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Mesanna : About the reviewing of the 120 fishing Powerscrolls....

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Dear Mesanna,

    I would like to make a plea, since you guys are reviewing 120 fishing powerscroll and, I imagine, the status that Legendary fisherman brings.

    My plea is NOT TO make obtaining 120 fishing Powerscrolls too easy.

    Keep getting them hard, please. Not impossible, but quite hard.

    Why ?

    Because in this game skills and the power that comes from them have become over time minimized, People swap them as they were a t-shirt.

    I think Ultima Online has lost the feel of working to surge to "Legendary" status in a skill and perhaps, it could be a good idea if, with fishing, at least for one skill in the game the good feeling of being a "Legendary" fisherman will remain.

    With SOTs and Alacrity scrolls training skills is never a problem so, the only one way to keep at least for fishing, the "Legendary" status a valuable status, is keeping the 120 powerscrolls quite hard to get.

    This said, I must add that if you agree in giving to UO at least one skill, fishing, where being "Legendary" would again mean something to players, with the harshness ot making getting a 120 fishing powerscroll you must couple comparable bonuses and advantages coming to a "Legendary" fisherman to have worked hard to become such.

    That is, I am pleading you to consider, leave 120 fishing powerscrolls hard to get but make the benefits for those few who will stick with getting there, to "Legendary" fisherman, high enough to compensate for all the effort, time and dedication that went into it.

    Being a Legendary fisherman must be a valuable status quo but it should also bring valuable and tangible benefits that go beyond being able to catch a few rare fishes more often. Make it allow to pull up rare items which 119.9 won't allow, make it so that white pearl will spawn more often, Ancient SoSs will have a higher chance to spawn etc. etc.

    I think that fishing is a perfect candidate skill for bringing back to Ultima Online the charisma and worthiness of being "Legendary" in a skill because it is not a combat skill and, therefore, that only a few players have it will not unbalance the game or the PvP.

    If you agree with bringing back to UO meaningfullness in being Legendary in a skill I think you have a chance now, today, with Fishing, please do consider it.

    Thank you.
     
  2. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    I agree that being Legendary in anything should have some benefit. What benefit and how much benefit is the question. My beef on this would be, whatever the parameters set down for legendary, think them thru and get them right the first time. Don't let us get to 120, and then change the gameplan.

    IMO, the scrolls are ridiculous atm, and no, I didn't expect em to be falling from the sky like rain, but I have a houseful of baits and no scrolls at all. It has turned into a farmfest which quickly became old.
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    That is why I keep saying that whenever there is a change in design and a new introduction, the initial drop rate must be RARE and then, if needed, it is adjusted according to the need.

    It is much better (and more fair, IMHO) to fine tune from hard to less hard than do the other way around and have the early birds get things easy to then change it and make it much harder for the other players.

    As long as a new addition starts as hard, it is always possible to fine tune it later on without having also to deal with a mess created by the new items spawning too frequently.

    This said, I think the benefits should be commensurable to the difficulty to reach the status.

    Personally, as I said, not being fishing a combat skill I see it as a perfect candidate to bring some value in Ultima Online for being "Legendary" in a skill. To get this, though, it is necessary to keep leaving 120 fishing powerscrolls be hard to spawn.
    Not impossible, but definately hard.

    And the benefits for those few who were determined enough to swim against the current and make it to reach that "Legendary" fisherman status should be meaningfull enough not to feel fooled for having put so much effort, dedication and time into the task.
     
  4. jack flash uk

    jack flash uk Crazed Zealot
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    in case you did not know you can double click a bait and target another bait of the same time to add them together:)
     
  5. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    oh I know about the combining...just making a point ;)
     
  6. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
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    your legendary leet status will only last so long Popps... eventually we all will be 120 fishermen. just like with the rest of UO it is ultimately a click x time formula. Personally, i feel the oposite should happen. make it less about the clicking and more about the usefulness of a skill. If the baits are truly useful, I would have to make a decision every time i start the computer to play: am i going to spend time to get some baits, or will I buy them from you? If I like fishing better than fighting, my answer should not be: i will fight because i would have to click for 6 years to get the useful stuff...

    why were you arguing in another post that your fishing rewards weren't high enough though? did you just get your first 110 scroll that you changed your tune?
     
  7. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, not necessarily, players like different things in games, some like fighting, some crafting, some fishing, come gardening and so forth.

    If doing something is not necessarily easy, then it will be limited to those players who actually enjoy doing it thus, maintaining that "roleplaying" aspect of multiplayer games.

    On the contrary, if it is easy to attain any and all skills, then all players will do everything (given time, of course...), they will become self sufficient, especially with soulstones around, and the roleplaying aspect of the game will be done with with most players capable of catering their own needs.


