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Mining disaster

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Sevin0oo0, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Is this Another example where all players are penalized because of the Dev's inability to control cheaters?

    I went mining again for several hours each of the past few days. I used to really like mining. It's crap now, imo. Looow colored finds, especially upper spawn - I used 30 gargoyle pickaxes, got 1 val ingot. Yeah I know it "cycles", yeah, works like luck. I hit the same color, same spot, 3 days in a row mining until empty(this was gold & agapite, low amts tho) so whatever - this is as intended?

    I'd rather pay a scripter - If you sell ingots(stacks of 1,000 or less -> Non-Luna), lemme know where, either in this thread, or by pm. I really can't see any reason anymore for keeping mining at this point... unless scripted. And too bad you can't sell raw ore by deed for people training the skill
     
  2. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah, I still haven't really accepted that change.
     
  3. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Some days are better than others, but on the whole I've found the areas that I mine (one area for normal strudy tools, and another for garg picks) tend to cycle a decent mix.

    But then I'll freely admit that my style of mining (strip mining with fire beetle in tow, starting at one location and going forward from there) tends to be more favored by the current spawn cycle system than the recall-bounce or boat mining methods.

    I will state that the past few days in one of my spots hasn't been the best even with a prosp tool, but when that's the case, I have other options available.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, mining has it EASY with this system thanks to prosp tools and garg picks allowing each spot to be raised one or two levels, be thankful for that... Lumberjacking has it MUCH MUCH worse due to the lack of such tools and a much worse distribution system.
     
  4. Wormie

    Wormie Guest

    yes mining completely useless doing it by hand , and yes getting 1 val ingot in 3 days is about right. script mining should be better controlled seeing that 90% of the accounts used for it is dummy account and being opened by buddy codes, (dime a dozen). i think certain scripting should be zero tolerance meaning ip banned and no more 24 hr bans.

    also all gms should also delete all the 1,000,000 stone boxes on the every script miners front steps seeing thats almost a red flag that person using the script.


    but ya i feel ya pain.
     
  5. Kas Althume

    Kas Althume Crazed Zealot
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    Aye, i have no problems getting lots of valorite/verite thanks to those tools. I have yet to get a single frostwood since the system changed and i chop alot of wood ..
     
  6. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I hear that! From posts, frostwood doesn't exist anymore, but I can fight for 1.5 hrs and buy 1k boards(Luna price). So guess what I'm gonna do?
    Devs know what they did - They don't LJ or mine so why would They care?
    If they can't fix it, I don't see an altenative except to buy, from, who ever.
    I went and bought the book to mine gems as well - in all that mining, I didn't make my money back(less than a dozen ea. for Most types) Laughable. I didn't do stone, but I'd bet you get more stone than gems
     
  7. gortman

    gortman Sage
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    I just started lumberjacking again a couple months ago and there's no doubt frostwood is by far the rarest wood out there for my GM LJer. I think I've collected about 200 frostwood boards compared to 80,000+ normal boards. Based on the harvested inventory in my bank box, I would rank the boards, in increasing rarity, like this:
    normal
    oak
    ash
    heartwood
    bloodwood
    yew
    frostwood

    It could just be my unique RNG, but that's what the boards tell me.

    My miner has MUCH better success finding the rarer ores than my LJer has finding rare wood types.
     
  8. Delbrie

    Delbrie Lore Keeper
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    you can mine in fel cove and get plenty of colored. However your eles get guard whacked.
     
  9. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Trial/buddy accounts haven't allowed colored ore mining (or colored anything else) for 1-2 years, unless the devs missed a batch of codes somewhere....
     
  10. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    Don't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. For a long time I had a commodity deed box on my steps that I used a both a storage container for archery ammo I sold on vendors. As well as a drop box for my resource gatherers. Because of my laziness and my OCD/pack rat tendencies, I would easily have close to a million stones in one box. I have never run a script program in my life.

    All I'm saying is just because a box is on the steps and weighs some obscene mount, doesn't mean it's a tell-tale sign of a scripter.
     
