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Magic Reflect Nerf. -10 Phys CAP.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lord GOD(GOD), Dec 8, 2010.

?

This change...

  1. Is still good, I will still use Magic Reflect, but for its new (old) use of Reflecting Spells.

    12 vote(s)
    30.8%
  2. Means I will no longer use Magic Reflect at all.

    12 vote(s)
    30.8%
  3. Makes no difference to me.

    15 vote(s)
    38.5%
  1. When I first read the changes I thought great when it wears off my resists will be all over the place, but they fixed that problem (yay no need to rebuild suit without Reactive Armor/Magic Reflect bonus), and instead created an entirely new one.

    Magic Reflect now gives -10 Physical Resist CAP.

    Guess I'm rebuilding after all.
     
  2. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    No you dont. As long as you are OK with running 60 physical all the time. Those dexers with ornate axes and archers dismounting with a HXbow out there doesnt hit that hard. You will be fine.

    They probably did it under the idea that a mage have a choice to be shortly invincible vs other mages but a tad weaker vs dexers. Thus making magic reflect more situational.

    In classic everyone and their mom and their cousins regardless of mages dexers or mules. As long as they have more than 70 magery will have magic reflect activated.
     
  3. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    I rarely used magic reflect before and never built my suits around it. But it seems to me they should have gone with someone's idea of splitting the spell. Leave the old as it was and then have the new spell by tweaking an unused one like Arch protection. Lastly with the -10 cap it seems they want it to be used situationally and cast in the moment, rather than leave it on all the time.
     
  4. I think they should let Reactive Armor re-raise the cap.
     
  5. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    I can see the change affecting some weaker, nonimbued, suits but if you have access to imbuing or someone who can for you, then there is no need for you to use any resist altering spells to get cap. All 70s is very easy to acquire now, and even with protection on its still pretty easy to hit max. New chars/players may suffer from the change since they can have trouble gettin resists covered on thier suits.
    For most, Magic reflection was a useless spell, at least from what ive seen. Lets try the classic/altered magic reflect and see how fun/tactical it can be. In case it gets reverted though you may want to keep your old magic reflect using suits.


    oh and does the reflect effect work against hit spells?
     
  6. If all I needed was all 70's then there'd be no problem.

    71/80/70/75/75, 100 lrc, 40 lmc, 12 mr, 18 sdi, 45 dci, 2/6, 20 mage, 50 e.p./20 Resist, 25 hp, 19 int, 8 mana, 12 casting focus

    Wraith proof, Corpse Proof.
     
  7. I was thinking of Yumi.
     
  8. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Clearly there should be a easy button.
     
  9. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    that suit is possible without magic reflect, the spell is just the lazy way to get it. You want the power to override corpse skin and wraith forms debuffs then you should have to work for it, not cast one spell when suittin up. Basically you were aiming for a overkill suit for defense, they change the spell and you lose the overkill. Nothin wrong with that, you want the overflow of resists back then redo the suit.
     
  10. No it isn't. It isn't a faction suit.
     
  11. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    oh sorry, you need to get SA and try this thing they call "Imbuing" you can make all kinds of suits and armor with it.

    Needed game changes are happening all around, everyones gonna have to do some reconfiguring on suits and tactics. ADAPT
     
  12. That suit is with Imbuing.

    A -10 Phys cap is not a needed game change.
     
  13. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    If they didn't cap phy resist at 60, then everyone would run about with magic reflect precasted.

    I think the changes are really clever.
     
  14. Actually, forget it, you're right, and I over reacted.

    Its just f'ing irritating having to rebuild all the time, especially when its over something so trivial.
     
  15. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    Perhaps you should spend your time getting good on a mage rather than spend it trying to build the perfect mage suit?
     
  16. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    So after a lot of criticism and providing alternatives, our loved developers did go their stubborn way and decided to break a lot of high end imbued suits without a real need to do so. Thats the problem here, not the need to rebuild a suit or eleven, but that fact that they are creating a problem that does not need to be there in the first place.
    Suit building and ingredient farming is much more fun than actually playing the game i guess ...:yell:
     
  17. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    If your suit was high end, there would be no need to use magic reflection. Lol.
     
  18. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    There is no such thing as a highend imbued suit(IMO). They are all the same with slightly different modifications here and there. Everyone either has a imbuer or should have one by now. It is a question of makeing a spreadsheet and working out what one wants and then making said suit. Getting the correct resists on base items might take a while and if your enhancing the break rates can make you cry but it is just gold the grind but nothing like 3 years back with barbed kits.
     
