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Mages To Strong!!!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by WildWobble, Jul 30, 2008.

  1. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    This is a post for all the ppl out there who have an understanding of the fact that mages are just way to powerfull and need to be nerfed (i make this post to hopefully shut you anti vampire ppl up) lets start with the facts that mages are the most powerful in pvp hands down. Why you ask well for one thing they never miss! also they heal for 40+ almost instantly add in necro and its just nasty evil omen para anyone!! stop ripping on +skill to gain an advantage its needed for the poor warriors to be able to compete with the mages bards tamers of the land the only ones who have any right to rip on the rest of the builds would be the poor thief who got rammed in the wrong way big time long ago..
    And lets also take into account MAGE WEAPONS getting the advantage of 120 skill with a weapon on a character who has never hefted a sword staff dagger or bow in there entire existance is just wrong if they decide to nerf vamp form then do us all a favor and scrap mage weapons!! all of them!! oh its not the fact that the mage weapons make a huge dent in other peoples armor its the fact the mage gains the defence of a weapon skill with no skill at all!!
    Use best weapon skill is a neet mod warriors get to play with but its not on a bow so we loose out there and if by some chance you went with wrestle it wont help you so tell me why is it you all feel the vamp is to strong when mages are the ones that need to be nerfed more then anything

    I for one will quite this silly game if they do decide to change how vamp form works simply because i don't desire to spend 100's of hours reworking my warrior which is my favorite character only to become 1/2 As good as i once was, when all you whiny mages get staff's of pyro's handed to you just so you can drop wrestle and now have an extra 120 skill points without looseing any of the defence of a weapon skill! I do know this unless the mage is a terrible player they will loose mabe 100x less in insurance then a warrior does in a week shoot some days i will loose 200k if i am feeling bold as a warrior as a mage i may die once in a blue moon thanx to invis and teleport.
     
  2. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
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    They should just go ahead and make vampires an official race. It won't be reserved for people who've just gathered a specific set of items. Dexers won't have to fumble with items every time they die and necrmancers will still be able to toggle in and out, depending on the situation.

    Wonky logic goes away and everyone goes home happy.

    :scholar:
     
  3. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Thanks, I needed a good laugh :)
     
  4. Kill Face

    Kill Face Guest

    I'd have to disagree. Besides with warriors weapons always continue to get better. There is always a better weapon out there. I think you should get better with your dexer before you start blaming the game. There are a lot of dexers that do very well.
     
  5. mages spells can be disrupted however a dexxers swing can not. A Player has to hit keys none stop and time everything right as a dexxer does not. A mage take skill to play as a dexxer takes very little to none.

    A dexxer with Chiv and FC/FCR can cast close wounds faster then a mage can cast mini heal and the close wounds heals for 30+ while a mini heal only heals 9-12.

    Evil Omen isnt Mage thats necro. Necro is over powered. if you wanted to see over powered mages you should have played when AoS first came out and mages could do Exp FS ebolt Poison in less time then it takes to do a exp fs now in days.

    COmplaining about Mage weapons is worthless as you cant use the specs on them. Most mages i know have REAL weapon skill. I myself have 120 fencing on my mage.

    a dexxer can do more damage then a mage with out being interupted. like this:

    My Mage 120 fencing 120 parry 80 dex (unbuffed) 59% DCI with 67 Phy resist and archers hit me for 37-40 + another 13-15 when the hit spell on thier weapon goes off. Now dexxers can swing about once every second. do the math on that. If the dexxer gets lucky and hits back to back in less then a second im toast if they also get those hit spells off. 3 to 4 hits landed back to back and its 100% im toast unless i am pot chugging.

    You cant stop the dexxers swing however if a mage goes to cast ex or fs and gets hit that was a wasted 2-3 seconds.

    EA said they nerfed AI's at 35 yet dexxers are still doing over 35 damage ai's.
    Stop crying because your gimp char is getting nerfed. Mages keep getting shafted due to dexxers whining. Dexxers are so over powered and they are still complaining about mages.

    and 5 mages casting fs on you doesnt count as a over powered temp. its no different then 5 steath archers popping out and 1 hitting dismount while the other 4 hit AI.