    As said, to each his or her own..... some like to play one way, some in another.
    If I do not like gardening, I will buy my seeds from others. So, if others will not like or enjoy fishing and find it boring, they will buy whatever fishing brings from those who are willing to.

    I think I must take some classes of writing comprehension because apparently I have difficulties in expressing myself.

    I never ment making it easy, my complaint was that I turned in one of the most difficult orders for my level, a 60 points order with 6 different types of fish and yet I received a bait and not the reward comparable to that to_of_my_status large order.

    I completely am in favour of having powerscrolls not easy to get, but once a player is given the right order to get a powerscroll (which should be handed out scarcely by fishmongers, IMHO...), then once the order is complete (which can take time for large and complex orders...), then the reward should be comparable with the difficulty and time consuming of the order.

    Sort of the same line of thinking with 120 Legendary fishing.

    I am all in favour of making it hard and difficult to reach but once a player made it there, then with it should come prestige, wealth and glory.

    That is, all the goodies !!!

    As long as the effort is rightfully rewarded, I am all in favour of Legendary Fisherman to be limited and really an accomplishment to brag for........

    And for the record, I do not have a 110 PS....
     
  8. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    completely agree. i hate the winers that get things change to too easy for them.
    I also think the 120 fishing should have a few rare benefits besides making pies that boost stats for 5 mins. like the very hard to get sea horse and anchor from leviathons. lets make legendary fishing something special and only for few and far inbetween.

    and I am not so sure I like the idea of a 120 ps being obtained easier for a legendary fisherman. if he already has his then personally I dont like the idea that he can get them easier to sell to others.

    perhaps there is a stipulation that you cant eat the 120 scroll unless you have xx fishing quest loyalty points. where xx = min 100 quests

    Lorddog
     
  9. popps

    popps Always Present
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    This finds me in agreement as becoming a "Legendary" fisherman should be a personal achievement and not easily purchaseable from someone else who got the scroll....

    But it should work not only for 120 PS, but also for 115s (if they even exist) since binding 115s to make a 120 is not that hard. 110s could be different since too many would be needed to make a 120 PS.

    That could be an idea though, the developers should also make sure that in no way fishing can be scripted.

    I would hate the idea that some players could become "Legendary" through overnight scripting while other players had to work very hard to make it to that exceptional status.
     
  10. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I hate to tell you all this..... but making them ridiculously hard to get on a skill that is horrendously difficult to gain in and lets face it not the most exciting in game... isn't the answer.

    Really the question is who is really doing the fishing here anyway?

    Those of us who enjoy fishing. Simple as that. Those of us that will still BE fishing LONG after the novelty wears off for all the others.

    We are the ones who WILL get the scrolls... Why because we will continue to do the tedious quests..... why because we like them. Simple.
     
  11. Nimuaq

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    If I understand the post correctly, you dont suggest to make gaining fishing above 100 to be difficult, you just want the powerscrolls to be rare. This way, in your opinion, when players see a legendary fisher, they will understand that a great effort is behind that title.

    There is just one thing: anyone with enough gold on their bank can purchase a 120 (or ten 115). Let us say while a player is trying to obtain a rare fishing powerscroll by doing the fish monger quests, another player is farming gold. I'm sure that by the time the first player gets the powerscroll, the other one will gather enough gold to buy this very powerscroll from the first player.

    I also agree with MalagAste. If the powerscrolls are set to be too rare, I dont think many players will even try to obtain one. The new moonstone jewellery pieces from the gypsy camps are rare. When they were first introduced with the Publish 65, many players were searching for them. Today, with 1 in 25,000 chance, I dont think anyone really cares.
     
  12. Thav12

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    you guys fail to see that it has nothing to do with skill, only with time. Just because it is called a skill doesn't imply it takes one...

    eventually everyone will reach 120.

    you just are pleading for a reward for getting there before others. Slowing the reward down, so that those people that click more and longer and stick with just fishing get to be legendary fishing clickers. Why? not because you can then flaunt your title, which would be a noble reason, no, because you can rake in the riches. Ha!

    You have no trouble with comprehensible writing, Popps, I get it just fine. You have trouble hiding your motives for the writing you do. Unhappy about getting 60 baits? Wanted something "more appropriate" for the level of the order you filled? I get it. I even wanted to write in that thread that I agree with you. However, because we agree on there being some kind of relationship between number of clicks and reward, i also believe that we both want there to be some kind of relationship between number of clicks and skill gain. If you now say that you don't, i am at a loss here...

    again, number of clicks (in this game) = advancing a goal. It takes no skill to click the mouse button. If you want to make it rare to reach any goal, you limit the number of skill scrolls, artificially cap the maximum skill gain that way, and detach the aquisition of such power scrolls required to gain further skill points from any effort you can put into this game. Make it a complete lottery that you can buy tickets for or something stupid like that. You don't want that though... I certainly don't want that. I also do not like the fact that number of clicks required to reach a goal is artificially increased so only a few have the time to get to said goal. THat just makes me want to set up a comprehensive macro to do the clicking for me, while I am at work making real money....
     
