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LumberJack - A submission, a request and a proposal.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Petra Fyde, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    A miner, mining for an hour daily for a week will have a certainty of finding at least a small amount of valorite. A lumberjack can chop trees daily for several weeks without finding even one tree of Frostwood.

    We submit:
    that this is more rare than intended.

    We request:
    that, if possible, the spawning percentages for rare woods be re-examined with a view to raising them slightly.

    We propose:
    a new item 'dryad's hatchet' (name and basic idea from Kiminality, expanded) working in the same way as a gargoyle's pickaxe, spawning on reapers at a similar spawning rate as the picks, improving the resource by one level, having a number of uses and having a chance to spawn a 'vengeful treefellow' (tree fellow guardian without the negative karma).'

    (more development intensive possibility: Oak, Ash, Yew, Heartwood, Bloodwood and Frostwood Treefellows).

    To answer the question other posters may ask: Who's 'we'? Kiminality and myself.
     
  2. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    I would love to see this introduced! Just rehue a hatchet and make it semi-rare loot on reapers!


    Some weeks this isn't true. There are days I go a couple of hours mining up salt peter and I don't see any ores higher than bronze.
     
  3. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Some days, yes. But have you gone a full week without finding any?
     
  4. I think that's a great idea!

    Perhaps the hatchet or lumberjack tool have a large number of limited uses, say 1,000 or 10,000 uses, before it breaks. This would make it a consumable so that there is a continuing market for the item.
     
  5. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Actually, I meant it to be virtually identical to a gargoyle pick, similar number of uses, similar spawning frequency, on a creature that's similar pvm level - ie reapers. Gives people a reason to hunt reapers too.
     
  6. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    I have gone a week w/o finding naturally occuring valorite.I had to use a garg pickax or a prospectors tool to make it be valorite.

    Edit: If I were not after saltpeter,I would not bother mining at all. When the devs "fixed" the locations and frequency of where the higher-end ores spawned,they hurt the honest miner more than the afk scripter.A mining cheat program doesn't care that it takes 12 hours to find one quality val spawn point. Any honest miner would have given up a long time before.
     
  7. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    You can add me to that list of yours :D

    http://vboards.stratics.com/1106197-post27.html
     
  8. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    :) I just didn't want to give the impression I was presuming to speak on behalf of all lumberjacks, or even as a representative of Stratics. This is just me, the avid UO player.
     
  9. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    I about went into cardiac arrest in shock to actually get frostwood on Ocllo the other day on Siege. Course that was only one 10 frostwood log, and that does not even make a darn bench !

    Then I hit a tree in my yard on Chesapeake, later, got green Heartwood and nearly fainted to see that too.

    Most of the time it is plain ol' wood and oak heck I am barely getting enough Ash wood anymore. :(

    I would go for evil treefellow, but you can have ye reapers, they hate me & kill my lil lumberjacker ! They have lousy crabby personalities them reapers. SOOO you go kill em with ye magic resists, then sell me, one of the new wonderous hatchets ya get off em as loots ! :)

    It would be nice to have a way to get more colored higher end wood though, somehow someway and colored GRANITE also !
     
  10. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    Being a relatively new lumberjack (less than two months), I have to...

    /sign

    Good idea!
     
  11. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    works for me.. and they need to up the rates of rare wood

    and yes its ******** that the current state of mining/lumberjacking hurts actual live players and makes scripting almost necessary; or at the very least hurts scripters far less than live players
     
  12. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    The road that connects the two highland boura has three frost hit trees.

    The upper 4 woods should come from treefolk spawned from reaper axes.




    Over a year before they released the new woods I sent in a long write up on Lumberjacking. With it mirroring mining ways to aviod the then current BS with script mining. The greatest clue they don't play the game or have a clue is the IDOC chest found with a bag of 56 Vesper Museum high ends and a bag with 47 spread Library glasses weeks after ML release. The saddest thing about Lumber jacking and the turn in is they wasted a chance to trap and strike fear into cheaters. A handfull of GMs with backbones and the Frostwood/Valorite locations could of showed for once that they care a fraction as much as we do about UO.