  11. covert

    covert Journeyman
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    It's pretty sad. Every time I go out mining I see a guy recalling into and out of my spot to hit a couple of ore nodes and then tree spots.

    I got about 50000 iron ingots last week and a grand total of 21 valorite.
     
  12. Random ores and woods was a great thing.

    I would add a skill called item identification. Allow your miner or lumber jack be able to identify what is around them.
     
  13. Bethany_lg

    Bethany_lg Journeyman
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    I wish they would go back to the old system, or some modification of it.
    Shuffle deposits every month or two if we must. It's bad enough mining ore, but trying to find high color granite when people want some furny made is awful.
     
  14. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    Yay ! I am glad someone stated that fact !

    It is really weird when one IS in a valorite vein and actually DOES get valorite ore...why is it our granite in the very same vein of valorite ore, ends up a dud of plain granite rocks ? You would think if all ya get is 20 measly valorite ore, you should at least get 4 granite rocks that are BLUE not PLAIN !!

    Hard enough finding the colors we want in ore, tis even worse for granite, cuz we get stuck with even more plains than ... any of the colors in granite.

    And WHY after all these years, if we can set our pickaxe to mine say just SAND, or just ore... yet granite IS compiled with ORE...be nice to have another option of...mining GRANITE only when not in the mood to harvest nor lug around, more ore !

    Even when someone begs for 2 lg. valorite tables and matching chairs ie say 4chairs or wishes to buy 4 shadow tables medium and matching chairs...we have to say um...........yeh wish me luck !!!!!

    :stir:
     
  15. I hear ya... I mined ore for 2 months trying to get enough green granite to make a large pool table. I got enough to make one corner, and gave up. Every time I would find a nice verite ore spot, it would decide to change on me.
     
  16. Hanna

    Hanna Guest

    Wow, all this time I've been gone and they still catering to scripters with the resource change they did years ago. That was one of the reasons I quit, that their constant catering to pvp, pretty much ruined any reason to pvm.

    All these years and still all the same complaints. Sad, Ultima just can't get it right.

    They put that change in to stop people from getting rare resources too easily, [cough] and to help scripters. Hows, that working for ya UO?
     
  17. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    RNG mining sucks.
     
  18. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    Random ore locations is one of the best things they did for mining. Back in the days of permanent ore locations, every rune library on a shard would have books with ore locations. I spent more time recalling to used up locations, or searching for unknown ore spots then I ever would mining today.

    If anyone is having that much difficulty finding colored ore, you need to learn how to mine. With all the tools available to miners these days it's pretty simple.
     
  19. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Just thought I would point out that in the title of the thread, you miss spelled 'minor'.
     
  20. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Queen Zen, I 100% agree god forbid anyone would want colored stone anything... Talk about hell it's bad enough trying to get colored ore but stone!? OMG epic fail...

    And I'm so fed up with LJing.... anymore I get better stuff from my stumps and ore carts than from actually using skills to get ore and lumber.


    Sad sad thing.

    But I agree with Dermott... when I do mine.... I go strip mining fire beetle and pack llama in tow....
     
  21. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    You can't even aggro anyone in the majority of the places in UO. The only facet where you can freely fight is Felucca. Most of the content introduced centers around things other than PvP.

    I'm sure your existence on the Great Lakes shard is SORELY missed.
     
  22. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    The best way to get rare woods, and ores is to rob merchant ships. Beats the living tar out of Lumberjacking and Mining. Only thing Mining is good for is the little bit of niter you get to work your ship's cannons.

    Shoot, mine saltpeter and sell it to the Alchemist on Sea Market. A little better than 1,000,000 gold per 5,000 saltpeter. Add a ton more gold to the economy. :)
     
  23. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    True, you can't. But all the catering to the whining PvPers to NERF THIS! NERF THAT! THIS IS TO POWERFUL! tends to screw over the PvMers in the extreme. The monsters were set up to require the firepower we had before the appease the crying PvPer's nerfs were done. Now we have monsters that can't be hunted by most people because of it.

