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Manticore's Event Item Calculator

Discussion in 'UO Rares Collector' started by Manticore, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. Manticore

    Manticore Babbling Loonie
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    Thought I give it a shot.

    Factor X means if a person wants it bad enough, anything is possible. I understand not every item will fit this but most would. I've randomly tried it on many and it worked pretty well.

    Anyhow, it will only be up for a day or two anyways.

    Event Item Calculator.png
     
  2. Nails Warstein

    Nails Warstein Rares Festival Silent Auctioneer
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    I offer billion buyouts on all your uniques per your calculations :gee:
     
  3. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    1bil and 1gold
     
  4. Manticore

    Manticore Babbling Loonie
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    There were quite a few unique items from this season and last season that sold for 1 bil or less, e.g. the recent blood wings etc... But there is always the "X Factor" categories that could bump it way up.
     
  5. S_S

    S_S Certifiable
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    I like this. I tried it on a few of my favorite items I have. The prices I came up with from the calculator are prices I could be content with if I ever chose to sell those items. Nice job Manticore! :)
     
  6. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    This calculator is a great idea :) Thanks for making it Manticore.
     
  7. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    i dont really understand. why are there 5 in each level? just level of desirability split into 5 levels? i also think sound/effect and if its part of set would be good factors.
     
  8. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    All your factors besides rarity are subjective in nature and therefore can not be quantified by a static chart.

    My two cents
     
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  9. Manticore

    Manticore Babbling Loonie
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    That's a good one, forgot about that. The effects would definitely add more to the total.
     
  10. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I don't understand. What determines if something is "desirable"
     
  11. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Whether or not a lot of people are trying to buy one I suppose
     
  12. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Most of the time that sort of thing goes down privately not openly on the forums, so how do we know? For instance this week we saw Napa's drop with the birdies in the tree, and the Sonoma golden brick, and for sure Atlantic's shards for the sexy sword... those I consider "high end" (correct me if I am wrong) but we really didn't see openly public people asking about it.
    Then the X factor for people like me who collect food items for my Cats museum and fishing items for my Atl museum... I found this weeks fishing pole (maybe it was last week) an awesome drop because it fit my collection. There's a handful of us that fight over food items, but overall they aren't "desirable" yet I couldn't afford one of the cakes shu shu was selling...
    I'm just saying I think it's all subjective and trying to dictate prices by some sort of pricing chart is just going to work against the people trying to sell items.
    I mean there's this list here and one of the bullet points is "hue" Uh... hue? I like pinks and greens, but not necessarily for my food or fishing items... lol
    I don't mean to offend anyone, I just think it's impossible to declare a price on an item that doesn't exist yet, which is basically what we are doing here with this chart.
    *shrugs*
    Besides, dictating price takes the fun out of the haggle and trade aspect.
     
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  13. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    just start any drop at 350m......even if its a clicky....seems the way to go.....at least we know the start..god noes were it will finish
     
  14. Nails Warstein

    Nails Warstein Rares Festival Silent Auctioneer
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    This is a novel idea, I know we attempted this concept before, and nothing could seem to stick. Time to resurrect an old post I made back in July 8th, 2008. Oh how things have changed since then.

    http://stratics.com/community/threads/creating-a-helpful-rares-guide.9355/

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quoted From Nails Warstein,Jul 8, 2008

    Please read the instructions at the bottom to participate. Thank you!


    Over the years, I have tried hard to determine the value of rare items in terms of gold. Since the price of gold fluctuates so much this scale could be adjusted to fit the currency conversion. Hope this helps "NEW" players price their items for about the right price. Hope it also helps "New" players buy wisely. I understand completely that the market determines price for anything, so these values are NOT arbitrary.

    Rarity Scale – determining rarity on a scale 1 – 10 for collectible items.

