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Mark Jacobs and his opinions on Forums

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Vallend, Sep 23, 2008.

  1. Vallend

    Vallend Sage
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    I found this article of an interview with Mark Jacobs over on MMORPG to be very interesting. They were questioning him about Warhammer and Mythic not having any official forums. Warhammer Online: Mark Jacobs on GOA, Forums and Accountability Read what he has to say on the subject.

     
  2. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    My reply to Mark Jacobs would be this. Suppose 50,000 users all cancelled their accounts in 1 week, what would he learn from that? He would learn something upset them enough to cancel, but nothing definitive beyond that. His comments are spoken like a true "suit". It shows how they look only at the bottom line and that the opinions and ideas of the user community have no meaning whatsoever. If you ever had any doubt about whose game this is, ours or theirs, this should clear it up nicely for you. We have no stake whatsoever in this game.
     
  3. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
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    Makes one wonder how Mr. Jacobs sees his target public.
    Tyrannosaurus and such.

    Gee, thanks.
     
  4. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    I think his intended meaning was "predatory".
    When MMO players (or indeed, any players) feel wronged, they can react disproportionately...
    Hell, let's leave out the "players" part.
    When people feel wronged, they can react disproportionately to the situation.
    Calling for people to resign/be fired, as a result of a delay, or bug... Personally attacking someone, for something only peripherally related to them...

    The way I see it...
    Yes, without the players, there would be no game.
    But, without the developers and all, there would also be no game.
    Keeping the developers happy is something that can actually be accomplished, whereas keeping players happy... Never going to happen...
     
  5. But....but...but.....

    That's NEVER happened HERE....

    *tries to keep a straight face*


    *fails miserably*

    :lol:
     
  6. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    I can definately see where he`s comming from.Just spend a day in Uhall and it all becomes apparent.Doesn`t matter what EA does,its wrong.No one can be made happy and theres nothing but anti UO and down with EA threads to look at.

    I don`t think he`s saying they don`t look at and take feed back from other forums,he just won`t have an "official" forum.It won`t (IMO) effect the playerbase,since there will be a slue of other sites to whine and complain on.

    What they need are log in polls,maybe with a small area for comments.Forums are no way to measure player`s feelings since the smallest majority of players actually come to forums.

    I think alot more players just log in and play and either have no interest or just don`t care about forums and such.
     
  7. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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  8. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    I like his attitude ... wait wrong blog entry.
     
  9. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Well I'd rather have said users on a form where their posts could be moderated by staff members and their accounts tied to said posting accounts so all were responsible for their actions and posts. When you have no authority over the forum hosts or mods, and can't link posters and accounts, that weakens your control of said game IMO.

    Of course, if your customers are happy, having them on official forums is good publicity. If they're not happy (as UO customers frequently aren't) you'll want to deny their existence. You don't want potential customers seeing how angry the existing ones are. Though that also favours company managed forums where you can prune back the whiny unnecessary posts... *shrug* I'm glad Jeremy and our devs do take time to speak to us, because in all honesty if there was total forum silence from them as standard, I wouldn't believe they truly gave a damn about our game.

    Sure, we're not always constructive in our posts here, but when we are, whether it's feedback on a new addition or trying to find a but, I don't think the forums are useless at all. You can also see even in the rants who is talking rubbish and who has thought through their opinions. Polls are great, but so are forum discussions.

    Wenchy
     
  10. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    Um... good for them?
     
  11. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I want to know where our strike team is to hunt down the cheats and bots in UO. Why selling gold is bad in WAR but scripting to farm gold and selling items to produce sellable gold is tolerated in UO. Then I'm tempted to email him details of websites selling UO gold and distributing scripts used by said cheats. Wonder if something would get done then...

    We sure could use that strike team announcing that player X has been nuked or giving us a status report of how many players were banned.

    Oh wait, this is UO. Keep dreaming Wenchy.

    I think it's a good thing they're chasing down gold sellers in WAR, but we need to see the same level of dedication to rid UO of similar pond scum.

    Wenchy
     
  12. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I understand, and I agree with the argument that the only thing that counts in the end is whether people choose to play the game or not.