    ~Blade
     
  6. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Reading the OP more carefully, it sounds like he is serious. The first thing that popped in my mind while reading it was a mage soloing a peerless with a mage weapon.

    The biggest argument against vamp form working the way it does is that it allows people to solo peerless and pretty much everything else in the game very easily.

    On the topic of mage weapons... I'd have to agree that they are a problem, but I don't see this as a mage problem. I see it as an item problem. A mage weapon caster with high DCI is ridiculously difficult to kill. Sure, a disarm helps a lot if it lands, but they just run away. I don't see mage weapons as being as serious of an issue as vamp form is because you won't see mages using their mage weapons to defeat content that's not supposed to be soloable. Also, mage weapons require a mage to either sacrifice 2 hand slots, or at least 20 magery. To make up that magery loss, the mage is required to wear a +skill item, which greatly limits his options in suit building.

    I don't see vamp form as a necro problem, becuase the abuse is most prevalent among non-necros. I see it as a problem of how necro forms persist even if you no longer fit the criteria required to enter those forms.

    Mages aren't overpowered, but they are versatile. Mages have the opportunity to make more decisions, which gives them options in more situations. Dexers tend to be more linear; requiring a different set of skills.

    Also, with HLD and HCI working they way they do, dexers are a lot more likely to land sure hits than they were when dexer vs mage was originally balanced. The original balance was based on a mage hitting every time and a dexer missing roughly half the time (insted of 80% of the time). That balance was also based on mages running out of mana. Also, the change to how parry works comes into the mix, because it allows characters to completely nullify a % of dexer attacks. The whole system is very complex and imo surprisingly well balanced for as complicated as it is (though obviously not completely balanced)


    So anyway, you're making an apples to oranges comparison and being horribly biased. You have a valid point, but I don't think it's nearly as valid as you seem to think it is.
     
  7. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    just need to make 2 new necro spells mortal enemy (EOO but for a necro) and mabe an unholy power spell that does the same as concecrate and you know what all us vamps will happily drop our 50-80 chiv to take necro up to 99 and still be able to kick butt as warriors as it is sampires vampallies are very tough to make functional with the skill's needed to be able to be affective in combat! Or make healing a better skill its nice i know but seriously when can you ever heal poison with a bandage the poison should not get cured you should heal dmg
    that you take while your poison'd and have the poison's dmg not healable till its cured threw either a potion or spell. let us heal the dmg we take from things while we fight xheal's work beautifull but that needs 2 people to do and i have noticed that 9 out of 10 people don't know that its acctually a good thing to do and all them mages 9 out of 10 dont know enough to acctually heal the warrior now and then to give the possible outcome of battle more chance of success, the game is ultima online not mages online its supposed to be good to play all the classes and have fun but i am sorry atm its just a chaotic mess of skill's and spells with the mage being the top dog allways in pvp, pvm well they needed to be cut down a notch!



    Also this event going on Melissa the mage is interesting as a sampire i can not solo her she does that knock back thing and heals full in no time flat and hurts alot to fight without fient but my tamer well my big fat draggy and a gift of life in the corrner killed her a few times all by myself (rare to be able to do alone but i did manage it ) so dont think that the vamps are the ones that got overpowerd the dragons well they be the nasty nasty thing thats letting the tamer solo peerless and other big things now. so plz quite ragin on the vamps when its the all kill tactic thats overpowered or the ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev invis (got agro need to break) ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev ev enough with the damn ev's!!! talk about an anoying spell everywhere i go when theres a mage nearby all i see is vas corp por spamed endlessly
     
  8. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Keep saying that after you've watched a maxxed out dexxer get killed toe to toe with a mage casting nothing but Magic Arrow.
     
  9. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    The "Mage Weapon" and "Mage Armor" properties need to be removed from the game. Of course, they can only do this after they fix the armor types problem, I.e. plate defense > leather armor defense, etc, etc.

    The rest of the original post is pure shenanigans.
     
  10. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    You just lost all credibility. Classic.
     