  19. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    Ok i should not have said high end, lets just say some suits will be rebuild. Better wording for the people that like to pick at such stuff and ignore the rest of the post.
     
  20. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    Make the -10 CAP be affected by gm inscription, gm scribe would make the cap -5 (65physical res)
     
  21. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I think it's a good change. This makes using the spell more situational instead of automatically using it all the time. I also don't get why anyone would have to rebuild a suit, unless they built it to use magic reflect the way it was before, something I don't think most people did, or maybe I'm wrong... :)

    But if you didn't used to run magic reflect it will make no difference. Your new phys cap if you use it will be 60, and overstrengthening that resist won't make any difference as long as your phys resist is 60 or better.
     
  22. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    Right, because that wasn't the entire concern of your post?
     
  23. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    Concern of the post was that its not NECESSARY to break suits and let people either farm or buy ingredients.
    Will stop posting here because of my bad english.
     
  24. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    And logic.
     
  25. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    Thank you. Just wanted to find out if you are a troll or not.
     
  26. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    Want me to submit to a blood test?
     
  27. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    The age of Imbueing is here, Why in the hell would you even consider useing reactive armor or magic reflect to alter resists 70 70 70 70 70 is now the norm on outfits and thats in any form you like now days. How welfare are you if you need magic reflect or reactive armor? And dont tell me its so you can add a bit more buff to the suit you don't need it! 3 mods to buffs 2 to resists on exceptional armor works very well indeed.
     
  28. ikaikaman

    ikaikaman Guest

    played a few hours in TC with Magic Reflection.

    Cap of Phys is limited 60.
    can resits only one spell.
    When broke MagicReflection,We have to wait a minute to remove.
    Of course,Leave Cap of Phys limited 60 all along.


    No one use this spell.
     
  29. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    I used magic resist in the last mage suit I made because it saves me from imbuing as many resists on the suit and instead I can add more of other mods (i.e. Mana increase, Hit point increase). It was a simple tradeoff at the time.

    I think the -10 from the phys resist cap is a bit steep. -5 would have been more reasonable in my opinion.

    -OBSIDIAN-
     
  30. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    So even if you cast magic reflect in situations where it's needed, you will still be stuck with the -10 phys cap for 30 secs until you can recast to bring down reflect?

    Hmm...

    Mages with phys capped at 60...

    How did a minor boost for mages gets nerfed somehow along the way into this?

    More power to warriors, while mages gets the shaft again and this is with a boost that's meant to regain mages some form of edge?

    How did this happen and who asked for it? What's the reasoning behind it?

    I mean, the penalty to actual physical resist I can live with, but reducing the cap is a bit too much.

    At this point, I'd rather they not make any changes to magic reflect...
     
  31. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Some angry people in this thread... stretch your legs and take a walk outside or something! And chill out on the attacks on LG. Dude is a quality guy and has provided soo much help and information to the community.

    Harly has a point... even though I feel this spell is meant to be used in a mage vs. mage duel to give more tactical options, it'll help the melees/archers in a big way. I'm not sure they need any more help to be honest.
     
  32. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    That's something I dont get...
    Yes classic magic ref can be instantly recast by adding a 30 second timer is plenty imo. And why the -10 physical? This change has nothing to do with dexers, in no way the effectiveness of a dexer is lowered by any part of the patch... heck they even raised death strike damage. And also its been confirmed that magic ref does NOT reflect hit spells...

    Well I guess just be careful when you choose to use magic reflect... because HXbow moving shot can now hit you for 50+ easy dismount shot will be closing in on 70... oh and Velocity is also physcial... (velocity will deal 3 extra damage to 60 physical vs 70 at 10 tiles).

    This patch really got me to scratch my head.

    First of all SP plague only triggers off spell damage... yet Nerve Strike, Death Strike and Hit Spell can all trigger SP.

    Gave mage casters a better chance to have magic ref to counter the dreaded mysticism yet purge magic instantly removes the ref and by turning it on you are also subjected to a minimum of 30 second where dexers can seriously hurt you... not like they dont already hurt even with 70 physcial.

    Death strike went from a huge nerf to a 20% buff? With reduced skill points requirements too.

    Detector can block stealthers to rehide for 1 to 2 second... but the reuse timer for detect hidden is 300% longer than the rehide delay? And that's 20% chance to detect and everytime you fail you wait for 6 second cooldown.

    Spending 100 points in lumberjacking and give up the ability to chug when you use your main weapons (axes) you are rewarded with 5-6 extra damage once every 20 swings...