    Think, comtemplate the side effects of things, then post.
     
  24. Hanna

    Hanna Guest

    Well, it wasn't the content I was refering too, it was the drop system, they flooded the game with high level items, just to even out pvp. Everything was maxed out. I left before imbuing, but I can't see how that could have helped anything.

    That along with the resource changes including the greater dragons, gave me all the reason I needed to quit. I am not a pvper never wanted to be one. Factions held no interest for me.

    Pvm, running vendors, crafting and resource gathering were my favorite activities. When I left, the community was dead, luna had finally taken over almost all vending. People were quietly quitting left and right. 2-4 idocs everyday, castles were popping up everywhere. Little towns turned into one or two castles. It was just depressing.

    I came here to see if anything had improved, it doesn't seem like it.
     
  25. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    Thread after thread in the professions forums, about people soloing the most powerful creatures in the game, and you are complaining about monsters being too tough?

    Think before you post indeed.
     
  26. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Well my experience is that I can get 10 or 60 val ingots if I'm lucky. I just start out in one area and mine til I find a val spot or a spot I can use the prospector or garg pickaxe to raise it. Then I mark it. And i can come back if I like.

    But after playing a miner for a few hrs, I gotta say it does suck. I did it for a few hours and had 1000 ingots.

    No wonder people pay scripters. And thank god the scripters are around so we have ingots in quantities for sale.

    Would be nice if they found a way to defeat the scripters AND reward ACTUAL players who mine.

    And yes lumberjack is fubar as well, worse than mining imo.
     
  27. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    Do you have any clue what you are talking about???
    High end loot drops, and greater dragons were a result of pvpers whining?

    Greater Dragons, and grinding for arties is a product of Trammel. A visit to any EM event proves this.
     
  28. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    Scripters will always win in gathering resources, and pushing prices into the ground.

    There is one solution to this, but the Devs are either unwilling, or unable to implement it.
     
  29. Bethany_lg

    Bethany_lg Journeyman
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    Or maybe give us a new tool, like a chisel, that just digs up granite. The devs do get a big thumbs up for fixing sand. that was just stupid hard. Maybe a "pretty please" will help me give the masses stone tables.
     
  30. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    You are being rediculous. Most of the PvP nerfs minimally effect PvM, if at all.

    There is no monster that can't be hunted. EA/Mythic shouldn't have to cater to the needs of the inferior players.

    You should follow your own advice.
     
  31. Hanna

    Hanna Guest

    Yes I do, while you weren't here. The flood of high end drop were completely because of pvp whinning. Never said the greater dragons were. The greater dragons were added as a resource change. However, for some unknown reason they thought it would be a great idea to over power the tamers even more and let them tame them.
     
  32. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    I'm not sure having to click on an extra tool or use a special pickaxe is something I'd call "easy." Certainly it has it "easier," but these are not the same concepts.

    But I've come to realize that Mythic is doing a lot of scouring through old code and saying to themselves, "Voila! Here's something we can implement to give the illusion we're doing something."

    Remember... the randomization system was suggested god only knows how many years ago... they even reset the ore spots at one point. But the team then didn't implement the system because of public outcry and the fact that it would completely ruin the system.

    There are no safeguards in place in this system to ensure a region has a certain percentage of valorite, verite, et cetera at minimum. Or if those safeguards ARE in place, they certainly don't function. I've stripmined Delucia more times than I care to think. I preferred it the way it was... I at least knew it wouldn't be a collossal waste of time, which mining generally is now.

    Not saying you're not approaching mining with the right attitude given the current system. Just saying the current system shouldn't be nearly as convoluted as it is.

    And yeah... lumberjacking has it much, much worse.

    Sadly, I doubt it'll change.
     
  33. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Randomized resources is one of the worst changes in UO ever. :( I haven't mined in any seriousness since. Now I just buy it if I need it or use my old stock.
     
  34. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    What do you mean there?