  11. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    Protection evil omen para game over dexer
     
  12. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    Say somthing or butt out ! its a discussion not a thread to voice your quick quips that have no purpose other then to defame the poster
     
  13. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    So you're basically suggesting they introduce some highly exploitable abilities, so you can continue to do the sampire "solo anything" trick? What you're suggesting is to basically give necros the ability to buff their damage, so their leech spells make them invulnerable again while allowing the necro to always hit their target's lowest resist. That's not game balance, son. The fact that you suggested it implies that you have absolutely no idea what game balance looks like.

    I mean the key balancing point of VE is that it's supposed to require a high skill point investment, which would make it naturally limit what other abilities you can use with it. Since VE doesn't enforce that restriction, people use chivalry with it and keep high karma because they're not necros. Also, since VE is a toggle once spell, you don't need to harm your karma to use it. It's clearly a broken spell.

    IMO, the quickest way to bandaid VE while the devs are coming up with a better solution would be to have it drain karma every time you hit something.

    Chivalry obviously doesn't require a very high skill point investment either and for that reason it is probably the most unbalanced skill in the game. I'll gladly take those 4/6 30 hp heals on the run for 80 skill pts lol. It's always weird for me when I play a chiv after having played a mage for a while, because I stop to cast my spells. For chivalry to be balanced, it would have to be changed so that you don't cast chiv spells at the full power until you have 120 skill pts invested in chivalry. Mages have to have 120 eval to get full power out of their mage abilities. Necros have to have 120 SS to get full power out of their necro abilities. The whole design makes absolutely no sense, which is why you almost never see anyone with > 80 chivalry.

    I think it's also asinine that you suggest mages are superior to dexers in pvm. Mages aren't even capable of doing close to the same amount of damage and aren't even remotely as survivable as a sampire or archer. You don't see mages soloing peerless in 10 min or less. I've seen dexers do it... I've done it in 15 on my sampire and I'm not even geared all that well.
     
  14. once again necro being over powered not mages. if you played a mage you would know Evil Omen is not a mage spell but a necro.

    Necro is over powered and added to any temp can mage that temp over powered. Be it a mage or a dexxer.

    ~Blade
     
  15. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I'd be ok with this as long as they introduced a lot of easily-attainable, competitive replacement gear. I mean if they're going to hose my suit, I want to be able to get a replacement without farming for 5 yrs, or buying barbed tools from scripters and dupers.
     
  16. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest


    I've seen people pick up regs off the ground and kill suited players with them...

    some people really stink at uo, so a single example says nothing.
     
  17. Lord Kushmano

    Lord Kushmano Adventurer
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    If Everyone played soem form of Mage.. PvPwise UO wouild be Perfectly balanced. some guild members would have to play wep mages for specuiasl such as mortal etc. etc. quit ur whining about playing a dexer..
    i am a dexer as my main. i have seen many a nerf towards various parts of my playig technique from insta bandies to 35damage AI's to then no evasion etc etc. but it is not about whining it is about adapting..
    however i play a mage for fun. unfortunatly it gets less and less fun everytime they try to balance uo!

    -mage weps are not an issue stop crying about it
    -mage armour is not an issue either. stop whine about that

    the only advantage i see that a mage has.. is he can cross heal his friend. have u ever tried to live v's 2 dexers on a mage when they are hitting ur 120 wrestyle everytime? u cant get a g.heal in there! and lesserheal just isnt fast enough thats for shure!

    however on my dexer i can live through a 3 mage gank quite happily for a good 20 mins befor i mess up and eventually die. the issue currently is not mages being overpowered. but too many people being unskilled at their dexer templates. just slapping on a bow does not consider you a dexer. it considers you a click and follow archer. adapt your template instead of crying all the time
     
  18. How does the mage heal himself if he doesn't cast heal? Bandies?
     
  19. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Are you suggesting that there's more to pvp on a dexer than click n' stick? What the heck! It's supposed to be really easy and mindless. Why do they have to make it all complicated.

    I was about to write a proposal for a new Chivalry spell called "Holy Aura" that is a toggle-on buff that does 20 dmg every second to every negative karma non-friendly target on screen. I'm trying to make the game easier to play here!