    Need me to go on? :yell:
     
  33. ziggy29

    ziggy29 Journeyman
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    Before the capping, one could have built a suit that had base resists of 80/65/65/65/65 and with magic reflect and reflect armor would get to all 70s, the net effect being that physical drops by 10 and all others gain 5. That's 10 "free" additional resists just by keeping the spells cast -- why not use it?

    But now those extra 10 points devoted to physical on the suit -- that could keep you at 70 even after casting these spells -- are wasted, and is something that could have been devoted to something else. And indeed, some people may decide that with this change, they don't even want to use this tactic any more and all the effort they spent creating a suit for it (and the gold/resources) are more or less wasted to the extent they can't easily be "recycled" in a rebuild. And if this was designed to be a nerf for PvP (as many of them seem to be), do mages need to be even less powerful against dexxers? I'm not sure.
     
  34. Macrophage

    Macrophage Journeyman
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    I did exactly that... I have 2 characters relying on magic reflect to get max resists. They overcap the elemental ones, and need magic reflect to cap phy resist. I don't get why they re changing that, it just means I ll have to retire those characters, because I don't want to spend 50 hours to get a new suit on both of them.

    P.S.: There is really lacking an option in your poll. Something like :"I don't like it because it nerfs my suits".
     
  35. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    It cracks me up, These people who are being "totally ruined" by losing the Overcapped resist from RA/ML Stacking.

    Purge Magic and Ward Removal have been doing essentially the same thing since they were intorduced (Removing the Spell all together, thus removing the buffs)

    I come from a PvP Persepctive..

    If anyone is using this example of "Oh no my suit is ruined!" for PvM.. I have Nothing to say to you, outside of just.. Lol

    For some reason, most of us have no trouble building simply uber suits without the reliance on those two spells, with the advent of imbuing. (As they are not reliable in PvP Anymore due to Purge).


    :yell:
     
  36. Macrophage

    Macrophage Journeyman
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    Typically those two characters are pvm characters, who never suffer purge magic. I don't get why you need to "lol" at me, when 90% of what people do on this game is pvm...
    I don't get how you have "no trouble building simply uber suits" with the advent of imbuing, since it takes litterally ours of farming just to have ONE piece out, and that is for a standard suit, not one that requires FC/FCR on a warrior or +40 skills.
    Or maybe you buy gold on dupe websites, then buy the ingredients.
     
  37. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    I'm actually fine with a simple resist penalty. It's the -10 reduction to the phys resist CAP I'm more concerned with.

    Maximum reflection pool you can have is 100%. When you are hit with a spell, each spell level reduces it by 10%. ie Level 1 spells reduces it by 10%, level 2 by 20%, level 6 by 60%. But level 7 spells pierces it directly instead of reducing it by 70%.


    That is to say, the reflection pool you get when you cast magic reflection at 120 magic resistance, 120 magery and 100 inscribe gets wiped by 1 single flamestrike. And if a spell brings down the reflection pool, it goes on to damage the player normally.

    I repeat, this is at 120 resist, 120 magery and 100 inscribe.

    The reflection pool you get is scaled by the your magic resists skill. With the 20 magic resist from JOAT and 120 margery/100 inscribe, you get a reflection pool of 27%.

    Without the magic resist skill, the reflection pool is so low that even fireball will pierce it and damage the target.

    The penalty of -10 to physical resists CAP is in no way proportional to the minor benefit that the reflection pool gives. If's it's just a penalty to current physical resists, I'm fine with it. But reducing the cap?



    With the advantages that warriors have over mages in PvP, and the number of warriors, would players who use a mage, cast magic reflect?

    And go around with 60 physical resists against the archers?

    The benefit is only marginal. At it's most powerful level, the reflection pool can only reflect a single level 5 or level 6 spell. The second level 5 spell pierces it. If your opponent starts with a flamestrike, the reflection pool does nothing.

    I was pretty hopeful with the initial change to magic reflect, but this change to reduce the physical resist cap penalizes mages more than it helps...
     
  38. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Because with the advent of imbuing.. There is ZERO reason for your suit to rely on those resists for PvM due to a PvM Suit being viable with Half of the required PvP Properties.

    With Imbuing taking almost nothing unless you Cap/Near the property, suits should be easily makeable.

    So having to farm for 10 (Give or Take, as i could easily finish a Suit in 5) hours for a Suit that will Last over two years seems insane, I dont understand that Logic.

