1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Metal Armour

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Llewen, Dec 5, 2009.

  1. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    I realize this may well be one of the deadest of all dead horses, but for the first time, in over six total years of playing UO, I actually looked at, and payed attention to, a chart that listed the base resists for all the different types of armour.

    I've long known that metal armour has been given the short shrift in UO, what I didn't realize was that not only was there not much of an advantage to wearing metal armour, there was actually none whatsoever, and plenty of disadvantages that we are all aware of.

    The metal armour types need their base resists increased radically. They are heavier, they aren't generally medable, there are no resist advantages, there simply is no reason to wear most forms of metal armour. They are, for the most part, a complete waste of database space and all the resources, in terms of artwork and coding, that have been spent on them.

    The only thing they are generally good for is unravelling...
     
  2. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    6
    Make it so that if you have at least 4 or 5 metal pieces your resist cap is raised to 80 for each type. :)
     
  3. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    I'd rather have a full plate suit give 8% damage reduction that doesn't stack with swamp-dragon armor, and dragon armor would get 12%.
    ... or we could have both. Both is good.
     
  4. Sir Kenga

    Sir Kenga Guest

    Yeah, i feel same. They should buff metal armor somehow.
     
  5. pgcd

    pgcd Guest

    There actually is, as of now, one reason to use metal instead of leather, and that is Imbuing. Since imbued items can't be POFed, it's nice to be able to repair them to full durability - at the very least, it's pretty nice not to lose durability points on fails - and an ASH +30 will go a long way towards that goal.
    The same reasoning goes for imbue+enhance, which is overly easier when done on smithed items.
     
  6. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,967
    Likes Received:
    5,452
    This is true because you can't put on much of anything to add to your ability to sew...

    Though I will agree about the metal armor with one exception... you should be required to have far more dex/stamina as I would think wearing full plate would reduce your stamina over time if you were running/walking a long distance.

    Also I've said for a very, very long time that bonus's and boosts of somekind need to be given to dragon scale... the whatever bonus to resist is crap when you basically can't do much to make the armor worth anything... granted I have never tried crafting it with a special hammer but why would you??? It's more garbage from the start than anything... And I'm guessing that since it's made from a special material you can't imbue it but perhaps I'm wrong and I should test that idea. But always thought dragon scale should be the best of the best as far as armor goes.... sadly it's the worst of the worst.
     
  7. Which brings us to another problem with crafting & imbuing.

    Imbuing with breakability (ie. non-PoF-able) is supposed to help crafting, making items breakable but EASILY REPLACEABLE.

    Problem is, you can only imbue normal leather/iron. Then enhance with special leather/metal. Which means the item breaks 80% of the time. And with imbuing ingredients still so expensive (eg. 3 million for 10 seeds of renewal), this means imbued items are NOT "easily replaceable".
     
  8. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    200
    I wouldn't be happy with the cap being raised to 80, I'd be happier with the the caps for other kinds of armour being lowered to 60, or even 50. But damage reduction works as well.

    Perhaps as follows:

    70 for samurai plate, elven wood and gargoyle stone (+ the elven bonus)
    68 for regular plate
    65 for chain
    63 for ringmail
    60 for studded and elven hide
    55 for leather
    50 for cloth

    And as indicated, all six pieces would have to be of the appropriate armour type, or better, to allow the cap (with the exception where there are missing pieces in that armour type you can replace it with the nearest equivalent available below that - or the devs could just ensure that every armour type has all six pieces).

    I would also cap individual resists on specific armour types as follows.

    30 for samurai plate, elven wood and gargoyle stone
    28 for regular plate
    25 for chain
    23 for ringmail
    20 for studded and elven hide
    15 for leather
    10 for cloth

    Then you could also adjust the base resists for each type of armour accordingly.

    These caps would also have be be applied retroactively to all the artifacts.

    I think imbuing is fine the way it is. The pieces don't decay too quickly, and relative to that the ingredients aren't that hard to get. Seeds of renewal specifically are a pain, but I don't think they are too difficult to get. You can build absolutely insane suits by combining imbued pieces with artifacts, I wouldn't want to see them become even easier to put together.
     
  9. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    It is so true thata plate helm can be matched by a skullcap. The game has the code for armor sets. Each armor type has it's base number set, that could have one line if all pieces worn of a type bonus.

    Plate armor has its 6 parts and could include the other full faced helms.