    Message boards like these must be HELL for a community manager, and I don't know whether I'd have the nerve to stand such a job for a long time. You need nevers made out of steel cables to not be frustraded from the flaming, the unreflected whining, and the non-constructive criticism going on on the boards.
    Even constructive discussions can be very misleading, as often they do not reflect the opinion of the majority of players, but the opinion of the minority frequenting these boards (like myself).

    I still think that a clever community manager like Jeremy can extract valuable information from these boards about what's going well and what's going wrong with the game (mostly the latter, as people usually post negative, and not positive things). Some people here are veterans who may have a very narrowed view on the game, but still they recognize game flaws very efficiently, thanks to many years of experience.

    The boards can be very useful for a game developer, if he knows how to extract the important information.
     
  13. SO?

    Ban 400 accounts.
    Activate 400 more.

    Banning isnt the answer.
    Let them sell whatever they want.

    Get rid of scripting, cheating, and duping.
    Let people have the same field and do or sell as they wish.

    Many of you dont get it. Let see I sold gold maybe 6 months ago now. Not looking to sell anything as of late or in the future.

    Remember gold once sold for $20 or $30 a million. Add the dupe, the cheats and then sellers drove price down to what $1 a million.

    Ohh my point. You think selling ruins the game? Come on. For every seller there is a buyer.

    Youll never break sellers and buyers.

    BUT BUT create a game the shuts down scripting, prevents duping, and overall chases cheaters down... now you have a game that is managed.


    Till then enjoy your - ban the sellers witch hunt.

    Ohh my other point.
    Less sellers, less gold, you will see gold creep back up to $10 per million. Hmm. If I have 200 million in my bank. My friend or so and so, says "ill give you $10 for a million..."


    If you dont get it you dont get it.
     
  14. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    If there was no market for gold, there wouldn't be much point in a bot parking their butt in the Dojo to farm said gold.

    If there was no market for gold, why would a player farm BRSKs and other items, then generate gold from said sales, if that gold couldn't be sold, or that market dropped off significantly?

    Still going to say that gold selling doesn't support or encourage cheating? Or harm the game in the process?

    You're saying cut down the cheats, I'm saying the same thing. I want all cheats gone. But I realise that many cheat so they can earn RL $ from UO, which means the cheats who produce and sell gold should also be nuked.

    I don't care what flavour the cheat, I don't want it in UO. If EA can ban all the scripters without stopping average Joe selling his spare gold for RL $, fine. But either way we need a dedicated team like WAR has to go through this game and take action, then be seen to have taken action.

    Wenchy
     
  15. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    So gold sellers are like drug dealers?

    (In the sense that it's an economy that's proven impossible to completely quash?)

    (We've gone around in circles on the ethics/mechanics of it on these boards many times and all have our well-entrenched views, but it's interesting to see the style he is using with the new game; he may be doomed, but I like the attitude)
     
  16. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    They are more like the wet stuff under Dog droppings.
     
  17. Rix/\

    Rix/\ Guest

    I don't believe him.

    As far as gold selling there is good and bad. What makes it bad is when the game allows players and buyers to make transactions unsupervised unsecure resulting in giving the game a bad rep and an uncontroled ingame economy.

    The good?


    Joe Shmoe gamer, works 40+ hours week has 3 kids. Loves to play MMO's, and in most MMO's they encourage group play; groups dungeon group quest being part of guild's clans etc etc. Joe doesn't have but maybe 1-2 hrs he can spend playing a game everyday if at all. Maybe in a week he'll play a total of 10hrs 30-40 hrs a month. And of course the games charge monthly fees avg 12-15 bucks a month. But to fully enjoy the game with the friends he's met in game he has to spend more time to keep up and progress in the game. He doesn't want to sit around and watch his high lvl friend go off and leave him behind cause he didn't have the time to lvl his char. 2 months into the game he's so far behind he has to find new friends that are his same lvl to keep enjoying the game. Having a service available to players that will allow them to advance in the game with skill/gold/items in UO's case even houseing. I feel would drive off those gold spamming farmers that clutter the games with their scammy looking ad's and what not.

    UOgamecodes was headed in the right direction. With the tokens and all maybe they need to expend that idea more to whats in demand
     
  18. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ban the scum in the 1st round, all of them, then get the cheaters, scripters, and dupers, and make gold sales illegal......if you can't earn it, take your lazy keister over to WoW, the kiddie game.