    (Fyi I come from siege, where we lose our whole suit except 1 Item when we Die, I Always run , 70s, 25 HPI, 4+ MR, 70 DCI, 40 LMC, 100% LRC suits, Minimal and due to Random Ganks and human error, Ive had to make quite a few, with generally no problems.)

    Anyone complaining about having to remake their Insured Suit is just a laugh to me, as i've done it countless times on suits which easily cost 2-3 Mil on Siege. ( The usual going rate was 5-7, meaning my Average Suit costs 10 - 21 Million Prodo Gold each death. )
     
  39. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    FYI, siege doesnt have "Gold Dupe" Websites and not many people are actually interested in doing XShard Transfers for gold as people are Terrified of playing on Siege..
     
  40. Macrophage

    Macrophage Journeyman
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    Your lack of pvm knowledge is blatant. You need everything you need for pvp on a pvm character, if not more. On warrior, capped hci, dci, lmc 40 resists all capped, 25 hp etc... and that typical character is also using +20 skill and FC2/4. He has only 2 crafted parts, and unfortunately, it's not possible to imbue that high amount of elemental resists he needs, so he's using relic parts and magic reflect. And also, he needs repairs about every 2 hours, getting the durability cap down by one every time. If I were to play him every day for that amount of time, I d need a new suit about every 2 months if I were to use imbued parts. But anyway, my main concern is not exactly the fact that imbued parts cannot be PoFd, it is that I don't want to spend that insane amount of time reworking my suit, and probably having to use non medable unlikely woodland parts. If you like to spend energy on rebuilding suits; good for you, you have your play style, I have mine. But, we also are both customers.
     
  41. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    *My chars are faction chars, FYI* (Arties)

    2/4 Casting Warrior.. *Basics*

    Faction Orny
    Ring 15 HCI 15 DCI FCR 1 | Stat or EP (Whatever)

    Weapon..

    Mana Leach (Subject to Wraith Form)
    Health Leach (Subject to Vamp)
    Stam Leach
    DI

    Optional

    HCI 15 ( I actually prefer Hci on my weps )
    Slayer (Which can be replaced by perfect/chiv/DI)
    SSI (You should have 120 dex before pots anyway)

    Suit

    Faction RBC (15 LMC, MR 3, 10 Mana Inc)
    Faction Tali ( 10 HCI, 20 DI, 1 Str )
    Folded Steel Glasses ( 25 Dci, 8 Str)

    Universal

    Quiver ( 5 DCI )

    With a 15 Hci wep thats.. 45 DCI, 20 DI, 40 HCI, 25 LMC, 6 MR, 10 Mana Inc, 9 Str, 2/4 Cast, and good resists. (With a Few other possible properties)

    Leaving..

    Gorget, Sleeves, Arms, Legs to be imbued for whatever. (Shield Optional based on Bush/Parry)
     
  42. Macrophage

    Macrophage Journeyman
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    So as you see, even with faction items, and wasting a slot on your weapon for 15 HCI, you don t get 45...
    You can imagine the trouble it is, on a pvm character (thus non faction), to get to the magical numbers...
     
  43. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Lol come on..

    First of all you should be spamming lightning strike for 50 Hci on almost every swing.

    Secondly, 40 Hci vs 45 Hci 120 Weapon Skill vs 120 Weapon Skill 45 Dci is going to be about 47-48% Chance to hit (Closer to 48%),Opposed to 50%, Oh wow, That sure is game breaking.. (Lol) [And this is assuming that monsters have 45% DCI *AND* Are not subject to Hit Lower Defense)

    Third, Your not wasting a slot on your weapon with HCI, Your Freeing up a whole Slot in your gear by *not* having to run an HCI Arty.

    FYI Being a PvM Character has nothing to do with not Being in Factions in Todays UO, sorry that argument doesnt work here.
     
  44. Macrophage

    Macrophage Journeyman
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    Of course it is, only considering the fact that you need million faction points to be able to wear a faction item, and that those points are impossible to get on a pvm character. a typical pvm wep has usually 3 leeches, slayer and DI. Your suit, is not a high end suit, it s just an average suit, and still you reckon you lose 10-21 million of gold per death. My suit is a never breaking highend suit, that is simply ruined because of that change noone has called for.

    P.S.: LS is great but nothing in cumparison with whirlwind or AI which you usually want to spam and are subject to your HCI total.
     
  45. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Yeah it sure is Hard to have a Pvper say "I honor your leadership" a hundred times.

    Alt or GL i'm guessing, I played a little Atl, and would regularly get 200,000 Points per kill on Opposite Alignment Factions.