  13. popps

    popps Always Present
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    This was addressed in posts #8 and #9 where it was suggested a requirement to have X number of fishmonger orders completed, done and delivered (obviously a rather high number of them to hold the issue of "Legendary" fisherman being a worthy status), before one could "eat" a 120 fishing PowerScroll.

    So, to address your concern, the issue could be coded so that :

    a. 115 and 120 fishing Powerscrolls cannot be traded to others;

    OR

    b. 115 and 120 fishing Powerscrolls can be traded to others but they cannot be applied before one has a loyalty (number of completed and delivered fishmonger orders) high enough to be able to "surge" to that higher status.

    problem addressed and sloved.......


    Those who like fishing will care and work to reach that "Legendary" fisherman status. Those who do not feel like, won't.

    In a roleplaying, multiplayer game where, supposedly, players can have diverse and different playing roles I see nothing wrong in this.

    And, conclusively, I think that the fishing skill, not being a combat skill, is a perfect candidate to start bringing back value and prestige to skills in Ultima Online.
     
  14. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Not necessarily "IF" the task is not easy and one that requires work, dedication and effort.

    This is not a combat skill, it is NOT necessary that everyone has it to balance out combat.

    If we do not leave some specialty and particular status to at least those skills that are not required for combat then I do not know which skills can be made worthy of that title "Legendary".......



    The point is not whether it needs too few, average or too many clicks.

    Rather than seeing it as "clicks", I see it as dedication, effort, being persistent towards one's own set goal.

    Not all players might want to keep it at it until they get there to be "Legendary" fisherman. Some might give up after a while.

    My point is that if the journey is not easy, but reasonably hard to endeavour, only a few, really motivated players about fishing will indeed make it there to be a "Legendary" fisherman.

    There you go, finally a skill means again something in this game to reach the status of "legendary".

    Of course, this implies addressing also the issue of not allowing to buy/sell 115 and 120 fishing powerscrolls OR, as an alternative, make it so that even if one buys them they will not be able to apply them unless they have completed a sufficiently high number of fishmonger orders. Of course, the higher it will be set, the less people will actually want to make it to Legendary fisherman.

    Again, this will bring worthiness to the title and what comes with it to those players who actually were persistent in their work, dedication and efforts.


    I did say that the Developers need to also address the scripting issue to avoid that alongside of players who worked really hard to get to Legendary fisherman, there will be scripters who did it easy and while not even being at the computer.

    The issue of scripting needs to be addressed in this game, once and for all and for good.
     
  15. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    With popps solution posted on the 13th post about purchasing the powerscrolls, I honestly think the proposed system will work fine and is quite solid. Yet I still think making them too rare will make these quests less popular. This is the only concern I have.
     
  16. And what does 120 give you.
    Nothing.

    Wait a waste of a debate.
     
  17. Babble

    Babble Guest

    More in jest than seriousness:
    Well if people want to work for skills then we could just have skills deteriorate when not used.
    So you always have to work for the title :p
     
  18. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
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    Getting 120 Fishing Power Scrolls should be no more difficult than any other scroll.

    /thread.
     
  19. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    ya but what good would this do now? the other 4 dozen or so skill scrolls are flushed through the market.

    what would this do? nothing. its just one skill. now, if they all were made hard to begin with it would make a difference.
     
  20. popps

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    This was addressed in post #1. That is, my plea is to ask that the Developers leave "Legendary" fishing status be hard to gain and, along with it, make attaining such legendary status through dedication, effort, work, worthwhile to have.........

    Not at all if the two things are both addressed. If one goes without the other then yes, working hard to become Legendary fisherman would be pointless but instead, if having it will be worthwhile even when hard and difficult well, then I do not think it was a waste of a debate.

    I need to stress once again, that preventing scripting to obtain Legendary fisherman status is absolutely important to avoid having players who had to work extremely hard to make it to there and other players who had it easy because they scripted it for the most part.
     
  21. ikaikaman

    ikaikaman Guest

    DISAGREE,because rewards fot the quest are worthless.
    White pearls are getable as rewards for quests Axem at Library in Ter Mur,moreover too easy than fishing direct.Also Ancients SoSs,worthless too,these Arties are worse than Imbuing equipments.
    Now,fishing skill is not ATTRACTIVE.
     
  22. popps

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    But the Developers "can" make it more attractive by adding some exclusive things to 120, Legendary fishing, cannot they ?
     