    The attitude, 1 mill only cost ya a buck, gives vendors the notion, all players are dumb enough to spend reallife money on pixel gold, which they don't even own. (einsteins).....it ruined the game.:lick:
     
  19. Orvago

    Orvago Stratics' Finest
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    This topic is getting quite some buzz over on the Turbine LotRO Forums as well.
     
  20. If his response to gold sellers is "Go to Hell", does that then mean that UO is Hell?
     
  21. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Are you kidding? I am certain he was NOT talking about the Players in the GAME.

    I AM CERTAIN he was talking about Posters to Message Boards

    While the next statement will seem rude and directed at you, I can assure you it is neither, in intent.

    What real life world have you lived in for the last 9 years?

    There is a growing ONLINE POPULATION of people that are ADDICTED TO ONLINE VERBAL ABUSE/WARFARE/CONFRONTATION. They will go to any message board, do anything and everything they can to get their "Hit/Fix". I am CERTAIN these are the people he is talking about. It is under NO CIRCUMSTANCE UNIQUE TO UO. It is prevalent in EQ, WoW, the OLD MYUOBOARDS, The Old CoB etc.

    This group of people have NO PORBLEMS with creating dozens of accounts and then acting as "THE COMMUNITY" as in Well, 20 people are for and YOUR against so ... When the reality is one person (as in single) spoke through 20 accounts. There was an individual, NOT on the EQ official forums but an equivalent to Stratics, that had 67 accounts that were being used to manipulate the flow of threads.

    There are people on THESE boards that "CLAIM" to have over 50 UO accounts and some have said over 100 UO accounts. The man is drop dead, absolutely right to stay out of the Forums Business. NOT because they can NOT be a positive construct, RATHER BECAUSE THE VERY VERY VERY FEW WILL RUIN IT FOR EVERYONE ELSE.

    He is by all means right and correct to label them a T-REX and his analogy to Jurassic Park is 100% DEAD ON TARGET.

    The Game owners/runners would LOVE TO BE ABLE to create a virtual JAIL/PRISON for these people but with the prolific Credit Cards and totally easy to get, they stand NO CHANCE. But they are ALL (Blizard, EA, Sony Online Entertainment etc) continueing to work together to REMOVE THESE SOCIAL PARIAH's.

    It is my opinion, that it will be found that the majority of this group will be eventually classified as "Credit Card Kids". Meaning, that Mommy and / or Daddy could NOT or did NOT have the time to be involved in the childs life and let WoW, EQ, UO raise them. That getting them a new Credit Card and Game was CHEAPER than Day Care, Baby sitters etc.
     
  22. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    I agree with pieces of his opinion. I play FFXI as well as UO. I visit many informational sites with forums for that game. None of them are official and no devs ever comment on them. Most discussions are still heated sometimes but much less brutal than many posts I read (and sometimes write) here. Their update cycle is about three months. The updates are bug free and most folks positively rave about them when they come. In defense of that statement, they always seem to address at least one of the major gripes I have about the game. So it is possible to keep your finger on the pulse of the community without official forums.

    As for Stratics, UO and Jeremy I think she (Jeremy) does an excellent job of not letting herself get put under the microscope these days. And thats a good thing. Because if she is trying to smooth over something here on the boards that a lot of folks are angry about... well she is severely out numbered. And those that are passionately angry about a specific change will absolutely sluaghter her no matter how hard she tries to make them feel better. I know this. I have been in that frame of mind here. I have written cruel things in hopes that those resposible would read them. And the only thing that was gonna change it was a revert to the old ways... very rarely will that happen. I can definitely relate to that argument in Jacobs' blog.

    I will be voting with my credit card more often from here on out. I have three accounts I know will never close and one account I'm using as a spare house holder. If SA is a flop to me that 4th account will be turned off. But on the flip side. IF SA exceeds my expectaions I will be buying additional items from the online store.

