Received:
    430
    Luck most definately does affect one thing, drops to the backpack. Minor Artifacts from Paragons for instance.
     
  21. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,951
    Likes Received:
    5,435
    The RNG for UO has been borked from the beginning... at one time they discussed fixing it and updating it but as far as I know that has NEVER been done.
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  22. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,621
    Likes Received:
    1,382
    I get minor drops from paragons all of the time, and I never wear a luck suit on Siege unless I know everyone else is in bed, and then I go places other than Ilsh. :)
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  23. King Greg

    King Greg Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    276
    Hmm.... The luck shouldn't be so embedded that you can't mess with it. Should be a pretty straight forward system. You Make the Luck Just Bump up The Random Number Generator for Determining Things. So lets say the cap on luck on suits is 2410 now, the RNG goes from 0 - 1000, to get your luck to increase the RNG By 20% you would need 2410 = 200.

    Scaled Luck = Luck * 200 / 2410

    Obviously Statue + Honor would be an even Further Boost.

    - Calculation for # Of Mods
    If RNG + (Scaled Luck) > XXX
    Max Properties + 1

    - Calculation on Each Property
    Property intensity = ( RNG + Scaled Luck ) / 1000 {obviously capped}

    If I were coding this, I would just of created something simple so you could choose whether you wanted the hard RNG, or the Luck Modified one. That way you can always modify how the luck effects the RNG without having to Rip Apart all your code.
     
  24. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    2,285
    You would hope so but UO is what it is with far to many cooks in the kitchen and changing chefs in the middle of a meal, the right hand has lost track what the left hand even looks like much less what it is doing.
     
    Lord Gandalf, jopromol and Scribbles like this.
  25. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    This is a timely discussion for me, as I was just preparing to make armor for new characters on a new shard. After spending so much time reforging a luck suit last time and seeing so little benefit, I'm planning to use the imbuing slots for a more useful attribute this time around.
     
  26. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    2,285
    Glad we could help. The only people that have had and still do have LUCK work for them is Origin selling Forged Metal Tools because this is 100% the only way to make one of these MAX LUCK suits and it takes a min of 6 charges. I have a MAX LUCK suit and it has really done nothing that I can tell. Luck in game is the same as luck out of game, you either have it or you don't. Either the RNG likes you or it doesn't.
     
    Yadd of Legends and Lord Gandalf like this.
  27. zamot

    zamot Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    41
    Luck works when mining for the saltpeter. I get way more when wearing the luck suit while mining for this
     
  28. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    999
    Actually, that IS NOT what he said. I am so tired of people passing the same incorrect information about what was said.

    (just cutting and pasting a response I had from a thread like this from 4 years ago)
    The thing is, the luck system has been pretty much completely reworked since that time, so any comments Draconi made OVER 4 years ago don't mean a darn thing.
     
    King Greg likes this.
  29. JoO

    JoO Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    21
    I don't have a transcript laying around so I can't dispute what was or what was not said. I feel confident of my recollection of the RNG comments. However, what dev said what doesn't matter as much as the fact that loot acquired while wearing a copious amount of luck is relatively indistinguishable from that acquired with little to no luck. I feel like if luck is to be THE pvm stat then at extreme ends of the spectrum the difference should be very noticeable.
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  30. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    2,285
    Sorry but that is NOT what Draconi said. He stated flat out that LUCK was broken and everything was so tied together that it would never be fixed. Please show any report from any dev that states they have fixed Luck, they haven't. Provide us with a link to your so called quote.
     
  31. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,390
    Likes Received:
    478
    @Kyronix @Mesanna

    Can you put this thread to rest and let us know what is and isn't working?
     
    cholupa likes this.
  32. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    999
    Ummm, actually, that is what he said, direct quote. But, I really don't care if you believe me or not. I posted links a while ago, and I don't feel the need to prove anything. Either you believe or you don't. *shrug*.
     
  33. Loriel

    Loriel Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    29
    I think a big point about luck is that you cannot buy it....

    Sure you can spend 10m+ per 190 luck piece but what about the other meta scores running in the background that are secret and privy only to the inner workings of the dev team.

    That is important because in essence it means you could be making your own luck.

    What about the craftsmen that make luck suits, do their meta scores affect the creation of the suit... say they are locked into the particular pattern on the RNG of that craftsman perhaps :)

    Are Fame and Karma used as part of that pattern... Pretty certain they are... along with all of the visible characteristics and digits that make up each of your characters and the characters of your party.

    Ever heard of Beginners Luck ? Perhaps the first time you visit an area the percentage chance shoots up.

    I watched Casino last night and despite its gruesome and visceral content one thing struck as being fairly poignant with regards to this conversation.

    The scene when the slot manager gets fired because 3 machines paid out in short succession... Just good luck or because the machines were rigged it isn't clear what the truth is about that but one thing is clear is that when the boundaries were blurred, the intentions of the slot manager perhaps charmed towards a favourable result to the customers, that is the real reason he gets fired.

    Did the punters make their own luck to determine the outcome of the slot machines or was it pure chance and did they do it in the right way or was it underhanded ?
     
  34. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    2,285
    It is not a problem with luck itself, the problem is the makers of UO told us that we could enhance our "LUCK" greatly by wearing some very high end luck suits and to make these you need one of these Forged Metal Tool @ $9.99. They sold us a bill of goods and charged us RL money and then admitted because of the RNG that luck does not work. With the high end "LUCK" suit of 2410 (needs tool to make) you have a 75% chance and as many, I mean many can attest to the fact that this is total BS and has been from day one of this "ENHANCEMENT". Believe what you wish but UO convinced that is is possible to improve on ones "LUCK" in game at the cost of $9.99 and in fact the only people so far that has the "LUCK" is UO by getting yet more money out of us for a product that didn't/still doesn't work.
     