    Just go back in UOHall to the post after ML release till now. They don't give a rats ass about common knowledge reminders from the experienced player base.
     
  13. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    This is a good idea.

    Of course it wouldn't be mutually exclusive to up the drop rate of the rare woods.

    -Galen's player
     
  14. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    I must say that I am just so damn tired that all the previously nice and relaxing gathering professions get turned into half combat situations...fishing, mining and now proposed for lumberjacking. I miss the days where you could just go in and take an hours relaxing mining or fishing.

    Why are people so deadset on those resources being super rare? They don't really give significant benefits as such. The days with static resources were pretty good compared to now.
     
  15. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    hmm, that's not quite true.

    I have asked that the percentage chances be re-examined. If that could be granted I'd be happy.

    The proposal is seperate, just an idea. No one would be forced to use the hatchet, if it was introduced. Just as no one is forced to use gargoyle picks. I don't use those myself because my miner doesn't have the skills to despatch an ore elemental.
     
  16. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Under your proposal, and under the current system you're modeling it after, having a combat crafter/gatherer is optional. Once upon a time it wasn't.

    Your proposal should be enacted.

    -Galen's player
     
  17. Kas Althume

    Kas Althume Crazed Zealot
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  18. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    A submissive lumberjack proposal? Man, you folks just won't let a guy sleep!

    Now what does that remind me of......

    [​IMG]

    Oh, and yes, I like it.
     
  19. gortman

    gortman Sage
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    I vote for this idea - it's a good one in my book. Might also be nice to see the dryad's hatchet added to the rewards table for completing certain Heartwood quests.
     
  20. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    /good Idea
     
  21. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Thanks, both of ya. I think it's an exciting idea.
    Y'all thought this up, keep expanding on ideas please.

    Shame WE're having to do a DEV's job - You'd think they could at Least participate in this a little?(they'll make it look like all their idea anyways, so why not). They can contribute fundamentals, ideas and methods that many of us can't realize. They implemented a change and it's not working right. Time to be accountable.

    adjust spawn of resources - didn't they already do this once since the big change? Maybe they went the wrong way, or put that dreaded decimal point in the wrong place, (we know how they are).

    The 'vengeful treefellow', I like that - How Tough? Regular ones are plenty tough enough, don't make it like a Valorite Elemental, or it'll simply become a waste. With static spots, you could come w/ a group to fight at a hopeful spawn, those group outings are gone forever as it stands.

    What I think will happen :
    if add the wood tool, then up's resource rarity to compensate, 'to keep the balance'.
    're-visits' spawn of wood/ore resources -says it's 'fine or we made a Minor adjustment.

    Agreed, scripters were stopped from going from static area to static area, but now they just collect Everything - whole huge areas. If an ele/guardian pops, they'll simply recall. Thinking of static, regular wood and iron ore are static . Ex. how many boards or iron ingots would you like? Goes to town and buys 'em, pretty easy, done. I don't recombine iron ore for greater ingot yield anymore, It's almost a nuisance and usually left on the ground - no balance there. Great for training since there's an Enormous amount of both regular wood & iron.

    A greater mongbat is tough enough for a lot of mules. 'I' transfer on/off resource gathering skills to my fighter w/ a dummy char and a half dozen soulstones, so tough is not really in my vocabulary, but I think Most people don't have this luxury. Also think if you Only had ONE char(siege). how would it be done? I Don't want more BOD's either, what a PITA. Lumber Tools are both Cool and Necessary. And if they make 2 types of tools to raise the colors(as there is for mining), let's not do that either - use one, or the other, not both. Carrying a bunch of tools seems silly to me, and anal.
     
  22. unified

    unified Guest

    Wait a minute ... there is such a thing as Frostwood?

    /Signed.:thumbup1:
     
  23. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    I had runes marked for my mining and lumberjacking. I hit the same trees and spots for days. Now sometimes I be lucky and finally get frostwood or valorite. I noticed if I mined valorite the spot would stay hot for at least an hour easy. Frostwood I be lucky to hit the tree 3 times or less before it change into something else. Random spawning of resources sucked. I had better chances with mining by mining over and over but did the same with lumberjacking and not the same success.