  23. Varingian

    Varingian Seasoned Veteran
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    I have to agree with Thav. This isn't about "skill" its simply about how much time you have available to "click". Apparently the only people who are to be Legendary fisherman are the retired and the unemployeed. :bored: Come to think of it ...thats usually who I see fishing in RL....

    I'm not one to complain but I've been questing as much as I can for weeks now and really have nothing to show for it aside from overstuffed cans of bait, lava gear, and a 'nice' set of books. And oh yeah, Enough shoes to start my own footlocker franchise.
     
  24. Shelleybean

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    I doubt the devs are going to revisit what benefits legendary fishing will bring. They have already determined what the benefits are:
    In light of this, I see no reason that fishing powerscrolls should be more difficult to acquire than any other skill. And skill gain does not need to be made harder than it already is now.
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
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    In light of "that"........

    "But, if things change and the Developers decide to make the fishing skill one in the game where being "Legendary" again will mean something, then they "could" consider bettering the benefits of the "Legendary" fishing status to match the difficulty in reaching such status......

    That's what I address in my Original Post at the starting of the thread.
     
  26. Mr. Smither1

    Mr. Smither1 Seasoned Veteran
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    So you want the system to remain like it is now that it you are FORCED to bind 105s to get a 110 scroll and that it would take like 960 105 fishing scrolls to reach 120?
     
  27. popps

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    We have no idea whether the current system only allows players to reach 120 through binding 960 1-5s scrolls.....

    I think that the Developers are reviewing the system to make sure that 120 fishing powerscrolls will spawn under certain conditions.......

    All I am saying, is that when reviewing the modalities that players can have access to 120 fishing powerscrolls (and I add 115s as well...) that the Developers please do not make this easy to be obtained. Neither impossible (and I consider the binding of 960 15s as impossible....).

    And, couple this difficulty in getting a 120 fishing powerscroll with certain, tangible and visible benefits that the hard work required to reach "Legendary" fisherman status should motivate and make worthwhile.

    Bottom line is, make 120 hard to get, not impossible, but therefore make being a "Legendary" fisherman worth the effort because the bonuses that the status will bring will match the efforts and make it worthwhile.

    And, either not make 115s and 120s not tradeable to other players or, make it so that even if one buys them, a player cannot apply them unless they have completed a high requirement of fishmonger quests (this to avoid players being able to become "Legendary" by buying the PS, simply, avoiding all of the related work...).

    Lastly, make sure that the hard work necessary to reach "Legendary" fisherman status cannot be scripted to avoid having some players who worked hard to get there and other players who did it easy, effortlessly.

    That's all I am saying.
     
  28. ikaikaman

    ikaikaman Guest

    To begin with,Devs have not grasp of our standards of value.
    For example,Stygian Abyss,at first, all boss drop arties are bulky rubbish.added some attractive arties,but difficult to say excellent.

    High Seas,Devs show no sign of regret...
    Osiredon the scalis enforcer drops GOOD COLOR arties but worthless.
    Corguls too,compare handbook with invasion spellbook.clearly the latter is sperior,so has spell damege increase 30(upper limit)!!!!

    SOSs too,Kelp Legging inferior to Spell Woven Britches without who particular about a human.Armor of Valkyrie is too feeble to use instead of Rune Beetle Carapace.


    Devs could change fishing more attractive........I can not believe....
     
  29. Umfufu

    Umfufu Journeyman
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    I do not understand why you wish to make it so hard ...
    I can hardly imagine what the devs can do to make it worth THAT effort.

    As I see it, after the ease you can get a 120 imbue scroll, a skill of which I think is by far more useful then fishing, why would you want a skill that cannot deliver to be so hard to get.

    Mind you I don't mind putting some effort in ... but I do not believe anymore they can cook up something that would make it worthwhile in general.

    I mean look at the MiBs, the drops are so frequent, there is nothing special about these items, you will soon find them on the floors at banks, because people will not be able to sell them if thier life depended on it, the other items will just turn into relics.

    Who wants a chest drawer that looks exactly like the rubble we got and doesn't even act like a secure, nor is dyable ?

    The Fish Pies ? They don't stack ... the ingredients don't stack ... making them far less desireble to buy/sell.

    The trophies of rare fish ... who wants one with my name on it ?
    Maybe it would be nice to get a trophy pen to delete name and date, so it a nice decco, but no one can pass the catch off as thier own ?

    I mean honest, for personal saticfaction yes I can see the desire for the 120, but for the rare fish ... there are so much you wish to have ...

    They REALLY have to come up with some GOOD ideas, the make the effort worth the reward, for player in general, not just fish freaks like me.
    Maybe like with lumbering, mining, gardning, treasure hunting they can put in a chance to fish a imbue mat, or a rare chance of it when cutting up fish ?
    Right they did that already, I have so many scales now ... more then I can sell.
    As is stands now I am very sceptical about this.