    Rarity Level 10 – Worth could be valued at 500 million gold and beyond
    Rarity Level 9 – Worth Approximately 350 – 500 million gold
    Rarity Level 8 – Worth Approximately 200 – 350 million gold
    Rarity Level 7 - Worth Approximately 100 – 200 million gold
    Rarity Level 6 – Worth approximately 50 – 100 million gold
    Rarity Level 5 – Worth Approximately 25 – 50 million gold
    Rarity Level 4 – Worth Approximately 15 – 25 million gold
    Rarity Level 3 – Worth Approximately 5 – 15 million gold
    Rarity Level 2 – Worth Approximately 1 – 5 million gold
    Rarity Level 1 – Worth is valued under one million gold

    Unique – Automatically receives a value of 6
    Very Rare – Automatically receives a value of 5
    Rare – Automatically receives a value of 4
    Uncommon – Automatically receives a value of 3
    Common – Automatically receives a value of 2
    Spawning – Automatically receives a value of 1

    Color – Unique color add 1
    Duped – subtract 2 for any item that has been duplicated many times
    Graphic/Animated – Unique Graphic and/or Animated add 1 only even if it has both
    Nerfed – subtract 2 for any item that UO made similar items of
    Size/Name – Large Size and/or Cool Title add 1 only even if it has both
    Useful – Useful items you can wear receive 1
    Wearable – add +1 for all wearable rare items.

    Example – Vine Cord Sandals were originally unique so a value of 6 and they could be worn so you add 2, and 1 more for color and 1 for usefulness equals 10. Unfortunately they were duped and lost 2 points equals 8.

    Example – Royal Britannia Guard sash is common so equals 1, it is wearable add 1, and the Europa Gold/Catskills White/Oceania Purple add 1 more point for them. Normal royal guard sashes are a nice to have so it receives a rarity level of 2. The nice colored sashes are level 3 and could fetch as high as 5 - 15 million gold.

    The goal here is to help me create a good system to determine the value of rare items. Please attempt to use this scale according to the current guidelines to make good or bad examples. Then please add a helpful suggestion that will assist players buying desireable collectible rare items. Thank you for your participation!
     
  15. Peekay

    Peekay Slightly Crazed

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    Peekay's Event Item Price Calculator:
     
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  16. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    My event item calculator:

    Start the item as an auction and hope it sells. If it doesn't sell lower the starting price.
     
  17. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    event drop prices are simply getting crazy...so many events and so many items 1/10 and 1/20 asking 4-500m starts???? [wtf]....The whole event thing is like a runaway train and its seriously out of control.....time to get a grip again methinks....b4 it blows up in everyone face....just saying....
     
  18. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Please describe in detail "runaway Train" and "Seriously Out of Control" and "Get a grip" and "blows up in everyone face[sic]"....All scary and menacing words but hit me with it what do you specifically mean?
     
  19. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    THP probably means that since EM's are creating so many new items, the value of all rare items will eventually drop simply because when theres thousands of "rare" items none of them are really special anymore and people will lose interest in them. The blow up in everyones face part would be that since people lost interest, all of our collections would lose a ton of value.
     
    #19 Captn Norrington, Sep 29, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2014
  20. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Value is always in the eye of the buyer, if will be worth what they are willing to pay
     
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  21. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Which is something some people have been saying for years. On the other hand, you have others saying prices are getting too high for certain items.

    Some items go up in value, some go down, some fluctuate back and forth.
     
  22. Riply

    Riply Lore Keeper
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    Values are many times based on the wow factor of the graphic, the sounds it makes and if it falls into the category of your particular interests. As far as rares going for like 100 of millions or even billions you can blame that on all the gold that exisits. With all the em event items that exist I decided a number of years ago to limit myself to a certain topic and stick to that. On rare occassions I may purchase an item that just goes well with my deco design. I thank Manticore for his continued support in the rares community and with his most recent effort. Trying to create a system to figure out fair pricing on em event items is a very difficult if not impossible task.
    Oh and not to hijack this thread but I purchased a Joyfull statue at the last Atlantic rares festival and if anyone has any info on this item I would love to know its history.
    Thank you.
     
