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MaxisLee: "I am fine with bots"

Discussion in 'EA Land/The Sims Online Stratics Forums' started by Guest, Dec 11, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I want to discuss another thing that was said to me in our conversation. I just want to know what this statement meant exactly, and why it was made. And I think it's something everyone would like an explanation on.
     
  2. hmm...yeah explanation would be nice.
     
  3. probably because the current economy will be wiped right now

    or he just likes to build robots

    or like to be a robot
     
  4. MandiK

    MandiK Guest

    ...interesting.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Nah he mentioned players can sell simoleans, or you can buy them from EA safely. Still, bots should not become permissible. They will lower the value of simoleans and inflate the economy, and we will be right back where we were...slower though because of overwork penalty and crappy payouts, but then the object prices are lower too...
     
  6. Did you ask Lee to clarify, or is a contest? If I guess the answer closest to his meaning do I win a prize?

    OK... *putting on my registered Psychic Aid Pyramid Hat*

    I think he meant

    (1) he has no problem with bots, because that problem is being dealt with
    (2) AND/OR at this point in time the problem of botting in the game is not significant enough for EA and/or devs to be concerned.

    Let me know if I win, and what I win. [​IMG]
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Trolling much? [​IMG]

    Bots aren't really that big of a problem unless the situation is so bad it directly effects the economy. And after their crackdown it isn't, so I can see where he was coming from.

    Including TSO I've been in 3 games where botting was a problem, and after the initial problem was dealt with it wasn't such a problem anymore. Its problemness increases exponentially, so with less numbers is drastically becomes less of a problem.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Did you ask him to elaborate? Clarify? or are you trying to like start the scandal that rocked TSO? I saw you mention the "other stuff" he said...

    Shocker....


    Anyway. What Thunder said.

    EA isn't investing all of the money they've been investing into this game to allow something like bots to bring it down.

    I'm not all that worried. But its sorta cute that you are. [​IMG]
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Here is a good question for you. If you really wanted to know what it meant and everything else, why don't you ask Lee? After all, none of us are going to know what Lee was thinking when he said it. Asking us just means you are looking for an interpretation that you like, not the actual truth. Only the truth of what it means can you get from Lee.
     
  10. <blockquote><hr>

    *putting on my registered Psychic Aid Pyramid Hat*

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Reminds me of a dunce cap [​IMG]




    IMO when I think of a bot nowadays I think of the afk stores and their 5-10 sims all hiding for 15 hours a day magically never timing out. I don't know which types of bots Lee was referring to and your right Ronin only he can answer it.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Only the truth of what it means can you get from Lee.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    and the truth will set you Lee.


    nvm. that was lame.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I did ask...I replied, "Fine?". He didn't say anything else about it.
     
  13. Well I'm totally confused because I always thought it was Greg that was in luff with botters and not Lee. Maybe Lee just tolerates Greg's obsessions and doesn't really care about them one way or another.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm sorry, your response here makes no sense. So at this point, I will just wait and see if Lee responds in this thread or responds to me in personal pants kind of way.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Here is a good question for you. If you really wanted to know what it meant and everything else, why don't you ask Lee? After all, none of us are going to know what Lee was thinking when he said it. Asking us just means you are looking for an interpretation that you like, not the actual truth. Only the truth of what it means can you get from Lee.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thank you.


    What do you achieve by posting a quote, most likely taken out of context, in City Hall?

    Don't you think it's more logical to ask him to clarify, and then if still needed, post here.


    This should be ignored.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    *putting on my registered Psychic Aid Pyramid Hat*

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Reminds me of a dunce cap [​IMG]



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Au contraire. A dunce cap is a cone, whilst the Psychic Aid Pyramid Hat is, as the name suggests, a device that channels the ancient power of the pyramid. Scoff if you feel you must, but BEWARE. Muhahaha. [​IMG]
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I already stated that I DID ask for clarification. He said "I am fine with bots", and I said "Fine?". I was startled by such a statement. There was no answer as to what this meant.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I already stated that I DID ask for clarification. He said "I am fine with bots", and I said "Fine?". I was startled by such a statement. There was no answer as to what this meant.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Did he evil laugh after he said it?
     
