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[Discussion] Major Hit To Dupers and Duped Items

Discussion in 'UO Rares Collector' started by Tangled Metal, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
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    Mesanna paid a visit to Atlantic last night. She showed us a very cool Pirate Banner that she is having the art team create for us because of the revert. Anyhow, she mentioned that very soon, Duped items will not be able to be placed on Vendors. I am guessing it will be something like the way you cannot place insured items on vendors. This is pretty good news for many of us.

    Of course, until we are able to put unlimited gold in our banks and price items on vendors for over 175 mil it won't do a lot of good for very high end items. It will however help on stuff priced below 175 mil. Once this happens it will be easy enough to spot potential duped items when people refuse to use a vendor for a transaction.

    Mesanna also mentioned that the entire UO team is quite aware of the massive amount of duped items in the game and that they have some more fixes in the works. I just thought I would share with all of you.
     
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  2. Prawn

    Prawn Journeyman
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    I will believe it when I see it.
     
  3. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    I'd be curious if she is referring to all duped items, to items possibly duped during revert and/or only the doggy dupe items. I wonder if they are able to tell which are duped... why they don't simply remove them from the game.

    Thanks for the info Rowen. It is good that it is getting looked into!
     
  4. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    So they cant be put on vendors.....yay
     
  5. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
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    She said it was going to be impossible to sell ANY duped items on vendors. And removing all duped items from the game would have negative consequences on innocent people. That is what she said anyway.
     
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  6. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
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    The way she was talking, this will be happening very soon. It isn't yet live.
     
  7. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    If they think vendor banning duped items is actually going to effect anyone BESIDES innocent people who dont realize what they have lol


    Dupers will still sell their stuff, this isnt even a big deal to them.
     
  8. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Well that is me asking for a "cash" discount from now on :stir:
     
  9. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    This will just penalize the legit people from buying selling items they thought were legit. How many years of duped items are out there. Thats scary.........I did hear they are targeting various websites selling goods
     
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  10. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    And THATS who they have to hit, not people selling stuff on vendors.

    Any of the major dupers, the REAL problems, arent worried about selling stuff on vendors, let alone for gold.
     
  11. Nails Warstein

    Nails Warstein Rares Festival Silent Auctioneer
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    Not placing duped items on vendors was mentioned at the 15th Anniversary Party. not sure if it was mentioned on the video streamed presentation.
     
  12. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    If they can detect duped items quickly enough to block vendor placement, they may as well make us a dupe detector that works like the deco tool or something. Dble-click->target->dupe yes/no. But only from the trade window(or containers within) That would help stop trafficking duped item w/o damaging reputations of those who previously bought them unknowingly.
     
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  13. Angel Dust

    Angel Dust Slightly Crazed
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    Well, this will include a ton of items. wonder if 2 story statues will be safe?
     
  14. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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  15. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    The duped items you have are safe, she said they are not deleting them, it's just going to be harder to sell them. She went so far as to say every player most likely has a duped item on their accounts. I won't be buying anything from anyone that won't put it on a vendor. I don't pay with uber rare billion gold items, so I don't care about the gold limit in vendors.

    There was talk of moving from the check system, to one that keeps the gold tally on the account. Maybe then the vendor limit won't be a problem. Not sure if or when that might happen.
     
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  16. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    I seriously doubt they can know which item is duped and which one is not.
     
  17. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
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    Actually, Mesanna said it was really easy to tell which items were duped or not. She said that every item in UO has a unique id code (Which btw- does not reset by xsharding it) and that when an item is duped it shares the exact same unique item id code. She also said that if they deleted all the dupes it would affect innocent players. Believe it or not, some players have no idea that they own duped items. The only way to be sure you don't have any duped items is to farm your own items. Some items are quite easy to know if they are duped or not. If you own a 'real' Lieutenant Sash there is a 99.99999999% chance it is not one of the original ones. There are plenty more examples.
     
  18. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Wow, that's pretty cool if true. Say for example I broke up a 60k gold pile into separate coins, each one would have a different code? If so that's gotta be one hell of a database or whatever.
     
  19. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    If it did not, then how would it know what you were holding?
     
  20. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
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    From a coding standpoint it is pretty terrible to have every item have a unique id code. Seems to me it would take up way too much space, but that is what Mesanna said.
     
  21. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    The way I read the above statement was that every single item has its own code. So my tangle has a different code from another persons.

    Or one universal code for each item?
     
  22. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    Both

    Each type of item has a code and each individual item has a code well not seperate, basically for instance a bag will have ID: XDY-GHTC The first part is the id for bag the second part is the id for that bag so another bag would be XDY-HJUY.

    A tangle might be DFR-GHTR so if it was duped there would be 2 with that code



    Thunderz
     
    #22 Thunderz, Jan 6, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
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  23. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    So can they not detect stuff as soon as the item codes have been replicated? I'm no programming whizz, but couldn't they implement something so when the system detects 2 of the exact same code it turns the new "dupe" into something worthless?
     
  24. Hardy

    Hardy Lore Master
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    Interesting, how about this for an example.

    1. someone has a bag of 100m duped checks
    2. Pays into their bank
    3. Buys an item of a vendor with said checks

    Gold is now clean as its not in check form, its on a vendor (simple money laundering).

    I cant see it really.
     
  25. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
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    Yes, They could do that. However, Mesanna feels that many innocent people that spend 15 Mil on a Tangle or 30 Mil on a Crimmy should be able to keep their items without them turning into something else or going poof. I both agree and disagree with this. I think it would be interesting to find out how many items have actually been duped in the game. If they were all removed I am sure it would be devistating to a lot of people and not just the dishonest ones. Now, if they were to add a tag to all said items that might be cool. "This Item was created by nefarious Means" or "An Effigy of a Traitorous Cheater" or something of the like, that would be nice.