    Great idea Petra. Good one :)
     
  24. "We" +1
    /signed Fayled Dhreams

    (moves loot table and spawners HIGHER on list)
     
  25. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    OP. Love this idea. LJ wont be so boring.
     
  26. Umfufu

    Umfufu Journeyman
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    /signed

    It would be nice if the devs reviewed the % chances of getting the higher end woods.

    I like the idea of the hatchet for the gargoyle pickaxe
    Would also be nice to have a lumber prospector saw as for the mining one to bring lumbering fully in par with the mining.

    Tbh I do not have much to complain about mining, except I would like to see the option to set the shovel to mine stone only.

    I hope this thread catches someones attention.
     
  27. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    They need to normalize the wood scale to match the rarity of the ore scale.

    Frostwood <=> Valorite <-- Maximum Rarity
    Everything in between <-- Evenly spaced out over the continuum
    Normal Wood <=> Iron <-- Minimum Rarity
    I miss the colored ore elemental spawn in Ilshenar. Not really sure why they took it out.

    What they need to do is modify all elemental and treefellow spawns so that the chance for a particular type to spawn is equivalent to the resource rarity level. Example: Say that Valorite and Frostwood are normalized to both have a 1% chance to spawn as a resource. Earth Elementals should have a 1% chance to spawn as a Valorite Elemental, and Treefellows should have a 1% chance to spawn as a Frostwood Treefellow.
    Lumberjacking has no equivalent to these items. Hence the "Dryad Hatchet" idea.
    Granite needs to default to only be of the maximum ore type in the vein. They give ore an extra stage of rarity by making you get both iron and colored ore from any colored ore vein. Granite already possesses an extra level of rarity (you don't get any on about 80% of your swings) so making plain granite spawn in colored ore veins gives it three stages of rarity instead of the standard two, which is just annoying.
     
  28. Borric

    Borric Seasoned Veteran
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    Yes, this is a great idea. Wood spawn chance definitely needs to be looked at.

    With the above, and the hatchet, I just might lumberjack again. We have been asking for these tools since "the change."
     
  29. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I'm missing this whole rarity rankings of ore and lumber. Why is it Val/Frost is the most rare, only because Dev's made the spawn rate that way?? When I use color, I match it to the resists of what I'm going to fight. I use Bronze the most, then Verite and Agapite. Almost Never Gold, unless it's deco (would use for luck, but success rate=RARE) Val is a kinda middle of the road trade off for resists and gets used very seldom. I don't even use wood anymore so not sure if it's the same as ores(usefulness-wise) or not. I have plenty of ore/boards to use if I need them, but what would I use any of it on? Speciality weaps? Easier to just get a slayer, or imbue. Armor? I haven't worn colored armor in Years. But I still like to chop/mine the resources when at times. Seems most useful/wanted/needed would be rarest?
     
  30. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    I agree completely that we need an LJ version of the garg ax. I also think the Devs should make an adjustment to the spawn rates of both Mining and Lumberjacking. The vet ore cart and fallen log should never be depended upon for the higher end ore/wood.
     
  31. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    oh yeah, forgot about the ore cart, Why should we have to use a vet reward to get something we should be able to get in-game? Enhanced bandies - Useful. Random gems or ore - whatever! that tells me they Know the spawn rates are screwed. mining for gems, same thing, Worthless
     
  32. in about a months span, on a humani have farmed:

    300,000 plain wood
    70,000 oak
    14,000 yew
    4,000 heartwood
    1,500 bloodwood
    3,900 frostwood

    not sure if this helps or hurts the estimates of percentages or not but that's what i've gotten. while rare, it is still possible to find frost/blood/heartwood.

    i'm all for an investigation to see if the rates are correct, but i haven't seen much of a reason to up the percentage. i'm going to assume an elf can produce much more special wood than my human character.
     
  33. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    I liked it better how it was originally.

    Please revert back to before randomised resources and have an account bound quota system.
     