    Note:
    I enjoy fishing, will keep on fishing, will go for the 120 in any case cause I wants it ... :D
     
  30. HD2300

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    I can guarantee you 100% that no Dev or QA Tester has 120ed Fishing in game without using shortcuts... such as set fishing 1199, drop saltpeter 1000, drop canonballs 100... and that is the problem... with fishing PS, saltpeter and pirate quests.
     
  31. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    First there's griping about how hard it is to get a fishing scroll, then there's griping to make sure it's not too easy. All I have to say is "wow"...
     
  32. Gunga_Din

    Gunga_Din Guest

    lol, what a joke. If you like grinding so much, go play WOW. First off, they never needed any freaking ps for fishing. Just new fish in different areas and an update to MIB's. Thats all they had to do, thats all they should have done.

    There are five people left doing the quests now and nobody cares about Legendary Fisherman. You think people are gonna run up to you and say "omg your a legendary fisherman, can I have your autograph !!" ?

    Give it a rest. My complaint is i have zero time to waste on this grind and don't have access to all the fish. You know why i want access? To decor my house and hold competitions to see you can get the largest of each type. Thats all most care about, well the true fisherman. Not making profit.

    The goal should be about getting fish in all the different areas, some harder to reach or dangerous spots (like Felucca) and then keep track of all the record fish for each type. Thats what we did when there was just the BIG fish. Thats what most of us enjoyed, not a stupid grind.

    Some of the best fisherman arent even doing the quests, just doing MIB's and net toss events. I can't wait till you waste all your time for these scrolls and in a month i'll buy a 120 and your nostalgia will be gone before it began. So, i'll just wait for 120 PS to be on vendors and do better things with my time.

    Obviously this guy wants to be the only Legendary Fisherman in UO so he can feel important. Get a grip man.
     
  33. Cami069

    Cami069 Guest

    Popps,

    I disagree on making the 120 powerscrolls more difficult to get. The lobster grind has gotten old for those of us who don't script or macro on the docks and rowboats for hours on end.
    Please forgive me but I'm going to be quite blunt. You want it to be so difficult that most people will give up and you want extra riches for your "achievement". But this booster wasn't just for YOUR enjoyment or YOUR riches ... it certainly wasn't just so YOU can feel special.
    Everyone I know wants some true accounting for the point system used with the fishmongers rather than the meaningless corporate "answer" we received on Friday. Everyone I know wants to have FUN earning their 120 fishing powerscroll. Everyone I know is getting frustrated at weeks of endless fishing quests with the awful lobster grind as the main component for the quests and no fishing powerscrolls in sight.
    I'd like to see the amount of plain lobsters and crabs cut in half. More named lobsters/crabs please since we need an abundance of them. And I'd like to see fishing powerscrolls become available for anyone who PAID for the booster and does the quests, not just for a few people who think they're elite.
     
  34. popps

    popps Always Present
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    It could be made worthwhile the effort it would take to surge to "Legendary" fisherman status, it only takes wanting it and doing it.....

    The point is precisely this, since fishing is not a "vital" skill for game play, neither it is a combat skill nor a skill as important as imbuing, it is one of the best candidate skills to try bring back to Ultima Online some meaningfullness to being "Legendary" in a skill......

    That only few will bother making it to Legendary fisherman, it won't unbalance nothing since fishing, as you correctly point out, is not as important or usefull as imbuing, for example.

    That is, if we do not make skills like fishing hard to become "Legendary" so as to bring back some meaningfullness to the prestigious status, I do not see for which skills we can do it.....

    Coding is wonderfull, many things can be done with it. They can code so that at 120 legendary one can pull up rare items which at 119.9 won't spawn, they can increase the drop rate for the special chests which are coming with Ancient SoSs, they can increase the spawn of Ancient SoSs from 25% to, say, 50%, they can do whatever they want to make it worthwhile the increased effort and work required to surge to Legendary fisherman status........


    The issues you point out are valid and certainly I hope that the Developers will indeed address them in the correct way.

    I think we need to leave the Developers to think and work on their revision. Definatly we can voice out our points of view which I hope they are noting and then they will have their brain storming sessions, internal debates on which direction to take and then will finalize their changes with coding.

    At this point we can only hope that they will make their choices for the best sake of Ultima Online and wait and see what they will come up with this revision.

    Good to hear that......
     
  35. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Perhaps I was not able to express myself good enough.

    My point is not specifically in regards to the fishing skill, but mostly in making the "Legendary" status for a skill be worthwhile its salt again.

    I "happen" to see fishing a skill that is best suitable candidate for the job since it is not a vital skill to game play as you and others have correctly pointed out.