    I shouldn't have to think. I should be able to just chase people around and kill them every time. Isn't the fact that I can stay on the same screen as someone reason enough for them to die?

    *please don't think I'm serious*

    I recognize there is skill involved in playing a dexer... it's what separates the ones that cry over things that aren't broken and the ones that dominate.
     
  20. Samaira

    Samaira Lore Master
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    For the love of god, it's called a full stop. You used one, so clearly you know they exist.

    As to your OP, the problem with Vamp is that it is being used in a way that was clearly not intended - the buff is remaining after the required skill to cast is no longer present. I'd love to be able to stone off stealth and stay hidden while moving, but I can't. I'd love to be able to remove my +magery items from my miner and still cast recall, but I can't. Face it - the "skill" is going to get nerfed. Perhaps you should stop whining and start looking for your next gimplate.

    :violin:
     
  21. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    aye poor smiths make a sweet plate armor with massive resists and some regen only to find a tailor made the same thing out of leather which is in my mind is an inferior material to metal at defecting blows or absorbing dmg yet we all wear the leather simply because there is no bouns to the plate either in defence chances or in absorbtion ext.. The smiths out there that do make some cool armor with nice resists and have good mods all learn its going to sit on the vendor indefinitly unless its priced less then the salvage cost of the ingots or has mage armor as a mod
     
  22. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    I'd love to be able to remove my +magery items from my miner and still cast recall, but I can't. Face it -
    :violin:[/QUOTE]

    Oh yea You Can 0 mage skill total jewels and all just need to boost up your necro to wraith form and now you recall without fail! oh look at that


    but thats yet another example of necro gone wrong so its not helping but heres another thing that you may want fixed

    Magic refection with gm scribe

    Stone scribe on and off you will end up with a bouns to your resists thats alot easier to overcome (though it took ages to gm scribe no script) so it feels like its earned but its just wrong! shoot just use reactive armor for a total gain of 6 or if you can deal with the -20 off reflect, you still end up with a net gain of 11 resists
     
  23. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    yes i do know its a necro spell its a easily cast low skill necro spell that many MANY WAY TO MANY mages do throw in just to get an easy cheep kill i see a few true mages now and then but mostly its para cheese that comes around the bend not a proper mage who will actually have fun fighting with you *yes fun is possible when your evenly matched*
     
  24. Erekose

    Erekose Seasoned Veteran
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    Leather should have it's max resists for a suit capped at something lower than 70. I've said that for quite some time. Makes no sense that plate is worthless compared to leather.
     
  25. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    It's been a while since I saw a post in seriousness that claimed Mages were overpowered.
    But after reading I understand it isn't Magery you're talking about, but a mix with Necromancy.

    Why is it that every one out there thinks that if any template other than their main template can beat them at anything, the other template needs nerfed?

    Stop whining about every other template and start learning to be effective with your own.

    10 to 1 the OP carries 1 weapon because it's the LEET weapon of their skill.
    Completely ignoring the fact that in every weapon category there are weapons with specials specifically designed to debilitate spellcasters.
     
  26. Syfka

    Syfka Guest

    Mages overpowered? YES! mages to strong? YES YES and YES! should mages be nerfed a bit? i think so! that all i have to say lol :p
     
  27. Norrar

    Norrar Lore Master
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    are you serious?
    *looks back at scenario* oh no im paralyzed... *trips trapped box* yay im free.

    or...

    oh no im paralyzed, *heal, heal, close wounds chug* im free again
    end case just because "you" cant beat a mage doesnt mean they are overpowered.
     
  28. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    My suggestion would be:

    Nerf mages! Nerf tamers! Nerf necros! Nerf dexxers! NERF 'EM ALL!
    Also nerf Bards, Beggars, Thieves, Murderers, Treasure Hunters and Scribes! To avoid everyone whining about overpowered mules, nerf Carpenters, Alchemists, Tailors and Blacksmiths as well!