  23. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Then again ... while the dupers keep duping gold without punishment....and they will keep churning it out and selling for cash and folks keep buying it at 10/15 cents a mill to fund there collections.....and they will keep buying gold to keep up with the next collector.....then 100 dollars gonna get 1 billion...buy 3 more event items items...and sell 2 uve won.....etc etc.rinse and repeat..... never ending circle...spiralling upwards and onwards....the ems have got to keep making more and more items to keep folks happy to pay the subs or they leave....so the dupers keep making more duped gold/items to sell for cash to fund everyones apetite for more more more

    On reflection .....ill stick to being a fine arts holiday collector...[whatever]
     
  24. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Certifiable

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    I know I am in the minority here, BUT, I hope it does blow up in everyone's faces. Then perhaps the X-Sharders will stay home and I will attend events again. To me, getting an EM "drop" to immediately sale is not my reason to go to events. I went to have fun with people who have a vested interest IN MY SHARD. I'm not judging, merely stating my view.
     
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  25. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    There are plenty of people on your shard that do sell their drops. Not everyone has the same playstyle nor the same motives for attending, and its not anyones duty to make judgement on who should or should not be attending the events.
     
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  26. Lt.Snuggles

    Lt.Snuggles Seasoned Veteran
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    look on the bright side, if you get something that someone likes and you sell it to them, you're making their day!
     
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  27. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Tehnically the rares would have the exact same value whether there's a ton of gold, or very little. Right now if a rares worth 100m, then the amount of gold in the game doubles, it's worth 200m. It still has the same value in the games economy, you can still trade it for another item of equal value, the only difference is the number is bigger.
     
  28. Alexander of ATL.

    Alexander of ATL. Rares Fest Host | Atl June 2013
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    The rares economy will do and in fact, is doing what all the other economies in this game and even in real life are doing: fluctuating.

    An items value is ONLY determined by what someone will pay for it.

    Example:

    Over the span of this year, I spent 14 BILLION on a few items to complete a set I'VE WANTED FOR OVER 5 YEARS!!!

    Now, if i were to sell this set at its retail value, I would only get 8-10bil for it.
    Or.....

    Seeing as it's a unique set, I control the value of it and therefore can ask anything I want for it.


    I don't think any rare will lose it's value indefinitely. The value of an item is determined by the need for it and what someone is willing to pay.
     
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  29. Manticore

    Manticore Babbling Loonie
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    Not totally true. There is a slight bias now and for the last 2-3 years since the new event items have been more or less monopolized by less than 15 individuals (this figure could be much smaller). Once that takes place then pricing can be somewhat controlled (similar to what Alex just stated up there)in addition to the fact that as long as it is being fueled by a few collectors who are willing to pay this will not change. Now, one can argue that this new system is more fair but you and I and many others know it's not much different from previous methods. Even though I am not in vent with many of them regulars I get a pretty updated report on who got what from each event. And it does show a statistically significant bias towards the specific groups. Now, I have no opinion either way. My stance has always been my own and more power to them if they are able to do what I can't do. Those who get the items can and will discuss amongst themselves on what to set the price at. As long as the regular few who has to have it before anyone else does and is willing to pay for it, that price will always be the initial set price. Once the precedence is established, it will always be used as a reference and that list grows as more will sell for that ballpark so that everyone from that group will get the price more or less they set it at to begin with. Again, no opinion from me, I just choose not to fall into that trap.

    Funny thing is the few collectors who have paid billions now have gotten wiser over the years and begin making their own chars and now on occasion can also get the items but as long as there are new collectors feeding this system it will continue. My chart was something I used that works for me and has gotten a lot of criticisms as well as acceptances and it is as expected. Those who wants 10 billion for every item will say this system doesn't work, too many X variables, Manticore = price*2 and on and on and on. Just go check the boards on who is trying to sell these items and bumps after bumps because no one buys them and eventually lowering their price that's more similar to my chart. Either way it's fine with me. As long as I think some people will benefit from it I 'll post it. Those who shoots it down you have to take a closer look at what they've have done on this thread.
     
