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Make Forged Metal Tools a High End BOD Reward

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Llewen, May 17, 2011.

  1. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I don't know about anyone else, but I hate the way forged metal tools have been introduced the game. The tool itself is an amazing idea, but having the only way you can get them be from UO Game Codes is bad for the game. It's one more step down the road toward making UO a "pay to win" game.

    The simple solution is to make them a random high end BOD reward, for both tailor and blacksmith BOD's.
     
  2. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Agreed.... Or add it to the community collections let me turn in all the crummy bod rewards that I feel are useless and gather points to earning me a new forged metal tool.

    I mean really how many 120 blacksmith or tailor scrolls does a body need?

    How about also adding a 100 use Powder of Fort bottle?

    Or don't you wish powder of fort and bottles of dyes worked like Baits..... double click and combine.... I'm sick of having 400 lockdowns taken up by single bottles of one use dyes.
     
  3. TheMac

    TheMac Guest

    I agree completely!!!!!:)
     
  4. T-Hunt

    T-Hunt Sage
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    Count me in.
    Tired of crappy tailor BOD,s i dont do anymore because rewards bite.
     
  5. nynyve

    nynyve Guest

    I agree. Perhaps even a small foundry? This could lead to new craftables for smiths and tinkers. Alloy recipes would be great too.

    How about a tapestry loom as a high end tailor reward? It should come with cartoons (a fancy technical term for tapestry designs) as BOD rewards to make new tapestry designs available. The cartoons could be collectible and tradeable.


    You wouldn't even need to introduce a new material to make the tapestries--most are made of wool, so just basic cloth, a dye tub, cartoon and loom would be needed to make tapestries.
     
  6. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Clearly this thread has not taken the relation of revenue to Cal and team's year end bonus. I suspect that all these nice pay to play add on's will get the kiddo's some wonderful new christmas presents....
     
  7. nynyve

    nynyve Guest

    That seems a bit cynical.
    Besides--UO has been doing pay to play stuff for years--just look at UO game Codes. As little as I like to new booster packs, I will say in their defense that they are unnecessary for play.

    Even if they had been incorporated into the Spring Cleaning rewards, I wouldn't have used them. I think that some of the items were poorly conceived.

    Also I would like to point out that if these boosters do not succeed, they won't bring in any bonuses. In fact they will hurt the game. Corporate perception may well be that EA is throwing good money after bad.

    There are other ways of revitalizing UO. Some pay to play may help, but a reward currency tied to specific accounts that will let players purchase great things, better graphics, better customer service, and a better game experience would all improve UO and hopefully increase the player base.

    I admit that I've been critical, but the bottom line is that the dev team is understaffed and overworked. Better graphics people would also help.

    Someone needs to convince EA that UO can effectively compete with World of Warcraft and Free to Play games. Uo needs a bigger investment of resources. In the long run I think UO has the potential to compete. Which is why all my 80th level characters in WOW are in mothballs.
     
  8. TMC Crowley

    TMC Crowley Seasoned Veteran
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    I like that idea sounds good to me .....
     
  9. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Why would they do that when they can get 10 bucks each for them in the UO store?
     
  10. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    *does math in head*
    9.99 for ten charges, at 2 mil per real dollar, hmmmm maybe they could offer a tradesman collection reward for a single charge tool at 250k in points?

    *shrugs* Its an option I suppose if they really do want to bleed gold from the system.
     
  11. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    They could make turn in like brit boat. Reasonable RL money price and huge goldsink/old rewards turnin.
    100000 points for 1 use of forged metal.
    +1 mining gloves 10 points
    +3 mining gloves 50 points
    +5 mining gloves 100 points
    105 smith ps 50 points
    110 smith ps 200 points
    115 smith ps 500 points
    120 smith ps 1000 points
    each use of +10 ASH 1 points per (fresh 600 uses is 600 points)
    each use of +15 ASH 2 points per
    each use of +30 ASH 5 points per
    each use of +60 ASH 10 points per
    and so on like bear rugs, tapestries and other tailor rewards uncluded
     
  12. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    your point system is skewed but yes something like that.
     
  13. Willard

    Willard Seasoned Veteran
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    Would love to see this. Maybe it would make BODs worth doing again.
     
  14. Espilce

    Espilce Guest

    Yes!!!

    Please Please Please :bowdown:
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    So to offer on a silver platter an item to scripters that they can sell for real money ?