    Dragon Scale has needed some love for a while after losing ingot bonuses

    Studded armor has 5 parts and could have the open face helms.

    Leather male/female armor has six and would be place for hats and mask.

    Bone armor is one slot away from 6 parts and due the addition of a rib bone gorget. Deamon bone could have it's own unique bonus. The older demon bone maybe issue, not sure.

    Chain and Ring armor being that of lesser line troops could have bonuses geared toward newer players or archers.

    With the SE armors they would be geared towards the bushido and ninja skills. The SE metal has been discused and should lean to parry combat ignoring the mage armor abuse already in place. The leather set could also add in the two handed dex weapons and the Yumi to have set bonuses. As far as the Ninja Armor, what better example of wearing a set giving Stealth & Ninja skills pumps.

    Elvish armors are already setting themselves apart being race only. The circlet is meddable and would fit in with the leaf armor. Hide armor may have a place under this system and see more use. The wood armor being elf only and the bonuses from rare woods leaves little room for uniqueness.

    Little needs to be done for the gargish armors. The cloth armor has shown its high resist. Having a use for the reward cloth and runics I've done little with the leather armor. The stone armor could of had granite type bonuses like wood got instead of mirroring the ingot types.

    As far as shields I find it hard to give them a place without making a load of two handed weapons even more unused. The Gargish shields may have a place in grouping armor bonus. With plate I could see the heavy shield added. Really what Knight wanted to use a slow twohanded weapon with the already bulky plate.
    With the bone being out there in left field, wood shields look in place with this armor.

    I can see any Code Mage reading this thinking "keep smoking that pipe dream" Just most use the dyes to make miss matched armor look like it belongs together. If not the dyes they now offer a long line of robes to cover our armor with. It would take a full look at how an arty would fit into grouped armor if at all. Grouped armor would give a huge pump to crafting and imbuers. I can see RPGers liking the way grouped armor could add to the flavor of that play style or even the SP type shards.
    As much as I hate to bring it up. There could be added tool crafting slot with grouping armor set choice. Using a runic would spread the mod hits over the set. Making many sets of one type to get a spread of desired mods. This crafting style would leave out the looted and arty options so there be no grouped sets abuse of their bonuses. Crafted sets armor would be blocked from imbuing or lessened on points mod cap.

    Guess like others I hate the ideal of having to use the latest and greatest cookie cutter armor and weapons to compete. The way some threads have been really should be a clue on how the next expansion should head. A new land that runics are mute and as BOD drop is replaced by a leveled random mod deed. A seperate bank box for that land. Passing through a gate from tram/fel to the NewTrel land is on foot, naked,empty pack and petless both ways. Newtrel gate would be near a bank for regearing like Skara and Luna is already. Reds can pass to this new fel rules set area. Only difference is the mainland two screens in is a guardzone as are dungeons in that area. Shores waterways and isles would parade in the pirate realm. Along with skills ushering in the barbarian, cleric and druid. Current mod item loot would exist as will new boss arty that is not over uber. No X-sharding to NewTrel. Runes and their books made there with no way of taking through a gate as for also braclets of binding and petballs NewTrel or a land like this would be viod of the old commons. Current characters would just have an alter ego there and ones created with new skills there would not have their casting ability books on the other side.Sorry scribes, NPCs and quest would offer books and casting scrolls. There would be housing in the form of rentals that act like boats/tithing. Eviction would place the current in place contianers all over the land as picking target chest. Nothing to customize and lost vendors just skate.
    New area like this would be like a game within a game.
     
  10. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Yes, this is topic is as dead as it gets. Metal armor has sucked ever since AoS was introduced (except after SE runic made samurai plate), and nothing has been done about it.
     
  11. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    Further up it says something about samurai plate getting 70 something bonus, it shouldn't because it is medable. So it should be at the bottom of the list like cloth.
     
  12. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    val hammer hiro sode...nuff said.
     
  13. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Messages:
    2,950
    Likes Received:
    231
  14. Miriandel

    Miriandel Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    7
    I strongly disagree, as a professionnal crafter (in game, that is :p)

    Armor types are absolutely perfect as they are, but some 'little things' go unnoticed by many, including the native high physical resist of plate (which allows for better set matching before imbuing), 36 resists instead of 35 for studded leather, native high resists for elven armor, and many more, up to the bloodwood enhancement of imbued woodland armor.