    #29 Manticore, Sep 29, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2014
  30. Nails Warstein

    Nails Warstein Rares Festival Silent Auctioneer
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    If we stick with just the calculator for a moment, the concept in of itself can be helpful for these said neophytes, but conceptually I still find it difficult for a beginner to learn how to apply it as it is currently structured in order to quantify an actual value. It still needs work. I recommend more rounded numbers, fewer rows, add more variables and make deductions which I eluded to in my 6 year old post. Here are some revised examples based on those I made 6 years ago.

    Color – Unique color never used before, rarely ever used, uncommonly used, always used, x-factor might be a popular color such as neon hot pink/blue
    Graphic - Unique graphic never used before, rarely ever used, uncommonly used, always used, x-factor might be a popular graphic such as spider
    Size - A quarter of a tile size, half a tile size, full tile size, two tiles, 3 - 4 tiles, more than 4 tiles, x-factor might be something such as a two-story statue
    Name Length - 1 word, 2 - 3 words, 4 or more words
    Animated - In constant motion, wind spirit comes to mind
    Double Function - Makes a sound, or animation when double clicked or walked by
    Useful application - Has mods, or gives a luck bonus so on and so forth
    Game application - Does it relate to classic UO game lore, can it be used for role playing purposes like pirating, royal guard, smithing, for a bar or kitchen
    Collection - Is it part of a set, or can it be added to similar themed items, like a complete set of statues, or a suit of armor, one specific example would be the addition of the leather phoenix armor boots
    Duped – Subtract value for any item that has been duplicated many times through the use of an exploit.

    Perhaps someone can envision what I am eluding to and build upon Manticore's current proposed calculator. Perhaps some might question the motivations behind creating a calculator, but the idea in of itself can be noble if done correctly. However despite many back and forth conversations on this topic, nothing useful has come to fruition, and I do harbor doubt that it is even possible.
     
    #30 Nails Warstein, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
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  31. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    I think desirability is highly subjective.

    I know there are quite a few "over a billion" rares that I wouldn't buy even at 150m simply because it wouldn't be something I'd be interested in. The brighter, bolder and less realistic the hue, the LESS I am attracted to it. On the other hand there are things that are worth more to me than they are to others. Collecting is a personal thing unique to each person.

    It is nice of people to try and build a price guide, but not only do I feel it isn't possible to make one that would be accurate, but that even WITH an accurate one... most folks are going to dance to their own drum.

    Let's not tie this forum up with more red tape and restrictions to divide the community further.
    Let folks sell things for what they want to sell them for... if you think it is too much, don't buy it. If it doesn't sell and they really want to sell it, they'll come down in price.

    If you are unsure of a price of something, do a search or ask on the forum. Most of the time if someone is far out of the ballpark on a PC, either high or low, others will speak up. Same thing goes with selling stuff. If you are new to selling and don't have a idea on how much something should sell for, DON'T ACCEPT OFFERS OVER PM/ICQ. Always ask folks to post their offers publicly. If someone is low balling you... chances are someone else hates them in this community and will speak up on it, offer higher or PM you a warning.

    Seriously though... let's all stop worrying about what others are doing and just worry about our own paths. If it is too high and no one wants to pay that much... it won't sell. If someone does buy something that is too high... that is what they feel the item is worth to them. It isn't anyone's place to tell people what they should or should not sell/buy for WITHOUT the person's invitation for advice.
     