    BODs are one of the easiest things to script in the game and have been abused by scripting for years now.

    No thank you. I'd rather have Ultima Online get these revenues to be reinvested in the game.

    So no, thanks but not.
     
  16. That's a great idea, we shouldn't have to pay above monthly fee to get such items.
     
  17. Espilce

    Espilce Guest

    Forged metal tools are a game changer that give an unfair advantage to people willing to pay for them. With this one item UO has just become a "pay to win" game.

    Any items like these need to be available to everyone.
    Via library collections, tiered quests such as the Thepem and Zosilem ingot conversion quests, or make these items craft-able.

    Give the players a reason to play the game, instead of alienating the player base.

    Popps, you're right about a BOD reward turn in system, being a giveaway to the BOD scripters.

    Its really too bad for the legitimate smiths and tailors out there. A BOD reward exchange system would put a nice band-aid on the broken rewards.

    I recommend a compromise: let these high end rewards be obtainable only through a multi-tiered quest that includes BOD rewards in addition to non-scripting items.
     
  18. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    eh, i think the tool is fine how it is. Its a real shame to those (myself included) who sunk alot of gold into making those top end wood pieces. You could really make this argument about anything from the UO store. Sure id love to have every single thing in the UO store be available from quests and whatnot, but it is what it is.

    Comparatively, this particular item is kinda interesting, because i can buy 10 charges in game for 16 mil... If you convert gold to rlm its much "cheaper" to just spend gold on them. (makes me suspicious that its being duped?)

    If anything, id like to see ea NOT put things in game that will end up in the store rather than vice-versa. I feel sorry for all those who thought their thatched roof cottage was special, or the (insane) people who donated enough crap to get the Brit ship only to sea it pop up in the store.
     
  19. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Also interesting.

    Just out of curiosity, what if the 100 percent items were pay for only? How hard would anyone work to get a 50 percent bonus to their ability to enhance? Not a guarantee but a big boost. What if something like that came from a quest and was repeatable?
     
  20. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    The forged tools aren't an unfair advantage, they just save time and/or money. They don't give you anything you can't get normally.
     
  21. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Ya the points system is a little off but I really like this idea. It would make getting powders less cumbersome.

    Though you could mix this with the RNG in a positive way for some rewards. I'm thinking of a dual system pitting consumables against single use items. Make consumables purchasable through a points system like all hammers, prospector tools, powders and garg picks. The one time use things like mining gloves, scrolls, anvils and forges could still be given as a random reward (occasionally not every time) as a bonus for your patronage. So you still work hard to get that +20 scroll. But once you have it, you'll have a nice bank of points built up to spend.

    This works well for other players too. If the+20 scroll were purchasable, would't you most likely just bank points and buy it, skipping the +5/10/15? Keeping one use items on RNG keeps them in circulation to sell to others or have handy for a friend who may be in need.
     
  22. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Unfortunately, scripting seems to be capable of handling also quite complex tasks.

    Making the dynamics to obtain something more complicated and tiered would only make the script more difficult to be made but once someone makes it, it is only a matter of copying it and pasting it buddy from buddy......

    Scripting is a curse for a multiplayer game, IMHO, because it makes balancing the game out and making the best design choices a nightmare.
    A design choice which in theory would be a great addition becomes a huge problem to the game because it is scriptable and then abused with scripts.

    That's why I think that getting rid of cheating in Ultima Online should be the # 1 Priority to address. Only when scripting, hacking and all of the cheating which makes balancing the game out (also for a better and more interesting and challenging PvP) and adding new Design difficult and sometimes a nightmare.

    But as things are now, with the game so plagued of cheating as it is and with hardly anything happening to those who may cheat, well, making the tool available through game play rather than paying money that helps the game's resources, I do not think would be a good idea at all, just a gift to scripters and a loss of revenues for the game.

    No thanks.
     
  23. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    *shrug*
    I wouldn't mind if they changed up the top rewards on the bod systems now and then, or at least added new possibilities every six to nine months.

    If it's the top two tiers on smithing and the top most on tailoring they'd be rare enough that it wouldn't detract people from buying them if needed, but those that worked at it could get them.

    However, they need to flesh out the bod system more and add all of the crafting and resource gathering types. I especially would like multi-discipline bods that require real work and give excellent rewards for the effort, instead of the 'click twenty times' lotto tickets we have now.

