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Mana Regen/LMC Question

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Connor_Graham, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. I need the help of those that are much better at UO math and the formulas than I am. I'm trying to plan an imbued suit for my tamer and the question has come up about what would be better, 12 Mana Regen with 20 LMC or 7 Mana Regen with 40 LMC. Noxin's site has been down for some time or I'd use the calculator that he put together. The only spell that's normally cast is Greater Heal, as this character is PvM only (big surprise huh?) so I basically just need to be able to keep up with the mana expenditure from that. Would one of you mind please figuring this out for me so I can get on to putting this suit together? I'd greatly appreciate it.
     
  2. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Haven't found any mana calculators after the devs posted the mana regen formula recently, but see if this helps.

    This is a crude version using MS Excel. If you have Excel, copy this this to column A:

    Code:
    Focus
    Med
    Int
    Actively meditating?
    MR from gear
    Med-able Armour?
    
    1 - MR (Base)
    2 - MR (Focus)
    3A - MR (Meditation)
    3B - MR (If meditation is GM)
    3C - MR (If actively meditating)
    4A - MR (Item base)
    4B - MR (Item base modified)
    4C - MR (Item intensity)
    4D - MR (Item final)
    
    5 - MR (Total)
    
    And copy this to column B:
    Code:
    120
    120
    150
    1
    31
    1
    
    0.2
    =B1/200
    =0.0075*B2+0.0025*B3
    =IF(B2>99,B10*1.1,B10)
    =IF(B4=1,B11*2,B11)
    =(B2/2+B1/4)/90
    =B13*0.65+2.35
    =IF(SQRT(B5)>5.5,5.5,SQRT(B5))
    =IF(B5<1,0,(B14*B15-(B14-1))/10)
    
    =IF(B6=1,B8+B9+B12+B16,B8+B9+B16)
    
    Not tested in other spreadsheet programs or even google spreadsheet. But it should work. Only issue might be with the SQRT function. If so, use this instead - B5^0.5

    First 5 rows in column B is where you plug in your values. I am using max possible values as an example.



    As to your question, at a glance, due to diminishing returns (it uses a square root function, causing the benefits of high levels of MR to diminish fast), 7 Mana Regen with 40 LMC should allow you to cast more gheals without stopping to med, compared to 12 Mana Regen with 20 LMC.
     
  3. I've got excel, but it's been 5 yrs since I used the program. I can't remember enough to know how to plug in all of that lol. It's just so much chicken scratch to my eyes.
     
  4. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    From that spreadsheet i worked out i couldnt understand the ask the devs post!!!

    Thanks for that post btw...useful as pie!!!

    Anyways...that seems to be obvious now...go with the 40lmc!

    Gaining 0.2mana per second is nothing compared to the mana you will lose per second casting!

    With the values of mr you gave (i assumed 110 med i might be of but wth!) you gain 2.2 with 12mr and 2.0 with 7
     
  5. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Don't worry, a simple copy and paste should suffice (erm, barring any special regional settings like using commas as decimal points).

    Copy the first chunk of text, toggle to excel, highlight cell A1, then paste.

    Next, copy the 2nd chunk, this time highlight cell B1, then paste.
     
  6. I'm working with 50 Med. There's no room on the template for more than that.
     
  7. A few questions.

    You said to paste the 2nd part in B2. Did you mean B1?

    What does the "Actively Meditating - 150" mean and where's the value of 150 coming from?

    What's the deal with "Medable Armor - 31"?

    What's up with the 1 in a cell by itself in column B right above the 2nd part of your stuff above?
     
  8. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    I haven't really worked the numbers, but I'm pretty sure 7 mr and 40 lmc would be better than 12 and 20 due to the diminishing returns for MR.
     
  9. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Whoops, yes, I meant B1, sorry. I'll update that post.

    The values are supposed to tally as thus
    Focus 120 (max focus)
    Med 120 (max med)
    Int 150 (max int)
    Actively meditating? 1 (1 means yes, any other value means no)
    MR from gear 31 (MR from gear caps at 5.5, which can only be reached by having a total of 31 MR on equipment)
    Med-able Armour? 1 (1 means yes, any other value means no)
     
  10. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Without calculators, purely based on my experience I'd go for 40 LMC.
     
  11. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    yep
     
  12. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    Hehe you dont trust me do you :twak:
     
  13. How am I supposed to figure out what the value is for 7 MR and 12 MR? Where does the LMC come in?
     
  14. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    I would go with 7 regen and 40 lmc ! because of the diminishing returns 12 is not very much more regen than 7! its like .3 or .4 difference for passive regen!
     
  15. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    You already know that LMC does though, why need it in a table? You know 40 is much better than 20, so all you would need to know is the absolute Mana regain values to make your choose, as others and I have already said though, you'd Probably be better with the 7 and 40.
     