  32. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Technically the rares and event items are worth nothing...thats the sum they will achieve at the end game..[true]

    The sooner the devs get rid of gold checks ..the better...and prices will start to fall on all rares and event items ...or fluctuate as its called in the trade

    The devs should consider making event drops ''shard specific''.....that is the drop cant leave the shard....the big boys/girls can still come and bag some of the drops so they still happy .....and the locals will have a better chance with less competetion.....alas with shard specific drops the prices they try to sell them will be smalerl shard prices only...so in this way the locals that missed out at the event can buy there own shard drop at a fraction of the crazy global prices we see today....

    just my thoughts ...my pennies worth as u will
     
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  33. Manticore

    Manticore Babbling Loonie
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    I disagree. A guide is just a guide. There are plenty of references in real life where guides are established to help people make competent decisions. You yourself and everyone on this board have used price guides in one form or another on something they've purchased at least once in their lifetime. You are correct in that ultimately it depends on the buyer. But tell me, do you know anyone who doesn't enjoy a discount and "subjectively" pays over retail? I have met a few of these people and usually they don't stay in that mentality very long. Is it wrong for the seller to want 110% retail or the buyer who is willing to pay the 110%? That's not my call and I don't care since it's none of my business and that's not what this thread was originally about. As I've stated before, i've received many ICQs and posters here that appreciated the idea and they will take it and modify it for their own purposes. For someone who owned thousands of event items (Manticore), do you honestly think I remember what I paid/bought/traded for everything that I owned or currently own? This guide helps me down the road if I want to sell something to draw reference from. Yes and "neophytes" can benefit from this if they run into low-balers and high-balers down the road.

    Instead of being afraid of this price guide as somehow controlling the market, you need to give the general public more credit than that and less credit towards me. I don't have mind control you know althought it would be a nice asset to have :D.
     
    #33 Manticore, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  34. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    I never stated that you had mind control and I didn't attack you. If folks can use it as a base and make it personal for them, that is great! Personally, I don't view it as being useful as it stands simply because many aspects are subjective and can be interpreted by individuals. That is MY opinion and I certainly don't claim to speak for others. The problem is that an' item that you might consider an item "110%" of it's value... others might see it as being a great deal. That statement is the core of my issue. The price of anything is subjective. If we all viewed things as priced the same, then my vendors would be out of business. It is about competition. If you want to sell an item for less, do so and others can sell for more.

    An' yes, I use a price guide for my vendors... in fact it is 22 pages long... but it is one I created and I'm sure others wouldn't price 90% of what I have on there the same as I do. It isn't static, it is fluid and ebbs and flows with the changes in the market.
     
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  35. Manticore

    Manticore Babbling Loonie
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    Heh, you and I are on the same lines just worded differently. The proposed guide is not a hard stance for anything its just a guide. Personal subjectivity is welcomed and assumed but that has nothing to do with this post. Too many emotions were added to this thread. As Nails put it, at the core of this is just a guide. You may have a 22 page guide but you didn't create that yesterday, it probably took you years to put that together. What I propose is something that anyone (new or old) can utilize based on the current market trend and go from there. People have begun using this already and if you disagree just simply don't use it.
     
  36. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    They tried that already a few years ago. It failed, very badly. The locals that claimed they wanted to keep the drops as memories turned out to not really care about the memories, they just wanted to sell them all. Since the drops were shard specefic, they couldn't get as much for them as they wanted, which made them very angry. So basically, them doing shard specefic drops just made the collectors mad they couldn't bring the items to their museums, and made the locals mad they couldn't sell them anymore.
     
  37. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Then we will continue as we are... with the 50-75 hardcore eventers grabbing 3/4 of the drops.. trading between themselves .. and the odd local getting lucky inbetween...awesome plan.....[not]
     
  38. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Well, no matter what they do people will always complain about the system, in my opinion this is the *most* fair system they have created so far, yes, the 50-75 hardcore eventers still get a lot of items, but locals get a few to, and before, with the last system it was more like 10-20 hardcore eventers getting the items and locals getting none, so the new system has allowed 50+ new people to have a chance at recieving items, and also allows locals to get a few to.
     
