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MAKE ALL ARMOR MEDABLE

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kage, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    Just make all armor Medable and balance the resist SIMPLE & LOGICAL ARMOR FIX!

    Accept for woodland only because it is able to gain Hit Chance Increase, Damage Increase, Hit Point Regen from enhance.
     
  2. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    I would prefer each armor type to be unique and have distinct advantages and disadvantages.

    Otherwise we still don't have a meaningful choice mechanics wise.
     
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  3. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    I would rather see similar bonus properties (like with wood) that can be added to either metal or leather. For example why don't they make it so if you enhance with a certain metal, you could get the extra resists and "mage armor" as a mod.

    Wood is great as you can get things like HPR2, HCI, DI etc from the enhance so its not using an imbue slot. Be awesome to see some extra mods like this for metal and leather. Maybe even some new ones added to wood.

    Like I said before in another thread, they could spice it up a bit. Let you enhance armor with dragon scales and stuff like that. Each different scale could carry a separate mod.
     
    #3 DJAd, Feb 5, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
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  4. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I think I need a clearer understanding of meditation.

    I believed that if you didn't have meditation in your template you didn't have passive meditation.
    Medable armor is only necessary if you have meditation?
    Focus is a passive skill that does not require medable armor?
     
  5. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    Weapon Revamp

    All weapons have now been normalized based on weapon speed and handedness.