  19. <blockquote><hr>

    I did ask...I replied, "Fine?". He didn't say anything else about it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If I were so concerned about a statement that I'd start a thread about it, I'd say a little more than "Fine?" to the person. Bots have been around for years, and so have the threads about them, but the only way to get your point across is to talk to the dev team, be specific, direct, and ask for elaborate statements if need be. Nobody on here will be able to contribute to your discussion with Lee and yourself.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Did he evil laugh after he said it?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah, it does make all the difference. It's kind of our way of conveying sarcasm since we don't have any other way on teh internets... [​IMG]

    Btw, what I said wasn't meant to be sarcastic, the wink was there to demonstrate my point.

    But even if there wasn't and he was serious, aren't you taking this a bit too far? So he has a different opinion, if he doesn't answer you in the other thread why would he answer you in a new one?
     
  21. OK, I'll be serious.

    I recall hearing a similar comment, weeks ago, when I was at the pub. I forget if it was Lee or Greg. The context of the comment at the time was that at this point in time botting is not a big concern BECAUSE there are triggers in the game that will alert them to botters.

    Do you know how many times the devs at the pub have been asked (and harangued) on the topic of botters? After the umpteenth time answering the same question I would bet Lee was just giving his shortest stock response. The pub is a frenetic environment with chat going this way and that, I doubt Lee heard your follow up question for clarification.

    IMO, if there are botters trying to make gains in TC3 then they are exactly where we want them to be so that the policing methods can be fine tuned. If you think any dev would say they are fine with bots because they like bots, or are in favor of bots, or just don't give a fig -- well, I think you are way out in left field in your thinking.

    Lee has made his email addy public. Drop him a line next time you are confuzzled.
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Last March, on the Blog, Greg asked if there was a way to harness the skill and creativity of bot builders to benefit the game. Link They got a very negative response...(See this response in the next blog post).

    I believe the problem arises from the different perspective on what "bots" can do. After all, 'bot' builders make a nice living creating useful macros for Second Life players. Macros, can be a good thing...or a bad thing, depending on how they are used, but the real point is that after the trauma that cheating-style bots/macro programs, have perpetuated on TSO players, we are not now and were not in March, willing to consider any positive outcome from bot/macro programs.

    Others have said and they are correct, only Lee can 'clarify' what he specifically meant when he said what he did to you in the Pub...if he feels it is important to do so....which he may not. [​IMG]

    But I learned from the blog posts, that 'bots' can mean something very different to developers, than they do to TSO players. [​IMG]
     
  23. Gilly, you raise a very good point... the dev teams view, participation and terminology in this game are completely different then those of us that have played this game over a long period of time.
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Rather than everyone playing "Monday morning quarterback" and wordsmithing the original post to death with comments like it should have been asked of the dev team and not here, take a minute to notice that 1) Lee's name is in the subject and 2) Lee reads and posts here regularly. He even posts here more often than some of those doing the questioning.

    By posting here, it gives others the opportunity to add their comments and concerns about botting in EALand. But wait, this is City Hall, so first we must gang up on the OP.

    I think a legitimate concern has been raised, one that many of us share. So rather than delving into the motivations for posing the question, let's <u>keep this thread on the topic</u> of botting, our definition of it, EA's definition of it, and how it could impact the game.
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I want to discuss another thing that was said to me in our conversation. <u>I just want to know what this statement meant exactly, and why it was made.</u> And I think it's something everyone would like an explanation on.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Milton, no offense, but the part above that I made stick out, isn't exactly saying "I want the truth of what Lee said." To me it seems more like, "I want to know what you(the community) think he meant." That just seems like he is trying to start something.

    As far as botting goes, we all know that it exists. And with them being able to track money throughout every transaction that happens, botting is very easily noticed. I believe that is why Lee said that. They KNOW who is botting. But those are just my thoughts, not Lee's thoughts. I can speculate all day on that.

    What this whole thread comes down too is, only a response coming from Lee will anyone actually know what Lee meant when he said it. So we can all speculate and wait.


    Edit: Grammar issues
     
  26. I wonder if you are the same person I ran into last night that just couldn't stop slamming MaxisLee at your house?

    If you are, then this entire thread is just a continued attempt to bash a guy who has up until now been our best advocate.