    Seriously:
    Just because you can't hack it and have no clue how to utilize your skills properly doesn't mean all others need to be nerfed! To my opinion, the fighting skills are quite balanced. Each one has its advantages and disadvantages. Each disadvantage of my enemy I can utilize for my own advantage.

    (This all applies to PvP only. In PvM some skills really do have advantages.)
     
  29. Stigmatas

    Stigmatas Babbling Loonie
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    NOT EASY! Your misinformed if you think taking on anything, regardless of the form, is easy on a melee template. Not easy.
     
  30. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    Beggars! You son of a...!
     
  31. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    Is this serious or meant as a joke because it is one.

    I have a nox fencer with resisting spells mages get dropped easily. Sampires get dropped easily. Archers get dropped easily...

    Are you going to tell me because my character can handle most others with ease that it is an over powered template?

    No I can't beat ANY template with mine just most and that is how it should be. Mages can't beat every template either.

    However I get the feeling they can beat your template easily...:owned:
     
  32. While I can't talk about PvP, this statement couldn't be more wrong in PvM.
     
  33. Whew....at least my Tinker/Lumberjack/Miner is safe for the moment.....:D
     
  34. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Originally Posted by Blade_Thugluv:
    A mage take skill to play as a dexxer takes very little to none.


    In PvP, a mage is really more difficult to play. You have much more attack combinations to control, and good timing is very important. However, in most PvM situations mages are quite easy to play, as they can easily keep the monster on a safety distance, while a melee fighter constantly has to be careful.
     
  35. legendsguy

    legendsguy Sage
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    the best solution is to get rid of tamers entirely. i wish tamers would realize they are not wanted and that they are merely hiding behind a superdragon because they don't know how to fight. tamers are pathetic.
     
  36. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Now, there we go again. We successfully drew a bow from mage nerfing to tamer nerfing. *sighs*
     
  37. Yeah, gotta watch those shooting tangents.:gun:


    If you're in the way of one, it could give ya a nasty hurtin'. Just remember to keep your head down and you should be ok. Most of the time anyway.... :stretcher:
     
  38. Erekose

    Erekose Seasoned Veteran
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    How about we not nerf anything else until THE BUGS IN THE GAME ARE fixed and until THEY FINISH KR?


    :danceb:
     
  39. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    so what's on the 'wishlist' of nerfs :

    -Sampires
    -Necro's
    -Dexxers
    -Tamers
    -Mages

    wich leaves us with?

    stop crying...pvp was never ment to be balanced.
    You may play any online game you want..in every game that has pvp there are classes that easily win..and classes who have to struggle.

    Anyways for me PvP is dead since 2003.

    I don't think i'm over powered as tamer...since i'm pure PvM.
    But then again i might be 'greedy greedy' to some cause i kill things faster as peacer tamer...i can't help it that i like those skills the most.
     
  40. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    PHP:

    Easy is a realtive term. Compared to soloing a peerless on a tamer, soloing one on a sampire is very easy. Some people would tell you the exact opposite, but I play both character types. I am much more experienced on a tamer and know a lot about tamers. I know the basics about sampires and dexers, etc. I find the dexer a lot easier and lower risk.

    That being said, it takes forever to solo any boss monster on a tamer. Their dmg output is considerably lower than any leech dexer template. High end pvm mages do about the same damage as high end pets (less than packs, more than greater dragon), but it's so much harder to survive on a mage. Mage weapon or not, mages are not overpowered in pvm.
     
  41. Xaphan

    Xaphan Guest

    I think mages have suffered enough nerfs!
     
  42. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I think people throw the word "nerf" around a little too flippantly, which is changing the meaning of the word. The 30 dmg melee cap was a nerf, because it placed a restriction on a system design that wasn't there before. Caps being placed on MR, HPR, DI, LMC, etc were nerfs for the same reason. The recent reduction of pet movement speeds was a nerf (it surprises me anyone still cries about tamers with as slow as pets move).

    Fixing VE is a is a bug fix, because it fixes an obvious exploit. VE was intended to be a high end necro ability, but can be exploited to be used by non-necros.