    Mace:
    • Gargish Tessen & Tessen, Base damage 10-13 / Weapon Speed 2 seconds
    • Wild Staff, Base damage 10-13 / Weapon Speed 2.25 seconds
    • Quarter Staff, Base damage 11-14 / Weapon Speed 2.25 seconds
    • Glass Staff, Base damage 11-14 / Weapon Speed 2.25 seconds
    • Nunchaku, Base damage 12-15 / Weapon Speed 2.5 seconds
    • Tetsubo, Base damage 12-15 / Weapon Speed 2.5 seconds
    • Club, Base damage 10-14 / Weapon Speed 2.5 seconds
    • Disc Mace, Base damage 11-15 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • Mace, Base damage 11-15 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • Shepherd's Crook, Base damage 13-16 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • Wand, Base damage 11-15 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • Black Staff, Base damage 13-16 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • War Axe, Base damage 13-17 / Weapon Speed 3.25 seconds
    • Diamond Mace, Base damage 13-17 / Weapon Speed 3.25 seconds
    • Gargish Gnarled Staff & Gnarled Staff, Base damage 15-18 / Weapon Speed 3.25 seconds
    • Sledge Hammer, Base damage 13-17 / Weapon Speed 3.25 seconds
    • Smith's Hammer, Base damage 13-17 / Weapon Speed 3.25 seconds
    • Gargish Maul & Maul, Base damage 14-18 / Weapon Speed 3.5 seconds
    • Serpentstone Staff, Base damage 16-19 / Weapon Speed 3.5 seconds
    • Scepter, Base damage 14-18 / Weapon Speed 3.5 seconds
    • Hammer Pick, Base damage 15-19 / Weapon Speed 3.75 seconds
    • Gargish War Hammer & War Hammer, Base damage 17-20 / Weapon Speed 3.75 seconds
    • War Mace, Base damage 16-20 / Weapon Speed 4 seconds
    Fencing:
    • Gargish Kryss & Kryss, Base damage 10-12 / Weapon Speed 2 seconds
    • Bloodblade, Base damage 10-12 / Weapon Speed 2 seconds
    • Gargish Tekagi & Tekagi, Base damage 10-13 / Weapon Speed 2 seconds
    • Sai, Base damage 10-13 / Weapon Speed 2 seconds
    • Assassin Spike, Base damage 10-12 / Weapon Speed 2 seconds
    • Gargish Dagger & Dagger, Base damage 10-12 / Weapon Speed 2 seconds
    • Short Spear, Base damage 10-13 / Weapon Speed 2 seconds
    • Kama, Base damage 10-13 / Weapon Speed 2 seconds
    • Shortblade, Base damage 10-13 / Weapon Speed 2.25 seconds
    • Dual Pointed Spear, Base damage 11-14 / Weapon Speed 2.25 seconds
    • Double Bladed Staff, Base damage 11-14 / Weapon Speed 2.25 seconds
    • War Cleaver, Base damage 10-13 / Weapon Speed 2.25 seconds
    • Gargish War Fork & War Fork, Base damage 10-14 / Weapon Speed 2.5 seconds 2.5
    • Pitchfork, Base damage 12-15 / Weapon Speed 2.5 seconds
    • Elven Spellblade, Base damage 12-15 / Weapon Speed 2.5 seconds
    • Spear, Base damage 13-16 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • Leafblade, Base damage 11-15 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • Gargish Pike & Pike, Base damage 14-17 / Weapon Speed 3 seconds
    • Lajatang, Base damage 16-19 / Weapon Speed 3.5 seconds
    • Gargish Lance & Lance, Base damage 18-22 / Weapon Speed 4.25 seconds
    Axes:
    • Hatchet, Base damage 13-16 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • Gargish Axe & Axe, Base damage 14-17 / Weapon Speed 3 seconds
    • Dual Short Axes, Base damage 14-17 / Weapon Speed 3 seconds
    • Executioner's Axe, Base damage 15-18 / Weapon Speed 3.25 seconds
    • Double Axe, Base damage 15-18 / Weapon Speed 3.25 seconds
    • Battle Axe, Base damage 16-19 / Weapon Speed 3.5 seconds
    • Gargish Battle Axe, Base damage 16-19 / Weapon Speed 3.5 seconds
    • Two-Handed Axe, Base damage 16-19 / Weapon Speed 3.5 seconds
    • Ornate Axe, Base damage 17-20 / Weapon Speed 3.75 seconds
    • Large Battle Axe, Base damage 17-20 / Weapon Speed 3.75 seconds
    Swords:
    • Bokuto, Base damage 10-12 / Weapon Speed 2 seconds
    • Butcher Knife & Gargish Butcher Knife, Base damage 10-13 / Weapon Speed 2.25 seconds
    • Skinning Knife, Base damage 10-13 / Weapon Speed 2.25 seconds
    • Cleaver & Gargish Cleaver, Base damage 10-14 / Weapon Speed 2.5 seconds
    • Cutlass, Base damage 10-14 / Weapon Speed 2.5 seconds
    • Gargish Katana & Katana, Base damage 10-14 / Weapon Speed 2.5 seconds
    • Crescent Blade, Base damage 12-15 / Weapon Speed 2.5 seconds
    • Radiant Scimitar, Base damage 10-14 / Weapon Speed 2.5 seconds
    • Wakizashi, Base damage 10-14 / Weapon Speed 2.5 seconds
    • Glass Sword, Base damage 11-15 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • Elven Machete, Base damage 11-15 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • Daisho & Gargish Daisho, Base damage 13-16 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • Bladed Staff, Base damage 14-17 / Weapon Speed 3 seconds
    • Pickaxe, Base damage 12-16 / Weapon Speed 3 seconds
    • Scimitar, Base damage 12-16 / Weapon Speed 3 seconds
    • Rune Blade, Base damage 14-17 / Weapon Speed 3 seconds
    • Bone Harvester & Gargish Bone Harvester, Base damage 12-16 / Weapon Speed 3 seconds
    • Broadsword, Base damage 13-17 / Weapon Speed 3.25 seconds
    • Longsword, Base damage 14-18 / Weapon Speed 3.5 seconds
    • Gargish Scythe & Scythe, Base damage 16-19 / Weapon Speed 3.5 seconds
    • No-Dachi, Base damage 16-19 / Weapon Speed 3.5 seconds
    • Dread Sword, Base damage 14-18 / Weapon Speed 3.5 seconds
    • Gargish Talwar, Base damage 16-19 / Weapon Speed 3.5 seconds
    • Stone War Sword, Base damage 15-19 / Weapon Speed 3.75 seconds
    • Viking Sword, Base damage 15-19 / Weapon Speed 3.75 seconds
    • Bardiche & Gargish Bardiche, Base damage 17-20 / Weapon Speed 3.75 seconds
    • Halberd, Base damage 17-21 / Weapon Speed 4 seconds
    • Paladin Sword, Base damage 20-24 / Weapon Speed 5 seconds
    Bows:
    • Repeating Crossbow, Base damage 11-15 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • Magical Shortbow, Base damage 12-16 / Weapon Speed 3 seconds
    • Yumi, Base damage 13-17 / Weapon Speed 3.25 seconds
    • Elven Composite Longbow, Base damage 16-20 / Weapon Speed 4 seconds
    • Bow, Base damage 17-21 / Weapon Speed 4.25 seconds
    • Composite Bow, Base damage 18-22 / Weapon Speed 4.5 seconds
    • Crossbow, Base damage 18-22 / Weapon Speed 4.5 seconds
    • Heavy Crossbow, Base damage 20-24 / Weapon Speed 5 seconds
    Throwing:
    • Boomerang: Base damage 11-15 / Weapon Speed 2.75 seconds
    • Cyclone: Base damage 13-17 / Weapon Speed 3.25 seconds
    • Soul Glaive: Base damage 18-22 / Weapon Speed 4.5 seconds
    Weapon Special Move Changes