  34. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    So what's the verdict here? Wait to see if a Dev will even acknowledge our frustrations? Wait just how long? How many months? It won't be years, that's for sure, not for me anyways. Then what if they say it's working as intended? Flush the skill and either become a scripter, or buy from a scripter?
    Took me barely a month to flush an entire group of skills after the t-map changes, I'm kinda over that and willing to press that "Remove all skill points from this stone and DO NOT absorb them" again. I've already trashed my librarys, might as well finish it off eh?
    Besides, they've already been down this road before, THIS is the result - think they're gonna go back and look yet Again, Possibly admitting they, or 'something' is askew? HAH!
    Make 'em static & burn scripters, not customers
     
  35. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    /signed
    +1
    /Like

    etc etc etc.

    Basically, add me to the list as well.
     
  36. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    oh yeah, forgot about the ore cart, Why should we have to use a vet reward to get something we should be able to get in-game?

    If the Ore Cart replaces your mining, you're NOT doing a whole lot of mining to begin with (which makes it no wonder why you never find Valorite).

    Mining is FINE

    Lumberjacking needs the attention.

    The carts by and large are NOT that big of a deal, I have a lot of them and they in no way are able to keep up with what I can do manually (I have the numbers crunched in another thread on the same subject).

    The Log on the other hand... while it doesn't give numbers, it at least gives Frostwood :p
     
  37. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    you pointing to me?, I don't have a cart, never have, never will - I also mine in Fel (just not always). so since you use the log to get frost, all you need is a tool, and it'll ALL be fine, right?
     
  38. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Nope. Just showing that the issue isn't mining, it's lumberjacking.

    Quite frankly it's MUCH easier to find higher end ore than higher end wood.

    So while I have the ore carts, they in no way can match what I can do manually mining.

    The same basically holds true for stumps, however lumberjacking have several DISADVANTAGE in comparison to mining (a seemingly harsher distribution of resource types, lack of "bump" tools, and lack of "elementals"). Those disadvantages make the stump actually work better than the carts, but when you run the numbers, neither can really match the numbers that manually harvesting can put forward.

    Basically, the vet rewards do not effectively REPLACE harvesting the resource manually.

    Though they do make a good augment to it.
     
  39. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    ok, you win. and you helped me make a decision towards a couple skills, thank you.
    Soo w/ that said, those #'s anna anomalous posted are probably what's intended, Y'all quit whinning, and get to to hunting those trees and enjoy yourselves in that grind. If you want it easy, play on Test. Why ruin a good rare by increasing the spawn rate even further? It's higher now than it was initially. and let's go ahead and make upper ores Equally rare, things have to be equal and balanced
     
  40. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    /signed

    This may not affect you guys as much on prodo where you make an item an it's eternally with you, but on siege where I have to regularly make new gear it's incredibly hard to keep stocked..

    I enjoy using wood armor, it has nice resists and nice bonuses, but it takes me 6-8 hours a week lumberjacking just to keep enough stock.....not to mention needing enough bark fragments.

    And rare...please, go check luna vendors on your respective shards..and ever wondered how some people get so many library tokens to sell? (Some, not everyone of course) Lets just say while a %1 chance in 6 hours doesn't give you much wood....when you do it 24/7 365 it's a considerable amount. And these "unsleeping" miners and lumberjacks can remember where they found the rare woods and continue to harvest until it changes. For those of us who need to work and sleep that is incredibly hard to do.

    I've found frostwood twice in the past 6 months, once near yew which gave me a grand total of 20 logs before turning to an oak tree, and once the tree right in front of my island house was giving 20 frostwood per harvest, got a good 200 wood off that one before it changed to an ash tree. (you ever notice ash, yew, and lower trees tend to stay whatever they are for weeks but blood, frost, and heart seem to immediately change after one harvest? Could just be the RNG messing with my mind again though...)
     
  41. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    If the ore carts are not a 'big deal',then why do you have alot of them?
     
  42. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    I just want to throw in my $.02 that the request needs to explicitly state nothing should be changed to make mining worse. My fear is they'll do something like add your proposed hatchets and then throw in a stealth nerf to gargoyle pick axes at the same time.
     
  43. Borric

    Borric Seasoned Veteran
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    This is always what happens. We ask for one thing, they give the opposite.