    Take those rediculously over priced storage and char slot packages. There was no way in hell I was going to pay so much for so little. After the Mag event I was so thrilled with this game I actually upgraded one account. I did this because I wanted to do something to show my appreciation. All of the sudden the price seemed just right to me. I have more accounts to upgrade... or add soulstones too. I hope I upgrade all of my accounts over time. I hope I fill all of them with soulstones. Come on UO... make me do it!
     
  23. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    The quote above just shows the kind of narrow-mindedness that continues to plague Ultima Online, and probably explains why DAoC is hardly anything more than a footnote in the books of the MMOG market. Trust that with the decisions recently made regarding WAR and its release (ie: too early, missing features, typical of EA) that it's on the same track. It's just got fresh upholstry and a shiney, new car smell to it right now.

    Official forums being bad because of the things people say is quite an interesting stance. Because, you know, those forums would be unmoderated, I'm sure. Basically, in short, he's saying that the customers have the right to complain.

    He just doesn't actually have to listen.
     
  24. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    hahaha!
     
  25. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    In his reference to ABUSIVE comments.. he is spot on.. no one.. paying customer, previous player, forum moderator or any other, has the right to post abusive comments on game owned forums or third party forums. We have all seen them.. we all know vile poisonous posts when we see them....

    However, his view on feedback and accountability to their customers is off the mark by the same mile he references. If dropping your account is the ONLY way to hold EA accountable.. then one must wonder what kind of feedback EA is looking for. You can not determine whether the canceled subscription is for personal reasons (life changing events, military call up, etc) or a direct result to something EA has done (or not done).. such as not taking care of the rampant cheating, introducing new content that is racist, sexist, homophobic, or just plain stupid, unwieldy game mechanics, poor game playability, tedious game play, etc.

    Very insightful comments in that blog.. very telling on EA's overall viewpoint of their customers.
     
  26. Good for them!
    And ...well-said Wenchkin!!!
    Sadly, some people here dont get the correlation between gold sellers and scripting, cheating and duping.
    Or is it something else entirely? say, uhm, they are doing it too?!?

    Anyway, it surely would be nice if UO got as much love as WAR seems to be getting.

    Ban them all!

    :thumbup1:
     
  27. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Reading that is interesting.

    It makes me wonder why we can't get names and locations of those who were banned for duping published for UO -- it would be better than the "Well, we banned a few people today" stuff we currently get, and I hardly see the release of a character name and a set of UO coords as a violation of any privacy policy (particularly since EA/Mythic owns the character).

    Nice to see hardball action.

    Still inconsistent with UO's past, which is probably why they are too chicken to implement a strong policy against gold selling. Instead, we all get banned if we mention www.google.com in game.
     
  28. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Not to put too fine a point on it, but he's living in a strange world where people who invest a ton of time in something are somehow not connected to the investment of time and energy they've made.

    Of course, it's that very connection to the investment that makes MMOGs so addictive, but why worry about that if you can say, "Well, you could always just cancel," knowing that most people will only cancel if (1) a better product comes along that does the same thing or (2) something immensely irrevocable happens (such as a person is hacked and loses anything, why start over).

    Most people simply aren't going to use the "cancel" button as a means to deliver a message.

    And so Mark Jacobs gets to live in a fun little world where he fails to understand customer service. Given the state of UO's customer service under Mythic, can anyone here actually say they're surprised?
     
  29. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    You know in Vegas when someone is caught cheating they share video and other information accross all casinos. I wonder whay they couldn't do something like that here. At least between all MMOs in the same company.
     
  30. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
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    Hmmm, some interesting thoughts and good points.

    However, then why is there a the need for a community manager? A CM is the liaison between the players and the game developers. If you are asking that person to communicate with the players the attacks still exist. What is the difference if it is the "official" forum or not? Is it saying I "officially" am making a death threat or malicious comment against you?

    The CM still has to siphon through the fansite forums to get some general feedback. If you want to keep up the communication with players that Mythic is well known for that is.

    Maybe not having an official fansite but a list of fansite approved locations is still the way to go? That has always been my preference. I'm still waiting for a comment on that on our flashscreens upon login on what we're doing with the whole link no link in game decision.

    Whatever the outcome, even more bear hugs go to Jeremy for being willing to do what she does.
     