    • Disarm, now applies a 10 second disarm immunity timer when performed using weapons. Wrestling moves are not subject to the immunity timer.
    • Double Strike/Double Shot, now have a 15% hit chance increase on the second hit attempt.
    • Mortal Strike, now grants eight second effect reduction once removed by non consumable and talisman items. Attempts to reapply Mortal Strike while the player is under effect reduction will scale the duration base on the last successful Mortal Strike.
    • Bleed, now grants five second effect reduction once removed. Attempts to reapply Bleed while the player is under effect reduction will scale the duration base on the last successful Bleed.
    Combat changes:

    • The Gargoyle race hit chance increase cap has been reduced from 50 to 45. *Only needs 40% from items to be at 45%*
    • Ninjitsu: animal form can now be interrupted while casting.
    • Necromancy: Evil Omen will have no effect on the Magery spells Poison & Paralyze this will remove the guaranteed lethal poisons and being paralyzed while having 120 Resisting spells.
    • Mysticism: Remove the area effect of Hail Storm make it a single target spell.
    • Mysticism: Mass Sleep will will have a cool down timer of 60 seconds.
    • Two Handed Weapons can now be imbued with the balance property
    • Two Handed Weapons Imbuing cap raised to 600%
    • Two Handed Weapons can be imbued with 6 properties
     
    #5 Kage, Feb 5, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  6. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Or if using stealth. In non-med armor the hiding check just fails each time.
     
  7. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    1) Make it all medable.

    2) Balance resists.

    3) Make metal and leather give extra properties like wood.

    4) Make the metal properties warrior-oriented and the leather ones caster-oriented.

    5) Bam done, and nobody has to throw their suits away.

    Holy crap this isn't rocket science. Oh yeah, and make the material bonuses not count toward imbuing caps. Screw imbuing stuff and then breaking it. That's okay when it's just woodland armor, but not when everyone has to do it for every suit.
     
    #7 KLOMP, Feb 5, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
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  8. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    Yes this.
     
  9. RaistlinNowhere

    RaistlinNowhere Slightly Crazed
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    Absolutly NOT. If you make all armor medable, you will only be changing leather for metal, and EVERYBODY will wear metal. That isnt a solution.
     
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  10. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Give everything to the players they want in armor. Max to the teeth. Just make it the more mod points you put on an item the greater chance it breaks whenever it takes a durability hit. Anything crafted/imbued over 450 points also is insta cursed and brittle. Give them everything under the sun to have "No More Tears". Like any new toy they will break and need a new one. Bring back the power of the mace weapon having higher chance to break fragile overstuffed items. Same breaking bonus for some bosses/uber critters. Want to show up at the Bicycle race with a motorcycle as far as gear used in mobs? Know the Sandpeople will go after you first. Bring on the D&D classic Rust Monster and give it the acid spitting option for ranged attackers.
     
  11. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Everyone has passive meditation. Passive med is based on Med skill, Focus skill, Int and MR. The more you have the faster you regen mana. Even at zero skill (med/focus) 10 int you still get 0.225 MPS.
    Non med armor lowers passive med.
    Here is a mana regen calculator http://www.uoguide.com/Mana_Regeneration
     
    #11 Lord Frodo, Feb 5, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  12. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    My impression is that you always have some form of passive mana regeneration and that it's slightly better if you have non-meddable armor. Sometimes UO can be a game of inches, wherein every little bit can count for something.