    First off, I've found that Lee is pretty much straight forward with his answers. He doesn't fudge around and just tell you what you want to hear.

    TPTB are totally aware of bots. Are they concerned about bots? Probably not because they are aware they are there and I have no doubt that the systems they are putting in place will probably make botting not worth it.

    First off, I can see simolean sellers slowly evolving into custom content merchants. Who'd want to own an operate a bunch of bots when you can make some nice custom content and make a lot more money still.

    It's being handled in ways we don't understand or need to worry about.

    I seriously think that the devs would go to all this work just to let botters/simoleans merchants mess it up. LOL
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No, I have never talked down about anyone in the game. I am not even trying to bash anyone here. I thought it would be interesting to know what the response would be to this comment that was made, and it's apparent meaning. By the way our conversation was in PM so there were misunderstandings of questions or answers (besides this one which was not clarified).

    I am "Al Caholic" and "Al Caholic Sr" in TC3
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I want to discuss another thing that was said to me in our conversation. <u>I just want to know what this statement meant exactly, and why it was made.</u> And I think it's something everyone would like an explanation on.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Milton, no offense, but the part above that I made stick out, isn't exactly saying "I want the truth of what Lee said." To me it seems more like, "I want to know what you(the community) think he meant." That just seems like he is trying to start something.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    No offense taken. I just hope you aren't offended that I disagree with you. I've known KG for quite some time and I seriously don't think he would try to start something there.
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No offense taken. [​IMG]

    It is just a very broad and open statement.



    Edit: forgot a part
     
  30. I'd be real curious as to what he meant in that statement. I think BOTS had a big part in the destrucion of TSO and personally think they should be banned. [​IMG]
     
  31. Roger Wilco

    Roger Wilco Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I'd be real curious as to what he meant in that statement. I think BOTS had a big part in the destrucion of TSO and personally think they should be banned. [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If by "botting" you mean running an unattended macro then that has always been against the ToS, a violation of which could potentially earn you a ban.

    Many of the people being called a "bot" weren't macro's at all. They were farmers (as in a human being there) or large heavy object afker's.

    Unless you're internet and computer ignorant (and real botters aren't) successfully banning them is a lot harder than most people here know.

    Compared to the money created by the exploits, botters were small potatoes. Much more visable, but nowhere near as much money was being created by them compared to the exploits.

    What people called "botters" got all the TSO hate, but it was the exploiters that really destroyed the value of the simolean.
     
  32. There's nothing that can be done about bots, because botters are not hacking into game files, which would be server-detectable - they're using 3rd party pc-specific macro programs which simulate keystrokes and are next to impossible to detect outside looking in electronically....

    I prefer the old-fashioned community way. If you suspect a property is using bots - an obvious sign is 5+ on a property and are all afk - then simply don't go there. Ban them, and encourage your friends to boycott them. That way they'll get no business, and will eventually die of loneliness and boredom lol...
     
  33. <blockquote><hr>

    There's nothing that can be done about bots, because botters are not hacking into game files, which would be server-detectable - they're using 3rd party pc-specific macro programs which simulate keystrokes and are next to impossible to detect outside looking in electronically....

    I prefer the old-fashioned community way. If you suspect a property is using bots - an obvious sign is 5+ on a property and are all afk - then simply don't go there. Ban them, and encourage your friends to boycott them. That way they'll get no business, and will eventually die of loneliness and boredom lol...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I must have misunderstood your post, because I was under the impression that botters do everything they can to keep other players at bay? Boycotting them is not necessary because they usually bot behind locked doors?

    My understanding is that botters run the programs to earn simoleans to sell to other players. With the "new" economy it has been touted that botters will not have incentive to bot, and/or their accumulation of simoleans will set sound alarms to start lock down and destruction sequences, or something like that.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    My understanding is that botters run the programs to earn simoleans to sell to other players. With the "new" economy it has been touted that botters will not have incentive to bot, and/or their accumulation of simoleans will set sound alarms to start lock down and destruction sequences, or something like that.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    The incentive is to get the simoleons. However possible.
    In TSO they sold to players.
    In EALand they will sell to players AND EA.

    Same dance - different tempo.
     
  35. <blockquote><hr>


    The incentive is to get the simoleons. However possible.
    In TSO they sold to players.
    In EALand they will sell to players AND EA.