  35. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    2,905
    All of those things would have to be programmed into the system you know, it won't just happen on its own, and since no one in any explanation of luck has mentioned anything other than luck being its own thing, and the fact that no other game system has anywhere near that level of complex interplay, I think its safe to assume none of that is the case.

    I think with luck, as it was explained on like page 1 a lot of times it WILL be useless. It only has a chance to bump up items on a corpse, number of properties on an item, and intensity of those properties, and it can't exceed the caps. So if you hunt bosses and stuff, the loot levels they naturally have are probably already pretty close to the top, so I have a feeling most of the time luck does nothing.

    If you were fighting something like... a dragon, or a blood elemental... then it might. Of course it's only a CHANCE that it might, so you deal with the rng of the chance hitting, and the real life luck that if the chance goes off it has an appropriate parameter to take effect on. But really, no one farms things like that anymore, so I would imagine that luck is basically a useless stat, because everyone just hunts the top 5% monsters.

    It would be nice if a dev clearly explained it, but really, I don't think its anything to fret over, or spend bagillions trying to max out. No matter the explanation, it clearly doesn't play a huge role.
     
  36. Loriel

    Loriel Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    29
    The forged metal tool is good for making those suits and other enhanced items but like I said you cannot buy luck, in fact that is almost the opposite of how luck really works, suggesting otherwise is counter intuitive.

    Look up a dictionary definition and you'll understand a lot better what I mean.

    What one characters luck score means compared to someone else's can be on a completely different scale, just remember that and temper your anger with good sense.

    What you are doing every time you pay for a forged metal tool to make a luck suit is take a gamble on the slot machines at a casino, there is no guarantee you are going to win any more than the next person to do the same thing.

    For example, when the RNG includes all the people with the "same" 190 luck suit, clean up rings, mempo of fortune etc build, it could be looking at those characters and classing them as the same character just different instances of it.

    Think of luck as just another way that the RNG tracks yours/anyone's progression and generates further results from that.
     
  37. Loriel

    Loriel Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    29
    Take into account also the number of times a particular character runs through the same boss sequence and also the number of times that boss has been looted per day etc.

    Chance is really the hardest thing to get a handle on in terms of statistics just because it is so variable according to circumstance.
     
  38. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    2,905
    I for one don't feel that way at all. I don't think they ever even suggested that you must have a max luck or super high luck suit for any reason, and certainly not one so high that you feel you must spend money on a shop item to create it. Black helicopters. :p
     
  39. Loriel

    Loriel Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    29
    Think of a maxed out luck suit as giving you a better opportunity but not a better chance and you will have a better grasp of what I am talking about.
     
  40. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    2,905
    Not unless they program it. The REAL LIFE luck of one person will be different than anyone else, but that has nothing to do with how the GAME SYSTEM luck works any more than it does with any other game system.

    Actually its really the exact same result, not a gamble. If stat x gives x% boost per point... that's what it does, and it does it the same for everyone. When two people with the same stat have different results, its because of real life "luck". The mechanics of the system are exactly the same.

    The RNG doesn't do anything but.. generate a random number. That's all it does. It doesn't track players, it doesn't compare players... It called when a certain function demands it, it spits out a number, and that number is then used to determine an effect

    Luck is just a level check for a roll. If the roll is higher than luck, nothing happens. If the roll is lower than luck, something does.
     
  41. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    2,905
    Could you explain how you differentiate better chance and a better opportunity are different in terms of game systems.

    I dunno. It all seems pretty cut and dry to me. Luck triggers or it doesn't. It's effect takes effect if it can, it it can't it doesn't.
     
  42. Loriel

    Loriel Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    29
    One more thing... chance is not luck and the moment you start attaching arbitrary numbers you start fixing values onto a data current that is so vast, fluid and ever changing that you may just end up with what everyone else has and not what you really want.
     
  43. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    2,905
    Oh, well, please illuminate me wise one! :p
     
    Merlin likes this.
  44. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    What?
     
  45. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    2,905
    You measured out something, yes, but it's really seems to just be esoteric rambling on the nature of quantum chance, which of course, is not helpful to the discussion of the topic on the character stat "LUCK". On top of that you made some assumption on how game systems interact, which are incorrect, even though I assume you meant how in the course of causation one players/persons actions in the world may have some strange effect on the results of the whole system, which of course is just baseless nonsense.

    If you want to talk about how the actual game system work, on the level of the game... feel free.
     
  46. Loriel

    Loriel Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    29
    Lol do you see the game as just isolated players randomly doing things without the interaction of others as part of the mechanic ?
     
  47. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    2,905
    Yes... unless there is a mechanic in place that allows them to interact. Things don't just "happen". They have to be coded in.
     
  48. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    2,905
    So you think that the game just sort of... invents its own system features then? Bugs are one thing, but system interplay like you suggest doesn't just happen on it's own. It would be a whole hell of a lot of work to get it to happen on purpose.

    Are you one of those people who are afraid that robots will one day rise up and destroy us, because they just... evolve? It doesn't work that way.
     
  49. Loriel

    Loriel Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    29
    Think of the RNG as a big clock that charts everything that happens in UO... I can't really simplify it further than that.
     
  50. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,508
    Likes Received:
    2,905
    Except for UO... the game we are talking about, and even if he had, to the best of my knowledge he wasn't working on the project when it launched let alone when Luck was conceived.

    Right... because the watch maker designed them all to interact with one another, and built it to those specifications. It didn't happen on accident.

    That doesn't mean that is IS either. Seeing as there as no evidence to suggest that something else is going on than what has been explained... there is no reason to believe other than fancy.