    Depends on your point of view. See above. Also remember that every human character has the equivalent of 20 Meditation.

    Correct. However, because of what appears to be an inherent amount of mana regen, even with Focus meddable armor appears to confer some advantage.

    It's not as though nothing overcomes the advantages of meddable armor. If that were the case the Gladiator's Collar and Wood armor would not be in such high demand. It does, however, appear that it takes an awful lot to overcome that small mana advantage.

    -Galen's player
     
  13. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I would like to see more female armor pieces in scale, wood, stone and metal armor and special for ring og chain as the female plate take to much str to wear and with leather, female warriors will get trouble with stamina.
    I only think clothes and leather should be medable.
    I really would like to see warrior mods on colored metal, maybe some that can't be imbued and some mage/thief/stealth/ninja/bard mods on cloth and leather.

    I also believe it is important not to ruin it for archers and for hybrid templates with some magery and some warrior skills, they should be able to use "light archer suit", that be studded leather, ring or chain armor, maybe scala armor should be here too
     
  14. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    THis is what I, and most people I knew, expected when it was first announced.
     
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  15. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    I like this and put stamina damage back to what it was, based on damage taken and your health not based on what you are or are not wearing of if it has a mage armor tag on it.
     
  16. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    There are but two cracks in this idea. It's an idea many, including myself, have put forth in one form or another.

    1. Wood Armor, which can get really awesome mods even without Imbuing or Reforging. (I can imagine in PvP a massive group of Wood Armor wearing PK mages, fighting at the Yew Moongate.)

    2. I think that philosophically the team has decided they want to keep the advantage/disadvantage system. Most of us, however, appear to think that the team went considerably too far in the Publish as presently designed, and think that fundamental changes and/or re-conceptualization of the Publish 81 changes are needed.

    -Galen's player
     
  17. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    1
    I disagree here but maybe scale it from 100% medable for clothes/leather to 0% for plate/stone, then let studded/ring/chain/scala be 50%, and wood/bone be 25% medable

    Here I believe the the cap on a suit should be scaled too 5x70 for clothes/leather, 5x73 for studded/ring/chain/scala, 5x77 for wood/bone and 5x80 for plate/stone

    Don't forget scala

    Agree, also make it so some caster/thief/stealth/bard mods can't be added / imbured to stone and plate armor and some warrior mods can't be added / imbued to clothes/leather armor

    Let the crafters have some busines, maybe you can sell it. I more fear, they will add some new mods and imbuing resources, that is to hard/expensive to get. I also hope they will be careful, how it effect Siege as we replace our suits very often and we just got more players, I would hate to see the shard die again.
    Have to get a new suit may sounds bad, but it is worse, if players have to make mega change to their template, special on Siege where we only have one char.

    I to would like to see the mods not count towards the imbuing bonus, but if you want 140 luck or 4 HPR, you still have to exchange it after, with risk for breaking it.
    If you just want the 2 HPR and make the armor with bloodwood, you should still be able to add 5 mod at a weight of 500 so you get 6 mods in all
     
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  18. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    Cool! Let's dumb down the game:

    Make all weapons do the same damage, same swing speed and have the same specials.

    And while you're at it, you can remove all spells from the game, because you just need 5: A damage spell, a healing spell, a rez spell, a buff spell and a debuff spell.

    Cosmetics FTW!
     
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  19. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    Well whatever happens,its safe to say it will be way over and beyond what was actually needed. In the end we will be left wondering how we got what we got when all we wanted was a simple equalization between armor types. Instead we`ll have new mana phase and stam loss and who knows what other kind of other nonsense by the time its pushed onto the payerbase. Guaranteed it will be over thought,over done and over the top.
    Simplicity....what is that.

    Its like 2+2= 987394058127656732.
     
  20. Gameboy

    Gameboy Sage
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    I know so little about how everything works I wounder if I will even notice. I have mage/tamer and my pet does most of the killing. I have a pally and normally buy armor right off a npc and fight. Sometimes I will have my blacksmith do it. The only thing I cared about with my mage was the 100% lrc. Maybe I'm dumb or just too simple.
     
  21. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    use the med calculator on stratics, and look at the numbers with identical setups. Wearing medable gear, even with no med, has a benefit. Especially if you are human with joat 20 med.
     
  22. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Based upon what those who've tested the changes you will notice them.