    Same dance - different tempo.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Dance? I want the lock down and destruction sequence, you know -- red alert lights flashing ("botter! botter!") and this mushroom cloud thing rising over the map leaving a crater, but no collateral damages...

    I thought Sarah was working on that???? Game triggers, simolean watching, and the RED BUTTON...
     
  36. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm gonna say the reason is that since EA will now buy and sell simoleans, there will be no market for the botters, other than to just sell simoleans to EA and make more money than they are paying for the game. Players will not want to buy from them when they can get a secure instant transaction from EA for the same price. The only extra simoleans created by botters that will have any effect would be the ones purchased from EA by actual players.
     
  37. <blockquote><hr>

    I'm gonna say the reason is that since EA will now buy and sell simoleans, there will be no market for the botters, other than to just sell simoleans to EA and make more money than they are paying for the game. Players will not want to buy from them when they can get a secure instant transaction from EA for the same price. The only extra simoleans created by botters that will have any effect would be the ones purchased from EA by actual players.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Another poster in another thread pointed out that botters would not necessarily care about undercutting EA simolean prices as anything they make would be pure profit. If they sell too much to EA it will send up a red flag, or should, which was the reason given as to why botters and exploiters will continue to sell simoleans. Time will tell, I guess.
     
  38. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree Dali, time will tell.
    Times change...
     
  39. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree with Jackiee... Who agrees with Dali... so i agree with Dali...
     
  40. Guest

    Guest Guest

    NM - misunderstood.
     
  41. gusdegloom

    gusdegloom Guest

    The popular skill and money lots are really struggling. It’s costing them a fortune to feed sims. Roomies don’t want to host because the food money comes out of their pocket and they just don’t have enough money. Sims are coming in with 0 money and have no choice but to ask for food. Some popular skill and money places are forced to close when their food money runs out. Needs need to be LOWERED. Not abandoned, just lowered. Sims eat a LOT [​IMG]
    I’m seeing money delivery sims showing up at popular lots and you know what that means. Possibly an exploit .. at any rate popular lots are buying money.
    I tried to convey the above at the Pub, but no one seemed to listen.
     
  42. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have to disagree with you. Sims that came in with 0 simoleans do not need to beg for food. Doing 1 money object is enough to buy a 5 simoleans snack out of a vending machine. Or one day at a sim job is enough to buy plenty of food. This is just my opinion.
     
  43. gusdegloom

    gusdegloom Guest

    to get skills or money a sim has to visit a skill or money lot. That means they have to eat THERE. Multiply one sim having to eat times how many new sims with 0 money.
     
  44. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    to get skills or money a sim has to visit a skill or money lot. That means they have to eat THERE. Multiply one sim having to eat times how many new sims with 0 money.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    But you don't have to go to a money lot to make money. Maybe if the sims working or going to these money lots gave a portion of their earnings to the home owner(IMO that would be appropriate) this problem wouldn't be such a big deal. I know as a home owner, tip jars work very well. Why not have a sign by the tip jar that says "Please tip, without this money, I can't feed you all."

    Oh, to get back to what I was saying, you can go to a sim job for money, then find a service lot that is a restaurant of the sorts(I have seen them, they do exist) to eat at.

    As far as bots, tracking the simoleans through every transaction helps with that problem greatly.
     
  45. <blockquote><hr>

    The popular skill and money lots are really struggling. It’s costing them a fortune to feed sims. Roomies don’t want to host because the food money comes out of their pocket and they just don’t have enough money. Sims are coming in with 0 money and have no choice but to ask for food. Some popular skill and money places are forced to close when their food money runs out. Needs need to be LOWERED. Not abandoned, just lowered. Sims eat a LOT [​IMG]
    I’m seeing money delivery sims showing up at popular lots and you know what that means. Possibly an exploit .. at any rate popular lots are buying money.
    I tried to convey the above at the Pub, but no one seemed to listen.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If it comes down to a roomie having to close the house because they can't afford to feed guests, I'd suggest putting out a buffet. I know that these days everyone thinks that HC is required, but this is a fairly new expectation in the game and maybe we need to back up a bit. A sign, as Ronin suggested, is a good idea, as would be a polite announcement from the roomie saying that tips are needed or HC requests cannot be accommodated.