    Therefore, that only a few players will actually want to stick to making it to Legendary fisherman it will not mess up anything with the game balance.

    If we do not bring back value and worthiness in being "Legendary" to a skill like fishing than I do not know with what skill we could do it in UO. Perhaps Forensic Evaluation ?

    So, fishing only is to me a tool to start bringing importance back again to being of Legendary status in the game about something....

    Of course, with that there must also be sound and tangible bonuses included that a player who actually did the effort, put in the dedication and the time to surge to Legendary fisherman status will be able to enjoy.

    There is nothing else that can be upsetting and annoying that putting a lot of effort into something only to remain empty handed.....

    That, and of course make it that 115s and 120s cannot be traded to other accounts OR, as an alternative, be tradeable but not applicable unless that character has completed an high enough number of fishmonger quests.

    And, lastly, that the work needed to surge to Legendary fisherman, fishmongers' quests included, is definatly not scriptable to avoid having some players who worked hard for it and some who got it easy as a walk in the park......
     
  36. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The way I see it, is that each add-on, booster pack and addition to the game in general can take months of planning, thinking, designing and hard work from the developers.

    If things are made easy for players then the interest in players fades away quickly and so much work and effort might become history only after a few weeks from release.

    That is, a team of people working for months on an addition only to have people loose their interest in a few weeks on the novelty content because they did everything already, since it was easy to do.

    I think it as necessary that something is kept as hard, so as to have at least "some" content have its effect ast longer.

    Hard does not mean impossible, mind you, it means hard as opposed to easy........

    Sure, there will be players who will not be interested but certainly, there will also be players who will be interested.

    I say it again, if we ever want to bring back some meaningfullness back to being "Legendary" in a skill, I think fishing is one of the best candidate skills out there to be used for it.

    It is not a vital skill to game play, but nonetheless can be a good skill to play.

    Personally, I cannot see at this time another skill in Ultima Online that could be as worthy as fishing to be used to bring back some meaning to being a "Legendary" player in a given skill.

    That's at least how I personally see it.
     
  37. B_Barracuda

    B_Barracuda Guest

    i agree with your basic opinion, but it is a bit unrealistic. while it is possible to make a new skill difficult to learn, you're forgetting about those people who already have gone legendary the easy way. making a skill more difficult afterwards would be a great disadvantage to players who are new. it would be impossible for them to keep up with the rest of the player base.

    the problem is, as always, that things have been screwed up a long time ago and now it may be impossible to turn back the wheel of time. unless you wipe the shards and force all to start new.
     
  38. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, to this regards fishing is a brand new skill since noone as of yet has become a Legendary fisherman.

    And, fishing is not a vital skill for game play.

    So, I do not see why the "experiment" could not be done with fishing.......

    By the way, as in regards the bonuses that 120 Legendary fisherman would bring, I do not favour any reduction in fishing up regular crabs/lobsters at all.

    Why ?

    Simply because this could be exploited by non-yet legendary fishermen.

    In order to get their fishmongers' quests done faster and more easily, they could just get a Legendary fisherman to do the crabs/lobsters fishing for them (less regular crabs/lobsters mean more named ones needed for the quests...) and then simply hand them out or sell to them the named crabs/lobsters needed for the quests.

    No thanks, let's try make at least 1 skill in the game where becoming "Legendary" means something again and requires hard work and dedication and there are no easy and fast work arounds.

    I hear that apparently scripting of crabs and lobsters fishing is not possible or, at least, it is not easy to do. A reason more to keep crabs and lobsters fishing an important factor of fishmongers' quests, IMHO.
     
  39. Umfufu

    Umfufu Journeyman
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    Now you are really starting to loose me ...

    The regualr Crabs/Lobsters have no purpose whatsoever ingame ... none ... nada ...

    You have:
    Shore Fishing .. EVERY FISH has a use
    Deep Sea Fishing ... EVERY FISH has a use
    Dungeon Fishing ... EVERY FISH has a use
    Rare Fish ... sofar I can see they are OR useful as Pies OR can turned into a Trophy

    Crabs/Lobsters ... have 4 types that are completely useless

    I think you are really totally utterly missing out on what is happening as you type all this.
    There are many people already that have made a big business out of this, not only with the crabs/lobsters.
    I fail to see how you would think think elimitating 4 useless types would change this effect much. Where there is a business to be made people will do it.
    Do not know how on earth you do not realize this yet.

    For me it is too late for your experimenting, all other legendaries are out there, you cannot change one thing about it.
    And thinking about more future 120 skills ... NO THANKS ... not unless they raise the skill cap, to mess up everyones templates for 20 points is not worth the "epeen" factor of legendary no more.
    I'd rather they just expand on the skills as they already exsist. Like they added to lumbering, mining, gardning, cooking and what not, whithout messing up existing templates to the point that skills that need to be together don't even fit anymore.
     