  39. Riply

    Riply Lore Keeper
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    Ahh the drama of this thread I have to chuckle at some of the posts here. I mean we have a player that's trying to help out with some kinda guide to makes some sence of the rares market. Then it either gets slammed or we get off subject about how unfair the UO world of rares is. At least for me its a game for relaxtion and fun and this is what makes me kinda laugh inside. In the real world I buy and sell rarity collectible items for a living way before this game was around. So having an insight at least in the real world of rarities you can say i'm an expert in my field. :)
     
  40. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Let's just go by Flutter's pricing guide.


    If I own it. It means it's awesome. Awesome items sell for bunches.

    If I don't own it and want it, the price will go up substantially once I buy it.

    If I do not own it yet but want it, Flutter discount.

    If I don't own it and don't want it, just give it to one of my friends. ICQ me with what item you have and I'll tell you what friend to give it to.


    :grin::thumbsup::thumbup1::smile2:
     
  41. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    :dominatrix: :mistress: :woman: :bowdown: :whip: :hula: :smooch: :drool: :love: :blushing: ;) :mylittlepony:
     
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  42. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    The ole axiom, an item is worth what someone is willing to spend, is the only iron clad pricing scheme that I know of. Any endeavor to predict the value, of an item that cost no resources is simply an exercise in futility.
     
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  43. Manticore

    Manticore Babbling Loonie
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    I guess my concern with these type of comments is why are you trying to convince other people to not use it? If you don't believe it in just simply don't use it. I've stated from the beginning and multiple times since that this is just a guide and if people find it useful they are more than welcome to use it and if not then don't. By stating your reasons for not wanting to use it appears more manipulative than personal preference. It's like saying if you don't like McDonald chicken sandwich, it's not enough you just don't eat it but you have to tell the world why you don't want to eat it. All I did was to show there is a McDonald chicken sandwich.
     
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  44. Athelas

    Athelas Lore Keeper
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    I'm not opposed to new ideas in the least, let alone something that would help people get footing in terms of auction starting bids and price checks. But telling people they should either accept it and use it or if they don't intend to use it, be silent about it, seems a bit much. This is a forum, and feedback is what you'll get every time, whether you want it or not. Both for the good and bad.
     
  45. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Please allow me to assuage your concerns and point out the error in your assumptions. I have not advised anyone, whether on the forum or otherwise, to use or not use your chart. In this thread, like you, I have stated my personal opinion, nothing more nothing less. I'm sorry you dislike my opinion. Surely, you are not naive enough to think you can post to a public forum without receiving input from both sides?

    To be crystal clear, I care not if someone uses or doesn't choose to use your tool. Ultimately the market will decide on the prices for all items.....Which coincidently is exactly what I have been saying.
     
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  46. Manticore

    Manticore Babbling Loonie
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    I appreciate your point-of-view as you are entitled and welcomed. I see my recent comment was misplaced. However, how many posts does it take to get your point across?

    #1. "1bil and 1gold"

    #2. "All your factors besides rarity are subjective in nature and therefore can not be quantified by a static chart. My two cents"

    #3 "The ole axiom, an item is worth what someone is willing to spend, is the only iron clad pricing scheme that I know of. Any endeavor to predict the value, of an item that cost no resources is simply an exercise in futility."
     
  47. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    I apologize, I was unaware there was a limit to the amount of times I could post. I recommend in the future that you preface your posts with the acceptable number of responses that you would like from any one person. Of course you understand that you have no reasonable expectation that anyone will follow this advice.

    But to answer your question, "How many posts does it take to get your point across?"

    I hate to answer a question with a question but, how many posts have you done in this thread in defense of your opinion? Using those numbers I would consider my paltry two posts (I do not consider #1 to be an opinion but rather a joke) to be well within forum etiquette. Furthermore, I consider #2 and # 3 to be different thoughts entirely. Thus the reason I posted them.
     
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  48. 4runnersport

    4runnersport Seasoned Veteran
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    :popcorn: cat fight
     
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