  31. Fizzleton

    Fizzleton Journeyman
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    It is also a matter of addiction. The question is at some point: How intense is your relationship to a game? How much of your personality is bound to your online presence? If people built up their personality mostly through their online presence, then there is much more fodder for anger and even hatred compared to someone who plays eg uo like any other spare time activity.

    There are kids out there who are in therapy due to their wow addiction. (talking of Germany). They built up and lived their online personality; and when the rest of their lives went downward due to their addiction, they said "I will kill myself if you take away wow from me". So if your personality is bound to a game, your reaction towards things that influence your online-existence becomes exaggerated.
     
  32. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    They DO!

    They share all the information they can that is relevant to identifying these people.

    Unlike Vegas, the Internet allows for anonymity. Credit Cards allow for anonymity.

    It is really a losing proposition for the game owners. Yet they are dedicated to dealing with them. Not because they are altruistic or anything, but because these people HURT their bottom line.
     
  33. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Community Manager in terms of the EQ Boards/Forums, is a person(s) that keep the peace on the boards AND identify threads/topics that are seemingly "Hot". Behind the scenes they are the first line of defense to detect the "problem posters and all their sock puppets". To then bring these posters to the attention of the Team such that they can discount/ignore the "sock puppets".

    The real issue on a Game owned board/forum is the same as any of them. When the very few, that have dozens of accounts and post on the boards through these accounts to manipulate the flow of information/people, with the intent of being disruptive. It is then that the spirit of the boards become perverted.

    That is what makes his statement about voting with the Credit Card rather than a "Poll" is 100% on Target.
     
  34. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    I disagree with Mark Jacobs, fire him. He's a bad cloth designer.
     
  35. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    I think if Mark Jacobs is no longer having fun as a Game Developer (or whatever he does) he should find a new line of work.
     
  36. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Given some of the poo I have seen flung around here in recent months, I can understand the viewpoint of not wanting official forums.

    However, Mr. Jacobs needs to understand that there needs to be official communities for the game players, at least in terms of shared resources.

    The hard part is to make it to where the pages with data for the games are officially sanctioned, while treating any attached forums as unofficial, or at least, less official than the data pages.

    He also needs to understand how important it is for there to be an official presence even in unofficial forums. Some things just won't be discussed with the company through the official channels, and a post by an official rep in an unofficial board can often prevent dozens of redundant help calls, bug reports or other issues.

    I also think the "voting by credit card" line is nonsense. It is hard to "vote by credit card" if the issue is something that comes up 1 week after being billed for 90 or 180 days, since the days STILL tick off after shutting down, and you don't get a refund for unused days either. It also fails because if a person DOES leave - how are they ever gonna know if the reason is fixed - or if the company actually understands WHY they left in the first place? Which in its own way, leads back to the forum issue.

    There needs to be a distinction made. "Official Forums" logically should be ones ran by the company with employees. What Stratics, UOForums and others might be would be "SANCTIONED forums" - forums that exist by permission (and a list of guidelines that must be followed), with some official representation in them, but whose day to day affairs are ran by the community, not the company. If one gets down to it, before losing official status, that's really what Stratics was - sanctioned by EA, not an arm of EA.
     
  37. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    yeah, Pub 55. lol.
     
  38. Is this guy for real? LOL. The man doesnt even know what the meaning of accountability is:

    Accountability: an obligation or willingness to accept responsibility or to account for one's actions

    In the first part of his statement I think he has this word confused with the word success:

    Success: a favorable or desired outcome ; also : the attainment of wealth

    Lets see if his statement makes more sense written with the correct meaning of the words:

    Success is when the players vote with their credit card. That's success.

    LOL...lets do the second part of his statement:

    If the players feel we aren't doing our job, they should cancel. I've always said that. We are unsuccessful that way.

    WOW, what a huge difference those statements make when you use the correct word!

    This part of his interview is the only one that makes any sense. No one should be allowed to post threats and vulgarity on any game board. If you walked into any public business upset with the service and spoke to the manger like some people do here on the boards, you would be at the least, asked to leave, if not escorted out the door by security.

    If he insists on using the word accountable he should use it in that last paragraph. WHo is accountable for remarks and threads on a board? The people who moderate and run the board. Its not like such remarks cant be removed and true concerns of the players be left for the appropriate people to see.