  40. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Oh yes that they have, and quite an important one also !!

    If there were no regular crabs/lobesters, players would catch more of the named ones and, therefore, finish up their orders much faster.

    And, if players finish up their orders much faster, they get scrolls much faster and if they get scrolls much faster, they become all Legendary fishermen easily and in a much shorter time.

    The thing is, that regular fishing can be easily scripted and has been scripted for a long time. So, fishing up large stocks of fish is no big deal for those who script.

    The novelty here is the crabs and lobsters fishing which, apparently cannot be scripted or, at least, not easily.

    Removing regular crabs/lobsters would make crabs/lobsters fishing a joke and, basically, make it a walk in the park for scripters to make it to legendary fisherman.

    No thanks, leave regular crabs and lobsters all there to slow down progress with fishmongers' quests and, thus, reaching of the Legendary fisherman status.

    That is not a big problem, the developers can simply provide a use also for regular crabs and lobsters like in cooking or be able to turn them in to NPCs for a reward, whatever......

    Nonetheless, they must be kept as catchable because they help slowing down progress with the fishmongers' quests. Becoming a legendary fisherman should have no effect on reducing the catching of these for the reasons explained in my previous post above this one.


    Ok, perhaps I was not able to explain myself good enough, I will try again.

    Removing the regular crabs and lobsters will make the named ones required for the fishmongers' order spawn more.

    Why ?

    Because while now out of 10 catches 5 or 6 are regular crabs/lobsters, if they are removed out of 10 catches all 10 will be named ones !!!!

    Do you see now why they should NOT be removed from the game ?

    They help slow down the progress with completing fishmongers' quests !!!

    And this is extremely important as in regards to keeping Legendary fisherman a special and meaningfull conquest.

    I am fine with giving them a use, but they must be kept as the predominant catch when using traps.
    It is the only thing, or the one that mainly slows down progress with fishmongers' quests.
     
  41. Umfufu

    Umfufu Journeyman
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    So basicly you are saying I have to have a much harder time so the scripters do not get Legendary so fast ?
    Do you really think they care if it takes a week longer AFK to get what they want ?

    If this is what you are saying then I must disagree with you ALOT.

    Listen if reaching Legendary would give me an advantage like no longer fishing shoes, or a special fish to fish I think that would be cool.

    But what you are heading to is suffering to gloat over after ?

    Nope ... I like playing, hell I even like a grind ... but the way you are heading is not sounding funny nomore.

    If you want status as Legendary Fisher ... I can tell you this ... it is not the title that will give you this.
    In all my UO carreer I have learned/seen this ...

    Status you earn by how you play ... there can be a gazillion Legendary Smiths and maybe later a gazillion Legendary Fishers.
    Anyone can have a smith, doesn't mean that that person IS a smith, the majority are just poor little mules, logged in every now and then for a few clicks.

    The ones with status ... the ones that stick out ... are the ones that earn it by being dedicated to their professions, the ones who PLAY thier profession.
    Those are the people others notice and remember.
    THAT is what I call status.

    For now fishing is hot ... a hype ... a new toy ... but this will all temper in the not so far future ...
    The ones who stick around after this, THESE are the true fishers, the ones that will earn and have the status you seek.

    As for adjusting the difficulty for everyone due to scripters, that is just plain wrong ... scripter should be dealt with seperaty (but that is a whole different discussion)
     
  42. Gunga_Din

    Gunga_Din Guest

    I could care less if a fisherman NPC sold a 120 PS For 100 gp so we could all just get on with fishing for fun. Next you will want to put a leveling system into UO and turn it 100% into WOW. I didn't come back to UO to grind. If this is the future and its gonna take months to max a skill, then i'll quit now.

    This is what I like about UO, u can get your character made in a month and then just play, get involved with the community or do events. No need to put this much time in for one skill. If it was some other skill , I probably wouldn't be complaining. Fishing just happens to be one skill I enjoy. I can still do the MIB's and net tosses, but I'm still ticked off about the PS's being introduced at all.

    Isn't training to 120 good enough anymore?
     
  43. popps

    popps Always Present
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    No, I am saying that I want "Legendary" to mean something again and I happen to see the fshing skill just a perfect candidate for the job.....

    The fact that scripters cannot do crabs/lobsters traps a go-go is an added bonus.

    I did say it I think in my OP.

    Make reaching Legendary status hard and difficult BUT at the same time make it worthwhile which means, with benefits & bonuses which a Legendary fisherman can enjoy. These includes not fishing up shoes and boots but, I think, it should NOT include not fishing regular crabs and lobsters for the reasons above explained....


    Yes, the ones that stick with fishing, no matter what, are the ones who deserve the Legendary status.