    I don't mind buying expansions and "boosters", but I honestly don't see the point in paying cash and picking up specific deco things or limited use items. If I was that sort of person I could have had most anything in the game by now by hitting up a few brokers. I find it far more interesting to play the game and work for things I want.

    But I'm also very very patient.
     
  24. calibek

    calibek Journeyman
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    Forged Metal Tools do nothing special that you can't already do. All they do is give a 100% chance of enhancing. You can already enhance items in game...It's just a high chance of failure. Forged metal tools takes that chance away. So it's really not doing anything someone else can't already do. And the item is available to everyone. Just got to buy it with RL money. Personally I don't see the problem. Paying RL money for fluff items is the new thing. All companies are doing it. Can't fault EA for jumping on the bandwagon. Those who have a problem with games going this route need to stop playing MMO's then if it is that big of a deal.
     
  25. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    You seem to be forgetting that when you fail you have a large chance of destroying the item.
     
  26. calibek

    calibek Journeyman
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    No I'm not forgetting it. Forged metal tools are an item for enhancing. Enhancing items is in game. Therefore it's not an item you have to pay RL money for in order to do something in the game you can't do already. Just like the gravestone and the woodworking bench. They provide a bonus but don't restrict you from doing something.
     
  27. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Um, well, yes, but they do a dern site more than sit on your porch and look pretty too.
     
  28. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    When I made my first high end imbued pieces I had to make hundreds of base pieces to get just the right resists for each item, and then each single piece required millions of gold pieces worth of ingredients, many of which I spent hours farming myself. I then proceeded to destroy a full 12 of those pieces that took so much effort and gold to create, before I finally had all three of the pieces finished. It took me months, and almost every gold piece I had in two accounts combined to create those three pieces.

    When you've had an experience like that you realize that the forged metal tool is the single most powerful crafting tool in the game. One that every player in the game is going to want to use, directly or indirectly. And the only way to get it is for someone to fork out a dollar a charge at UO Game Codes. It's "pay to win", it's bad for the game, and it stinks.
     
  29. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    While I agree with you in general, the fact that scripting is still running rampant, I would have to disagree with letting the Forged Metal Tool be available through a turn in.
     
  30. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    I dunno, they are looking for sinks for resources, and if we wait for the ime to be right, ie. perfect, it'll never happen.

    What would be the worst of all would be to make them part of a spring cleaning turn in, making them available only in a limited way, like the black rock turn ins. The casual player would definitely be the loser in that scenario.
     
  31. Espilce

    Espilce Guest

    Amen.
     
  32. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    You're welcome.
     
  33. calibek

    calibek Journeyman
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    Not really pay to win. The end result of you doing the imbuing without forged metal tools and someone with forged metal tools is the exact same, the outcome does not change. The suit was created. The only difference the particular roads taken to do it. You did it without the tools and spent millions upon millions of gold. But regardless the outcome will be the same. My point here is people are saying these are unfair because you HAVE to pay to get it...Here's the catch though, you don't NEED them. They are something that people can pay RL money for to reduce the headache of enhancing but you don't NEED to have them to enhance the items you create. You can do it on your own, of course with more chance of failure.

    I, personally, will not pay money for these tools nor do I have any interest to use them. I'm not a min/max person who has to have the PERFECT suit. What I imbue I can get away with just fine. So basically I find these things utterly useless.

    This kind of stuff is happening in all games, online and offline. It's business and it's here to stay. UO isn't the first to do it and won't be the last. So no, I don't think they should be high end BoD rewards.
     
  34. calibek

    calibek Journeyman
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    True...but again it's not something needed. I like to think of it as flying on a plane. You can spend money on coach or you can spend some more money for first class. It's convenience for an extra charge. You don't NEED to fly first class as regardless you still pay money to get the end product...flying to your destination. The upcharge is for convenience. This is how modern business in video games is done anymore. Can't blame EA for jumping on the bandwagon. And honestly as long as it keeps UO open I say whatever.
     
  35. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    i like the addition of items for cash in the game.

    if you ask me this will be a seguey into ftp at some point.

    if you want a bod reward for a forge tool make it a 1 shot tool.

    otherwise you will create another val hammer market, unless proper precautions are taken (which we know they wont be)
     
  36. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    B.S.

    You keep ignoring the fact that without the tool you have a very high chance of destroying the item. If the item is destroyed how is that the same?
     