  16. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Conner, look at it this way. Without going into full blown spreadsheet mode;

    Say you have 100 mana, GH costs 11 mana to cast. With 20% LMC it cost 9 mana. You'll probably be able to, with 6/2 casting, get off around 14 or 15 GHs. With 40% LMC though, GH costs only 7 mana. You'd probably be able to cast GH 20-25 times, with some regen, before running out of mana.
     
  17. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Go for the 40 LMC (and, no, you can't go 39, it'll usually round down)

    That 5 MR, with a very generous estimate would regen... .25 mana per second.
    ... that's 1 mana every 4 seconds.

    Energy bolt takes 20 mana, 40 LMC would reduce it to 12 mana.
    So the difference between 20 LMC and 40 LMC would be 4 mana points per Ebolt.

    So... if you cast 1 ebolt every 16 seconds then it'd be even
    (except it wouldnt cause .25 mana per second was very generous)

    ... if you still don't get it, just go with the LMC.
     
  18. Paps

    Paps Journeyman
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    no brainer,,,40LMC
    however if your imbuing you may be able to fit more mr in depending on what `goals` you have with the suit [meaning you may or may not want HCI,ect]
    can you run the orny or are you using + taming skills on the jewelry,have ye a spellbook with mr you can use,does you budget allow for the mr2 sash,mr2 robe,ect,ect,ect
    Course,,,i have seen alot of PVM tamer-mages run high luck suits
    but if its purely one suit or the other [that you have both allready made] go with the 40-lmc
    And then get me a beer.:pint:
     
  19. Well, I'd kind of like to understand it myself. That's why I'm asking so many questions and not just saying "ok, I'll do such and such cuz they said so".
     
  20. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    The total MR from items is in row 16 - the one that says "4D - MR (Item final)".

    The sequence I did the formulas in is the exact sequence that the devs posted (including substages like 4A, 4B, 4C, 4D). Take a look at the post in the "ask dev" forum to see what is calculated in each stage.

    The formula is only for mana regen. LMC has to be factored in separately.



    1. Assuming you are an elf without JOAT, 125 int, 50 med, and gear with MR 7, you will passively regen 1.404 mana per second. Over 20 secs, you will regen 28 mana.

      If the gear has MR 12, you will passively regen 1.611 mana per second. Over 20 secs, you will regen 32 mana.


    2. Let's say you cast a gheal every 2 secs for 20 secs (that's 10 gheals), with MR 12 and LMC 20. With LMC 20, each gheal will cost 9 mana.

      After 20 secs you will have used 9 x 10 mana, and regenerated 32 mana. Assuming your starting mana pool is 125, you will be left with 125 - 90 + 32 = 67 mana.


    3. Doing the same with LMC 40 and MR 7. With LMC 40, each gheal will cost 7 mana.

      After 20 secs you will have used 7 x 10 mana, and regenerated 28 mana. Assuming your starting mana pool is 125, you will be left with 125 - 70 + 28 = 83 mana.



    In conclusion, the LMC 40/MR 7 combo is better than the LMC 20/MR 12 combo. It leaves you with more mana.
     
  21. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Harley,

    Thanks for posting this, I think it'll be really helpful. I'd really like an explanation of what this line means though. The question's been asked a couple times but no real answer seems to have been given, or perhaps I'm just too dense with the math!

    I'm looking at the spreadsheet and I just don't see anywhere I could plug in the amount of MR from my suit. Like if I have 8 MR on my suit, or 4, or 10, etc. It seems you've made some sort of mental calculation to come up with '31', however I just don't get it.

    Like Connor I'd prefer to understand, rather than be told. Can you explain how we can modify the variable in this spreadsheet to represent how much MR we have on our suit?

    Also, is mana regen from spell buffs like Lich Form handled the same as mana regen from items?

    thanks
     
  22. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    Mr on your suit isnt accounted for independantly

    Therefore there is no "real" way to accuralty measure the amount of Mr your suit has.

    Only the total Mr you as a player will have.

    Hope that helps clarify things a little.
    [Edit: the second from last row...mr from gear thats where you put in the number of mr on your suit]
     
  23. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    don't forget, if you are human, you get mana regen from 20 focus

    also I think elves get a mana regen bonus, not sure what it is though

    and I have no idea what gargs get
     
  24. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    why not make a web based mana regen calc and link to it on uoguide?

    that way these questions would never come up in the first place

    doesn't everyone look for info on uoguide before asking a question here?
     
  25. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    The first 6 rows in column B is where you plug in your values.

    Replace the values with your own stats. MR from your items should be entered in B5. Just replace the 31 there with your own value. I used 31 here as this is the max value (there is a cap).

    Remember to update the other values like your med, focus, int etc.