    Also, A Vampire Template will not have Life Leach.
    A Curse Weapon Template will not have Life Leach.
    A Wraith form template will not have Mana Leach.
    DI is subject to a 300% Cap (Meaning Chiv OoN / Perfection is 200% Right there, Add in 40% From your weapon, 20% From your Tali, and your 20% From Cap without Slayer on a Weapon)

    I honestly dont think you know what you are talking about anymore.
     
  46. Macrophage

    Macrophage Journeyman
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    You re wrong several time. The worse one, is that you confuse the damage modifier bonus, and the damage increase bonus (from items). I have to go now but I ll explain a bit more once I m back.
     
  47. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    I always loved that one..

    "You're wrong, but... uhh...I'll explain later"

    There are 2 Caps to the % of DI (FROM ITEMS, which is what i was talking about from the beginning)

    PvP Cap is 100%
    PvM Cap is 300%

    Universal Slayer (And OoN/Perfection) Add 100%
    Specific Slayer adds 150%

    I'm not really sure what you are going for..

    You keep bringing stuff up, which gets corrected, and then I'm wrong..

    Like a Vampire Template needing Life leach (So the Vampire Embrace spell which adds 100% Hit Life Leach to your Hits, needs Life leach weapons?)

    Or the Curse Weapon Spell which returns what 100% of the Damage done, as Health to the Player.. needs life leach, right?
     
  48. I don't know why its so difficult for you people to grasp the order of things happening here.

    1) Inscribe gives a bonus. People start using the bonus.
    2) Imbuing comes out. Doesn't affect the fact you get a bonus from Inscribe.
    3) Several months down the line they decide to change the functionality of Inscribe so that using it for the previous bonus is no longer viable.

    It is NOT:

    1) Imbuing comes out so we all remake out suits forgetting anything else that also helped just on the off chance they nerf it someday.

    Clear?
    Good.

    Considering all you even get from Scribe is 10 SDI and 5 Casting Focus, the perk of 0/5/5/5/5 to resists on certain thinly stretched suits was welcome.
     
  49. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    A trapbox can negate 120 Resist on Most templates and you're complaining because Inscribe No Longer gives Above SDI Cap, Casting Focus (Which is actually Amazing) *AND* Boosted Resists, for your 100 Skill Investment basically..


    -------------------

    I honestly dont understand why you wouldn't use imbuing unless you were just outstandingly lucky enough to get perfect pieces from runics. (Which is generally easy with imbuing..)

    They break... Okay? With PoF you can make them last alot longer than this "Two months" thing.. (Which is just Lol, I think i remember someone doing the math for an average player and the time was 2 years, like I said)

    When SA came out, what happened was the smart players switched to imbuing, because as I said, unless you are just crazy lucky, runics arn't going to compare.
     
  50. "A trapbox can negate 120 Resist on Most templates"
    Nothing to do with anything.

    "you're complaining because Inscribe No Longer gives Above SDI Cap"
    No. No ones complained about that.

    "Casting Focus (Which is actually Amazing) *AND* Boosted Resists, for your 100 Skill Investment basically.."
    No. That isn't the complaint either. The complaint, as I realise now I hid cunningly in the subject line, was that having a -10 Phys cap is a nerf that certain people who were already using the skill prior to the change probably don't want. Especially as you can't just turn it off anymore due to the cooldown.

    "I honestly dont understand why you wouldn't use imbuing"
    I am using Imbuing. Imbuing is not a reason to stop using Inscribe.

    "what happened was the smart players switched to imbuing"
    Imbuing doesn't stop Inscribe giving a bonus, there is no reason to stop using the Inscribe bonus in addition.

    Therefore...
    IF someone was using it for the previous bonus of 0/5/5/5/5 and had their suit set to incorporate it, SO that they could get extra mods on it, WHEN you remove that bonus you are losing room for other mods. At least 2 extra Imbuing slots.

    Additionally, as the goal of my particular suit was to get as much Casting Focus on there as possible at the time, that involved using certain artifacts, those artifacts left very little space to cap the other mods on the Imbued pieces.

    You can argue over the particulars of why people were using it in the first place all you like, whatever way you cut it, it is a nerf that wasn't asked for and that doesn't benefit the people that WERE (past tense) using it. To recap, it used to give a bonus, now it gives a penalty. Funnily enough I don't care about reflecting 2 Fireballs that weren't an issue when I'm getting hit that much harder by every dexxer. As its a cap not a drop the only option (if you're bothered about the penalty - which I clearly am) is to stop using it.