    Boards, internet advertising, and feedback are some of the most useful tools for success in any business today. And boards can be controlled. He is obviously using the lame excuse that boards cant be controlled for "all we want is your credit card, not your opinions." Now that he is accountable for!
     
  39. a slave girl

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    "Ohh my other point.
    Less sellers, less gold, you will see gold creep back up to $10 per million."



    Those who do not buy gold DO NOT CARE if the price climbs to 1 billion dollars per million...

    Only gold sellers care how much the price of gold is. Those who buy just won't buy if it's more than they can afford?

    I played Warhammer all day yesterday.

    Got messages at least 5 times about a gold selling website.

    Paged on them EACH AND EVERY TIME.

    Received messages here and there that accounts were shut down and some actual player names were banned.

    Loved it.

    Now if we could just get that system in UO...
     
  40. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Such an odd mix in this excerpt.....Such an odd mix of the smart and the stupid, the right and the wrong. The sublime and the ridiculous.


    The sublime.
    The notion that boards can cause mob mentality, "ganging up," and the like instead of community? Right on the money. 100%. These boards back up that notion to an almost comical degree. At our worst, we're like bad parodies of message board posters. If we were characters in a film about the Internet culture, critics would say that we'd have to be exaggerations. But we're not.

    The ridiculous.
    The notion that people unhappy should just leave, and that leaving is the ultimate feedback? The very first reply to this thread disproved that. If 50,000 people leave, and that's all the information you have, you've learned absolutely nothing. Now granted, I do wish we had more of that on these boards in that there's plenty of folks who are clearly so irreparably unhappy they should just leave and stop screwing things up.

    But to refer to out and out leaving the game as "feedback" is someone no one as educated as M. Jacobs is should say.

    The Ridiculous
    When he referred to himself as being "on the boards" I wanted to laugh. Maybe he's on other boards, but he's not on the boards of his biggest MMO.

    We may suck on these boards. But, we're still his largest single customer base. That should really be worth something.

    The sublime.
    That beating people up on a message board isn't accountability is again exactly 100% correct. Whether you like Jeremy or not, I'd find it difficult to not admire how well she puts up with our crap.


    So what are we to make of this? The sublime and the ridiculous all combined into one blog posting.

    Personally I hate blogs. And now I think I see why. They aren't exactly much more conducive to rational discussion than, say, message boards are!

    -Galen's player
     

  41. Im all for no ingame advertising. The rules are the rules.

    Right... those that dont buy dont care. Better yet, those the play for the game dont care.

    But I bet if gold climb high enough youd be tempted to sell...
    $50 per million.

    I know I would. Just 1 million. Why do I sell? Well it was to pay for many many accounts. Now I slimmed backed so no need to sell.

    If UO was better, Id open more accounts again and populate other shards. But its only good enough now-a-days for me, to hang on Atlantic.
     
  42. a slave girl

    Stratics Veteran

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    It is true that some people will do anything for a buck.

    I've never been tempted to sell anything I have in UO for cash. I am not against selling accounts but my accounts I created and that's too personal a thing to sell.

    I don't come to UO to work, I come to play.

    The minute that UO becomes a J O B for me I'm out.
     
  43. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    :lol:

    It certainly seems like it lately with all the cheaters running free.
     
  44. I dont think that the game was ever intended to be set up in order for the players to make real money off of or to even make a living off of. It was designed for the producers and developers to make money off of and to give people like us something to enjoy.

    Ive never believed in selling UO gold for real cash. IMO, if anyone should sell gold and profit from it, it should be EA games. They own this game, not us. Why should any of us make money off of thier work? Sounds illigal to me.:)

    And, no, I dont accept the argument that "well, we WORKED hard to make the gold that we are selling." No, the average player didnt work, they PLAYED a game and aquired gold. THere is a big difference in working and playing.

    I know there are actual sweat shops out there making gold on the game to resell, but be honest, who really makes the money there? The workers who put in 8 to 15 hours a day runnig scripts, cheats, and dupes in order to keep up with thier "quotas"? Heck no! Its the owners of the sweat shop making the big time bucks. Does anyone really think this does not affect the economics of the game?