    How you come to the conclusion that artifact drops are for specifically for pvp is beyond me. Artifacts were introduced well after the tram/fel split. The only decent ones dropped in non pvp areas. And it took PvM, or stealing to get them. Until they introduced Faction arties most pvpers I know bought arties from PvM grinders.
     
  35. Hanna

    Hanna Guest

    For the 9+ years you weren't playing
    http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-atlantic/146481-questions-new-old-player.html

    Well, for one thing that was one of EA explanations for it. The other is I never said that artifacts are specificly for pvp. I said they FLOODED the game with them because of pvp whinners.

    And since I quit almost 3 years ago, I would bet, by the time you rejoined the game, they had newer even bigger ones then the ones I am talking about.

    Learn to read
     
  36. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    How is mining colored ore so hard for people? With prospectors tools and gargoyles pickaxes, every ore location can yield at least three types of ore. Except verite locations only 2, and valorite only one.

    Arm your minor with the means to dispatch elementals( I prefer archery using earthy slayer), magery for getting around, runes lined up in seperate pouch for marking, a beetle for smelting, shovels, prospector tools, and gargoyles pickaxes.

    Set macros to use said tools, and macro for last target. Mine with shovel, upgrade location with prospectors and garg pickaxe as desired. Mark rune with location. Doing this till you get about 10-15 locations for desired ore, and begin cycling through the runes until locations change. Killing the elementals will net you about 25 colored ore per kill.
     
  37. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, because nothing is ever so fun as a system designed to make the tedium of mining in real life look like the more exciting of the two options.
     
  38. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I'm not sure having to click on an extra tool or use a special pickaxe is something I'd call "easy."

    Click? Thanks to the EC I have a 3 keystroke mining system: first one targets the vein manually (so a press and a click), second one uses the prosp tool, and then the third one digs three times, smelts ALL the different ore types, then repeats this process 10 times).

    It's quite easy, sure it does take time to mine up the higher end colors (and it SHOULD... that's the whole purpose of RARITY... something the static veins eliminated once everyone had runes to specific veins), but if I'm having a good run, I can keep going in the one area, if not, I can go to another area or do something else for the evening.

    Someone mentioned Fel Cove, which has generally given me good results, but for normal mining, garg pick mining I recommend Western Britain in Fel... away from NPCs but in the guard zone so if you pull an elem you don't want to deal with, you can just guard kill it.
     
  39. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    How is what I posted any more tedious then mining in UO has ever been? It's always been use tool, dig, move to next area, repeat. That is no more tedious then has ever been. In fact with fighting ore elementals, and the ability to have a little control of ore locations, I find it way more interesting then before.
     
  40. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, you're right... Use a tool to increase your mining opportunity and then using a tool is somehow not more work than it was before. And those gargoyle pickaxes, you can have just anyone make them.

    Oh, and I completely forgot that by using prospecting tools and gargish pickaxes that the ore spots don't change.

    You caught me. Random ore spots didn't make mining more tedious. I hallucinated that one.

    How, precisely, does the new system give you the "ability to have a little control of ore locations?"

    I mean, you do remember that gargish pickaxes came out LONG BEFORE the whole random ore spot, right? As did the prospector's tool, right? See, where before if you needed valorite and had done the work to learn your spawn locations you could go out, find a verite or agapite vein and increase your gain of valorite, it's now a complete and total crapshoot on what you're going to get.

    I don't understand how, from a gaming aspect, making a system MORE tedious is a GOOD idea.
     
  41. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The whole point of the Randomization was NOT to make mining "easier" in the first place anyway. It was to return a sense of RARITY to the upper level metal/wood types. Unless you can tell me how to have static spawns and retain the rarity of higher level resources in UO, right now the random shuffling of veins is all we've got.

    Yeah it's not realistic, but they tried realistic back in alpha... it ended up with a world completely stripped barren, thus the respawn system. By the same token, the devs wanted to return the concept of rarity, thus the randomization.

    It is still reasonably easy (if a little more luck-based and time consuming) to get the upper level ores, and unless you're using 60k Verite per day or week (in which case I REALLY wonder what you're doing), you'll generally find yourself not having too much of a problem as long as you're willing to learn an efficient method of mining under the current system.
     