    We have all gotten very spoiled and entitled. People who run busy houses have made us think HC and serenades are a right, not the mark of exceptional hospitality that they are.

    Ronin is also correct -- it doesn't take that much effort to make enough cash to feed a sim. Even with no skills, spending fifteen minutes at a money house will make you enough to buy a few meals. I know, as my sims have done this.
     
  46. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    The popular skill and money lots are really struggling. It’s costing them a fortune to feed sims. Roomies don’t want to host because the food money comes out of their pocket and they just don’t have enough money. Sims are coming in with 0 money and have no choice but to ask for food. Some popular skill and money places are forced to close when their food money runs out. Needs need to be LOWERED. Not abandoned, just lowered. Sims eat a LOT [​IMG]
    I’m seeing money delivery sims showing up at popular lots and you know what that means. Possibly an exploit .. at any rate popular lots are buying money.
    I tried to convey the above at the Pub, but no one seemed to listen.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If it comes down to a roomie having to close the house because they can't afford to feed guests, I'd suggest putting out a buffet. I know that these days everyone thinks that HC is required, but this is a fairly new expectation in the game and maybe we need to back up a bit. A sign, as Ronin suggested, is a good idea, as would be a polite announcement from the roomie saying that tips are needed or HC requests cannot be accommodated.

    We have all gotten very spoiled and entitled. People who run busy houses have made us think HC and serenades are a right, not the mark of exceptional hospitality that they are.

    Ronin is also correct -- it doesn't take that much effort to make enough cash to feed a sim. Even with no skills, spending fifteen minutes at a money house will make you enough to buy a few meals. I know, as my sims have done this.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    The game has changed and so have needs - A pay-as-you-go buffet seems to me like a practical way to go - with the occassional HC thrown in as a special treat. Maybe pay toilets and beds too. (ducks)
     
  47. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Pay as you go buffet might be ok IF they ever lower the cost of stocking them. Buffets, grills, punch bowls, pet feeders, and maybe more, have not been lowered at all yet. Remember now, sims are starting with a whopping $0 to their name and to go gain some skills it takes two or three plates of buffet to fill a sim tummy. Where do they get that $10 per plate to buy their first meals with with no skills? They also can't afford to tip at first. And from my experience with helping host a skill lot in TC3, most of those who could, still don't bother to tip.

    Not sure what this has to do with bots but eh. I guess the bots will allow the "top" houses to continue to feed their guests? Another case of "buy your way to the top" which I really don't understand.
     
  48. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Pay as you go buffet might be ok IF they ever lower the cost of stocking them. Buffets, grills, punch bowls, pet feeders, and maybe more, have not been lowered at all yet. Remember now, sims are starting with a whopping $0 to their name and to go gain some skills it takes two or three plates of buffet to fill a sim tummy. Where do they get that $10 per plate to buy their first meals with with no skills? They also can't afford to tip at first. And from my experience with helping host a skill lot in TC3, most of those who could, still don't bother to tip.

    Not sure what this has to do with bots but eh. I guess the bots will allow the "top" houses to continue to feed their guests? Another case of "buy your way to the top" which I really don't understand.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I bleve there was talk of a Maxis "soup kitchen" for broke and new sims. [​IMG]
     
  49. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Pay as you go buffet might be ok IF they ever lower the cost of stocking them. Buffets, grills, punch bowls, pet feeders, and maybe more, have not been lowered at all yet.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You mean this never happened?
     
  50. gusdegloom

    gusdegloom Guest

    open the soup kitchen and they will come [​IMG]

    just get out of the way when you open the door! LOL

    all that is needed is to lower (a wee little bit.. the need to eat every 10 min [​IMG]

    how would noobs know about all this? they don't... they have 0 money and are feeling their way around. Back in 2002 we started with 10k.. more than enough to pay for some meals until we know what the heck we were doing.
    Imagine going back to 2002 and starting with 0
    Frankly I don't care about Facebook or those kind of 'improvements'.. but I do see places closing due to lack of money to buy food for 30+ starving sims.
    And sims with 0 can't tip.
    There's no longer any incentive to be a roomie, so owners are latching on to sims with 0 money and leaving them to run a house of 30+
    It ain't working!