    Raising the price of gold for selling purposes will not in any way help the UO economy. Buying gold in game is only transfering it from one player to another. The only profit from this comes in the form of real cash in someones pocket.
     
  45. Yeah but there is a whole lotta extremes in you statement.

    Sweat shops. Suck. But hell, there are sweat shops all over the world.

    Freaking look China and Walmart, and our buying of products that way.
    Over 50,000 babies harmed because of melamine in chinese milk products, the same the was in dog food. What does melamine do? Increase the protein score in there product. So I was on a rant. UO isnt repsonsible for sweatshops people are.


    Guy making a living selling game gold. That his business a bit entrepueneril (hehe however you spell it)

    Cheating, scripting, and duping will always be the problem.

    Oh well. To each his own.

    I dont care if a guy buys 10 million. Thats his life.
    I care (sort of) if it take me 3 years to make 10 million to sell or not to sell BUT some schmoe come in a dupes 1 billion and F's up the game.

    Anyway. Peace.
     
  46. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    I actually had to pause and think about who Mark Jacobs is. As for his interview rolleyes:.
     
  47. IMO, my statement about the sweat shops is not "extreme", it is a fact, they exist.

    Exactly my point...its the people in the game that are trying to make a living off of UO that are creating these sweat shops. UO isnt doing it, it is the people who are running these sweat shops that are responsible as I said in my post:

    No disrespect intended here, but its this type of attitude in the game that allows people to continue to dupe, run scripts and cheats. Im sure they all are hoping we all say, "Oh, well to each his own." Then they would have no fear whatsoever of being caught....who would care enough to turn them in?
     
  48. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    1. Don't buy stuff for RL cash and all the sellers will go away.

    2. Mark Jacobs, what a tool.
     
  49. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    This is very true. However, I think you'll still find that a vast majority of customers who still enjoy most portions of a game will not cancel their accounts in order to make a statement against a certain particular portion that they feel enraged about.

    And then there's the other side of the coin. Take SWG for example. They changed the game from an opening gaming system similar to UO's where it was based on skill points devoted to doing certain things, and changed it over to a level-based game. Sony lost more than half of its subscriber base overnight, and they've never recovered. Since that last expansion YEARS ago, they've not had a true expansion. Sure, they've still got people working on the game, and the game gets content updates, so it's not in the abysmal failure department, but it certainly is not at the levels that it once was.

    Which leads me to the point that developers often take the stance that -- regardless of whatever the customer base does -- their decisions are the correct ones for the future of the game. Regardless of how untrue that proves to be.
    There is definitely something to be said for parental involvement in online gaming. There are plenty of parental decisions, lessons, et cetera to be taken care of in the realm of online gaming -- but many parents figure it's just a video game, my kid'll be fine.

    Certainly I'll always be a fan of video gaming, almost without regard to content (some games do push the buck -- ie: the Columbine game that was made but thankfully never released), but I'll also ALWAYS be a fan of responsible parenting and responsible parental decisions regarding video games.
     
  50. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Mark Jacobs' view on forums reminds me of his views against RMTs.

    It seems to me like he is misdiagnosing the Cause and implementing policies based on that logic.

    Cause - some people are childish, naughty, and sometimes downright evil on community forums
    Effect - abandon official community forums because of some people

    Alternate Solution - tie game accounts to forum accounts and implement a zero tolerance for the T-rex mentality that likes munching on the little goat. Obviously these people are not benefitting the game community if their maturity in an anonymous forum persuades them to make such naughty comments...

    Cause - some people cheat in games and promote to the destruction of games
    Effect - ban RMTs because some people cheat in games and sell their cheated gains

    Alternate Solution - focus heavily on the cheating in the game and deal with the problem at the core. Perhaps even use/create a service like livegamer that give Mythic a percentage and ties trading accounts to game accounts (exactly what I aspired to do before the recent round of bannings and additional research made me realize I would need a whole lot more startup funding, and I'm not one to be controlled by venture capitalists). Obviously these cheats are not solely being used for RMT and these cheats cannot be benefitting the game community (else they would be deemed legal)...

    In other words, he is being a typical and smart businessman.
    He is taking the most cost effective approaches to the problems (and not the most idealistic approaches or approaches that could net signicant monetary gains a few steps down the path).