    I can cram more things in plate than in any other dexxer armor, and love it :)
     
  15. Fizzleton

    Fizzleton Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    26
    There once were indeed pros and cons...

    Mages had leather. Archer chain (or ringmail) and (studded) leather. Melees full plate.

    Mages had low resist, melees were suffering from dex and stamina loss.

    I would suggest the following:

    - It is fully acceptable that leather reduces elemental damage types (fire, cold, energy). But you should severely suffer from physical damage.
    - The more iron u wear, the more resistant you become against physical damage. But u get a dex penalty. And it takes away the ability to cast mage, necro, spellweaving and mysticism spells.
    - no mage armor. Iron = no spells except for chivalry and ninjutsu.
    - certain types of helmets make you become immune to critical hits. but u suffer from a hit chance penalty (you can't aim very good behind a close helmet)
     
  16. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    No good then iron will never be used as bushido,necro,myst and even spellweaving is used in a dexter. Not many worth while creatures just do physical damage so thats a waste as is. Besides could use jewelry or forms to offset penelty. So nobody will use iron at all. Int and mana regen is now as important on a warrior as it is a mage.Those times are over. If anything they need to boost iron base ressit without it counting to imbuing that will at least make samurai armor useful cause of the exceptional mage property.
     
  17. Fizzleton

    Fizzleton Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    26
    well, if you wear leather and have only basic physical resist, u simply should be on the move and not try to wrestle a hiryu...

    spellcasters (with the exception of "warrior" spell groups, like chiv, bush and ninja) should avoid any metal armor at all. mana reg should not be punished by metal armor, since warriors need their type of spells.
     
  18. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    One point does not tip the scales. There would have to be 15 per piece to free up one mod slot for something over the resist cap.

    The only reason bloodwood gets used by me for armor is if it is a shield or has 2HPR already for a wierd 4HPR piece that sells. Heartwood is my perfered wood. And even better is the random effect where 2 of the 6 enhancements is desired.

    I liked the OPs intent to do away with the clown suits. There is something wrong with seeing a floopy hatted, sammy Do, bone legged, lector necked, studded armed, plate fisted freak that's holding a barrel lid and LilBoPeep Crook screaming "When is the next sale at Dungeon Walmart?" Hand the clown a robe before I **** on myself laughing.

    There needs to be a new reward deed from BODs that allows an item to be altered in just artwork. Like the Totem of the Spirit to the arwork of a jesters hat or Orc Helm. Some plp may perfer the fool look over just crawled out of the great white north look. A dexer has the Jackles Colar going on in that at last uber balanced suit. Collect enough deeds and it can all be plate artwork. Just med armor to non-med would need mage armor tag and any art altered item would need the imbue/unravel special/blessed item block. Non-med to med type would get a wire sewn idenifier in the mage armor line.
     
  19. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    4
    I like the damage reduction idea, altho it would make sence to only reduce the damage taken from melee or ranged atacks, not spells etc....
     
  20. jfkeach

    jfkeach Guest

    I wear Verite Sammy plate armor. Its medable. Good Resists. It rocks.
     
  21. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    mm yea, +1 resist and... costs the same as 7 barbed kits.
    who could resist?


    Leather base 2 4 3 3 3 = 15
    Barbed: 2 1 2 3 4 = +12
    Horned: 2 3 2 2 2 = +11

    Plate base: 5 3 2 3 2 = 15
    Valorite: 4 0 3 3 3 = +13
    Verite: 3 3 2 3 1 = +12
     
  22. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    2,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    I love this idea of customization.

    10/10
     
  23. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    31
    i think metal armor should get the base of the new gargoyle armor..
     
  24. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    Thanks to AoS,metal is for weapons and leather is for armor.
     
  25. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,240
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think Normal plate should be top of the list 2nd to dragon scale, then samurai being 3rd it comes as mage armor, Everyone would simply just use samurai armor. other than that the Idea is great it would make UO close to what it was.
     
  26. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    It's 5 properties at or very close to 100%. Barbed kits very rarely do that. Almost all val hammer stuff is like this.
     
  27. deadite

    deadite Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend It's My Birthday

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    20
    I've been saying this since 2003 and at least once or twice the devs acknowledged it as a problem.

    I have managed to piece together a decent all 70s suit consisting of metal (except a leather gorget and samurai helm), but I never see other warriors wearing anything but leather or mismatched arties.

    I do miss the days where you could usually identify someone's skill focus based on what kind of armor they were wearing.