  37. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    Let's assume I use a forged tool and you do not, trying to make items with identical properties. I make my item, use a charge of the tool, enhance, and then go on my way satisfied. You make one or more items and attempt to enhance. If your enhance works, your item is identical to mine. If your enhance does not, there is a chance materials were lost or the item broke. These are governed by the RNG.

    Arguing that players CANNOT create the same item without the forged tool as other players who do use the forged tool leads me to wonder if you'll next argue that because the random number generator may give player A a successful enhance on the first try but player B failed and broke on his first enhance the RNG is unfair and does not allow players to create the same item.
     
  38. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    Now you are just trying to put words in my mouth.

    Having a chance to fail is not the same as not having a chance to fail.

    Non zero is not equal to zero.

    You and calibek are ignoring this basic fact, either purposefully because you are trolls, or maybe because you are just blatantly stupid and need to live in a padded room so you don't hurt yourself.
     
  39. calibek

    calibek Journeyman
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    First off, personal attacks are NOT needed.

    Secondly I am not ignoring the basic facts. The basic facts are the post brought up the point that EVERYONE should have these because this makes things "pay to win". Guess what, you can get to the EXACT same point as anyone else who buys the tools. Only difference is someone MAY, not NEED, but MAY pay RL cash to get a 100% chance of enhancing. You don't NEED to buy the tools because you can enhance without them so no they aren't something someone NEEDS to have. They are a luxary, which means you pay extra. If these tools were NEEDED to enhance then I can see the point, but you can still enhance without them. You just have a VERY HIGH chance of breaking the item.

    Like I've said before, this is the route most companies are going. If you don't like this route then better get out of gaming now cause I can almost guarentee this isn't going to change anytime soon.
     
  40. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I hate the idea of BOD rewards, because they are boring and I don't like it. But I think making a way to craft it in game with rare items or something is a really good idea. Kind of like the 1 use craftable soulstones.

    Personally, I've got plenty of gold so when I need to make a specialized suit that utilizes one of these I have no problem investing 20 mil in an item that is going to give me a return on my investment in after 2 weeks of playing.
     
  41. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    It was my favorite activity to do in game. You have to like collecting and shooting for a reward to enjoy bods on it's own. Years and years and almost all my playing time aside from vendoring, mining,leather gathering,chopping and occasional mood for monster hunt was collecting and filling bods. It was my favorite past time till there was nothing to shoot for anymore. I still log in to do a little bod filling i sure missed it and the excitement of filling my collection for the top end rewards.
     
  42. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    They seem to think that 1% lrc is the same as 100% lrc - the outcome is the same
     
  43. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    I was indifferent about this issue when the forged metal tools were released, but now I agree with others that the tool should be available through in-game means. I've been reading on the craftsman forum that there are some items out there that have a zero success rate for enhancing. Either that needs to change or the forged metal tool should be available in game.
     
  44. Carharrt

    Carharrt Guest

    Yup! This right here.

    I agree with popps! :eek:
     
  45. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    With reforging, players can make items with intensities high enough that it will fail 100% upon enhancement (e.g. 190 luck leather armor). While forged metal tool affects only very limited number of players before this publish, it now has very broad implications. It is like a one hit kill weapon for every boss monster/player in game. Sure, ppl can kill every boss/player in game, but how do you like EA selling a glass dager that does one hit kill? Worse, how do you like EA introduce a leet monster boss and ONLY the glass dagger bought for cash can kill it?

    Beef up Ancient Smith Hammers so metal armors/weapons has a decent chance to get enhanced will go a long way to give a reason making the metal armors. Give the forged metal tool as vet rewards like the house teleport tiles will not only make the system fair but also help to retain vet players, which will add to EA's bottom line just like selling it for cash.
     
  46. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    Well that's not entirely true. You have 0% chance to enhance a 150 luck piece to 190. With the tool it's 100%. I'd say that is a distinct advantage. Especially where the Dev team seem to be heading towards luck playing a larger role in loot generation.
     
  47. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Someone is saying BODs aren't worth doing? Tell that to the **** wagon selling POF for 250k / pop and buying out the other vendors cheaper than that.
     
  48. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    where are you getting the idea that enhancing is based on intensities? Enhancing has always been a rng thing right?
     
  49. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Nope.
     
  50. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    The higher number of mods and the higher intensities of the mods on a piece of item, the harder it is to get enhanced.