    I would never suggest that vamp form should be nerfed. I don't think anyone was suggesting that vamp form get nerfed. I think they just suggested that the exploits that use vamp form get fixed. It is an exploit that you can be in vamp form as a non-necro.

    If you build your fortress on sand, don't cry when your foundation erodes away. If you build your template around an exploit, don't cry when the exploit gets fixed.
     
  43. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Do you really expect us to believe this?

    This is impossible, unless the dexxer had no bandaids and almost 0 fire resist.
     
  44. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Trapped Box = New Game
     
  45. Except that Necros never use it because they also have Magery and being in that form wouldn't allow them to be able to cast the spells they need to.


    Who just happen to be the only ones actually using the form. Also, most that use the form keep at least 25 Necro, and in most cases, 35, so a skill investment IS being utilized, technically making those characters "Necros" since they do have the skill actually on the character.

    There is a root cause to the reason it's being used. Don't scream exploit without looking at that root cause and finding a solution to it first, or you'll be nerfing an entire character type and not just a single spell.
     
  46. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Actually, I have 2 characters that are necros and use the spell. Both are dexer shadowknight builds. With vamp + curse weapon, 75% of the dmg you do is a heal to you. It can be quite effective. Those 2 characters don't have chivalry, but they could. One of them has poisoning and the other has dexer dmg buffing skills.

    That's my 2 characters that use VE the way it was intended to be used. Then there's my sampire that rides a pickle and has 80 chivalry, 0 necro 0 SS 120 weapon/bushi/parry, etc. I discovered the quickest path to 120 anat, tactics and swords on that character. I just tanked 8-10 troglodites simultaneously while spamming whirlwind. Every swing of my weapon heals me completely and the gains come like crazy. It's a clear exploit...
     
  47. One more time....2 words:

    Root Cause

    You can't fix one without fixing the other.
     
  48. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    I completly agree with this guy right here on this. Have you ever played a game so completly unbalanced? And i'm asking the people who have played other mmo's with PvP. I for one think it's getting way out of hand when it come to PvP. Ok my HCI is maxed my DCI is maxed I am 120 fencing and 120 archery with 115 tactics and 115 anatomy. Yet some how and I don't know how I can't ever hit a mage. Literally taking 20 shots before I get one to hit in the mean time I have already been hit with 4 flamestrikes god knows how many ebolts and fireballs not to mention the fuking necro's with strangle.

    And if that isn't bad enough lets start talking about efields. Ooo yes how I love to get chased by 5 mages that I can barely hit at all. Only to get para spammed over and over and over and over with a few efields to trap me in then the ever so powerfull poison field. Ahh ok maybe thats tactics but not being able to hit someone while im maxed the **** out everywhere on everything is getting to be pretty old.


    And as far as vamp form goes hmmm I was on a jap shard the other day, I had 4 people with me.. There was one vamp sword guy down there hitting the spawn sucking life hitting spawn sucking life. This guy couldnt be brought down by 4 archers doing nothing but conc blows he worked the spawn to champ discorded the champ and killed it. Thats a bit stupid to.

    Does anyone know of any other games with PvP more unbalanced then UO?
     
  49. Erekose

    Erekose Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

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    Connor. You are correct but you do know that you are just :bdh:
     
  50. Ok, so first....quite = quit? Because if you intend to stop playing = quit, but quite the contrary would be that your all talk and no walk.
    Just trying to figure out that you meant you will stop playing if they change vamp form, which btw I sincerely hope they DO. So on that note, if they do, and you actually back up your rant by stopping your playing of UO....................Can I have yer stuffs?

    Secondly, vamp form SHOULD require 100 REAL skill, not fake. Thats my opinion.

    Third. 100's of hours reworking your pwoor wawwior? Oh cmon, either your clueless as to the methods of skill work, or your just wanting to do some whining of your own.

    Fourthly, I have a 100+ REAL skilled necro dexxer that more than half the time drops them rascally overpowered godlike mages without thinking twice about it. Now I for one do not expect to win 101% of the time, perhaps your expectations are too high my friend?

    Lastly, and most importantly, IMO, ever heard of if ya cant beat em join em?:bowdown:
    Hehehehe
    Peace.:D