  42. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I did say most. Exotic blends of skills such as Sampires are not that common. :lol:
     
  43. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    I use UOA macros for mining. Switching from one tool macro key to another is not anything close to what I consider work. I must have really strong fingers. :lol:

    To you it may be more tedious. I like it the way it is. Do you only mine for colored ore? I could see it being more tedious in that case.

    I never said it was the new system that gives the ability to have a little control of ore locations. I said it was way more interesting then before. I wasn't clear that I meant before prospector tools, ore elementals, and random spawns. I have only played at the beginning of UO and after those tools and random spawn.

    The main part I remember of the permanent spawn locations was them always being used up by people using libraries full of rune books to colored ore spots. But then again, that was when people actually played UO, and shards were busy.

    I think what's tedious to some, is interesting to others. I do think the plan of making ore more rare with random spawns was a good one. But as with many things in UO, letting scripters farm non stop, resources will never be worth what they should.
     
  44. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    that first part, yeah i remember when they 'said' that. Didn't buy the hype then, and still don't. RARITY? someone posted their finds on woods, essentially ranking rarity. IMO, ores are All pretty equally rare.

    second part,I've never had a problem with static, it Still took work to fill orders or get enough for enhancements, but it wasn't a grind like it is now. Sooo, someone has an order for 11-12 large verite tables w/ chairs(use any color, even 'lower' types like gold/shadow/etc), Just how long a grind is acceptable(in days) to fill this? and what would the cost be? That used to be a 2 evening job(static spots - was still work too).

    I ride my forge, strip mining anywhere I please with full dexxer so ele's are welcome. Not going to Fel just to mine. I didn't used to have to go anywhere, & not gonna start either
     
  45. Percivalgoh

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    Some resources are supposed to be rare. To get them should require lots of time or gold. Scripters are only bad for the game. Two diferent issues. One is creating a dynamic where players want to harvest enough resources to supply all those who wish them and don't want to harvest them and the other is in game cheaters.
     
  46. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    I wasn't implying that the randomization was intended to make the system easier, but it certainly wasn't implemented to fix anything other than scripters. Once again, the average paying customer gets shuffled out of the way with a knee-jerk solution that solved a symptom, not fixed the issue.

    For people playing normally, there was plenty of rarity to the upper level of everything, even with recall books taking you right to where they spawned.

    And, I'd say the ore cart is a step in just the opposite direction. You've got an equal chance of pulling valorite or iron ore, which is far greater.

    The system for mining remains fundamentally flawed. No, I don't have a solution for it at the moment, but certainly I would never have green-lit random resources. Randomization with no control over density is bad. Now, if you wanted to say maybe take a grid of a particular area and say that in each area, X% will be valorite (at minimum) and keep working so that there's both a minimum value and fluctuation, and that you would have to strip mine to see true value out of the system, I might support that. As it stands, you could hit an area for weeks and never see agapite, verite, or valorite... find them... and then they'd be gone your very next visit.

    If you're programming to take out the scripters, it's futile anyway... they'll just continue to script. Making it more difficult on the casual player is NEVER the answer.
     
  47. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    I like the elementals... its one of the best ways to get higher ingots imo. I get many more off the elementals than I do mining. Kinda sad. :eek:

    I made an elemental mostly energy 1h earth elemental slayer, my lil miner holds it in his hand and wh00ps some elemental ass. ore elementals are all considered EE's for triple the dmg.

    The scripters are using free accounts, I don't know how they can nerf mining to disuade them, maybe you can only get 50 mining max, or maybe no colored ore (but then they would still flood iron ingots), who knows. but the free accounts are the key, at least make them pay, and get banned if they are caught.
     
  48. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    Wait a minute. You still can't put stacks of ore in commodity deeds?

    God dammit devs.

    IF IT STACKS IT SHOULD GO INTO A COMMODITY DEED. PERIOD.
     
  49. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    just checked, no, not an item to be used in a commodity deed