    You are, I submit, neither stupid nor simple: Your characters are just regular guys who do their jobs and go home -- their jobs, however, just happen to involve killing monsters. (Can't realy solely on the NPCs to keep ettins, mongbats, and gargoyles out of the cities.) UO supports that kind of gameplay and that's to UO's credit.

    -Galen's player
     
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  23. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    All armors should definitely not be medable. How is someone in full platemail able to cast just as fast as someone wearing cloth?

    I thought the game mechanics allowed for this by making heavier armors slower mana regain and thus able to cast fewer spells than someone wearing lighter armor like cloth?

    If you insist on making all armors medable than I think maybe there should be different fcr and fc caps for each armor type.

    ie if you wear platemail you cast very slow vs someone wearing cloth.
     
  24. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Perhaps you are mis-speaking. Under current rules, meddability and casting times are separate issues. Meddability relates to the ability of the meditation skill and natural passive mana regeneration to in essence cut through armor.

    The proposal to make all armor meddable grows out of an effort to find a way to put all armor on a more-even footing. It has been hypothesized that
    the primary reason metal armor is under-used comes down to the inferior rates of mana regeneration that it offers.

    There are those who dispute that hypothesis to be sure, some say that the issue actually is that metal armors offer elss total resistances, but those people never seem to come forward and make that argument loud enough (and I don't know enough about crafting to be able to come to an independent conclusion), and thus meddability is what we're left with.

    There's 2 basic choices.

    Choice One: Leave some armor meddable, some not, and find something nice to give to the non-meddable armor. (In attempting this option the team has come up with a solution that I, and many others, find much too far reaching, creating new problems in the quest to solve a problem. But proposals have been offered that follow this option that will not create the issues that the current draft of Publish 81 creates.)

    Choice Two: The one in this thread, which is to make all armor meddable and walk away.

    Both choices have their issues, to be sure. Neither is self-evident.

    -Galen's player
     
  25. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    Well just thought of something and maybe somebody can pipe it up to the Devs. How about reworking the Reactive Armor Spell to give Stamina Protection at X% or XX%.
     
  26. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    /Signed
     
  27. Padre Dante

    Padre Dante Journeyman
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    I agree that the re-vamp of armor appears to come from the fact that only leather, leaf, and cloth armors are medable, by default. All other types require the 'Mage Armor' property, which in the days of imbuing/reforging, require a heavy hit on including the property. Wood armor gets a special shout out here, as enhancing with a certain wood type can take items over the imbuing cap, and add mods to armor that are otherwise not attainable from runics/imbuing.

    I'm not sure, however, there is/was ever reasoning in regards to base resists. Excluding the gargoyle armor, the only armor that offers higher base resists are studded leather and bone (check out this page). Studded is 16, otherwise everything else is 15. So in one theory, we should see tons of warriors running around in studded - except it comes back to that meditation penalty...

    Therefore, it's been my understanding that the point of the re-vamp is to make non-medable (non-cloth/leaf/leather) armor as desirable as medable armor. Some options include (1) making all armor medable (in which case, maybe studded leather (or bone) would rule, what with it's 1 additional base resist...); (2) adding other inherent bonuses to non-medable armor (such as the stamina loss stuff in the proposed pub); (3) letting non-medable armor types have higher resists, and/or higher base resists, and/or higher imbuing caps, etc.; (4) etc.

    Lastly, (to Lady CaT...) slowing down casting in platemail is fine, if combined with other ideas, but as a stand alone you have not only not accomplished the purpose of this Publish, you have made the reasons for it even more quantitative...
     
    #27 Padre Dante, Feb 5, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
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  28. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    Iam also for it all mediable is a good way! Iron should give more defense and combat advantages and leather cloth should have advantages for mages. But mediable or not is outdated and should be turned off.
     
  29. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    Yeah if you wanna differentiate templates by armor, the med penalty isn't the way to do it. It's an anachronism, a relic of a bygone age.
     
  30. Gameboy

    Gameboy Sage
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    Probably off topic but was wondering in D&D can you meditate in different armor types, was just wondering.
     
  31. Maximus of Lck

    Maximus of Lck Adventurer
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    I absolutely disagree with this.

    Each type of armor should have advantages and disadvantages, just as one would expect from various materials.
     
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