    Honestly I just wish they could stop dupes from ever happening again.
     
  26. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    I'm sure something in my collection has been duped since I do own a few items on the player made list such as rotgut and dragon bone earrings. That being said, I would really, really love to see them publish a LIST of items that have been duped along with this safety fix. I'd also Like to know if it is possible to still tell the originals from the dupes. I'm a bit of a purist in that even though I might lose an item or two if they were deleted, I think I'd be okay with it if the originals were still around.
     
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  27. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    From what i understand no they couldnt tell the difference as you wouldnt know which one with the same code was the original, there dupes so there an exact duplicate. The only way for a player to find out or check if they have a dupe is with that 3rd party program we cant name :D

    Thunderz
     
  28. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Once they implement the vendor change, I plan to go through every item and throw out each duplicate item. It would be pretty cool if they would give me turn in points for this, but realize that the same dupers would abuse that as well.

    Need to research how things get o the cavern of the discarded, as I do not want duplicates turning up here.

    Maybe there can be a day to turn in duplicate items for something special, watched by mesanna and crew to ensure the Dupers and scripters of dupes can't abuse it. Just a thought...
     
  29. Manticore

    Manticore Babbling Loonie
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    sounds good in all but this will also benefit the dupers as well who will be doing the exact same thing, i.e. dumping their items for points.
     
  30. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Why I'm saying mesanna and or other Dev can be there in person on each shard on each special day after we know for sure we have dupes. That way the duper would be discouraged from showing up with bagfuls of duped items. Each account gets a single chance to turn in duped items for something special, and the powers that be can make sure it all goes as planned. Not sure how to weight each item on the point scale tho. Value is dependent on the person, a rare item with no purpose means little to me compared o an item I use. The same would be reversed for a rares trader that likes such things.

    I'm just thinking out of the box for a fair and just way to remove these things from the game. Knowing full well that many will not turn them in, but some would like the chance to d just that.
     
  31. keel

    keel Sage
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    Turn in duped items for something special? Sounds like a reward for duping...
     
  32. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Or a reward for those who though they were buying a legitimate item, only to find out after the fix to vending that their item or items they purchased were duplicates. Mesanna expressed to us that simply deleting these items would hurt such a person, I'm just throwing out an idea on one way to remove them from the game. How about throwing out a constructive idea, rather than trolling.
     
  33. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    So would you turn in all your: tangles/crimsons/garbs/slithers/conj trinkets/mace and shield glasses + 1/2 your rares for a "special" item? I sure as hell wouldnt, my chars need those items more than a "special" item. thats why mesanna basically said the dupes are here to stay.

    Thunderz
     
  34. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    I would, and regardless will destroy any duped item I find. However, being I have been gone for years and only back say 5 or 6 months, my items are mostly clean finds of my own, or gifts from friends. I have purchased very few items, as I find the prices on Atlantic ridiculous, and pleasure in finding my own. Tangle however had been a *****, if I buy one, it will be after the proposed vendor changes.

    As I stated, I by no means expect others to do the same, not even close friends. Nor will I judge them for not doing so.
     
  35. keel

    keel Sage
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    By "trolling", you mean shooting down someone suggesting that you don't reward the dupers that you said abuse the game already? The damage is done, and even more duped items have saturated the market or found their way into players' collections. Despite the pissy remark, the only constructive idea to be offered is either take the moral high road of destroying any duped item you get your hands on (and I'll believe that when I see it), or move along, as the game has done in similar instances over all these years.
     
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  36. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    By trolling I mean coming in and making no rational contribution to the thread. Nor reading and comprehending what was said in the first place, but I digress.

    You may come and witness said destruction, I will pm you personally once the fix is in. Granted that is if my account contains any, which I doubt. Outside of the crimmy I am borrowing and the mace & shield I purchased, I know where everything else was pulled from. Oh and aside from idoc loot I have acquired since my return.

    Ill keep you in the loop.
     
  37. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    Damn, I strongly think she needs to ask to the developers how the items works. You can see the Item ID of each item with a 3rd party tool, yes, but you can see these items ID on the translog.txt on your 2D client each time you transfer to another shard. Also, when you transfer to another shard the items are deleted and they are re-created on the destination shard. As you can see for yourself, you will get a new item ID for each item that you transfer.
    Its really sad that mesanna doesnt know stuff like that. Every time a item is created, a new -unused- item ID is asigned, and its NOT random, its a sequencial number. Wanna test it for yourself? fine, easy.. just grab a stack of ingots and move 1 ingot out of the stack, then move another ingot out of the stack. There you go, you've created 2 new item IDs. Now you can xfer the 2 ingots to another shard and see the new IDs and check that its a sequence.
    There is no way that 2 items with the same ID can coexist on the same server, thats just basic programming knowledge.
    And, if she really believe that the items work as she said, then a dev should just write programming code to check the existence of a item ID before the item is being created. If the ID already exists, then its a duped item and the item creation could be canceled, or the player get a warning or whatever. But, in the real world, thats not how it works. Every new item that gets inserted into any shard gets a new ID, and that includes that duped items.

    Sad sad sad.
     
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  38. Ender76

    Ender76 Journeyman
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    This. The goal should be preventing duping, not just identifying duped items.
     
  39. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Yes, this. It's just the most logical answer to the whole issue.