    Therefore, make it so that only those players who really care about fishing will do it.

    By making it hard to get, this leaves out all of the casual fishermen who do not like it enough to bother with the complexity or difficulties of it.

    Sort of like the repairing and firing of cannons and new ships.

    Those who do not enjoy crafting and find it too complex and time consuming can well leave it to crafters who do not mind doing it and buy what they need from them.

    If things are easy to do, everyone will do them. If things are hard to do, only those players who really want to do those activities will do them.

    My main point is doing something to make a "Legendary" skill worth again that title, the fact that traps' fishing creates problems to scripting is an added bonus which, to be maintained, required regular crabs and lonsters to be left part of the fishmongers' quests equation and, I should add, an important one.
     
  44. popps

    popps Always Present
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    We are talking of only 1 skill, fishing, that is not even a vital skill to play the game.

    It is not a combat skill nor imbuing. It is only the fishing skill.

    One can well play the game without getting ever close to fishing at all....

    And for the skills that matter this is very possible.
    The vital skills to play UO won't change a tad. Fishing is merely a side skill.

    Afraid not since the advent of alacrity and SOT scrolls training up skills has become a joke.
     
  45. B_Barracuda

    B_Barracuda Guest

    weren't you the one who recently asked for more space in the backpack or less weight for fish (i don't remember which) in order to make fishing easier?
    :confused:
     
  46. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Ain't it possible already to put fish/crabs/lobsters in a secure at home or in the bank without worrying about the weight ?

    That is, I was asking nothing that did not exist already only, to have it work in the hold besides at home and in the bank......

    In the contrary, asking to remove regular crabs/lobsters would change dramatically the way that fishmonger quests work now and make obtaining fishing powerscrolls way, but way faster.

    Apples and oranges, IMHO.
     
  47. Cami069

    Cami069 Guest

    Popps,

    Some of us won't USE the popular loop programs which are illegal and wouldn't know a script if it slapped us in the face. But you want useless lobsters and crabs to be the majority to create a prestige from gaining 120 fishing. You think the lobster traps aren't done using macros and scripts. You're wrong. Spend time on ANY dock ... oh, YES, there are plenty of people farming the lobsters and crabs using macros and scripts. So, with this in mind, the scripters (or their buddies) will be the only ones who have gotten enough named lobsters and crabs to complete enough quests to get their 120 fishing scrolls. Well, heck yea, we NEED to give them some extra $money making$ possibilities because they deserve it so much more than the poor saps out there who are foolish enough to grind away at the fishing quests without the benefit of scripts! I don't THINK so!

    I'm not asking for plain lobsters and crabs to be eliminated. Just reduced. And I'm asking for the powerscrolls to be available from doing a reasonable amount of quests.

    You want prestige for being a legendary fisher? Reality check ... a legendary skill in a game is nothing to brag about, even IN the game. And it doesn't NEED to be. ALL who PAY their hard earned real life money to play the game and who PAID for the booster should have access to becoming legendary. I favor the scrolls being sold and traded as all the rest of the legendary scrolls can be.
     
  48. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, if that is the case and traps' fishing is being scripted, then either it gets stopped or I have to agree, it makes no sense making it hard when there is players doing it scripting.

    But that's sad to think that scripting always wins and ruins the game for others. Even sadder that after years and years and years it is still here to ruin the game for many and it has not been eradicated from UO (what about the war on cheating in UO ? Is it already over ?).

    It was my understanding, though, that scripting for traps' fishing was not possible or, at least, not easily possible thus reducing the problem.

    Well, I have been complaining about scripting in UO for years so, I do not agree about scripters having yet another opportunity all for themselves (or mostly...).

    Then why not have a NPC sell them to players ?
    Why do players have to "earn" them ?

    I mean, what is the point of "earning them" through work if it is about the fun of using the skill, not getting it ?

    Personally, I think the fun is both in using the skill and in the work done to get it and the greater was the effort, the higher is the satisfaction when the reward (the 120 powerscroll...) comes. Of course, when it also brings benefits.

    So, I stick with my thinking that making it hard to get 120 fishing would be a good idea (not impossible, just hard) "if" this goes along with dealing with those scripting the traps fishing and the benefits to being a 120 fisherman will be comparable with the effort done.

    I guess we are all entitled to our respective different opinion.
     
  49. I buy my fish and crabs now at 2k a fish.

    Who needs crabbing now anyway?


    This is the longest discussion about nothing that I can remember.


    What is the point to all this?

    Im leaving SOSing and going back to fishing this week. Maybe Ill find issues I can relate to.
     
  50. Ralco

    Ralco Guest

    Just wanted to point out that fishing is one of the easiest skills in the game.

    Once one has mastered reading and waiting the fish monger quests are trivial.